Hyatt Ka'anapali Board decides to charge resort fees and parking fees to Guests of Owners

[vacationtime1]

These fees DO HELP the HKB owners as these revenues collected go directly to the bottom line on the financial statement, which in turn helps control increases to the annual maintenance fee.

The bottom line of whose financial statement?

Does anyone know for a fact whether this revenue will belong to the HOA or to the management company? We have seen other instances of parking and valet charges going to the management company, not the owners.

 

[Kal]

The bottom line of whose financial statement?

Does anyone know for a fact whether this revenue will belong to the HOA or to the management company? We have seen other instances of parking and valet charges going to the management company, not the owners.

Ahh yes, looking for evidence of a conspiracy!

 

[vacationtime1]

Ahh yes, looking for evidence of a conspiracy!

No, just seeking an answer to my question -- who will benefit from these new fees?

 

[Kal]

Is that how it works? The board just moves the goalposts with virtually no notice, no input from HOA members and no transparency and members just need to adjust the next year? Is there any limit to any policies board members can implement that discriminates owners and devalues their ownership? It’s amazing to me how quickly people abandon logic because they are under the impression they are acting in their self interest (greed). On second thought, I guess I shouldn’t be surprised to read these kinds of reactions from people who purchased a timeshare from a developer.

"From a developer" I wonder how many "resale buyers" are owners? I for one never purchase from a developer.

 

[MOXJO7282]

This will lead to a rash of sales I believe. There are owners like the OP who likely do it for some profit, but there are many more than rent just to break even or even cover only some of their maintenance because they can't go every year and now this makes it that much harder to rent and cover or offset costs. Add also the big change Redweek just made where they now force every renter to pay a large fee and owners don't get their money until well after fees are due. The ability to rent timeshares for a profit is definitely getting harder but more important its becoming much harder for those that just rent at cost and I believe that will push many to sell.

 

[dioxide45]

This will lead to a rash of sales I believe. There are owners like the OP who likely do it for some profit, but there are many more than rent just to break even or even cover only some of their maintenance because they can't go every year and now this makes it that much harder to rent and cover or offset costs. Add also the big change Redweek just made where they now force every renter to pay a large fee and owners don't get their money until well after fees are due. The ability to rent timeshares for a profit is definitely getting harder but more important its becoming much harder for those that just rent at cost and I believe that will push many to sell.

Will you be there waiting to buy up the units from the distressed sellers?

I think it will be twofold. Some owners may sell. Especially those that were primarily renting. Others will continue to rent and disclose the new fees. Some of them may have to reduce their rental rates but the market will determine where those rates ultimately land.

 

[socaltimeshare]

more important its becoming much harder for those that just rent at cost and I believe that will push many to sell

Some people bought HKB as an “investment” because that is what the sales staff was pushing. They didn’t heed the societal warnings about timeshares not being good investments.

Will you be there waiting to buy up the units from the distressed sellers?

This.

 

[jp10558]

I personally am not a renter and intend to use or trade all my TS every year, or potentially give a trip as a gift to family. What I generally hate are what seem like "junk fees", and these really do. If all the owners respond to this incentive, and only use it themselves - how are the parking and resort fees paid then? Logically the cost doesn't change much - they still have to maintain the parking spaces and the resort amenities. If they can do so with the MFs then there's no justification IMHO to add separate fees. And if they can't, I still don't see how it wouldn't then still force MFs to raise.

On exchanges, I also really dislike the resort fees - it seems to me the owner MF should pay for having the resort, and we're trading a week for a week - or we ought to be IMHO. Even in RCI Extra Vacations or Last Calls, I still think there's no reason but crappy "drip pricing" to not roll those resort fees into the cost for the stay - because they are part of that cost!

Same for hotel site rentals - it should be included in the nightly rate! This is as crazy as adding electricity and water fees to a nights stay - it's just to make it near impossible to shop around and I really dislike it.

 

[MOXJO7282]

Some people bought HKB as an “investment” because that is what the sales staff was pushing. They didn’t heed the societal warnings about timeshares not being good investments.


This.

Very few. Many more are just casual renters, just doing so the years they don't go, and aren't investors as I think your definition seems to suggest as someone who bought multiple weeks with the specific intent of renting for profit. There are very few investors like me.

