Hilton Grand Vacations resale feasibility and Wyndham VIP resale

[djro]

We have tried out several types of timeshares using Hilton Grand and Wyndham's introductory plans. We have found we enjoyed them both and are looking to buy resale. We thought about purchasing points from both Hilton and Wyndham to give us options. Any thoughts about this?

Also, when we went for our last Hilton check-in we were told by the Hilton sales person that since Hilton has First right of refusal very rarely would a Hilton timeshare be available through the resale market. We have seen several on the Timeshare market place, what's the likelihood of those purchases really going through if Hilton is buying them all up?

We are also interested in Wyndham's CWA. Through Tugg market place I have found several under Wyndham VIP, is this a legit resale broker?

 

[Bill4728]

The HGVC salesmen don't want you to buy resale weeks therefore told you that resale weeks generally don't pass ROFR. Baloney

BTW HGVC doesn't have points. Their weeks are assigned points but you own a week at a resort. Hilton Vacation club HVC (AKA Diamond Resorts) has both weeks and points.

 

[dioxide45]

We picked up a freebie (just paid closing costs and transfer fees) CWA contract last year. If I were to do it again, i would probably watch out for a better MF/1000 point CWS contract.

 

[Volkyro]

If you really just want in the HGVC ecosystem, someone is desperately trying to get rid of a silver week in the giveaway forum. I'm not sure what amount you'd need to get passed ROFR, but it's likely not high.

 

[djro]

Are all of the for sale timeshare listings under the TUGG timeshare marketplace legit or do I need to do my homework? There are several for Wyndham CWA under a listing called Wyndham VIP, they look very tempting but I can't find anything about the company or listing owner.

 

[jp10558]

I can tell you the easy way (and some would argue the best way) to get HGVC is buy from Craig in Scotland. Get at least 11,200pts IMHO, so 2BR platinum season. The MFs are very low on those. I paid about the same for a 2BR week in Florida, and after the broker fees, MF reimbursement, closing costs etc it was about the same or more than from Craig direct. And my MFs are about $500 more a year for the same points. I low key want to pick up a Craig week myself.

I also got Club Wyndham Select/Plus?? Not CWA. I think there are a number of properties for less than CWA MF prices, and still cheap on eBay, which is where I got mine.

TBH, I feel like for my travels, the 11,200pts is more than I need for 1 week off season, but not enough for 2 weeks. That said, I can save or borrow points, and HGVC locations are kind of limited. I think the worst thing would be Hawaii if I wanted to try for a newer location, they are very expensive in points vs the older locations that are the "standard" 11,200pts.

Wyndham I mostly feel like I could use any points I have - I got 405,000 and could easily use more than that. But I don't want to lock in the MFs right now. Wyndham has options just about anywhere HGVC has in the US, but they're not quite as nice or not quite as nice a location. That said, you can easily get lots of points for not much up front from Wyndham on eBay, and there are free options too for smaller point values. The thing about Wyndham is that if you're flexible, you can often get them on RCI Extra Vacations for less than the MF cost for the points. So that can argue against it - at least for overbuilt areas.

The logic behind my point values was to get enough points to get a 2BR for a week at around 90% of the locations in the system. Your needs will vary. It certainly is doable resale, and recommended.

 

[chapjim]

Go to the HGVC Forum. At the top of the page, there's a section called ROFR Exercised/Passed.

The conventional wisdom is that ROFR is being exercised on Myrtle Beach contracts but not so much elsewhere.

 

[Sandy VDH]

I own both Wyndham and HGVC. I also own others.

HGVC mainly has a lot of a resorts in a few areas, and a one resort in a few other places. I don't have MAX just HGVC. I like Hilton units and generally their attitude and desire to be somewhat helpful.

Wyndham (with WM) has a lotta, lotta resorts, everywhere. So that is good for other purposes. And you can use it to align up a cross country road trip.

 

[TUGBrian]

Are all of the for sale timeshare listings under the TUGG timeshare marketplace legit or do I need to do my homework? There are several for Wyndham CWA under a listing called Wyndham VIP, they look very tempting but I can't find anything about the company or listing owner.

if you mean legit as in not scams or fake listings then yes they are legitimate.

however before you buy any timeshare you need to do your homework! just because its being offered for free doesnt make it any less of a risk to buy without doing the proper research to know what you are getting!

 

[Chris-ATX]

The conventional wisdom is that ROFR is being exercised on Myrtle Beach contracts but not so much elsewhere.

This is what I've been hearing - HGVC in S Carolina is being exercised, unless it is >~$2/point. I heard this from one of the timeshare MLS broker people.

 

[chapjim]

I own both Wyndham and HGVC. I also own others.

HGVC mainly has a lot of a resorts in a few areas, and a one resort in a few other places. I don't have MAX just HGVC. I like Hilton units and generally their attitude and desire to be somewhat helpful.

