HRC - Points per MF and resale prices

[Ski-Dad]

I am toying with adding an HRC unit to my portfolio to add some variety. If I proceed, I would be looking for a Pinon Pointe 2 bedroom annual given its lower MF. This would be an easier decision, but for the recent II value downgrade, but this is likely still of interest.

I have read the recommendations regarding buying only Platinum or Diamond for their superior points to MF ratio, but I am questioning the #s. In my mind the savings ought to be enough to cover the additional purchase price amortized over 8 - 10 years without factoring in the time value of $$. Here is my mental process:

Pinon Point 2 bedroom 2024 MF = $1657

MF per point:
Diamond 2200 = $0.75
Platinum 2000 = $0.83
Gold 1880 = $0.88

Comparing the Diamond ratio to the Gold, the Gold unit owner is paying $247 more in MF for their 1880 based on the Diamond Cost of $0.75/point.
Comparing the Platinum ratio to the Gold, the Gold unit owner is paying $97 more in MF for their 1880 based on the Platinum Cost of $0.83/point.

Closing costs aside, the prices I am seeing and reading about seem to be:

Diamond $7-8K
Plat $4-6 K
Gold $2-3K

The MF savings doesn't seem to support the price differentials. When looking at the total cost over 8 to 10 years, the Gold units represent better value.

Am I off base with my estimated purchase prices? What am I missing?

Is there an underlying assumption that these units hold their value; therefore, the differential cost of acquisition does not need to be amortized?

 

[SteveinHNL]

I think your analysis is great. I think diamond weeks at PP go closer to $10K. For me, I went with diamond weeks because the points math works out best for me:

2 diamond weeks = 4400 points

We like to stay at

Hyatt Kaanapali (2200 points)
Hyatt Tahoe/Incline (1400 points)
Hyatt Carmel - 4 midweek nights (800 points)

I have no points wasted, and my annual cost for MFs is $3300 (1650 x 2), which I consider to be a heckuva bargain for the resorts and time I am getting.

To do this with anything other than diamond weeks, it would require me to buy a 3rd week, which would cost $4950/year in MFs (1650 x 3). My cash outlay would be lower with the gold or platinum weeks, but my annual fees would be higher. With 3 gold weeks (5,500 points), it would leave 1,150 points in my account after my intended usage. I could do another 4 nights midweek nights at Carmel (800 points) , but that would leave me 350 orphaned points that wouldn't be easy for me to use.

So while my acquisition cost would be much lower, my annual fees are 50% more, although I do get one extra Carmel mid-week 4 night stay out of the 50% increased MFs.
When I am ready move on from my timeshares, my thinking is that I will be able offload and recoup some or most of my cash outlay from my diamond weeks easier than gold or platinum. I am not as concerned about my cash outlay because I think I will get most of that back on resale at some future point, although whether I do or don't, my goal is to have fun and enjoy vacationing with my wife while we have the health and energy to enjoy these years we have earned together.

But your point is well taken and well thought out.

Aloha,
Steve

 

[Ski-Dad]

The potential for wasting points is noted. I had not thought of that, but I understand there is no capacity to carry points forward or borrow future years. I see how you can easily end up leaving point$ on the table.

 

[travelhacker]

The potential for wasting points is noted. I had not thought of that, but I understand there is no capacity to carry points forward or borrow future years. I see how you can easily end up leaving point$ on the table.

Yes, I came to this conclusion a while ago. Gold is a sweet spot for that reason, here's a thread I posted on where I came to that conclusion:

Check my HRC purchase plan

understood for your points #1. For #2 my concern is I’m going to have to trade most years to get the week after Easter since it’s rather variable. So I’m trying tounderstand the best way to swap for Hyatt too. Primaries would be high sierra or Carmel, possibly Pinon or northstar. The advantage...

tugbbs.com

 

[spec1]

I used a similar analysis to determine that a Hyatt Pinon Pointe Gold unit works best for me. It really depends on how you intend to use the points. You won't be able to book full week diamond/platinum 2 bedrooms. However, if you are happy with 1 bedrooms or part-week stays, then you should do the math to see how many of the 1880 points you can realistically use. I'm still waiting for the transfer of my new unit, but I asked the current owner to make two bookings for me and I ended using up 1,750 points. Not very efficient, but I'll probably be able to do better once I can actually book myself. Even with some unused points, it still works out to be great value.

 

[SteveinHNL]

For us, being able to go to Hyatt Kaanapali was a major part of our decision to own Hyatt. They do have 1BRs available there, but they cost an odd amount of points (1450), and it is unlikely to get an ocean view in a 1BR exchange. The 2BRs cost 2200 points and are exquisite, hence a big part of our rationale for wanting/needing 2200 points. If you buy multiple gold/platinum weeks, you can have enough points to go to Maui, but you have to be sure your weeks are very close in time so they accumulate in your account at the same time.

