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How lucrative is VIP Gold?

Crysis73

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Hi all! Yesterday I bought a package of 300k points annually and a one-time 500k bonus point offer for around $45k.

From the reading I've been doing I see that you can buy points for far cheaper, but I haven't been able to find much discourse on how valuable the VIP perks are. I've got until 6/15/24 to rescind, but I wanted to lean on the fine members of TUG to see whether there's anything I might be missing.
 

Fido Chuckwagon

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You should rescind immediately. You can get the same thing on eBay right now literally for free. Resale points are points the same as your VIP points and the benefits of VIP (upgrades, some points discounts in the ARP) are definitely not worth $45,000.

Here’s an auction for 618,000 points that you can likely win for $1 plus $749 in closing costs, and honestly, that’s more expensive than some other recent ones I’ve seen: https://www.ebay.com/itm/315405349782?itmmeta=01HZYRSAAHP7CWE5VVJHZ73V7Q&hash=item496f9fb396:g:ycIAAOSw1G9kvZfN&itmprp=enc:AQAJAAAA0Ji++DMWwIqbGEjvSfaHOUjl924E6AfThrfbHhg25tPiMnFx9FShqpqAbtOfTw1GCWYBjXIudrL2f8ChzXMSjIHt3HFwLfIcJUQHve2gduWvXgJyf/Pg6t5NgEDWpe+92OD56+AS3Og+FJFa3CieTjj01C1N0CAdKAvXEHIETy6uaJDj0Fmt2CUEN8hF7RkSjm/wa99Yu35HSqxBMUX3hnxkv0vGXHaOLs0FdiDPZT3H87ZLnPRn+tlYoxGVWNLK5T+0hNWs2Et8md0NuiQTiiI=|tkp:Bk9SR6yl5dj_Yw
 

Fido Chuckwagon

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Here’s a 105,000 point CWA contract that just sold for $11.50 with free closing costs: https://www.ebay.com/itm/395440236473?itmmeta=01HZYRWNSQMJJYDFTY7Q1X6HJN&hash=item5c121327b9:g:7FkAAOSwy5ZXC~Ep&itmprp=enc:AQAJAAABAFUOatQ3krtct08/E2Ku2ifVAPKpR+D8hL80HIE5BI9J3hrPt4/gM7hfKtTbkJcb9AE+Prx3mg5ulzbsLrIJP5ui6Pdk83ebEdLllMRz09bgfoH4RwbrqPliuf3KpHCPg7/8CryZELQsxAsRoiGlu+lWqErgnqSfAtYA2n7NhH54sQfgAjDc6tws2DKUGBY8AhfEdE0WAM7XvE7mhI4NyG3pg2JIiSLdIM+enJ9lBUCA7GddqmRqYZ6zGHVtT22lrySu4ZvzN651v8iDF0orT2Bd5IH/6gMftMIa2QzZorDSYTZNcwQGwQtnmpaHzNBD3Yh5+r0H7Y3W5uFMjiyqKSg=|tkp:Bk9SR_jc8tj_Yw

140k points that sold for $1 with free closing costs: https://www.ebay.com/itm/2964349549...LkTPHxKY8rBBRpLMKhB4vCYOPQ|tkp:Bk9SR_rc8tj_Yw

399,000 points that sold for $1 plus $749 closing costs: https://www.ebay.com/itm/315397486261?itmmeta=01HZYRWNSQ2V1C706GR4T0941W&hash=item496f27b6b5:g:ycIAAOSw1G9kvZfN&itmprp=enc:AQAJAAAA4Ev97PcQsdqOVxfS15+XGyOVoFKKXsyWXcGMqeQiH1k5Lrde6FGqtwk+kTkY2OwjTFdi1FSuMthigfe/757CvP+7sRkJCwHnRw0APAIpje+cT1+yxBV/+AQOEUu0aWFmuMRDbMtNgK6reyDehsPQG3T/dg+iLPDq6c/6s2PFdFvROZszY/7emZqx8emAL6PS09uJXb+9X6Hw+EaCcXg5ALmiJtiD5AIv1w7cKAgYCZ+n8uDBw1iUV2SdXsPxI0g2gwEzjyRzXtETiyJrSrVN3vv5HHAZY8wlOf2Y6H/SiYH4|tkp:Bk9SR_jc8tj_Yw

