How to not get accused of renting?

[chapjim]

I dunno about this - honestly all of my contracts are tiny…

but no way I am adding my adults sons from everything I have read here on TUG G-d forbid something happens they cannot be forced to inherit what they don’t want or aren’t ready to pay for…

Adding them on to even small contact removes that protection

But only for that one contract. The other contracts are not affected.

 

[Sandi Bo]

But only for that one contract. The other contracts are not affected.

Did anyone see the post the other day -- someone wondering why anyone would pay $51 for 28K at Grand Desert? All closing costs paid by the current owner. Maintenance paid until transfer complete? This might be why?

 

[noreenkate]

But only for that one contract. The other contracts are not affected.

Again- I would not do it for even 1 contract- that’s just me though…

 

[rickandcindy23]

Wyndham has destroyed resale value for me to sell, I didn't acquire anything I own for $0, but they can sell for full price during a lying presentation, when the salespeople are still telling owners they can rent and that resale doesn't get any benefits from Wyndham (and all of the other lies they tell).

Wyndham will take back my contracts, which require me to wait as long as they want to transfer them out of my name, while I pay fees until the transfer occurs? Wyndham's "out" is not free. And they will lie to sell these contracts like they are brand new.

Irony is that they did this after Covid, when everyone wants to travel again.

And Wyndham hasn't helped me get logged into their system. It's been weeks since I had a ticket started on that. The Paymentus system is terrible and has someone else's name on our payment account. How can they mess everything up so badly?

 

[Sandi Bo]

Again- I would not do it for even 1 contract- that’s just me though…

I let my kids make the choice. Two are on a secondary contract. Number 3 (who is actually #1) said 'I want nothing to do with that stuff, I'll play the $99 for a guest certificate'. (I wish you could hear her tone, but you'll just have to imagine).

I've never had to charge her, normally so many of us travel at one time, there are enough owners we don't need GC's. Or I've had comp ones. But I wanted her to make the choice, understanding the financial implications.

 

[ausman]

I dunno about this - honestly all of my contracts are tiny…

but no way I am adding my adults sons from everything I have read here on TUG G-d forbid something happens they cannot be forced to inherit what they don’t want or aren’t ready to pay for…

Adding them on to even small contact removes that protection

I can not think of a way to diplomatically say " Is that right." but how do you know this.?

I've been around Wyndham bulletin boards, forum's, wyndham member websites, TUG etc for 20 years plus. I also recently removed my wife from all our contracts after a serious health scare as I did not want her dealing with Wyndham after I was gone, I also have accepted that viewpoint and thought better that I do so than not.

It has been advised through all those years to get around the reservation limitations to add another name or names to a small contract since Wyndham amalgamates all deeds with a common name among them into the one account with account privilege's for all so named. Yet in all those years I do not recall any real instances of Wyndham holding all account names liable related on those sites.

Legally I can not see how they could do so. They could of course try to enforce the one contract that the additional names appear on but what about the potentially million points or so of other contracts/deeds where those additional names do not appear. How can they legally expect non named individuals to be liable for those.

 

[rickandcindy23]

I got logged in! Our son has never had a log-in for Wyndham, but he does now. I doubt he will use it, but I sure will.

 

[chapjim]

I can not think of a way to diplomatically say " It that right." but how do you know this.?

I've been around Wyndham bulletin boards, forum's, wyndham member websites, TUG etc for 20 years plus. I also recently removed my wife from all our contracts after a serious health scare as I did not want her dealing with Wyndham after I was gone, I also have accepted that viewpoint and thought better that I do so than not.

It has been advised through all those years to get around the reservation limitations to add another name or names to a small contract since Wyndham amalgamates all deeds with a common name among them into the one account with account privilege's for all so named. Yet in all those years I do not recall any real instances of Wyndham holding all account names liable related on those sites.

Legally I can not see how they could do so. They could of course try to enforce the one contract that the additional names appear on but what about the potentially million points or so of other contracts/deeds where those additional names do not appear. How can they legally expect non named individuals to be liable for those.

They can't. When two persons are on a single deed, they are co-owners. Upon the demise of either party, the survivor becomes the sole owner. For a deed with a single owner, upon that person's demise, the property is disposed of according to the will. However, the named beneficiary can refuse to accept the property in question. It is done in writing and is not revocable. In that case, the property passes to the next (contingent) beneficiary, if one is named. If the owner dies without a will (intestate), the property passes according to state laws of intestacy.

 

[ausman]

I'm being disagreeable tonight. Even my wife says I'm in a mood. I generally hate nit picking but here I go picking some nits.

