How much do you think an HGVC point is worth (in 2024)?

[brp]

I think of it as a forced vacation.

I have never in my life felt forced to take a vacation

Cheers.

 

[Tamaradarann]

The good news is you can probably give away or sell many of the HGVC if they're decent points to MF deeds. At least for aging out I tend to figure you can just default (assuming no loans, and TBH at a certain age, screw the credit score anyway lol) in the last resort.

You are correct in your statement. However, it is not a good picture for the industry that you pay many thousands of dollars for a timeshare but it has little to no worth when you don't want or need it any longer.

 

[Tamaradarann]

I have never in my life felt forced to take a vacation

Cheers.

That is great for you. I always say you need to walk in some ones shoes to know how it feels. If you live to your 90's or more, perhaps you will have different thoughts if you still have timeshares.

 

[GT75]

However, it is not a good picture for the industry that you pay many thousands of dollars for a timeshare but it has little to no worth when you don't want or need it any longer.

True, but at least my HGVC deeds are worth something and should be easy to sell if priced correctly. There are some TS systems with are hard to get rid of your ownership.

 

[jp10558]

You are correct in your statement. However, it is not a good picture for the industry that you pay many thousands of dollars for a timeshare but it has little to no worth when you don't want or need it any longer.

Oh, yea, that's just the general issue with the industry. I've thought for a while that it astounds me how well the sales process works to sell people on them for such high prices. Just about anything else in those price ranges, like cars, cameras etc - people more generally know to look at what they go for used also, both to potentially save money, but to also know what if any residual value there is after X amount of time. I think those of us who got in for resale prices and therefore knew the current resale market before purchase are probably less bothered by the "exit" prices.

 

[brp]

That is great for you. I always say you need to walk in some ones shoes to know how it feels. If you live to your 90's or more, perhaps you will have different thoughts if you still have timeshares.

Well, when we reach the point where vacations will feel forced, i.e. we don't really want to do them, we will no longer have timeshares. It should be something one wants to do, not an obligation. Once it feels forced, no reason to own it.

As for walking in another's shoes - I can't see the reasoning in owning a luxury item that one does not want. I realize that there are cases with dog timeshare brands where it is hard to divest, but that's not really the case with HGVC. And this is an HGVC discussion.

Cheers.

 

[Tamaradarann]

Well, when we reach the point where vacations will feel forced, i.e. we don't really want to do them, we will no longer have timeshares. It should be something one wants to do, not an obligation. Once it feels forced, no reason to own it.

As for walking in another's shoes - I can't see the reasoning in owning a luxury item that one does not want. I realize that there are cases with dog timeshare brands where it is hard to divest, but that's not really the case with HGVC. And this is an HGVC discussion.

Cheers.

I agree with both your statements but some people have reported having a difficult time ridding themselves of HGVC timeshares that they no longer want. Also, there are many other people who own timeshares that they no longer want that are not "dog timeshares" which are extremely difficult to divest.

 

[FilthyForever]

I don't consider it in terms of dollars, I'm more interested in how many nights I can reserve in places I want to go.

Since we live on the West Coast, Hawaii is our go to vacation spot. I never stay in the 2 bedroom week I own, I prefer to book smaller units in gold season to stretch points. I minimize weekends also. For my one week I can get two 12 day stays by booking Monday to a week from the following Friday (only one weekend). Using this strategy I can get a one bedroom unit in Hawaii for $100 a night based on my maintenance fees YMMV.

I do the same strategy.

And a friendly reminder to all of us that starting in 2025, we'll need to do *Sunday* to the following *Thursday* to continue to minimize weekends (I think this is actually a good change for those of us who use the "minimize weekends" strategy - I'd much rather fly out on a Sunday morning than a Monday morning here in the Bay Area)

 

[letsgobobby]

You are correct in your statement. However, it is not a good picture for the industry that you pay many thousands of dollars for a timeshare but it has little to no worth when you don't want or need it any longer.

i don't see the big deal. do you know what a perpetual bond is?

the value is in the annual returns. if you hold it long enough the price you paid becomes insignificant . of course the higher the initial price paid the longer that length of time is.

I figure we've paid about $16k plus about $7k in closing costs for five deeds and the perpetual right to use X points per year for Y MF. For me if I lose all $23k in 20 years it is irrelevant. The value is in the points.

like going to Vegas for F1 in a 2BR center strip for $800.

 

[Tamaradarann]

i don't see the big deal. do you know what a perpetual bond is?

the value is in the annual returns. if you hold it long enough the price you paid becomes insignificant . of course the higher the initial price paid the longer that length of time is.