154,000 points that sold for $305 with free closing costs: https://www.ebay.com/itm/315401637318?itmmeta=01HZYRWNSQF4PN0PF6F9YKDS4S&hash=item496f670dc6:g:z-UAAOSwm4dlxnbe&itmprp=enc:AQAJAAAA4ABrAJ/N4kj/i9naenpV7JBBo95Pn8XIvMMB+3SMiEqXkEb84qMGIX2jNu+KUGleWNfifZqbeoAjyQFrC+fzT2XDYTPxl1YVjFyNBApw8ZLL9tIIEtoEjZwFLuLam7G/iEMMarSh299p531CmwIlMAhh4q09FQC0QW9FXFf7MQBtCQ0JesYlLIOKawFkRVPloCV+kIaXkVLGX6v7P3U0/Lo7jTbv3IHKAQOT5cxLskc8wbrZkS4jQfUfrKzNk2Q/zOiv01dVP0VbFrZopcb757U7BblVKg0Dam3azxxGBkrh|tkp:Bk9SR_jc8tj_Yw
 

chapjim

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Not $45,000 lucrative! You'll be VIP Gold until the bonus points have been used, up to two years. Then, you'll revert to VIP Bronze. VIP Bronze benefits aren't that great and are listed on page 310 of the 2023/2024 Member Directory (https://media.wyndhamvo.com/2023-2024-cw-directory/index.html).

Look in your contract for a section about contract rescission and follow the directions precisely. Search this forum for "rescission." There are lots of posts about how to rescind.
 
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Fido Chuckwagon

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Hi all! Yesterday I bought a package of 300k points annually and a one-time 500k bonus point offer for around $45k.

From the reading I've been doing I see that you can buy points for far cheaper, but I haven't been able to find much discourse on how valuable the VIP perks are. I've got until 6/15/24 to rescind, but I wanted to lean on the fine members of TUG to see whether there's anything I might be missing.
Also, your break even point versus buying resale is probably around the same time the sun goes red giant.

If you want to own at Wyndham though, it’s a great system, you should just buy it resale. I’m very happy with my (resale) purchases. All told I’ve probably spent about $3,500 for 6 contracts and 800,000 points. I could have spent less money if I had purchased CWA but I went with slightly more valuable resorts that have lower maintenance fees (which is also something you might want to look into).
 

Crysis73

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Oh wow, didn't expect this level of replies! Why are the resale points so cheap in comparison to developer points?

One of the main things I was interested in was using the bonus points to rent out units in my home club during a few events we have here. I vaguely remember our salesperson mentioning that gold enabled that to a higher degree. If you have resale points, can you still rent out units if you book them for someone else?

Do you also still get access to RCI transfers with resale points?
 

Fido Chuckwagon

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Oh wow, didn't expect this level of replies! Why are the resale points so cheap in comparison to developer points?

One of the main things I was interested in was using the bonus points to rent out units in my home club during a few events we have here. I vaguely remember our salesperson mentioning that gold enabled that to a higher degree. If you have resale points, can you still rent out units if you book them for someone else?

Do you also still get access to RCI transfers with resale points?
The salesperson lied to you. Renting is a dicey proposition under the best of circumstances because of Wyndham’s general anti-renter stance. It’s possible, but I certainly wouldn’t purchase with the idea being that you will be able to rent to cover your costs. Your ability to rent resale points is the same as your ability to rent direct points, you just don’t get those ARp discounts (which are definitely not worth $45,000!, and doubly not worth it given you’ll be Bronze in 2 years). You get the same RCI access with a resale contract as you do with a developer contract.

Trust us, rescind while you can. If for some reason you decide you want developer after all (you won’t), I guarantee those points will still be there for you to purchase, and you can likely get a better developer deal through telesales than at the resort anyway.
 

Crysis73

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The salesperson lied to you. Renting is a dicey proposition under the best of circumstances because of Wyndham’s general anti-renter stance. It’s possible, but I certainly wouldn’t purchase with the idea being that you will be able to rent to cover your costs. Your ability to rent resale points is the same as your ability to rent direct points, you just don’t get those ARp discounts (which are definitely not worth $45,000!, and doubly not worth it given you’ll be Bronze in 2 years). You get the same RCI access with a resale contract as you do with a developer contract.

