Hernia surgery shouldn't cost more than $50,000. His bill was $116,000.

[WVBaker]

When Jeff Samford learned he needed surgery for double hernia repair, he did some research and found it would likely cost in the neighborhood of $10,000 to $12,000.

Then we received a bill from Henrico Doctors for $116,000"

Among the charges:
$45 for a single oxycodone
$1,700 for scissors
More than $18,000 for two kits of 10 ml tisseel topical

Jennifer Obenchain with the Patient Advocate Foundation said the wide variation in charges is perfectly legal.

"Can hospitals charge whatever they want for procedures?"

"Unfortunately, yes," Obenchain said.

https://www.wmar2news.com/news/nati...WSTuh0t6vxEMtn95izf2-Mbd16HL6uypNK9TI3ew1vYJQ


Shop around for written estimates?

 

[Conan]

"Medicare For All" But what if that leads to higher income taxes?

 

[Passepartout]

Welcome to the world of American healthcare. When I was hospitalized 1 1/2 years ago in Germany for 9 days with pheumonia, heart failure, angiography and had a pacemaker installed, the bill was 1/2 page long and about $12,000. The medical staff all spoke English, and the my doc- the chief of Cardiology- was educated at Cedars Sinai in Los Angeles.The pacer was upgraded 2 months ago at a local hospital- with 1 night in hospital for observation, so far, I've seen EOB's for $87,000. There will be more.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. In EVERY country that has universal healthcare, there has NEVER been a vote to return to 'fee for service' like we have in the USA.

I would say that our 'system' (or lack thereof) could be defended if outcomes were better, but the truth is the U.S. is something like number 27 in life expectancy. People in EVERY one of those countries with universal healthcare simply live longer, have lower infant mortality, and don't live in fear that an illness or injury could bankrupt them.

'Higher taxes', Conan? Probably, but zero insurance premiums, better care, longer life and protection from financial ruin wins out every time.

Jim

 

[bluehende]

I will say it again. When a for profit industry has your life as a value in use for their product the ask will be as close to everything you have as can be.

 

[Passepartout]

• 17 of the highest-paid CEOs in healthcare

The annual Equilar 100 examines CEO compensation at some of the nation's largest companies by revenue for fiscal year 2017. The 100-company study includes businesses that filed annual proxy statements before March 31. Equilar is scheduled to release its annual Equilar 200 study in conjunction with The New York Times in May as more public companies file their executive compensation data during the month of April.

Here is how much 17 healthcare CEOs received in compensation during fiscal year 2017, according to Equilar.

6. Ian Read (Pfizer) — $26.17 million
9. Michael F. Neidorff (Centene) — $25.26 million
10. Alex Gorsky (Johnson & Johnson) — $22.84 million
20. Joseph M. Zubretsky (Molina Healthcare) — $19.74 million
22. Richard A. Gonzalez (AbbVie) — $19.13 million
24. Giovanni Caforio (Bristol Myers-Squibb) — $18.69 million
34. David M. Cordani (Cigna) — $17.55 million
47. Timothy Wentworth (Express Scripts) — $15.90 million
51. Miles D. White (Abbott Laboratories) — $15.62 million
53. John F. Milligan (Gilead Sciences) — $15.44 million
56. Bruce D. Broussard (Humana) — $14.87 million
62. Stefano Pessina (Walgreens) — $14.67 million
63. David A. Ricks (Eli Lilly) — $14.50 million
66. R. Milton Johnson (HCA Healthcare) — $13.71 million
83. George S. Barrett (Cardinal Health) — $10.99 million
86. Steven H. Collis (AmerisourceBergen) — $9.91 million
99. Ron A. Rittenmeyer (Tenet Healthcare) — $3.65 million

Want to see where your healthcare dollars go? These guys make 10's of thousands of dollars A DAY.

Jim

 

[klpca]

I have a friend whose daughter now lives permanently in the UK. My friends were definitely 100% opposed to the European model of health care. But now that their daughter lives there and is accessing the health care system, their minds are slowly changing. Their daughter pointed out that while she pays higher taxes for health care, the cost is more than offset by not paying health insurance premiums. And she is comfortable with the medical services provided (she just had a baby). She is a financial executive and completely understands the financial implications of the system. She has been able to explain this to her parents who are starting to come around on the idea. I was surprised by her positive response to the UK system just because their family does not agree with that philosophy at all.

