Holy Moly. Marriott is acquiring Starwood [Hotel Business, not Timeshares]

[Quilter]

Absolutely not. Today's announcement was just the announcement of the merger legal agreement. No integration work can even begin until all shareholder and regulatory approvals are received and the transaction closes. That will take months - then months or even years longer to integrate systems as needed. Plus, since this merger involves Marriott International and not Marriott Vacations Worldwide, even then, there will be minimal impact on the Marriott Vacation Worldwide timeshare systems - maybe just some additional Explorer Collection offerings. This is a hotel deal for Marriott, not a timeshare deal.

Thanks, this makes more sense than my wanderings

 

[Quilter]

In my opinion, SPG's best feature is the 25,000 airline miles for 20,000 points, but I actually think the Marriott Rewards program is overall much better than the SPG program. As for keeping both programs, Arne Sorenson said on CNBC this morning that they would be keeping the Starwood brands but merging the loyalty programs.

Yes, the extra 5,000 miles was a nice feature when I utilized it. That's a 25% bonus. But as I found out using Chase cards I could multiply my miles by 2 or 5. The Ultimate Rewards points transfer to Marriott Rewards 1:1.

A Cat 5/120K mile travel package costs 235,000 points. The MR points that I accrue through maintenance fees or spending at resorts applies to the 115K points for the hotel. The 120K points can come from UR points. Therefore, the UR points are gathered through spending that buys miles at a 2x - 5x rate.

 

[icydog]

Yes, the extra 5,000 miles was a nice feature when I utilized it. That's a 25% bonus. But as I found out using Chase cards I could multiply my miles by 2 or 5. The Ultimate Rewards points transfer to Marriott Rewards 1:1.

A Cat 5/120K mile travel package costs 235,000 points. The MR points that I accrue through maintenance fees or spending at resorts applies to the 115K points for the hotel. The 120K points can come from UR points. Therefore, the UR points are gathered through spending that buys miles at a 2x - 5x rate.

HUH!!! What are you saying? I have no idea what you mean.

 

[Quilter]

HUH!!! What are you saying? I have no idea what you mean.

Where does it get confusing? I'll try to clear it up.

 

[dioxide45]

DOH! Of course! Thanks for putting me back on track.

Okay, I found if over here in the Starwood/ILG thread on the Starwood forum. Vistana Signature Experiences will pay Starwood $30M annually plus 2% of vacation ownership interest sales. This is in addition to the $50M that MVW is paying. So annually, Marriott International will get at least $80MM annually from the two timeshare companies for them carrying their trademarks on their properties.

 

[jme]

Starwood's email to owners 11/17/15:

"Dear Owner,
Earlier this week, Starwood Hotels & Resorts (Starwood) announced that they are joining with Marriott International to form the world’s largest hotel company, creating a marriage of the best in innovation and execution.

We want to assure you that Starwood’s previously announced merger of Starwood Vacation Ownership (SVO) and Interval Leisure Group (ILG) will move forward as planned with an expected closing in the second quarter of 2016, creating a stronger, more integrated vacation ownership business. With our plans for accelerated growth and commitment to investing in new Westin® and Sheraton® properties, most notably, The Westin Nanea Ocean Villas in Maui, opening in 2017, the result will be a more robust portfolio of vacation offerings for Owners and Guests.

With the combination of SVO and ILG, we will remain the exclusive provider of vacation ownership for the renowned Westin and Sheraton brands, and you will continue to enjoy your ownership as you always have, including Gold-level status in the industry-leading Starwood Preferred Guest® (SPG) program.

Starwood and Marriott will remain separate companies until the transaction closes, which is expected by mid-year 2016. For now, there is no change to your SPG program status, Starpoints or existing reservations. SPG members will continue to earn Starpoints and elite stay/night credit for stays, and bonus Starpoints for any promotions in which they are currently participating. Members should continue to manage their SPG accounts and book reservations as normal. We will keep you updated as more information becomes available.