Trust us, rescind while you can. If for some reason you decide you want developer after all (you won’t), I guarantee those points will still be there for you to purchase, and you can likely get a better developer deal through telesales than at the resort anyway.
Wow..... I guess it's time for me to get that letter ready. Certified mail right?
 

chapjim

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Type of points (developer or resale) has nothing to do with renting. Further, renting is only promoted by Wyndham salespersons trying desperately to make a sale. Wyndham corporate seriously frowns on renting. I am one of many owners who received what amounts to a "cease and desist - or else!" letter from Wyndham.

The reason resale points are so cheap is that a large percentage of the selling price of developer points goes to the salesperson as a commission.

Here is the best deal I've found on eBay: https://www.ebay.com/itm/3354317866...A76FJ5&hash=item4e194ae07a:g:FkIAAOSwy6RmLQcK

A good number of points, very low maintenance fees. The price will be bid up in the next nine days but nowhere near $45,000.
 

Fido Chuckwagon

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Wow..... I guess it's time for me to get that letter ready. Certified mail right?
Yep, certified mail and you are good to go. You won’t regret it.
 

chapjim

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Oh! Good move becoming a member of TUG. It's the best $15 you'll ever spend! Already it has saved you $45,000. Heckuva return, no?
 

Fido Chuckwagon

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Make sure everyone who signed the contract signs the rescission letter.
 

rickandcindy23

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Rescinding is absolutely your best option. You will never regret rescinding. I wish everyone who goes on one of these sales' pitches would find TUG. If everyone rescinded that signed, the salespeople would stop lying.
 

55plus

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Let us know how it feels to save tens of thousands of dollars.
 

chapjim

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Rescinding is absolutely your best option. You will never regret rescinding. I wish everyone who goes on one of these sales' pitches would find TUG. If everyone rescinded that signed, the salespeople would stop lying.

They won't stop lying. It's their only hope!
 

DRIless

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Club Wyndham at The Cottages
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free, you pay closing costs with your choice company and transfer fee to Wyndham
Has priority for all Myrtle Beach properties
 

jacknsara

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Ahhh . . The TUG process at work. 🙂

 
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dioxide45

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Wow..... I guess it's time for me to get that letter ready. Certified mail right?
Certified Mail and a second backup as First Class Mail with Certificate of Mailing. Certified Mail is notoriously slow. More important than the method of delivery is using two forms of delivery.
 

RENTER

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Hi all! Yesterday I bought a package of 300k points annually and a one-time 500k bonus point offer for around $45k.

From the reading I've been doing I see that you can buy points for far cheaper, but I haven't been able to find much discourse on how valuable the VIP perks are. I've got until 6/15/24 to rescind, but I wanted to lean on the fine members of TUG to see whether there's anything I might be missing.
There is no right or wrong answer whether to buy resale or developer. The correct answer is what works for you. There are people here who will argue that buying resale is the correct way to go because it saves you money. They are not lying to you. But there are other people who will tell you they are happy that they bought VIP and that the VIP benefits paid for themselves. They are not lying to you.

In the past it was an easier decision because you could rent to help cover those VIP costs. But Wyndham plays game so you cannot depend on it.

There are owners who have both resale and developer points. They have to choose which points they want to use when making the reservation. They have found that if they switch back and forth between them for the same resort and same dates, they find different rooms available. Sometimes there are no rooms available for resale points and then available rooms for developer points and vice versa.

There are owners who with the discounts and upgrades have a 4 bedrooms presidential unit for as low as $50 a night if they have low maintenance fees.

It is my opinion that if you are going to use for a simple vacation, you are best buying resale. But if you are going to treat it as a second home or use it when you travel for business and you can write it off, then you may be better off buying VIP.

But again the correct answer is what is correct for you.
 

Sandi Bo

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It would be really hard, if not impossible, the way things are working today, for a developer purchase to pay off in the long run. There's a lot of history - from contracts miscoded to special conversion options from weekly contracts to points (no longer available) to how resale points received VIP benefits in an account (not longer happening). Lots of history and options that just aren't there anymore.