Back in 2008 I had a hysterectomy. I was in the hospital for just over 24 hours, no complications, no pain killers (I weirdly have a high pain threshold) and the bill was $135,000 +/-, and that did not include the bills for the surgeon or anesthesiologist. That's when I knew that our system was totally out of control. I never could figure out what cost so darn much. Of course the negotiated amount was less, but still over $80,000 IIRC. Our out of pocket was much lower. Stupid system.

 

[Brett]

When Jeff Samford learned he needed surgery for double hernia repair, he did some research and found it would likely cost in the neighborhood of $10,000 to $12,000.

Then we received a bill from Henrico Doctors for $116,000"

Among the charges:
$45 for a single oxycodone
$1,700 for scissors
More than $18,000 for two kits of 10 ml tisseel topical

Jennifer Obenchain with the Patient Advocate Foundation said the wide variation in charges is perfectly legal.

"Can hospitals charge whatever they want for procedures?"

"Unfortunately, yes," Obenchain said.

https://www.wmar2news.com/news/nati...WSTuh0t6vxEMtn95izf2-Mbd16HL6uypNK9TI3ew1vYJQ


Shop around for written estimates?

yes, definitely shop around for surgical procedures but sometimes it's difficult if you're having a heart attack or stroke

This guy significantly lowered his surgery costs for a hernia operation .....

https://www.courier-journal.com/sto...ttack-senator-have-surgery-canada/2568200002/

 

[pedro47]

• 17 of the highest-paid CEOs in healthcare

The annual Equilar 100 examines CEO compensation at some of the nation's largest companies by revenue for fiscal year 2017. The 100-company study includes businesses that filed annual proxy statements before March 31. Equilar is scheduled to release its annual Equilar 200 study in conjunction with The New York Times in May as more public companies file their executive compensation data during the month of April.

Here is how much 17 healthcare CEOs received in compensation during fiscal year 2017, according to Equilar.

6. Ian Read (Pfizer) — $26.17 million
9. Michael F. Neidorff (Centene) — $25.26 million
10. Alex Gorsky (Johnson & Johnson) — $22.84 million
20. Joseph M. Zubretsky (Molina Healthcare) — $19.74 million
22. Richard A. Gonzalez (AbbVie) — $19.13 million
24. Giovanni Caforio (Bristol Myers-Squibb) — $18.69 million
34. David M. Cordani (Cigna) — $17.55 million
47. Timothy Wentworth (Express Scripts) — $15.90 million
51. Miles D. White (Abbott Laboratories) — $15.62 million
53. John F. Milligan (Gilead Sciences) — $15.44 million
56. Bruce D. Broussard (Humana) — $14.87 million
62. Stefano Pessina (Walgreens) — $14.67 million
63. David A. Ricks (Eli Lilly) — $14.50 million
66. R. Milton Johnson (HCA Healthcare) — $13.71 million
83. George S. Barrett (Cardinal Health) — $10.99 million
86. Steven H. Collis (AmerisourceBergen) — $9.91 million
99. Ron A. Rittenmeyer (Tenet Healthcare) — $3.65 million

Want to see where your healthcare dollars go? These guys make 10's of thousands of dollars A DAY.

Jim

Now that those salaries are not bad for a yearly salary IMO.
Those 17 healthcare CEO received over 200 million dollars in compensation for just one year of employment. They must work at lot of over time IMHO. LOL.

 

[CanuckTravlr]

Yes, higher income taxes here, but hernia operations and heart surgery are "free". I have several friends and clients here that have had them. I am obviously biased, but I think I prefer "prepaying" through my taxes.

 

[turkel]

Ah why did your pacemaker of 18 months need to be changed?

 

[turkel]

Ohhhhhhh I reread your post it was upgraded.

 

[PigsDad]

Want to see where your healthcare dollars go? These guys make 10's of thousands of dollars A DAY.

Sorry, but this is NOT the issue. CEO pay is but a tiny drop in the bucket.

Let's take the top one on your list: Pfizer's CEO compensation of $26.17M

Pfizer's total revenue for 2018 was 53.7 Billion. So the CEO's compensation was 0.049% of total revenue, which means that if the CEO took zero compensation and 100% of his salary was used to reduce the end-users' costs for Pfizer's drugs, there would only be a 0.049% price decrease to the consumer.

And you think this is the problem??? Think again.