We are excited about what the future holds and invite you to click here to view the recent press release.
Best Regards,
Stephen Williams
Stephen G. Williams
Chief Operating Officer"


I'm marginally interested at this point only because as existing Marriott owners, we also own 2 Sheraton Broadway Plantation weeks in Myrtle Beach, purchased RESALE. Because of Starwood ownership via resale, we're not participants in the Starwood Points program, nor wish to be. Probably won't affect us much other than "potential" enhanced opportunities as a Marriott owner and user of the Rewards and DC points via enrolled legacy weeks, MAYBE therefore giving us more hotel destinations from the Starwood system(???). That's my wish anyway. If we benefit also by easier trades Marriott>Starwood or Starwood>Marriott, that'll be great too, but that is highly questionable since the timeshare entities are and will remain separate----maybe a quasi-internal trade benefit, who knows. I'm sure they'll make it interesting, hopefully with some mutual relationship perks.

 

[dioxide45]

I'm marginally interested at this point only because as existing Marriott owners, we also own 2 Sheraton Broadway Plantation weeks in Myrtle Beach, purchased RESALE. Because of Starwood ownership via resale, we're not participants in the Starwood Points program, nor wish to be. Probably won't affect us much other than "potential" enhanced opportunities as a Marriott owner and user of the Rewards and DC points via enrolled legacy weeks, MAYBE therefore giving us more hotel destinations from the Starwood system(???). That's my wish anyway. If we benefit also by easier trades Marriott>Starwood or Starwood>Marriott, that'll be great too, but that is highly questionable since the timeshare entities are and will remain separate----maybe a quasi-internal trade benefit, who knows. I'm sure they'll make it interesting, hopefully with some mutual relationship perks.

I wouldn't expect any additional trade benefits between Marriott and Starwood. I think the only gain that will come out of the Starwood/ILG deal is that we may see more Starwood weeks get deposited in to II. It seems that many of the Starwood bulks have dried up over the past few years. I would still expect each to continue to have their own internal II preferences.

I think Starwood started to lose a little direction. They have I think now three different systems at play. Some resorts are sold as weeks that have an SO value. Then they sell direct SOs in the new phase at the Westin St John. Then now they have their flex program that sounds more like the Marriott DC trust. They aren't keeping things simple. Of course, Marriott has two system, but they are only selling one of them, DC points. Starwood is trying to sell all three programs. Perhaps ILG can right the ship a little.

 

[Wally3433]

Bora Bora just skyrocketed to the top of our list to burn those MR points. Could someone please make the earth shake when those properties come online with the MR program!

 

[SMHarman]

Starwood's email to owners 11/17/15:

"Dear Owner,
Earlier this week, Starwood Hotels & Resorts (Starwood) announced that they are joining with Marriott International to form the world’s largest hotel company, creating a marriage of the best in innovation and execution.

We want to assure you that Starwood’s previously announced merger of Starwood Vacation Ownership (SVO) and Interval Leisure Group (ILG) will move forward as planned with an expected closing in the second quarter of 2016, creating a stronger, more integrated vacation ownership business. With our plans for accelerated growth and commitment to investing in new Westin® and Sheraton® properties, most notably, The Westin Nanea Ocean Villas in Maui, opening in 2017, the result will be a more robust portfolio of vacation offerings for Owners and Guests.

With the combination of SVO and ILG, we will remain the exclusive provider of vacation ownership for the renowned Westin and Sheraton brands, and you will continue to enjoy your ownership as you always have, including Gold-level status in the industry-leading Starwood Preferred Guest® (SPG) program.

Starwood and Marriott will remain separate companies until the transaction closes, which is expected by mid-year 2016. For now, there is no change to your SPG program status, Starpoints or existing reservations. SPG members will continue to earn Starpoints and elite stay/night credit for stays, and bonus Starpoints for any promotions in which they are currently participating. Members should continue to manage their SPG accounts and book reservations as normal. We will keep you updated as more information becomes available.

We are excited about what the future holds and invite you to click here to view the recent press release.
Best Regards,
Stephen Williams
Stephen G. Williams
Chief Operating Officer"


I'm marginally interested at this point only because as existing Marriott owners, we also own 2 Sheraton Broadway Plantation weeks in Myrtle Beach, purchased RESALE. Because of Starwood ownership via resale, we're not participants in the Starwood Points program, nor wish to be. Probably won't affect us much other than "potential" enhanced opportunities as a Marriott owner and user of the Rewards and DC points via enrolled legacy weeks, MAYBE therefore giving us more hotel destinations from the Starwood system(???). That's my wish anyway. If we benefit also by easier trades Marriott>Starwood or Starwood>Marriott, that'll be great too, but that is highly questionable since the timeshare entities are and will remain separate----maybe a quasi-internal trade benefit, who knows. I'm sure they'll make it interesting, hopefully with some mutual relationship perks.