" In Tenancy in Common, the ownership portion passes to the individual's estate at death. In Joint Tenancy, the title of the property passes to the surviving owner. Some states set Joint Tenancy as the default property ownership for married couples, while others use the Tenancy in Common model. "

I'm more familiar with the term tenancy in common with rights of survivor ship than the term joint tenancy.

 

[Eric B]

I'm being disagreeable tonight. Even my wife says I'm in a mood. I generally hate nit picking but here I go picking some nits.

" In Tenancy in Common, the ownership portion passes to the individual's estate at death. In Joint Tenancy, the title of the property passes to the surviving owner. Some states set Joint Tenancy as the default property ownership for married couples, while others use the Tenancy in Common model. "

I'm more familiar with the term tenancy in common with rights of survivor ship than the term joint tenancy.

Actually, Joint Tenancy more often has right of survivorship to pass title to the living joint tenant, though that isn't mandatory in all jurisdictions. Tenancy in common typically doesn't have right of survivorship - that's the case in all jurisdictions I know of. There are other ownership types that exist in some (e.g., community property and tenancy by the entirety). Best to consult a professional in the jurisdiction where the property is located for real details, of course, but the thumbnail sketch from @chapjim does a decent job describing how it works for the most common ownership types for timeshares, joint tenancy with right of survivorship and sole and separate property, though he doesn't name them.

 

[CO skier]

I'm being disagreeable tonight.

You are not being "disagreeable" but only posting what I was also thinking.

When two (or more) persons own a deed, their ownership is defined in the deed; i.e. tenants in common, sole and separate property (but ownership rights depend on the state) are just a couple of examples where "Upon the demise of either party, the survivor becomes the sole owner" would not be the case.

 

[CO skier]

Actually, Joint Tenancy more often has right of survivorship to pass title to the living joint tenant, though that isn't mandatory in all jurisdictions. .

In some jurisdictions, "Joint Tenancy with right of survivorship" is reserved for only married persons.

 

[Jan M.]

I hope @noreenkate and others who may be reading this thread listen to our Tuggers who actually know what they're talking about. Hint, hint, we have some members who are attorneys or are employed in that field.

Unfortunately some people are always quick to spread their uninformed opinions and influence others. Like never buy a timeshare, never put your kids names on your timeshare, your maintenance fees will go up, that resort is in a sketchy area, etc.

 

[noreenkate]

I can not think of a way to diplomatically say " Is that right." but how do you know this.?

is it right? If your question is based on the legality of it I am no expert.-

Is it right for our family? Yes- my kids are just starting out…one in his first apartment with friends, the other still lives at home and in his first year of apprenticeship. Both do not even have credit cards in thier own names yet- one just got his first cell phone plan…That said we are still “helping” them out financially when needed. I am an early retiree, I have all the time in the world to travel…my youngest doesn’t even have a weeks worth vacation time built up yet…

If something happens to me tomorrow neither is in a position yet to take on even the smallest contract maintenance fees ect…

so for now me paying a guest certificate if the should need it ( and Wyndham allows it to go through) is well the safest option for them. Adding them to a contract to save on guest certs is just to risky- Both have already taken trips Wyndham via RCi -deposit and last calls…

For what it’s worth- I had been looking to add on w/DVC…both boys were asked if they wanted to be on the small contract - there answer was NO…so it’s not just a Wyndham thing for us…


Regardless of what Wyndham can or can’t do…Keeping them out of the mix altogether puts distance between them and maintenance fees…

 

[Sandi Bo]

My husband just says either he better die before me or make sure he has the number for certified exit.

 

[Sandi Bo]

My husband just says either he better die before me or make sure he has the number for certified exit.

I will add a little more seriousness to that. I do count on certified exit as an easy out if it comes to that, for someone. As the years have gone by, I am only more confident it will be there for them. I checked all contracts are eligible, I rechecked recently (me, paranoid)?

Wyndham's forte is not helping with inheritance type issues. I don't want my successor trustee needing to ask Wyndham for advice. I would like to get things titled such that things land where they should, and with those who want it. Some do, some don't. My roadblock was working with certified exit / legacy (I think that is what it is called or was called). You have to cancel all reservations and basically freeze your account while the transfer is in progress. We would not be buying or selling, just transferring to qualified owners. I need to get myself in that position (no reservations), I think we'd have to miss a year of usage. Maybe we need to look for a year where we all want to do something non-Wyndham. IMHO, it should be a much simpler process (for qualified family to inherit).

Seriously, for my family, I'll try not to die the year someone has their dream trip to Hawaii planned.

 

[noreenkate]

@Sandi Bo how did you do this?

“checked all contracts are eligible, I rechecked recently (me, paranoid)?”

check the contracts I am really good paranoid already…

 

[Sandi Bo]

@Sandi Bo how did you do this?