There are owners who have both resale and developer points. They have to choose which points they want to use when making the reservation. They have found that if they switch back and forth between them for the same resort and same dates, they find different rooms available. Sometimes there are no rooms available for resale points and then available rooms for developer points and vice versa.
Really? I have a hybrid account (developer and resale) - I don't think I've found different availability based on the type of points I'm using. UNLESS I'm trying to book at a home resort at 15 months or whatever that number is, or using ARP, things that require me to use developer vs resale points. Where, IMO, it's valid that only my developer points allow me to book something.
There are owners who with the discounts and upgrades have a 4 bedrooms presidential unit for as low as $50 a night if they have low maintenance fees.
Upgrades such as these are few and far between these days. They used to be easy peasy, not any more. Mostly not doable anymore due to system changes.

One thing that is key to your decision in purchasing resale, it the maintenance fee. It is likely not necessary to own at the resort you want to stay at. Unless you want a super hard to book place at a specific time of year, you can likely purchase a resale contract at a resort with lower maintenance fees - but stay at the resort of your choice. I own contracts at resorts I have never stayed at because the purchase made sense for me at the time (although I guess I've stayed at most of mine). For example, my father, foolishly (sorry Dad) purchased at Ocean Walk because it was his #1 favorite place. Unless you absolutely wanted Daytona Beach for the Daytona 500 or Bike Week, owning at Ocean Walk is completely unnecessary. And, BTW, you can still likely book those times in the under 10 month mark.

If you really were looking at the savings of a VIP developer contract, I think you need Gold or better PERMANENTLY. You'd need to figure the cost of purchasing 800K on up. Ideally platinum (1.4M). If you look at the cost of purchasing that, you'd turn and run as fast as you could. Bonus points entice you to purchase, enjoy the VIP perks, and in 2 years leave you standing with almost nothing (but the desire to get those benefits back (by purchasing more developer points)).

Does anyone think CWA is a better purchase than a deeded contract? I think CWA maintenance fees have gotten too high to justify a purchase (even resale, even if someone gave it to me, no thanks).
 

Fido Chuckwagon

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Does anyone think CWA is a better purchase than a deeded contract? I think CWA maintenance fees have gotten too high to justify a purchase (even resale, even if someone gave it to me, no thanks).
I think the existence of lower maintenance fee resorts coupled with the ease of booking most things at 10 months makes CWA pretty worthless. However, if all that existed was CWA at current maintenance fee prices, I still think it’d probably be worthwhile to own. Would I accept a free CWA contract right now? No. But if someone else wanted to take it, I don’t necessarily think it’s always a poor decision, in the same way that buying developer right now is almost always going to be a poor decision.
 

Fido Chuckwagon

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There is no right or wrong answer whether to buy resale or developer. The correct answer is what works for you. There are people here who will argue that buying resale is the correct way to go because it saves you money. They are not lying to you. But there are other people who will tell you they are happy that they bought VIP and that the VIP benefits paid for themselves. They are not lying to you.

In the past it was an easier decision because you could rent to help cover those VIP costs. But Wyndham plays game so you cannot depend on it.

There are owners who have both resale and developer points. They have to choose which points they want to use when making the reservation. They have found that if they switch back and forth between them for the same resort and same dates, they find different rooms available. Sometimes there are no rooms available for resale points and then available rooms for developer points and vice versa.

There are owners who with the discounts and upgrades have a 4 bedrooms presidential unit for as low as $50 a night if they have low maintenance fees.

It is my opinion that if you are going to use for a simple vacation, you are best buying resale. But if you are going to treat it as a second home or use it when you travel for business and you can write it off, then you may be better off buying VIP.

But again the correct answer is what is correct for you.
Even if the OP somehow decided that it was financially correct to buy developer, he should still rescind and purchase it through telesales, and should use the PIC strategy. Both would be substantially cheaper. Buying developer at a resort sales pitch is always going to be the wrong way of doing it.
 
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paxsarah

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Even if the OP somehow decided that it was financially correct to buy developer, he should still rescind and purchase it through telesales, and should use the PIC strategy. Both would be substantially cheaper. Buying developer at a resort sales pitch is always going to be the wrong way of doing it.
100% this. I don’t see any realistic path to making VIP break even that doesn’t involve PIC. And I do worry about the stories I’ve heard recently about the length of time it’s been taking to convert PIC deposits into points. I hope it’s not a statement on the health/future of the PIC program and is just random sloppiness (as we’ve seen in other areas, sadly).
 

RunCat

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The reason resale points are so cheap is that a large percentage of the selling price of developer points goes to the salesperson as a commission.
Mostly marketing costs. All of those gifts and perks to get an update or free vacation costs $$.
 
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