More likely to get Starwood > Hyatt timeshare benefits. Both falling into II ownership.

 

[jme]

More likely to get Starwood > Hyatt timeshare benefits. Both falling into II ownership.

That will be excellent as well. Naturally I've had blinders on in staying within the Marriott system predominantly, so I'm not familiar with the many great Hyatt properties other than seeing photos occasionally. But I never pursued them. Opens up a lot of new and great opportunities to experience more than we have, though. Sweet.



.

 

[thinze3]

Marriott just sent out this email

As a valued member, we're excited to share the news that Marriott International will join together with Starwood Hotels & Resorts to create the world's largest hotel company. For our Marriott Rewards members, this will mean even more choices in even more places, giving you access to 1.1 million rooms across 5,500 hotels in more than 100 countries.

Marriott Rewards and Starwood Preferred Guest (SPG) are among the industry's most-awarded loyalty programs, and they should be even stronger when the companies merge. Our programs and brands complement each other well, and we intend to draw upon the best of both programs to provide more value for our guests and hotels.

This is the start of a long journey as we combine our two companies. For now, we remain separate, and there is no change to your Marriott Rewards program status, your Rewards points or your existing reservations. You will continue to earn Rewards points and elite stay/night credit for your stays, and bonus points for any promotions in which are you are participating. There is no change to how you manage your Rewards account or book reservations.

Over the coming months, as we have more to share we'll be sure to reach out to you by e-mail, at marriottrewards.com and via twitter (@MarriottRewards). In the meantime, we remain at your service wherever you need us—whether in our hotels, at marriottrewards.com, the Marriott mobile app, or via our Customer Care Centers.

All my best,


Arne Sorenson
President and Chief Executive Officer
Marriott International, Inc.

 

[Quilter]

I would like it if MR adopted spg's method for tracking point credits and debits in the accounts online.

I had a talk with MR today about a couple travel packages in both mine and hubby's accounts. Earlier this month I had changed a reservation from my account to his and the MR rep canceled the award instead of "detaching" the award. When it's canceled only a portion of the points goes back into your account. The portion is only good for about 1 night's stay. When it's detached a credit for the whole 5 nights goes back into your account. It's hard to decipher what's going on when travel packages are deleted or credited to accounts. Even the phone reps have trouble reading the activity.

The same thing had happened in my husband's account. The first MR rep I spoke with today said the award was canceled, only a portion was returned and so sorry, but there was nothing to be done to rectify the mistake. I told him there was and asked for a supervisor. I was glad when the supervisor told me "let me fix this mess and then we'll fix your husband's account".

 

[icydog]

Will MVCI reservations still count towards MR elite levels post Starwood?

I get to be platinum elite pretty much every year due to my timeshare stays at Marriott Timeshare Resorts.

I wonder if this benefit will go away when the Merger happens. I don't believe that Starwood offers it's owners the same benefit. Or do they?

In any case, the Marriott Rewards Elite Level--earned with timeshare stays-- is very important to me!!

 

[icydog]

I would like it if MR adopted spg's method for tracking point credits and debits in the accounts online.

I had a talk with MR today about a couple travel packages in both mine and hubby's accounts. Earlier this month I had changed a reservation from my account to his and the MR rep canceled the award instead of "detaching" the award. When it's canceled only a portion of the points goes back into your account. The portion is only good for about 1 night's stay. When it's detached a credit for the whole 5 nights goes back into your account. It's hard to decipher what's going on when travel packages are deleted or credited to accounts. Even the phone reps have trouble reading the activity.

The same thing had happened in my husband's account. The first MR rep I spoke with today said the award was canceled, only a portion was returned and so sorry, but there was nothing to be done to rectify the mistake. I told him there was and asked for a supervisor. I was glad when the supervisor told me "let me fix this mess and then we'll fix your husband's account".

