Hilton Grand Vacations strikes deal to acquire Diamond Resorts

[dayooper]

This is one of the differences. Y'all reference everything by your underlying deed where you own at. For us, there is no underlying deed. Since I am in the US Collection, there are 55 resorts that are my "Home" resort.....as such. And as a Club member, I can access any Diamond managed resort without an exchange fee (just different booking windows). Now, they could come up with a rule that Diamond owners wouldn't have to pay an exchange fee if booking in our own collection (which would be fine with me as I rarely go out of collection anyway) but that still would devalue the Diamond ownership for many of our members (the Latino Collection is the smallest at only 1 resort in collection and the US is the largest with 55).

Yes, I am familiar with Fixed or Home week usage. Did that for the first 18 years of ownership. And I enjoy going back to what was my home resort quite often. But for the last 14 years, I have also been able to enjoy going to almost 400 other resorts as well without paying an exchange fee so why would we ever want to go back to just 1 resort that can be used without extra fees? Kind of like giving up your car and getting a horse to go back and forth to work with.

Just for reference, my maint fees last year were about $8,900 and I got about 100 nights usage out of them (mostly 2 bdrm units as we have travel buddies we take almost everywhere).

That is exactly my concern. We don't know where this is going and we also purchased out portfolio based on how the system worked. I'm hoping HGVC realizes that and kind of leaves us alone other than making some kind of cross connection ability so y'all can utilize our resorts as well. I think that would be the best outcome but as CalGirl stated, who knows? That's the hardest part.

Yup, the waiting and not knowing is the hardest part. I know when that happens to me, my mind just runs through every possible bad scenario. I wind up having to walk away from the issue until my brain settles.

 

[CalGalTraveler]

If HGVC tries to integrate us completely with y'alls rules, you'll probably hear a lot of hollering from this side of the fence.

Just my 2 cents worth.

I also empathize with your concerns because there are so many unknowns. As publicly traded entities, neither company can talk to you individually without risking disclosing insider information until the deal is completed this summer.

As @dayooper said, HGV is an ethical company and has high standards. For example, when many developers were not accommodating owners when Covid hit, HGVC had the most flexible policy of their peers so that people would not lose the use of their points.

They have already indicated publicly that they plan on running two programs aimed at two demographics: HGVC and HVC (Diamond). Hopefully this should allay some of your concerns. There may be some adjustments to align policies and finding ways to make money, but I doubt they would make drastic changes that would upset a large part of the owner base. They want to sell to the base.

As long as Diamond/Apollo management is not put in key HGV management roles (other than managing Diamond (HGV) portfolio), I am confident that HGV senior management will figure it out.

 

[bakera]

I'm sorry but that is incorrect. Status is only gained when being a member of The Club and dirty points are not in The Club and have none of the benefits of The Club. Dirty points can (used to be at least) cleaned but unless that was done at some point in time, dirty points grant no privileges in the The Club.

Maybe this is something specific with the EU Collection, but I can guarantee you that we’ve never paid anything to ‘clean’ our resale points and we are most definitely Gold Elite members.

 

[bakera]

Strictly, IMO, HGVC offers very few locations that Diamond doesn't already have. I find the resorts Diamond offers to be plenty good enough for my needs so no, there aren't any HGVC properties that I would care to visit. Especially when that most likely would only be available with some type of upgrade or purchase to make my Diamond points eligible for use in HGVC.

I totally agree. I was initially really excited of merging with HGVC, until I saw they list of resorts. The only one that interests me is the one in Italy. The Scottish ones are nice, but were always fairly easy exchange with II and I personally think that Diamonds Kenmore Club is a much better location.

 

[bakera]

The following details the number of weeks held in trust at each resort within the EU Collection.

 

[escanoe]

My bet (as discussed earlier in this behemoth of a thread) is that DEX will be playing a larger role in the future for us on both ends of the merger. I don't think there is much we know about how this will play out .... but that it one thing I am kind of excited about. I am hoping each end of the merger can book in the other's through DEX and pay much lower exchange fees than RCI and avoid paying each other's resort fees.

