• The TUGBBS forums are completely free and open to the public and exist as the absolute best place for owners to get help and advice about their timeshares for more than 30 years!

    Join Tens of Thousands of other Owners just like you here to get any and all Timeshare questions answered 24 hours a day!
  • TUG started 31 years ago in October 1993 as a group of regular Timeshare owners just like you!

    Read about our 31st anniversary: Happy 31st Birthday TUG!
  • TUG has a YouTube Channel to produce weekly short informative videos on popular Timeshare topics!

    Free memberships for every 50 subscribers!

    Visit TUG on Youtube!
  • TUG has now saved timeshare owners more than $23,000,000 dollars just by finding us in time to rescind a new Timeshare purchase! A truly incredible milestone!

    Read more here: TUG saves owners more than $23 Million dollars
  • Wish you could meet up with other TUG members? Well look no further as this annual event has been going on for years in Orlando! How to Attend the TUG January Get-Together!
  • Sign up to get the TUG Newsletter for free!

    Tens of thousands of subscribing owners! A weekly recap of the best Timeshare resort reviews and the most popular topics discussed by owners!
  • Our official "end my sales presentation early" T-shirts are available again! Also come with the option for a free membership extension with purchase to offset the cost!

    All T-shirt options here!
  • A few of the most common links here on the forums for newbies and guests!

HRA Phase II 2025 PROPOSED Budget

DanCali

TUG Member
Joined
Sep 17, 2009
Messages
4,651
Reaction score
1,943
Resorts Owned
Vistana, Marriott, DVC
Not final yet, so I didn't post in the MF thread. Will probably just get rubber stamped...

This is insanity. Club dues excluded, the (proposed) total dues (MF + Vat + Atlantis fees) on the bottom line are about 19% higher than 2024 (which were 17% higher than 2023). This is probably in the range of Ritz Carlton Club fees.

(For what it's worth, the actual MF line, excluding VAT and Atlantis fees are about 23% higher).

This resort always had relatively high MFs, but the relatively nice thing about it was that the annual (percentage) increases were among the lowest in the system - in the range of 2.5% annualized over a period of 8-10 years. Right until MVCI took things over... then it all went nuts. 🔩


View attachment 101619


Just posted the actual fees billed in the MF thread.

Looks like the actual increase for the 2BR Deluxe Phase II came in at 8.27%.

Attached 2024 and 2025 Budgets. Bad debt expense went from $0.66 million to $1.68 million, which accounted for about a $95 increase for my unit of the $219 total increase. The rest in the increases totaled $124.

Looks like the main cut relative to the proposed budget was in the reserve fee for the condo association ($3.8 million vs $6.4 million proposed). I guess it's a relief for owners today and possibly kicking the can down the road...
 

Attachments

  • 2024 budget HRA II.pdf
    123.9 KB · Views: 7
  • 2025 budget HRA II.pdf
    137.2 KB · Views: 16
Last edited:

Negma

TUG Member
Joined
Jul 27, 2005
Messages
636
Reaction score
136
Location
California
Resorts Owned
DVC Boardwalk WKV WMH WKORVN SVR Harborside 5* and spoiled
We have a 3 bedroom every other year. Here are the last ten years of MFs including what we owe this year.
1,519.14
1,642.58
1,617.84
1,632.42
1,729.24
1,729.24
1,593.54
1,829.72
1,980.70
2,333.90
2,535.93
 

tschwa2

TUG Review Crew: Veteran
TUG Member
Joined
Dec 19, 2008
Messages
16,238
Reaction score
4,826
Location
Maryland
Resorts Owned
A few in S and VA, a single resort in NC, MD, PA, and UT, plus Jamaica and the Bahamas
Unfortunately, my guess is next year the defaults will more than double again. I see a lot of people on the forums saying that they plan on walking away this year. I see a bunch of verified listings on Redweek for less than the MF's which probably means Staroption rentals (which are against the rules) but Redweek is choosing not to enforce the rules. I see verified listings that are $500 and even $1000 less than MF's. I guess they could be Abound reservations, but I think Abound is still not allowed to rent the Vistana/Westin reservations. Because of the defaults there are enough excess inventory that Vistana is depositing summer and shoulder season reservations, in addition to off season reservations, that never would have been deposited in the past which disincentives ownership with the current level of MF's when one can stay for so much less than owner MF's.
 

ocdb8r

TUG Member
Joined
Jan 10, 2008
Messages
1,656
Reaction score
897
Yeah, this feels like a quickly accelerating death spiral. So sad to see at such an in demmand and "premier" resort with a lot to offer.

What is "Deficit Recovery" in the budget line items? There are separate line items for bad debt and collections...I can't think of what Deficit Recovery could be.

Also, what does the Master Declaration line item include?
 
Last edited:

Hindsite

TUG Member
Joined
Jul 16, 2023
Messages
1,292
Reaction score
974
I guess they could be Abound reservations, but I think Abound is still not allowed to rent the Vistana/Westin reservations.
I've not seen anything to specifically say Abound club points reservations for Sheraton and Westin can't be rented out.
 

dioxide45

TUG Review Crew: Expert
TUG Lifetime Member
Joined
May 20, 2006
Messages
51,271
Reaction score
22,771
Location
NE Florida
Resorts Owned
Marriott Grande Vista
Marriott Harbour Lake
Sheraton Vistana Villages
Club Wyndham CWA
Yeah, this feels like a quickly accelerating death spiral. So sad to see at such an in demmand and "premier" resort with a lot to offer.

What is "Deficit Recovery" in the budget line items? There are separate line items for bad debt and collections...I can't think of what Deficit Recovery could be.

Also, what does the Master Declaration line item include?
Deficit Recovery is to recover from the resort operating over budget in the prior year. So they ran at a deficit in 2024. Didn’t collect enough in maintenance fees to cover operations. They likely took a loan from the management company to cover those losses and now have to pay it back through the Deficit Recovery.
 

dioxide45

TUG Review Crew: Expert
TUG Lifetime Member
Joined
May 20, 2006
Messages
51,271
Reaction score
22,771
Location
NE Florida
Resorts Owned
Marriott Grande Vista
Marriott Harbour Lake
Sheraton Vistana Villages
Club Wyndham CWA
I've not seen anything to specifically say Abound club points reservations for Sheraton and Westin can't be rented out.
The policy is actually about all Abound Club Point reservations. Technically rentals are not permitted. Especially when done commercially. Whatever that means. They just don’t enforce the policy.
 

ocdb8r

TUG Member
Joined
Jan 10, 2008
Messages
1,656
Reaction score
897
Deficit Recovery is to recover from the resort operating over budget in the prior year. So they ran at a deficit in 2024. Didn’t collect enough in maintenance fees to cover operations. They likely took a loan from the management company to cover those losses and now have to pay it back through the Deficit Recovery.
I wonder what drove the deficit? If true one-off's (or properly accounting for in the revised budget), theoretically that could come out for the 2026 budget and help a bit. However, I fear it's likely the deficit was due to higher than budgeted bad debt (which is likely to happen again if more people walk away). Very frustrating to be an owner here.
 
Top