Wyndham (with WM) has a lotta, lotta resorts, everywhere. So that is good for other purposes. And you can use it to align up a cross country road trip.

HGVC's list of destinations has increased a lot but it's because of an arrangement with Great Wolf Lodges, which are outrageously expensive when using HGVC points. Looks good but not very useful.

 

[weems637]

We have both HGVC and Wyndham as our portfolio. Started out with HGVC and then picked up Wyndham as they have several locations in one of our desired locations.

 

[Janann]

Also, when we went for our last Hilton check-in we were told by the Hilton sales person that since Hilton has First right of refusal very rarely would a Hilton timeshare be available through the resale market. We have seen several on the Timeshare market place, what's the likelihood of those purchases really going through if Hilton is buying them all up?

HGVC will say anything to convince you that retail is the only way to go. There are plenty of people on these boards who bought HGVC resale.

 

[4TimeAway]

Also, when we went for our last Hilton check-in we were told by the Hilton sales person that since Hilton has First right of refusal very rarely would a Hilton timeshare be available through the resale market. We have seen several on the Timeshare market place, what's the likelihood of those purchases really going through if Hilton is buying them all up?

Did an owner's update VIP presentation today. Some observations are as follows:

MAX doesn't transfer las resale, like it was good thing for me the buyer. I'm paying extra to buy something I can't sell. Perhaps his point was this is the only way to get it, but 90% of the time was spent on DEX. He had me confused which probably it was also the point.

We mentioned we only have 2 weeks of vacation a year and he then described how we owned enough pints for 5 weeks of vacation.

They claim Hilton is buying all the deeds backs. Not true. Couldn't get the words in to ROFR.net, but it was spiraling by then.

They claim Hilton is upgrading all the units, since they can afford it. Not true. I had to mention, my MFs include improvements and capital expenses.

The kicker... MAX is the way forward, everything else will be worthless..... My resales were worthless and he could save me today.

Said I didn't have the money to pay today and so he went the TO and came back to pitch a EOY Silver Elara Studio for $20k or something.

We left.


Only thing learned is the way they are spinning MAX seems like they want it to replace RCI and Interval. He did a 24 month search for property options in California. Took forever to load and was not even something we were interested in.

 

[bartpennington]

I can tell you the easy way (and some would argue the best way) to get HGVC is buy from Craig in Scotland. Get at least 11,200pts IMHO, so 2BR platinum season. The MFs are very low on those. I paid about the same for a 2BR week in Florida, and after the broker fees, MF reimbursement, closing costs etc it was about the same or more than from Craig direct. And my MFs are about $500 more a year for the same points. I low key want to pick up a Craig week myself.

I also got Club Wyndham Select/Plus?? Not CWA. I think there are a number of properties for less than CWA MF prices, and still cheap on eBay, which is where I got mine.

TBH, I feel like for my travels, the 11,200pts is more than I need for 1 week off season, but not enough for 2 weeks. That said, I can save or borrow points, and HGVC locations are kind of limited. I think the worst thing would be Hawaii if I wanted to try for a newer location, they are very expensive in points vs the older locations that are the "standard" 11,200pts.

Wyndham I mostly feel like I could use any points I have - I got 405,000 and could easily use more than that. But I don't want to lock in the MFs right now. Wyndham has options just about anywhere HGVC has in the US, but they're not quite as nice or not quite as nice a location. That said, you can easily get lots of points for not much up front from Wyndham on eBay, and there are free options too for smaller point values. The thing about Wyndham is that if you're flexible, you can often get them on RCI Extra Vacations for less than the MF cost for the points. So that can argue against it - at least for overbuilt areas.

The logic behind my point values was to get enough points to get a 2BR for a week at around 90% of the locations in the system. Your needs will vary. It certainly is doable resale, and recommended.

Interesting info on Craig. Thanks for the heads up! Just rescinded HGVC purchase (thanks to you guys) and am looking for the most bang for my buck on the resale market. How does Craig‘s RCI points value compare to those of the Vegas contracts? Both have pretty low MFs.

 

[GT75]

Interesting info on Craig. Thanks for the heads up! Just rescinded HGVC purchase (thanks to you guys) and am looking for the most bang for my buck on the resale market. How does Craig‘s RCI points value compare to those of the Vegas contracts? Both have pretty low MFs.

Congratulations on rescinding a developer purchase. Several of us own Craig including myself. Craig HGVC points values are very similar to LVs. Here is the point chart:

There are several advantages to purchasing at Craig such as:

• If you purchase from the HGVC onsite resale agent, the purchase will qualify for Legacy elite levels
• Low transfer fees and legal fees
• very good MF/point ratio (but that also depends on the UK inflation rate and exchange rate.
• Craig can trade in RCI, II and now DeX (this last one is very exciting).