That would require Diamond converting their access to RCI. Until 31 Dec 2020, we accessed II for exchanges outside of Diamond and they just recently revamped DEX for point owners and moved all of us to DEX and dropped II. Owners could continue utilizing II if they wished but would have to pay for their own II membership instead of having it included in their maint fees.

 

[bakera]

My bet (as discussed earlier in this behemoth of a thread) is that DEX will be playing a larger role in the future for us on both ends of the merger. I don't think there is much we know about how this will play out .... but it is one thing I am kind of excited about. I am hoping each end of the merger can book in the other's through DEX and pay much lower exchange fees than RCI and avoid paying each other's resort fees.

Forget DEX. As an EU Collection points owner the number of points required to exchange is far higher than through II. I cannot see any benefit of DEX.

 

[Fried_shrimp]

Maybe this is something specific with the EU Collection, but I can guarantee you that we’ve never paid anything to ‘clean’ our resale points and we are most definitely Gold Elite members.

I really don't know much about the EU Collection other than they closed all of their sales centers several years ago and they have some nice resorts which I have had the pleasure of staying at. In the US, Hawaii, and Latino Collections, one had to purchase at least 50% developer points to clean their dirty points.

 

[Fried_shrimp]

I totally agree. I was initially really excited of merging with HGVC, until I saw they list of resorts. The only one that interests me is the one in Italy. The Scottish ones are nice, but were always fairly easy exchange with II and I personally think that Diamonds Kenmore Club is a much better location.

Have you visited either of the two resorts in Soriano? While not fancy per say, very nice resorts and close to Rome and the Tuscan wineries. I enjoyed my time there and hope to go back again next year......if they are still available for us to use.

 

[dayooper]

Forget DEX. As an EU Collection points owner the number of points required to exchange is far higher than through II. I cannot see any benefit of DEX.

Unless they change the points amounts. Having that already in place might make it easier to exchange between the two systems. HGVC has to have some sort of mechanism to get HVC (Diamond owners) to come to HGVC resorts and upsale. HGVC does deposits weeks into RCI so they can sell to them. My guess is they will do the same with DEX. Entice them with the gifts and make their pitch. Sell the HVC to the new owners and have them trade in their ownership for a more expensive one. Obviously, the savy DRI owners won’t fall for it, but that’s how HGVC makes their case.

 

[Fried_shrimp]

My bet (as discussed earlier in this behemoth of a thread) is that DEX will be playing a larger role in the future for us on both ends of the merger. I don't think there is much we know about how this will play out .... but it is one thing I am kind of excited about. I am hoping each end of the merger can book in the other's through DEX and pay much lower exchange fees than RCI and avoid paying each other's resort fees.

And I was thinking DEX would go away since Hilton already utilizes RCI which is what most of the DEX properties fall under. Granted, the exchange fees are cheaper with DEX compared to RCI and it's possible HGVC could disassociate with RCI the way Diamond did with II last year and both sides use DEX (HEX maybe....lol). So many possibilities could happen. Anyone want to flip a quarter??

 

[Fried_shrimp]

The following details the number of weeks held in trust at each resort within the EU Collection.View attachment 33653

How did it work for your trust owners when Diamond unloaded some of the EU Collection resorts (such as the 3 they held in Ireland)?

 

[Fried_shrimp]

Forget DEX. As an EU Collection points owner the number of points required to exchange is far higher than through II. I cannot see any benefit of DEX.

If you haven't looked in the past month or so, some of the point values of the resorts have decreased. I agree, they were stupidly astronomical when they first came out with Studios, 1 bdrm, and 2 bdrm units going for the same price pointwise at the same resort during the same week.