“checked all contracts are eligible, I rechecked recently (me, paranoid)?”

check the contracts I am really good paranoid already…

You can call Certified Exit. 866-294-4194 (Mon-Fri 9am-5pm) They were very informative and they will check all contracts to be sure they are eligible. You hear about people's not being eligible, I don't know why. All of mine are (developer and resale). I seem to remember a waiting period for newly acquired resale - not an issue for me so I can't speak to that, but kind of remember maybe a year or two waiting period (and I could be wrong about that). An easy phone call for some peace of mind

I think Tribute is the name of the program now where they'll take them back and give you 2 or 3 years of usage, pretty sure those are for developer only points. I think she was calling the program for resale Outright (so you give it back and pay maintenance until the transfer is complete (4-6 months)). Not terrible if your goal is to be sure not to burden others.

 

[paxsarah]

You hear about people's not being eligible, I don't know why. All of mine are (developer and resale).

The ones I’ve heard of not being accepted tend to be older legacy resorts or fixed weeks. I know when Wyndham took back my Pagosa (Teal Landing) in 2019, they had to double check because while they were accepting Teal Landing they were not accepting all of the Pagosa HOAs. With resale, it doesn’t seem that hard to choose contracts that will be acceptable either by Wyndham or desirable to another resale owner down the line.

 

[Sandi Bo]

The ones I’ve heard of not being accepted tend to be older legacy resorts or fixed weeks. I know when Wyndham took back my Pagosa (Teal Landing) in 2019, they had to double check because while they were accepting Teal Landing they were not accepting all of the Pagosa HOAs. With resale, it doesn’t seem that hard to choose contracts that will be acceptable either by Wyndham or desirable to another resale owner down the line.

Agree... except, I don't think there is a publicized list. You'd need to know to check somewhere (here and FB) to see if people think a contract will qualify (an informal poll). The only way I know for sure, is calling certified exit and checking, and by then it's too late. Unless you could get the party you are purchasing from to check (no likely - and you'd need to know to ask). You can never be sure about anything (it's the Wyndham business model). And it can change tomorrow.

Anybody remember hearing there is a waiting period of a year or two after purchasing resale. And of course, we are talking contracts paid for in full.

 

[paxsarah]

Agree... except, I don't think there is a publicized list. You'd need to know to check somewhere (here and FB) to see if people think a contract will qualify (an informal poll). The only way I know for sure, is calling certified exit and checking, and by then it's too late. Unless you could get the party you are purchasing from to check (no likely - and you'd need to know to ask). You can never be sure about anything (it's the Wyndham business model). And it can change tomorrow.

I simply meant acceptable in a common-sense way, not in a "I've verified that it's currently on the list" kind of way. I own some low-MF contracts. I own some Myrtle Beach contracts which I believe have desirable ARP. I figure between CE taking the vast majority of contracts and the fact that there are other owners out there who value the same things I do (low MFs and/or appealing ARP), I'm in pretty good shape when it comes time to unload some or all of them. If the MFs start rising disproportionately on any of them, it's time for me to be proactive and unload before they become difficult to exit (basically, what I did with my Pagosa 3 years ago).

 

[b2bailey]

Wyndham has destroyed resale value for me to sell, I didn't acquire anything I own for $0, but they can sell for full price during a lying presentation, when the salespeople are still telling owners they can rent and that resale doesn't get any benefits from Wyndham (and all of the other lies they tell).

I'm not a part of the affected group. But, while reading reading here, I couldn't help but remember that EVERY presentation I ever attended made mention of "renting out units to pay maintenance fees". If they are still selling that as a feature -- I'd have to jump up and scream " liar, liar, pants on fire"
To think that owners must now be concerned about gifting to friends and family is outrageous.

 

[lotus921v]

I'm not a part of the affected group. But, while reading reading here, I couldn't help but remember that EVERY presentation I ever attended made mention of "renting out units to pay maintenance fees". If they are still selling that as a feature -- I'd have to jump up and scream " liar, liar, pants on fire"
To think that owners must now be concerned about gifting to friends and family is outrageous.

I don’t intend on renting anything out. It would purely be for family and some close friends, but I’m now paranoid

 

[bnoble]

If they are still selling that as a feature -- I'd have to jump up and scream " liar, liar, pants on fire"

It's not like you couldn't jump/scream that before.

And, because of Extra Holidays, it's not strictly false.

 

[Jan M.]

It's not like you couldn't jump/scream that before.

And, because of Extra Holidays, it's not strictly false.

In 20 plus years there have been notably few times we did a presentation or update with ANY timeshare company or resort that we couldn't have "jumped up and screamed: liar, liar pants on fire!"

Or at least so close to being on fire that their pants were smoking.