I figure we've paid about $16k plus about $7k in closing costs for five deeds and the perpetual right to use X points per year for Y MF. For me if I lose all $23k in 20 years it is irrelevant. The value is in the points.

like going to Vegas for F1 in a 2BR center strip for $800.

You bought your timeshares more recently than we did and the secondary market for timeshares has fallen greatly over the last 15 years. We bought our HGVC timeshares resale in the 2006-2008 period and we paid alot more than you did. Of course others bought their timeshares from the developer and paid alot more than we did.

We were able to stay in Hawaii for the entire winter from 2009 to 2020 so we certaiinly are not complaining about not getting our use out of our timeshare purchases. However, it is still not a good picture for an industry that sells the timeshares for many thousands of dollars but they have little to no worth when you no longer want or need it. The worst situation is the companies that are still selling timeshare but are not allowing owners to Deed Back the timeshares for $0. They basically are saying that what they are selling is worth less than nothing!

 

[4TimeAway]

They basically are saying that what they are selling is worth less than nothing!

Worse they sell as "real estate" as an "investment." The terms that are thrown around sound so darm good. Mostly wrong, nearly lies, and always overly positive.

That said, on the resale market a really good deeded week with enough points and a low $/MF ratio really gets me wanting to invest!

I know its not real investment and so far, I'm maybe breakeven on the $$$/fun so the sunk costs are justified. The time spent learning was probably not worth it, but I watched less TV....

 

[GregT]

My TUGging friends have identified many valid and accurate points, and I have only a few additional comments.

In my opinion, the "only" reason to own a timeshare is to secure the reservation. We can debate the financials, but it only matters if the system is flexible enough / you have the patience to utilize it -- that you can get the desired reservation you want.

I own a few systems and HGVC was (still is) the very best at being able to secure the reservation. I am rusty because I've been distracted by other (really fun) adventures, and I hope HGVC hasn't changed that significantly.

But -- and apologies to my beloved Marriotts -- if I could only own a single timeshare system, it would be HGVC. Great system and great properties.

And a final shameless plug for HGVC -- if you are willing to use your cash to buy more space, the Open Season opportunities are (were?) attractive. I don't mind paying the equivalent of MFs (or less) to reserve the very best in the system.

I hope this makes sense -- again I'm rusty on TUG, and someone please tell me if the world has changed!

Best,

Greg

 

[Tamaradarann]

Worse they sell as "real estate" as an "investment." The terms that are thrown around sound so darm good. Mostly wrong, nearly lies, and always overly positive.

That said, on the resale market a really good deeded week with enough points and a low $/MF ratio really gets me wanting to invest!

I know its not real investment and so far, I'm maybe breakeven on the $$$/fun so the sunk costs are justified. The time spent learning was probably not worth it, but I watched less TV....

Well we bought 6 HGVC Timeshares with enough points to vacation in Hawaii for the entire winter from 2009-2020. The system is very flexible and learning to use the system to our advantage staying in smaller units than we purchased our costs were about $50/night to stay in Waikiki.

 

[Tamaradarann]

My TUGging friends have identified many valid and accurate points, and I have only a few additional comments.

In my opinion, the "only" reason to own a timeshare is to secure the reservation. We can debate the financials, but it only matters if the system is flexible enough / you have the patience to utilize it -- that you can get the desired reservation you want.

I own a few systems and HGVC was (still is) the very best at being able to secure the reservation. I am rusty because I've been distracted by other (really fun) adventures, and I hope HGVC hasn't changed that significantly.

But -- and apologies to my beloved Marriotts -- if I could only own a single timeshare system, it would be HGVC. Great system and great properties.

And a final shameless plug for HGVC -- if you are willing to use your cash to buy more space, the Open Season opportunities are (were?) attractive. I don't mind paying the equivalent of MFs (or less) to reserve the very best in the system.

I hope this makes sense -- again I'm rusty on TUG, and someone please tell me if the world has changed!

Best,

Greg

I don't know if the world has changed and we can still do what we did from 2009-2020, stay at the Hilton Hawaiian Village for the entire winter with the points we owned. However, since we live in Waikiki now we don't need to do what we did back then. We have been able to use our points for great vacations to Las Vegas, Hawaii Island, and Maui over the last 3 years with no problem at all.

 

[4TimeAway]

Original post was $/point. That is still an impossible calculation. I’m paying about $0.15/pt and feel it is good enough deal, knowing I can get to $0.10, but don’t feel compelled too. At $0.20/pt, I’d ration my use more. I must admit, I enjoy sharing we have 3 units at Kohala for Spring Break-ish (one at each point level). I should have a good idea of which I prefer with that.

I hope this makes sense -- again I'm rusty on TUG, and someone please tell me if the world has changed!

