How is this allowed?

[geekette]

...
Having two boys I would not stand for it no matter what the consequences.

The world will always have evil people but when good people do not do anything about it is when it is the time to worry.

I guess it's annoying to me that little girls being raped, kidnapped, stoned to death, forced to marry evil people goes on and no peep. But if it happens to boys, well, then, we gotta do something.

Am I to understand that if you had girls, then you might be concerned about the plight of the young females victimized?

 

[pedro47]

In a war zone so much is wrong and very troubling to many soldiers in combat. Abuse of children, females and young males started centuries ago.

 

[am1]

I guess it's annoying to me that little girls being raped, kidnapped, stoned to death, forced to marry evil people goes on and no peep. But if it happens to boys, well, then, we gotta do something.

Am I to understand that if you had girls, then you might be concerned about the plight of the young females victimized?

Lets not make this about me or my thoughts. I think all the stuff you mentioned is wrong but western society cannot be the judge and jury for everything. But in this situation the article is about young boys and I have two. If it is happening on military bases and with allies then they should be able to stop it. Not stopping it is condoning it.

 

[easyrider]

I guess it's annoying to me that little girls being raped, kidnapped, stoned to death, forced to marry evil people goes on and no peep. But if it happens to boys, well, then, we gotta do something.

Am I to understand that if you had girls, then you might be concerned about the plight of the young females victimized?

It is very common for men of this region to marry their brothers young daughter to keep their bloodlines pure. Over here we call it inbreeding.

It is very common for for men in this region to have casual sex with boys or girls who do not belong to a pure bloodline. Over here we call it statutory rape of a minor.

It is very common for men of this region to beat their wife to death. Over here we call it murder.

There was a time that I thought this was confined to a specific religion but have since found out that this is more of a regional thing. Christians and Muslims in this region inbreed to keep their bloodlines pure. I don't think the Christians of this region are allowed to rape but I might be wrong.

So its a regional dealio. Makes me glad that I am an American.

Bill

 

[WinniWoman]

Wait. So they abuse young boys, yet they are against homosexuality?

I heard on TV last night that this is actually an unacceptable practice in this culture, but those in power get away with it. They have a very sexually repressed society and turn to this horrible practice. UGH!

 

[geekette]

... Not stopping it is condoning it.

No, not true. Military personnel follow orders. I seriously doubt they have been ordered to stop everything they find immoral by American standards or even US military standards. I would not support more losses of American troops that would surely follow by interfering. We are not there to approve or disapprove of sexual behavior. If it's gone on for centuries exactly how is a troop of Americans there temporarily going to change things?

 

[ace2000]

No, not true. Military personnel follow orders.

Apparently not all soldiers chose to follow orders, and especially not in this case. If there is any impact at all on this issue (which I believe there will be changes made), then that will be because of the soldiers that had the courage to take a stand, in addition to the public outcry that is currently taking place. Absolutely nothing will happen if the public chooses to just accept this behavior, such as many of the posts have chosen to do on this thread.

Our leaders are going to be forced to answer to this and it will be interesting to see how high up the chain it reaches.

In my mind, the stories and examples mentioned in the article have crossed the line, and it's unacceptable. I'm with the OP here - am1. However, I do understand it's a very complicated issue and it has definitely caused me to pause and think.

 

[am1]

No, not true. Military personnel follow orders. I seriously doubt they have been ordered to stop everything they find immoral by American standards or even US military standards. I would not support more losses of American troops that would surely follow by interfering. We are not there to approve or disapprove of sexual behavior. If it's gone on for centuries exactly how is a troop of Americans there temporarily going to change things?

I guess I meant more the US military as a whole in regards to condoning it. I realize individuals have to make their own choices and there are consequences. Surely someone higher up could be outraged and make the call that it is not to be permitted on US bases.

I do not think American troops should stop everything that is wrong. I do think they should stop this though.

 

[PStreet1]

I can certainly see why Americans cannot interfere with these practices "off base." I have difficulty understanding why it is o.k. for these men to bring boys on base. I'm assuming that American soldiers aren't bringing women on base--why is not o.k. to ban the presence of the boys?

 

[John Cummings]

??
the article describes sexual abuse in Afghanistan, not the US

And that makes it OK? I think not.

 

[easyrider]

And that makes it OK? I think not.

Im with you John. It is definitely not ok [deleted.]
Bill

 

[Brett]

And that makes it OK? I think not.

LOL!
who thinks it's OK?

but why not get the US Army to correct the misogynistic abuses in Saudi Arabia and Iran and then to Pakistan and Bangladesh to straighten those countries out.

It's not just Afghanistan that needs correcting you know

 

[Htoo0]

Anyone here ever spend time in the Philippines while serving our country after WWII but before we closed our bases? The things that were acceptable there and for that matter many other countries apparently would boggle some minds. It certainly wasn't considered rape (unless one having sex with 'consenting' underage children is rape, duh) because everyone knew what was going on and military command made no effort to stop it. You could find the same things in many other countries but we spent so much time in the Philippines for so many years it was an open, well established industry. Don't misunderstand, I didn't approve nor I'm I suggesting such behavior is acceptable. I just find it amazing that so many seem so unaware of what's been going on for so long it no doubt predates history. (Not really amazing because so many lack awareness that nothing much amazes me, but still...)
BTW, I (again to be clear) don't mean to imply it should be accepted, it's the surprised indignation/outrage that such things occur that I find strange.

 

[ace2000]

BTW, I (again to be clear) don't mean to imply it should be accepted, it's the surprised indignation/outrage that such things occur that I find strange.

There's a couple of ways (at the least) to process the story the OP posted. You can shrug it off and say there's plenty of evil in the world and just move on, thinking war is hell, and it's going to happen.