Will I buy any distressed owners? Not Hyatts but perhaps MOCs. Depends on what hits the market. I still believe that Maui will at some point regain its former grand luster, and the demand will follow so I'm definitely watching this closely for the right inventory. At the same time I've already seen the trend and now only own 7 MOC consecutive fixed weeks, from a high of 24 MOCs just 4 years ago. I'm awaiting to start a ROFR for one I believe fits this category so still adding as well.

 

[vacationtime1]

This will lead to a rash of sales I believe. There are owners like the OP who likely do it for some profit, but there are many more than rent just to break even or even cover only some of their maintenance because they can't go every year and now this makes it that much harder to rent and cover or offset costs. Add also the big change Redweek just made where they now force every renter to pay a large fee and owners don't get their money until well after fees are due. The ability to rent timeshares for a profit is definitely getting harder but more important its becoming much harder for those that just rent at cost and I believe that will push many to sell.

If these new fees lead to even some owners selling, the rule of supply and demand will result in lower selling prices for all HKB units. That doesn't help owners, even owners who don't rent their units.

 

[socaltimeshare]

Many more are just casual renters, just doing so the years they don't go

This is what I also meant. Yes, probably not many multi-week investors like you, and those investors are savvy enough to pivot to this change and probably don't have all their eggs in one basket.

It's the casual renters. The sales staff sold HKB as an investment/opportunity to make money whenever an owner couldn't use their timeshare. Multiple sales pitches I attended were the same. They talked about rising real estate prices in West Maui, had a binder with examples of Maui properties that had appreciated over time, and screenshots of daily rental rates. They stressed you were getting a physical deed of ownership. They talked about how people were buying multiple weeks and how owners could turn a week over to Hyatt to rent on Hyatt's website. Many of these casual investors bought at developer pricing. They probably never read the full details of what they were signing up for.

These casual renters won't like the 50-80% haircut that will be needed to exit their ownership at current market prices. Some of these casual renters are already trying to sell, as the fire decreased demand and inflation raised costs. This latest change will lead to some new listings, but not necessarily lots of new successful resales if the listings aren't priced appropriately.

 

[WaikikiFirst]

looking for evidence of a conspiracy

Not a conspiracy if the HOA does not own the parking lot. Much much stranger things happen, esp at a resort that incl a hotel.
Who owns the parking lot? Do you have any proof the HOA does? or proof that these $s will flow 100% to the HOA?

 

[dioxide45]

Not a conspiracy if the HOA does not own the parking lot. Much much stranger things happen, esp at a resort that incl a hotel.
Who owns the parking lot? Do you have any proof the HOA does? or proof that these $s will flow 100% to the HOA?

Probably won't know until it does or doesn't show up on the financial budget for next year. Does the operating budget for the resort show a charge for parking or parking garage? That doesn't mean they own the lot, but they are certainly paying for the use of the lot. It is possible that the revenue generated from the parking fees just goes to offset the parking lot maintenance fee line item. So you may not clearly see how much revenue it brings in.

 

[WaikikiFirst]

The ability to rent timeshares for a profit is definitely getting harder

It is almost as if all the other players in the ecosystem realized that you can't easily do that WITHOUT THEM, so they grabbed a bigger piece of the pie. Almost?

becoming much harder for those that just rent at cost

I'd love to see links to all the rentals that are truly "at cost", other than maybe a few very last minute ones, which are burdened by the need to get a last-minute flight.
Links? At cost. All fee disclosed. I'm from Missouri

 

[TolmiePeak]

What will drive up maintenance costs is useless lawsuits that only enrich the lawyers filing them.

 

[echino]

I'd love to see links to all the rentals that are truly "at cost", other than maybe a few very last minute ones, which are burdened by the need to get a last-minute flight.
Links? At cost. All fee disclosed. I'm from Missouri

Anything less than $600 per night for a 2br is below cost. There are multiple listings near cost, or below cost. Don't forget the owner also pays for a Redweek listing, $99 Redweek success fee, and Hyatt's reservation and guest certificate fees. Here's the link:

Hyatt Vacation Club at Ka’anapali Beach Timeshare Rentals | RedWeek

Rent directly from Hyatt Vacation Club at Ka’anapali Beach owners, starting at just $329/night. By-owner rates often 25 - 50% lower than the resort's!

www.redweek.com

 

[dioxide45]

Anything less than $600 per night for a 2br is below cost. There are multiple listings near cost, or below cost. Don't forget the owner also pays for a Redweek listing, $99 Redweek success fee, and Hyatt's reservation and guest certificate fees. Here's the link:

Hyatt Vacation Club at Ka’anapali Beach Timeshare Rentals | RedWeek

Rent directly from Hyatt Vacation Club at Ka’anapali Beach owners, starting at just $329/night. By-owner rates often 25 - 50% lower than the resort's!

www.redweek.com

Maintenance fees are $4,200?