 

[Hubble]

This is one of the differences. Y'all reference everything by your underlying deed where you own at. For us, there is no underlying deed. Since I am in the US Collection, there are 55 resorts that are my "Home" resort.....as such. And as a Club member, I can access any Diamond managed resort without an exchange fee (just different booking windows). Now, they could come up with a rule that Diamond owners wouldn't have to pay an exchange fee if booking in our own collection (which would be fine with me as I rarely go out of collection anyway) but that still would devalue the Diamond ownership for many of our members (the Latino Collection is the smallest at only 1 resort in collection and the US is the largest with 55).

Yes, I am familiar with Fixed or Home week usage. Did that for the first 18 years of ownership. And I enjoy going back to what was my home resort quite often. But for the last 14 years, I have also been able to enjoy going to almost 400 other resorts as well without paying an exchange fee so why would we ever want to go back to just 1 resort that can be used without extra fees? Kind of like giving up your car and getting a horse to go back and forth to work with.

Just for reference, my maint fees last year were about $8,900 and I got about 100 nights usage out of them (mostly 2 bdrm units as we have travel buddies we take almost everywhere).

That is exactly my concern. We don't know where this is going and we also purchased out portfolio based on how the system worked. I'm hoping HGVC realizes that and kind of leaves us alone other than making some kind of cross connection ability so y'all can utilize our resorts as well. I think that would be the best outcome but as CalGirl stated, who knows? That's the hardest part.

It sounds as if things are working out well for you. I wasn't terribly happy with things, and did the "Transitions" thing last year after 6 years of ownership (VA Beach, via Gold Key). We had kept our deeded week despite all sorts of pressure to convert, mainly because they wanted 12-14K to make their minimum, and it all felt like extortion. Things worked out well for a time, and we enjoyed Getaways and the Interval exchanges were all reasonable. I considered the Diamond Xchange system, but their inventory seems slanted to the West, and most of the Eastern places we've been to many times. Maybe I'll regret it, but I'm okay with the decision for now.

 

[escanoe]

DEX at this point appears to be a way for Diamond to handle exchanges between Diamond owners internally and a sophisticated portal to RCI for everything else. Over time I could see it standing on its own as an exchange without working through RCI.

I see opportunity for HGV here. And with Club Wyndham owning RCI, they have every incentive to compete rather than increasing their dependency (and sharing of customer data) with a gigantic competitor.

One more point: HGV owning Diamond puts them in a place where they are more directly competing with Wyndham instead of simply being the main supplier of upscale inventory to RCI, and not competing all that much with Club Wyndham on sales.

And I was thinking DEX would go away since Hilton already utilizes RCI which is what most of the DEX properties fall under. Granted, the exchange fees are cheaper with DEX compared to RCI and it's possible HGVC could disassociate with RCI the way Diamond did with II last year and both sides use DEX (HEX maybe....lol). So many possibilities could happen. Anyone want to flip a quarter??

 

[Eric B]

One more point: HGV owning Wyndham puts them in a place where they are more directly competing with Wyndham instead of simply being the main supplier of upscale inventory to RCI, and not competing all that much with Club Wyndham on sales.

???

 

[Fried_shrimp]

It sounds as if things are working out well for you. I wasn't terribly happy with things, and did the "Transitions" thing last year after 6 years of ownership (VA Beach, via Gold Key). We had kept our deeded week despite all sorts of pressure to convert, mainly because they wanted 12-14K to make their minimum, and it all felt like extortion. Things worked out well for a time, and we enjoyed Getaways and the Interval exchanges were all reasonable. I considered the Diamond Xchange system, but their inventory seems slanted to the West, and most of the Eastern places we've been to many times. Maybe I'll regret it, but I'm okay with the decision for now.

Things "were" going well for me. The future remains to be seen.

 

[Fried_shrimp]

DEX at this point appears to be a way for Diamond to handle exchanges between Diamond owners internally and a sophisticated portal to RCI for everything else. Over time I could see it standing on its own as an exchange without working through RCI.

I see opportunity for HGV here. And with Club Wyndham owning RCI, they have every incentive to compete rather than increasing their dependency (and sharing of customer data) with a gigantic competitor.

One more point: HGV owning Wyndham puts them in a place where they are more directly competing with Wyndham instead of simply being the main supplier of upscale inventory to RCI, and not competing all that much with Club Wyndham on sales.