Or perhaps since the activity is occurring on bases that we control and pay for, you might wonder if there is something more we can do. I believe there's more we can do.

 

[Brett]

Or perhaps since the activity is occurring on bases that we control and pay for, you might wonder if there is something more we can do. I believe there's more we can do.

Or maybe read another article where the US military says the reports by this soldier are wrong, it's the Afghan commanders in local villages committing the abuses, not on the military bases.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/22/w...tion-over-afghans-rape-of-boys.html?ref=world

[Deleted.]

 

[ace2000]

Or maybe read another article where the US military says the reports by this soldier are wrong, it's the Afghan commanders in local villages committing the abuses, not on the military bases.

I skimmed the article and I don't see anything in there saying the report by the soldier was wrong. Can you provide a quote please?

 

[SueDonJ]

Moderator Note: A number of comments and responses to those comments have been deleted from this thread. It's a "delicate" (for want of a better word) subject to begin with but adding the democrat/liberal v. republican/conservative slant into the discussion will result in the thread being locked.

 

[SueDonJ]

I skimmed the article and I don't see anything in there saying the report by the soldier was wrong. Can you provide a quote please?

I thought the same thing, am wondering if a different link was meant to be added?

Except, the article does mention that US and Afghani forces "share" bases. I do understand why you think special attention should be given in this particular case but it seems like the question of exactly who is in charge on any military compound or any certain areas of any compound isn't clear? (Clear to us, I mean - I'm sure the hierarchy is clear to those serving in those compounds.)

 

[Brett]

I thought the same thing, am wondering if a different link was meant to be added?

Except, the article does mention in one of the quotes that US and Afghani forces "share" bases. I do understand why you think special attention should be given in this particular case but it seems like the question of exactly who is in charge on any military compound or any certain areas of any compound isn't clear?

just google, plenty of stories, here's one from the Washington Post this morning
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...-to-ignore-sexual-abuse-troops-say-otherwise/

I don't know if this soldier's story deserves special attention (he is appealing his dismissal)


"the top U.S. general in Afghanistan are assuring a disturbed public that no policy of ignoring complaints of sexual assault ever existed, nor was encouraged during the last 14 years.

 

[am1]

Is there a policy on reporting it or stopping it in the moment? Thats what should be discussed. Saying there is no policy preventing soldiers from reporting the issue is sidestepping it.

just google, plenty of stories, here's one from the Washington Post this morning
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...-to-ignore-sexual-abuse-troops-say-otherwise/

I don't know if this soldier's story deserves special attention (he is appealing his dismissal)


"the top U.S. general in Afghanistan are assuring a disturbed public that no policy of ignoring complaints of sexual assault ever existed, nor was encouraged during the last 14 years.

 

[SueDonJ]

just google, plenty of stories, here's one from the Washington Post this morning
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...-to-ignore-sexual-abuse-troops-say-otherwise/

I don't know if this soldier's story deserves special attention (he is appealing his dismissal)


"the top U.S. general in Afghanistan are assuring a disturbed public that no policy of ignoring complaints of sexual assault ever existed, nor was encouraged during the last 14 years.

Of course the commanders will say that there's not a policy to ignore the complaints, but it appears that somewhere along the way they're also leaving service members with the impression that reports to Afghani police/security are fairly useless.

So the question becomes, under what law/doctrine could US forces over there force US law onto Afghani citizens whether they're military or not? IF this is happening where US military has no right to intervene, I don't understand why Americans think our military can control it.

 

[SueDonJ]

Is there a policy on reporting it or stopping it in the moment? Thats what should be discussed. Saying there is no policy preventing soldiers from reporting the issue is sidestepping it.

The "official" policy is that it's an Afghani police/security issue and that there's no directive preventing our service members from making reports to them.

 

[ace2000]

"the top U.S. general in Afghanistan are assuring a disturbed public that no policy of ignoring complaints of sexual assault ever existed, nor was encouraged during the last 14 years.

Ok, so you can't back up your earlier statement which stated that "the US military says the reports by this soldier are wrong" and won't provide any specifics.

I like the comment at the bottom of your source... just because there’s not a written policy doesn’t mean it’s not policy.

 

[ace2000]

Here's some more info...

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articl...the-other-way-when-afghans-rape-children.html

Marines Trained That Rape in Afghanistan Is a ‘Cultural’ Issue

Documents show that U.S. military personnel are discouraged from interfering with brutal pedophiles and pederasts who are U.S. allies.

“There isn't an explicit, top-level policy that requires soldiers to look the other way, but the fact that there have been such extraordinary implications for a group of service members that attempted to stop sex abuse says it all,” Rep. Duncan Hunter, a member of the House Armed Services Committee and a former Marine who served in Iraq and Afghanistan, told The Daily Beast. “Someone with half a brain can look at the circumstances of these cases and make the proper determination that the service member had good reason to step in and do something.”

 

[SueDonJ]

Here's some more info...

“There isn't an explicit, top-level policy that requires soldiers to look the other way, but the fact that there have been such extraordinary implications for a group of service members that attempted to stop sex abuse says it all,” Rep. Duncan Hunter, a member of the House Armed Services Committee and a former Marine who served in Iraq and Afghanistan, told The Daily Beast. “Someone with half a brain can look at the circumstances of these cases and make the proper determination that the service member had good reason to step in and do something.”

I think the "extraordinary implications" for these two soldiers is that it's wrong to beat up an Afghani commander who is supposedly an ally of the US forces. That's not to say that I think the pedophilia practiced by our allies is "okay" or that any of us is willing to ignore it.

Afghani (and Iraqi and others in countries around the world) women and children who report being raped are sometimes re-victimized by the authorities who - we expect - are supposed to be there to protect them. What if the US forces insist on being able to step in regardless of local laws, and our intervention leads to just such an outcome? How is that helpful?