 

[Kal]

When you add more weeks, you need to carefully look at the specfic new week. The key is how all the weeks work together. You need to have the right amount of points at the time a reservation is confirmed. If the weeks are too scattered, the arithmetic doesn't work when you need it.

 

[Tucsonadventurer]

When you add more weeks, you need to carefully look at the specfic new week. The key is how all the weeks work together. You need to have the right amount of points at the time a reservation is confirmed. If the weeks are too scattered, the arithmetic doesn't work when you need it.

Yes, good advice. We own an Oct week, a June week and a Beach House Jan week. I would have planned better in retrospec but we still make it work.

 

[ScoopKona]

When you add more weeks, you need to carefully look at the specfic new week. The key is how all the weeks work together. You need to have the right amount of points at the time a reservation is confirmed. If the weeks are too scattered, the arithmetic doesn't work when you need it.

I wish most owners could wrap their heads around this.

Unfortunately, most people with multiple weeks own weeks which are months apart. And everything they try to do with combined points never works because the reservation windows are too far apart.

Diamond is still the best bang for the buck -- not gold. I own a gold week and it's fine. But I can't trade into Maui. (Not that I'd want to, it's right over there. [Me, waving my hand in the general direction of Maui.]) A diamond owner can get anything in the HRC* system. And will get the most days of vacation per maintenance fee. For a trader, it typically means an entire extra week of vacations compared to gold.

*I'm going to continue using HRC when describing the legacy, non-Welk, Hyatt system.

 

[spec1]

I wish most owners could wrap their heads around this.

Unfortunately, most people with multiple weeks own weeks which are months apart. And everything they try to do with combined points never works because the reservation windows are too far apart.

I'm still trying to wrap my head around the reservation windows. If I understand correctly, next year's points become available after this year's deeded week, and can be used to book something 12 months in advance.

Suppose I own two gold units, say week 25 and week 50 (I don't). In this scenario I got 1880 points in week 50 of last year, and will be getting 1880 points in week 25 of this year. I can use the week 50 points any time between week 50 of last year and week 50 of this year. Similarly, the week 25 points can be used any time from week 25 this year to week 25 next year.

Suppose I want to book a high-demand diamond destination for week 30 next year using points from both weeks. Wouldn't I just need to make sure that I have at least 2200-1880=320 points leftover from my week 50 unit, and once the new 1880 points from week 25 are deposited, I'm good to go to book a 2200 point unit 12 months out for week 30 next year?

The main risk is that my reservation won't be confirmed by the time my week 50 points expire. However, I'll get new week 50 points this year, so I just need to have a plan on how to use the 320 points from last year's week 50. However, once I use those points, there may be a period of time during which I won't have enough points to make the reservation if availability opens up, so I may miss my reservation. On the other hand, if I believe I'll be able to use these points in LCUP, then I can let them roll over to LCUP, and avoid a gap.

Are there any other timeline-related considerations that are missing in this scenario?

 

[ScoopKona]

Are there any other timeline-related considerations that are missing in this scenario?

No, you have the basics. Most people in that situation want to borrow. But they can't borrow because borrowed points work much like LCUP points.

The best way to own multiple weeks is to own multiple concurrent/consecutive weeks. Worst case, take a long vacation in what you own. Best case, go see the world on easy mode. I know people who own the exact same week, multiple units. These people are only in this for trades. Also easy mode -- all their points come good at once. Spend them all fast and call it a year.

 

[spec1]

No, you have the basics. Most people in that situation want to borrow. But they can't borrow because borrowed points work much like LCUP points.

The main issue in my scenario is that one has to plan very far in advance. However, I get the feeling that in the HRC world you do need to plan far in advance to get the most out of it. It's a quite a change of mindset to go from planning vacations 4-6 months out to 12-18 months out.

 

[ScoopKona]

The main issue in my scenario is that one has to plan very far in advance. However, I get the feeling that in the HRC world you do need to plan far in advance to get the most out of it. It's a quite a change of mindset to go from planning vacations 4-6 months out to 12-18 months out.

I don't plan that far out. But I'm flexible.

Every year, my points come right around the time the maintenance fees are paid. And they're spent shortly thereafter. The past couple years in Carmel aside, we rarely make any internal exchanges. (Only ever stayed in Sedona and Carmel. The rest of the club, I either have better options or no interest.)

It's all Interval, all the time. So I put in requests for the places I want to go. When the first one hits, I start narrowing my time window to a couple weeks before and after the first week. If anything else hits, great -- a two or three week rail vacation. That's SOP here. If not, add-ons come in the form of AirBnBs, the Icelandic Air stopover program, and hotels (if necessary). That way I'm not flying two full days to spend seven. Two for 14 or 21 works better for us.

If you want a specific place for a specific week, I don't recommend any timeshare. This works best with requests of "find me something interesting, the entire summer is wide open."