A very similar thing happened to me. It was only after I spoke with a manager (not a supervisor) that I got the mess in my account sorted out. It took an hour but she got it done.

 

[Quilter]

I get to be platinum elite pretty much every year due to my timeshare stays at Marriott Timeshare Resorts.

I wonder if this benefit will go away when the Merger happens. I don't believe that Starwood offers it's owners the same benefit. Or do they?

In any case, the Marriott Rewards Elite Level--earned with timeshare stays-- is very important to me!!

It is with me too!

I've scanned both Marriott and spg forums on flyertalk. Seems members want to keep what they think is best about their favorite program. The email notices we have received have said:

"Our programs and brands complement each other well, and we intend to draw upon the best of both programs to provide more value for our guests and hotels. "

We can only hope that when they're done it will be the best of both programs. Since 1998 they have heard what customers value most about their programs: http://freddieawards.com/2015-annual-freddie-awards-27th/

 

[Werner Weiss]

It is with me too!

I've scanned both Marriott and spg forums on flyertalk. Seems members want to keep what they think is best about their favorite program. The email notices we have received have said:

"Our programs and brands complement each other well, and we intend to draw upon the best of both programs to provide more value for our guests and hotels. "

We can only hope that when they're done it will be the best of both programs. Since 1998 they have heard what customers value most about their programs: http://freddieawards.com/2015-annual-freddie-awards-27th/

Nobody knows yet what the combined program will be like. However...

Marriott Rewards is the larger program. Marriott is the acquiring company. And, chances are, Marriott Rewards will be the surviving program and will look much as it does now.

Marriott will want to inherit the loyalty of current SPG members. That customer base is part of what Marriott is buying, along with Starwood's brands, franchise agreements, management contracts, and other assets. At the same time, Marriott needs to avoid alienating MR members.

I would expect a period of at least a year during which SPG members can redeem under the old SPG structure.

MR points and SPG points are a different currency. It takes far more hotel spending to accrue the same number SPG points as MR points. However, Marriott's hotel redemptions typically require two to three times as many points as Starwood's hotel redemptions for similar hotels. So SPG members can reasonably expect a multiplier to be applied to their point balances before they are transferred over.

It remains to be seen if SPG members with lifetime elite status will have that status transferred over on a Gold-for-Gold and Platinum-for-Platinum basis. In any case, I would expect program-to-date Starwood nights to count toward toward Marriott lifetime status. I think we'll see a lot of newly minted Marriott Rewards lifetime elite members coming out of this merger.

 

[JIMinNC]

Nobody knows yet what the combined program will be like. However...

Marriott Rewards is the larger program. Marriott is the acquiring company. And, chances are, Marriott Rewards will be the surviving program and will look much as it does now.

It just dawned on me that with a larger Marriott Rewards program, the sales and marketing folks at Marriott Vacations Worldwide will get a larger pool of Rewards members to solicit for tours/presentations, etc. They must be literally salivating at the prospect of fresh new meat...

 

[Werner Weiss]

It just dawned on me that with a larger Marriott Rewards program, the sales and marketing folks at Marriott Vacations Worldwide will get a larger pool of Rewards members to solicit for tours/presentations, etc. They must be literally salivating at the prospect of fresh new meat...

Good point. But that there's more...

Just as Marriott Vacations Worldwide was spun off from Marriott International, Starwood Vacation Network (Interval Leisure Group) was spun off from Starwood Hotels & Resorts Worldwide, Inc.

Starwood Vacation Network licenses the Sheraton and Westin brands from its former owner, just as Marriott Vacations Worldwide licenses the Marriott and Ritz-Carlton brands from its former owner.

After the Marriott-Starwood merger is complete, Sheraton and Westin will be in he same loyalty program as Marriott (and essentially Ritz-Carlton too).

So will the sales and marketing folks at Starwood Vacation Network (or whatever its new name might eventually be) also "will get a larger pool of Rewards members to solicit for tours/presentations, etc."? Are they also salivating?

 

[jimf41]

So will the sales and marketing folks at Starwood Vacation Network (or whatever its new name might eventually be) also "will get a larger pool of Rewards members to solicit for tours/presentations, etc."? Are they also salivating?