DEX is how Diamond week owners handle exchanges. Point owners use the Diamond site and DEX is pushed as a way to save points for 5 years if you can't use your points in a given year. I don't know of a single point owner who has used DEX yet.

 

[escanoe]

???

Meant Diamond/DRI instead of Wyndham at the beginning of that section. I have edited the original post.

 

[bakera]

Have you visited either of the two resorts in Soriano? While not fancy per say, very nice resorts and close to Rome and the Tuscan wineries. I enjoyed my time there and hope to go back again next year......if they are still available for us to use.

Yes, twice. Beautiful area. The second visit was during the annual Chestnut Festival - but we like to try new places.

 

[bakera]

How did it work for your trust owners when Diamond unloaded some of the EU Collection resorts (such as the 3 they held in Ireland)?

The three Irish resorts were never in the trust. We had a great time in Ireland when the resorts were first made available, but all three resorts are very close to each other and it’s the kind of destination that you only need to d9 once. The resorts that hurt when they removed them were Carlton Court (London) and Broome Park (Kent). These were two of our favourites. They added extra weeks in other locations to maintain the availability but it doesn’t make up for the loss of the resorts.

 

[bakera]

If you haven't looked in the past month or so, some of the point values of the resorts have decreased. I agree, they were stupidly astronomical when they first came out with Studios, 1 bdrm, and 2 bdrm units going for the same price pointwise at the same resort during the same week.

I‘ve not looked for a while, but will now. What got me was that it appeared to be the same points year round.

 

[frank808]

This is one of the differences. Y'all reference everything by your underlying deed where you own at. For us, there is no underlying deed. Since I am in the US Collection, there are 55 resorts that are my "Home" resort.....as such. And as a Club member, I can access any Diamond managed resort without an exchange fee (just different booking windows). Now, they could come up with a rule that Diamond owners wouldn't have to pay an exchange fee if booking in our own collection (which would be fine with me as I rarely go out of collection anyway) but that still would devalue the Diamond ownership for many of our members (the Latino Collection is the smallest at only 1 resort in collection and the US is the largest with 55).

But for the last 14 years, I have also been able to enjoy going to almost 400 other resorts as well without paying an exchange fee so why would we ever want to go back to just 1 resort that can be used without extra fees? Kind of like giving up your car and getting a horse to go back and forth to work with.

Just wondering how did you visit 400 other resorts witouut paying exchange fee? I didn't know diamond owned 400 resorts.

If they are brining in 400 resorts then diamond is larger than Marriott, westin and Hilton timeshares combined. That is awesome that hgvc acquired diamond then.

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[Fried_shrimp]

Just wondering how did you visit 400 other resorts witouut paying exchange fee? I didn't know diamond owned 400 resorts.

If they are brining in 400 resorts then diamond is larger than Marriott, westin and Hilton timeshares combined. That is awesome that hgvc acquired diamond then.

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Diamond doesn't own (manage) 400 resorts. Diamond manages about 100 resorts and was affiliated with about 300 other resorts/hotels. Anything booked through the Diamond portal had no exchange fees. Only if you go outside the Diamond portal through II or DEX was there an exchange fee. So I would just go on the Diamond portal, find a place I wanted to go and book it with just my points. Booked two weekends last night for next Jan/Feb (get it while the getting's good) and didn't spend an extra penny. Now some say those exchange fees are embedded in out maint fees and that might be true but I don't have to worry about spending any extra money booking locations as long as I stayed inside of the Diamond portal.

 

[Fried_shrimp]

I‘ve not looked for a while, but will now. What got me was that it appeared to be the same points year round.

DEX is far from being perfected as I still quite often see a Studio/1 bdrm/2 bdrm at the same resort, same week for the same price in points but I do see some variance in weeks at different times of the year and I also see a LOT more in the 6,000 to 8,000 point range whereas almost everything (around 90+%) was max 12,000 points when they first showed us DEX.