Disadvantage:

• MFs fluctuate with the exchange rate.

If you have further question, I suggest that you post them in the HGVC forum. We have several HGVC Tug members that love to help.

 

[frytard]

Did an owner's update VIP presentation today. Some observations are as follows:

MAX doesn't transfer las resale, like it was good thing for me the buyer. I'm paying extra to buy something I can't sell. Perhaps his point was this is the only way to get it, but 90% of the time was spent on DEX. He had me confused which probably it was also the point.

We mentioned we only have 2 weeks of vacation a year and he then described how we owned enough pints for 5 weeks of vacation.

They claim Hilton is buying all the deeds backs. Not true. Couldn't get the words in to ROFR.net, but it was spiraling by then.

They claim Hilton is upgrading all the units, since they can afford it. Not true. I had to mention, my MFs include improvements and capital expenses.

The kicker... MAX is the way forward, everything else will be worthless..... My resales were worthless and he could save me today.

Said I didn't have the money to pay today and so he went the TO and came back to pitch a EOY Silver Elara Studio for $20k or something.

We left.


Only thing learned is the way they are spinning MAX seems like they want it to replace RCI and Interval. He did a 24 month search for property options in California. Took forever to load and was not even something we were interested in.

I went to a presentation today and max seemed interesting. Having places within 45 days for a week for $300. What am I missing about it? Do Hawaii and other desirable places get taken quickly? Is Inventory low?

Also the other thing I was interested in was the discount max offers for properties if you don’t want to use points? They seemed to be as good as owner presentation getaway discounts. Is that true?

 

[dougp26364]

Did an owner's update VIP presentation today. Some observations are as follows:

MAX doesn't transfer las resale, like it was good thing for me the buyer. I'm paying extra to buy something I can't sell. Perhaps his point was this is the only way to get it, but 90% of the time was spent on DEX. He had me confused which probably it was also the point.

We mentioned we only have 2 weeks of vacation a year and he then described how we owned enough pints for 5 weeks of vacation.

They claim Hilton is buying all the deeds backs. Not true. Couldn't get the words in to ROFR.net, but it was spiraling by then.

They claim Hilton is upgrading all the units, since they can afford it. Not true. I had to mention, my MFs include improvements and capital expenses.

The kicker... MAX is the way forward, everything else will be worthless..... My resales were worthless and he could save me today.

Said I didn't have the money to pay today and so he went the TO and came back to pitch a EOY Silver Elara Studio for $20k or something.

We left.


Only thing learned is the way they are spinning MAX seems like they want it to replace RCI and Interval. He did a 24 month search for property options in California. Took forever to load and was not even something we were interested in.

A perfect example of why we’ve avoided the HGVC owners updates.
1. The gifts they offer aren’t enough to get my right butt cheek off the sleeper sofa in the unit
2. They tell so many half truths I can’t resist arguing with them to the point of calling them outright liars, and that never lands very well.

If they had included a 9 month booking window with MAX rather than a 6 month window, maybe we’d have had some slight interest.

As to the OP’s original salesman’s claim that existing resales are all being bought back by Hilton, I’d have laughed so hard the interview would have been over because I’d have peed myself.

We haven’t been to a HGCV owners update or sales presentation in over 10 years. Our original purchase was back in either 2002 or 2003. I think the first update was the year after we purchased and wasn’t to bad. The next time we went I got so fed up with the lies we just got up and walked out. The last one we went on I was inclined to transfer our deeded week from LV Blvd to Elara since that’s where we had been staying, but they focused on selling us down in points and moving our deeded week to Kingsland for the low price of somewhere around $18,000. Let me repeat that. We would pay them $18,000, receive fewer annual points and own a deed in a location we’ve traveled to once since our original TS in 1998 vs a deed in a location we’ve traveled to frequently. After the last presentation I’ve had no use for their gifts that have been worth approx $150 for 90 or 120 minutes of torture.

If you want to actually learn some truth about timeshares and specific timeshare systems, read TUG and stay away from the presentations unless you just want the gifts. When you do go to a presentation, be aware you’ll often know more about their system than the person presenting to you.

 

[4TimeAway]

I went to a presentation today and max seemed interesting. Having places within 45 days for a week for $300. What am I missing about it? Do Hawaii and other desirable places get taken quickly? Is Inventory low?

Also the other thing I was interested in was the discount max offers for properties if you don’t want to use points? They seemed to be as good as owner presentation getaway discounts. Is that true?

Resale includes the Open Season deal that is a 3 night minimum stay at places with availability.

You hit the nail on the head, timeshare work at near 100% booked time so there selection it spotty. That said it can work, but last minute RCI, GPX (and I'm sure II) deals are about as good and with more selection. We see some times of the year there are a couple of options in places we'd go, but mostly its not Fri/Sat in Vegas type availability.