No, I don't think so. Marriott hotels feed prospects to MVC. In the future that will include all the folks staying at former Starwood properties. The Starwood TS folks will have no associated hotel group to farm new customers from.

 

[SueDonJ]

Good point. But that there's more...

Just as Marriott Vacations Worldwide was spun off from Marriott International, Starwood Vacation Network (Interval Leisure Group) was spun off from Starwood Hotels & Resorts Worldwide, Inc.

Starwood Vacation Network licenses the Sheraton and Westin brands from its former owner, just as Marriott Vacations Worldwide licenses the Marriott and Ritz-Carlton brands from its former owner.

After the Marriott-Starwood merger is complete, Sheraton and Westin will be in he same loyalty program as Marriott (and essentially Ritz-Carlton too).

So will the sales and marketing folks at Starwood Vacation Network (or whatever its new name might eventually be) also "will get a larger pool of Rewards members to solicit for tours/presentations, etc."? Are they also salivating?

Has the re-naming of Starwood's timeshare division to Vistana Signature Experiences been legally completed? It was announced early this year with an expected completion date of 4th QTR '15 but I can't find anything that says it's a done deal. Following that, the merger of the ILG subsidiary with VSE isn't expected to be completed until 2nd QTR '16, and, the press releases say that the MI acquisition of Starwood's hotel business is contingent on the ILG/VSE merger.

I'm so confused reading all these TUG posts because it's still unclear which transactions have been completed, and there hasn't been much talk at all about possible impediments in any of the processes. It seems there are still too many moving parts to be able to get into minute details of how the respective customer loyalty programs will work, especially as they'll affiliate with the timeshare companies.

 

[JIMinNC]

So will the sales and marketing folks at Starwood Vacation Network (or whatever its new name might eventually be) also "will get a larger pool of Rewards members to solicit for tours/presentations, etc."? Are they also salivating?

No, I don't think so. Marriott hotels feed prospects to MVC. In the future that will include all the folks staying at former Starwood properties. The Starwood TS folks will have no associated hotel group to farm new customers from.

I think it depends upon whether Marriott International shares the Marriott Rewards database with Vistana Signature Experiences. They clearly have a marketing agreement in place to allow Marriott Vacations Worldwide to mine the Rewards database. Will they have a similar agreement with Vistana? I would think the spinoff of Vistana from Starwood would logically have allowed Vistana to mine the SPG program. So when SPG is merged into Marriott Rewards it would be logical to assume that any such marketing agreement would transfer to the combined program, giving Vistana the right to mine Rewards as well.

To jimf41, the former Starwood timeshare folks (soon to be called Vistana Signature Experiences) will have an associated hotel group - Marriott International - which will own the Sheraton and Westin brands just like they now own the Marriott, Courtyard, Ritz Carlton, AC, Gaylord, etc brands. Go to Marriott.com and look at the bottom of the home page - Sheraton, Westin, W, Aloft, etc will just be added to that already long list.

So...since Marriott Vacations Worldwide (a totally separate company from Marriott International) licenses the Marriott Vacation Club brand from Marriott International, and since Vistana Signature Experiences (also a totally separate company from Marriott International) will be licensing the Westin and Sheraton brands from that same Marriott International, once the two loyalty programs are combined, I would expect Vistana owners to get Marriott Rewards benefits for their timeshare stays (nights credit, spending, etc) just like Marriott Vacations Worldwide owners get Rewards benefits for their timeshare stays. As such, there would be no reason not to share the Marriott Rewards database with both Marriott Vacations Worldwide and Vistana Signature Experiences. I assume that both companies would have to pay Marriott International for access to that database (unless some pre-existing agreement gives the two timeshare spinoffs free access to the loyalty programs associated with their licensed brands).

Just theorizing, of course, but I think you have to think of Marriott Vacations Worldwide and Vistana Signature Experiences as two very similar companies - both operate timeshare systems, both will be licensing their branding from Marriott International, and both will likely be using the same Marriott Rewards loyalty program for their owners. Both of their relationships with Marriott International may wind up being very similar.

 

[Quilter]

Please see comments in red.

...

Marriott Rewards is the larger program. Marriott is the acquiring company. And, chances are, Marriott Rewards will be the surviving program and will look much as it does now. I hope. . .