 

[echino]

Maintenance fees are $4,200?

Maintenance fees are about $4,100 for a 2br, but Redweek's fees and Hyatt's reservation and guest certificate fees push the total costs for owners to about $4,300. Add the new $600 resort fees payable by the guest, and this tanks resale value close to zero.

 

[socaltimeshare]

Maintenance fees are $4,200?

Yep, for a 2 bedroom, but still 2,200 points in the Hyatt ecosystem, the same as a 2 bedroom at Pinion selling for thousands less and MFs that are over 2k less annually. Some of these sub $600 listings are not necessarily below cost- they are owners at other Hyatt resorts obtaining HKB through club exchange and then renting them out (at that price point it’s still a profit for them). These added costs directly cuts into the profit of those individuals, sending it instead to the association.

 

[dioxide45]

Maintenance fees are about $4,100 for a 2br, but Redweek's fees and Hyatt's reservation and guest certificate fees push the total costs for owners to about $4,300. Add the new $600 resort fees payable by the guest, and this tanks resale value close to zero.

But it doesn't seem like they were a great resort to buy for rental purposes anyway and don't they currently command decent resale prices? I see 2BR annual units listed for around $15K and EOY are around $10K. Certainly people aren't all buying to rent.

 

[socaltimeshare]

But it doesn't seem like they were a great resort to buy for rental purposes anyway and don't they currently command decent resale prices? I see 2BR annual units listed for around $15K and EOY are around $10K. Certainly people aren't all buying to rent.

Before the Lahaina fire, it was pretty common to see these rent in the 7k-10k range and MF were about $1,500 less. Insurance and other costs have gone up significantly, driving the MF up.

 

[dioxide45]

Before the Lahaina fire, it was pretty common to see these rent in the 7k-10k range and MF were about $1,500 less. Insurance and other costs have gone up significantly, driving the MF up.

Annual or EOY? 2BR? You're saying that the maintenance fees tripled since the fires?

 

[WaikikiFirst]

Anything less than $600 per night for a 2br is below cost

I'll second that "Wow" on the Hyatt MF. This is a Hyatt thread, but, I was replying to Moxjo about the discussion of MarriottOC. I've looked at redwk at MOC a few times. Almost everything is 2x the MFs, as I understand the MFs in the Marriott MF posting, of which there is only 1 I think. 2x. On redwk, maybe a few MOCs rent out at "MF cost" each yr, and idk, but I'd bet they rent very last minute.

owner also pays for a Redweek listing, $99 Redweek success fee, and Hyatt's reservation and guest certificate fees

Great point. Those add up, esp the fees with the name-brand TS parents. Is there a high-level status for no Res fees @ Hyatt. There is in HGVC,
but of course renting anything but "Home Wk" is officially denied in HGVC ... which doesn't stop Redwk from having 100 rentals for Lagoon etc in HHV

 

[echino]

Yep, for a 2 bedroom, but still 2,200 points in the Hyatt ecosystem, the same as a 2 bedroom at Pinion selling for thousands less and MFs that are over 2k less annually. Some of these sub $600 listings are not necessarily below cost- they are owners at other Hyatt resorts obtaining HKB through club exchange and then renting them out (at that price point it’s still a profit for them). These added costs directly cuts into the profit of those individuals, sending it instead to the association.

Owners' HRPP reservations at HKB are also subject to the new $600 fees if guest certificates are added, correct?

 

[WaikikiFirst]

But it doesn't seem like they were a great resort to buy for rental purposes anyway

"Trophy" anythings aren't generally priced out as a good thing to buy & rent. I've stayed in that Hyatt. Very nice. Definitely "trophy". I know Kaanapali's shoreline moves around by season & yr, but in my 20 visits to Maui, the beach in front fo that Hyatt was always one of the narrowest sections. No thanks. And yes, every single time I stayed anywhere past Lahaina, I ran at least once to Lahaina, right past the Hyatt's beach.