Dear Greg, you are not Rusty,

Seems about what I've experienced. My only iffy want is access to II. I haven’t convinced myself to spend the extra time and money to confirm, but I always feel like I’m missing something.

That said, I do like GPX and some of those have II or HGVC. I still think HGVC is a value play.

 

[jp10558]

Original post was $/point. That is still an impossible calculation. I’m paying about $0.15/pt and feel it is good enough deal, knowing I can get to $0.10, but don’t feel compelled too. At $0.20/pt, I’d ration my use more. I must admit, I enjoy sharing we have 3 units at Kohala for Spring Break-ish (one at each point level). I should have a good idea of which I prefer with that.


Dear Greg, you are not Rusty,

Seems about what I've experienced. My only iffy want is access to II. I haven’t convinced myself to spend the extra time and money to confirm, but I always feel like I’m missing something.

That said, I do like GPX and some of those have II or HGVC. I still think HGVC is a value play.

I "just" go into II with the FoxRun purchase and registration. I'm pretty neutral on II so far - they certainly have bad resorts (Villa Roma) but I hope to see better one's now that I have a getaway at a Sheraton and a Hyatt over the next 6 months. The website makes RCI's look good IMO. I think the benefit of II is *if* you can book getaways or exchange into Marriott properties, and just another potential pool for options. Is it worth the costs of getting a TS to get access and to have the account? Not entirely sure. I'll let you all know (if I remember to) next week after I've been in a reportedly "nice" II location. I guess for me, most of the RCI locations aren't "bad" at all, even if they're not all super fancy. I probably should get a Craig week someday when I've saved up the purchase price cause I could use more HGVC points.

 

[WaikikiFirst]

determine what kind of value I'd be getting on a yearly basis

I was fine-tuning my next 13 night HGVC vaca last night, and decided to do a few calcs for this thread. background: I'm quite happy with the "value" I get out of my HGVC pts so I haven't walked a res and I haven't tried to keep adding lower MF pts to optimize my "return". I'm vanilla, but I know a bad deal when I see one. So
13 nights in Waikiki in HGVC:
MFs cost $0.16/pt + transaction fees & yrly member fee costs $0.02/pt. Ttl Cost $0.18/pt
Now for Value: (and otomh I am not sure if I am doing apples-apples on taxes? MF # incl HI taxes but can't remember if RW incl taxes and I think hilton.com # does not)
using Redwk as a comp: $0.25/pt Value (prob understated, not trying to juice this)
using hilton.com as a comp: $0.33/pt Value (prob understated, not trying to juice this. taxes?)
Good enough for me, and add convenience of just-use-HGVC to value.

in my 1st post in this thread I guesstimated Value of $0.20-$0.22/pt, but that was actually from a 2023 calc, so for 2025 add 2 yrs of 4% inflation to get $0.23/pt, which is close to the Redwk #.

 

[seaside2022]

1. 7 Nights Elara Platinum 1BR 7680 $2,239.87
2. I stopped at #1. At .10 cents a point that's $760 a week for a room that retails for $2,200.00. But as already mentioned nobody with a TS is paying that for a week vacation in Vegas.
   But Vegas is really only a party town on Friday & Saturday nights. So, take your friends on Fri and Sat when you are only paying 512/1024 points = $51.20/$102.10 for a studio in the gold season that sleeps 4. Go across/down the street to MGM/Ceasars pay $50 resort fee, $20+parking, room rate of $200+, plus taxes a night, you are already in the hole after the resort and parking fee versus $51.20 at Elara. Everybody says Vegas is expensive. Well, it is as Elara is 100k Hilton points a night or $500, most expensive Hilton in Vegas on Sat, but very inexpensive with TS points staying for full price of $51.20. And that .10 is reduced to .05 cents after Hilton's relentless 35% to 75% discounts all summer and $75 food credit (Sedona). Stayed in Tahoe for $20 midweek nights last two months not sure that was even a discounted rate as it is 4th lowest season for some reason? Best part is friends are throwing $100 bills at you to cover the $500 a night and now you just turned $51.20 into $500/$1k for a 900% profit. So, with 8K points you could do 8 weekends getting $8k with the friends and family plan in Vegas or wherever you go. This would cover 80K points worth of maintenance fees for the year. The real value here are friends and their $$$. Oh, and don't forget to get some coffee and snacks at the owner meeting. I thought I heard Hilton recommends 80K points as a minimum. Keep buying you can always get your friends to push you around Vegas in your wheelchair right up until you sign the deed over to them. I mean it just wouldn't be right to charge them so they could continue to have these great weekends, at least not after all the $$$$ they gave you.