We are probably going to buy a large points (20,000+) Kingsland resale for a price that I really won't say, but look at ROFR.net. The value to me is below a 1/50 of a timeshare unit. If the MFs weren't so high it would be better than a condo. For our useage it is 10x better, but its not an "investment."

 

[frytard]

A perfect example of why we’ve avoided the HGVC owners updates.
1. The gifts they offer aren’t enough to get my right butt cheek off the sleeper sofa in the unit
2. They tell so many half truths I can’t resist arguing with them to the point of calling them outright liars, and that never lands very well.

If they had included a 9 month booking window with MAX rather than a 6 month window, maybe we’d have had some slight interest.

As to the OP’s original salesman’s claim that existing resales are all being bought back by Hilton, I’d have laughed so hard the interview would have been over because I’d have peed myself.

We haven’t been to a HGCV owners update or sales presentation in over 10 years. Our original purchase was back in either 2002 or 2003. I think the first update was the year after we purchased and wasn’t to bad. The ne t time we went I got so fed up with the lies we just got up and walked out. The last one we went on I was inclined to transfer our deeded week from LV Blvd to Elara since that’s where we had been staying, but they focused on selling us down in points and moving our deeded week to Kingsland for the low price of somewhere around $18,000. Let me repeat that. We would pay the. $18,000, receive fewer annual points and own a deed in a location we’ve traveled to once since our original TS in 1998 vs a deed in a location we’ve traveled to frequently. After the last presentation I’ve had no use for their gifts that have been worth approx $150 for 90 or 120 minutes of torture.

If you want to actually learn some truth about timeshares and specific timeshare systems, read TUG and stay away from the presentations unless you just want the gifts. When you do go to a presentation, be aware you’ll often know more about their system than the person presenting to you.

I kept mentioning what is the price per point maintenance fee and the salesman either didnt know what i was talking about or played dumb.

 

[4TimeAway]

I kept mentioning what is the price per point maintenance fee and the salesman either didnt know what i was talking about or played dumb.

That is one area that the average "owner" is not aware of.

It is the question am I getting a good deal, compared to what?

At say $500/night, you're paying $100-$300/night, plus the loan payment (please buy resale) it could still work out on an annual basis, but resale at $100/night is about the best value you'll get other than a last minute or deal. On average, people spend money in a million ways and timeshares can be a good spend. It’s the optimization of resale and knowing MF/point that makes you an educated consumer.

If the rules were based on a fixed MF/point for the entire resort, this arbitrage would not work, so it is learning the rules and reacting to them that causes this to be so powerful a question.

The salespeople would blush at offering you a 20,000+ point Kingsland deed for $100,000+, when you mention the resale prices.

 

[frytard]

That is one area that the average "owner" is not aware of.

It is the question am I getting a good deal, compared to what?

At say $500/night, you're paying $100-$300/night, plus the loan payment (please buy resale) it could still work out on an annual basis, but resale at $100/night is about the best value you'll get other than a last minute or deal. On average, people spend money in a million ways and timeshares can be a good spend. It’s the optimization of resale and knowing MF/point that makes you an educated consumer.

If the rules were based on a fixed MF/point for the entire resort, this arbitrage would not work, so it is learning the rules and reacting to them that causes this to be so powerful a question.

The salespeople would blush at offering you a 20,000+ point Kingsland deed for $100,000+, when you mention the resale prices.

One thing i did fall for yesterday was buy the "VIP package" for 11500 points for 1800 dollars. Should i return this or keep it to see if i like HGVC. It is quite tempting to sample without the responsibility of a deed, but at the same time It is 1/5 the price of just getting a boulevard platinum week lol.

 

[dougp26364]

It’s not a bad deal IMHO in that you’re spending $257/night in a 2 bedroom condo during platinum season. It’s hard to find that price for a lot of hotels that offer 2 bedroom suites with the amenities offered by most timeshares.

I don’t believe you have the same cooling off period with these programs as you do when you purchase a timeshare. I think the wording in the fine print says all sales are final, so make good use of it and enjoy the vacation.

 

[frytard]

It’s not a bad deal IMHO in that you’re spending $257/night in a 2 bedroom condo during platinum season. It’s hard to find that price for a lot of hotels that offer 2 bedroom suites with the amenities offered by most timeshares.

I don’t believe you have the same cooling off period with these programs as you do when you purchase a timeshare. I think the wording in the fine print says all sales are final, so make good use of it and enjoy the vacation.

On the fine print - techinically i have 7 days to send, but yea 257 for a 2 BR is hard to beat which is why i didn't mind doing it.

 

[dougp26364]

On the fine print - techinically i have 7 days to send, but yea 257 for a 2 BR is hard to beat which is why i didn't mind doing it.

If it says you can and you think you’ll have trouble using it, then I’d cancel.