MR points and SPG points are a different currency. It takes far more hotel spending to accrue the same number SPG points as MR points. However, Marriott's hotel redemptions typically require two to three times as many points as Starwood's hotel redemptions for similar hotels. So SPG members can reasonably expect a multiplier to be applied to their point balances before they are transferred over.

Do you know of another merger where the acquired members received a multiplier?

Yes, SPG points were/are accrued more from hotel spend. They are also transferrable 1:1 (and 1:1.25) to airlines until the program changes. Any member can transfer them before the change to maintain this coveted value.

I looked at 2 comparable hotels. For 12/22/2015 in Phoenix the Renaissance Phoenix Downtown 20K points or $139 and the Westin Phoenix Downtown 10K points or $179. Both Cat. 4. So your MR redemption being 2X that of spg's holds true for this comparison. BUT, for the exchange of points to miles the spg points have high value 1:1 for many airlines. MR transfer to Aeromexico, Aeroplan (Air Canada), Alaska, American Airlines, British Airways, Copa Airlines, Delta Air Lines, Frontier Airlines, GOL/Varig, Hawaiian Airlines, Iberia Airlines, Virgin Atlantic can be 2.8X - 5X
REWARD POINTS DETAILS
2,000 Miles or Avios 10,000
5,000 Miles or Avios 20,000
10,000 Miles or Avios 30,000
25,000 Miles or Avios 70,000
50,000 Miles or Avios 140,000

So how would you determine a multiplier? I would hope by the hotel since, after all, it is primarily a hotel rewards program.

It remains to be seen if SPG members with lifetime elite status will have that status transferred over on a Gold-for-Gold and Platinum-for-Platinum basis. In any case, I would expect program-to-date Starwood nights to count toward toward Marriott lifetime status. I think we'll see a lot of newly minted Marriott Rewards lifetime elite members coming out of this merger.

 

[jimf41]

Jim,

It would be nice for the VSE folks to have what you propose but as a practical manor I don't see it working. If I understand you correctly you are saying that when a VSE owner stays at his resort they will get MRPs and elite night credits? If that's true then I should be able to use MRPs to stay at a VSE resort and I will get MRPs and elite night credits when I stay there. I don't think that's in anyones business model.

Functionally there would be no difference because the only way to make that scenario work would be to combine the reservation systems. Hyatt has done this with their sale of Hyatt TSs to ILG but Hyatt hotels is still an entity. Starwood is going away.

Marriott didn't sell their TS unit to another company they spun it off to it's own company. VSE is being sold outright to ILG with the agreement that they can still use the Westin and Sheraton name on the cocktail napkins but I've read nothing about VSE being incorporated into the MRP.

 

[SMHarman]

Jim,

It would be nice for the VSE folks to have what you propose but as a practical manor I don't see it working. If I understand you correctly you are saying that when a VSE owner stays at his resort they will get MRPs and elite night credits? If that's true then I should be able to use MRPs to stay at a VSE resort and I will get MRPs and elite night credits when I stay there. I don't think that's in anyones business model.

Functionally there would be no difference because the only way to make that scenario work would be to combine the reservation systems. Hyatt has done this with their sale of Hyatt TSs to ILG but Hyatt hotels is still an entity. Starwood is going away.

Marriott didn't sell their TS unit to another company they spun it off to it's own company. VSE is being sold outright to ILG with the agreement that they can still use the Westin and Sheraton name on the cocktail napkins but I've read nothing about VSE being incorporated into the MRP.

Why not.

SPG can redeem into SVO now.
Starwood own week's / nights in VVE

Why wouldn't that continue. It would certainly be weird to folks outside these forum walls to see a Starwood or Westin name on a property but not be able to book it or redeem miles for it on the Marriott website.

 

[BocaBoy]

Why not.

SPG can redeem into SVO now.
Starwood own week's / nights in VVE

Why wouldn't that continue. It would certainly be weird to folks outside these forum walls to see a Starwood or Westin name on a property but not be able to book it or redeem miles for it on the Marriott website.

It probably comes down to what is still to be negotiated. If the Starwood timeshare group wants to become part of Marriott Rewards that can probably be negotiated, but I doubt that it is something that will happen automatically.