Kurt

 

[Passepartout]

Ah why did your pacemaker of 18 months need to be changed?

The original one only 'timed' the left ventricle of my heart. After some testing, it was determined that I'd benefit with none with one more lead that wound around and times the right chambers as well. It also has built-in defibrilator function in case I have a MI event.

I got the original one back and have given it to an organization that implants them in needy people in 3rd world countries. It worked perfectly, just didn't perform the function I needed.

Jim

 

[Passepartout]

Sorry, but this is NOT the issue. CEO pay is but a tiny drop in the bucket.

Let's take the top one on your list: Pfizer's CEO compensation of $26.17M

Pfizer's total revenue for 2018 was 53.7 Billion. So the CEO's compensation was 0.049% of total revenue, which means that if the CEO took zero compensation and 100% of his salary was used to reduce the end-users' costs for Pfizer's drugs, there would only be a 0.049% price decrease to the consumer.

And you think this is the problem??? Think again.

Kurt

It isn't THE problem- but it's indicative of the greed of the whole 'healthcare industrial complex'. The whole industry is governed by shareholders who expect those stock dividends every quarter.

 

[pedro47]

I had to take my Aunt to the ER this past Friday evening. She is 96 years old. We were in the ER from 7:00PM Friday until 5:00 AM Saturday morning. She was dehydrate, needed a pint of blood and two (2) IV, plus several tests on her kidney functions, heart and on her high blood pressure..

I am very happy that she has the Federal Blue Cross and Blue Shield high option plan for federal spouses.
I am praying that her BC/BS hospitalization plan + her medicare will cover her bill.

After reading this article, I am waiting on her ER bill.

 

[Conan]

'Higher taxes', Conan? Probably, but zero insurance premiums, better care, longer life and protection from financial ruin wins out every time.

Jim

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tongue-in-cheek

 

[PigsDad]

It isn't THE problem- but it's indicative of the greed of the whole 'healthcare industrial complex'. The whole industry is governed by shareholders who expect those stock dividends every quarter.

I agree that there is excessive profits through the whole supply chain of healthcare, but I personally don't think it is out of line nor excessive to pay a CEO 0.049% of revenue for managing the company. But yet, as indicated by what you just posted, many (dare I say most) people think this is a major issue contributing to the price of healthcare. The numbers just don't support that assumption.

Kurt

 

[rickandcindy23]

I had to take my Aunt to the ER this past Friday evening. She is 96 years old. We were in the ER from 7:00PM Friday until 5:00 AM Saturday morning. She was dehydrate, needed a pint of blood and two (2) IV, plus several tests on her kidney functions, heart and on her high blood pressure..

I am very happy that she has the Federal Blue Cross and Blue Shield high option plan for federal spouses.
I am praying that her BC/BS hospitalization plan + her medicare will cover her bill.

After reading this article, I am waiting on her ER bill.

It should. My mother-in-law had an ER visit, and she didn't pay anything. She also stayed in continuing care for about 30 days and never had to pay a dime.

 

[Brett]

I agree that there is excessive profits through the whole supply chain of healthcare, but I personally don't think it is out of line nor excessive to pay a CEO 0.049% of revenue for managing the company. But yet, as indicated by what you just posted, many (dare I say most) people think this is a major issue contributing to the price of healthcare. The numbers just don't support that assumption.

Kurt

yes, CEO pay is just a factor in rising healthcare costs, there are many other (larger) reasons for healthcare costs

 

[pedro47]

It should. My mother-in-law had an ER visit, and she didn't pay anything. She also stayed in continuing care for about 30 days and never had to pay a dime.

rickandcindy23, I am praying you are correct.

 

[DrQ]

I predict this thread being locked

 

[Passepartout]

I predict this thread being locked

Really? Why? Nothing political. Simply factual- that Americans pay far, far, too much for medical care that (a) isn't the best in the world, and (b) doesn't protect the users from financial ruin. Nothing controversial about that.

 

[T-Dot-Traveller]

My wife was in the Ontario *( Canadian Province) hospital system for 6+ months / from early Dec 2018 to mid June 2019 (non terminal) and ,along the way she also had her gall bladder removed .

My only direct cash cost was for monthly parking passes .

*********
* there is no such thing as a “Canadian” healthcare system.

There is the Canada Health Act of 1984 that was predated by provincial - federal cost sharing over approximately the prior 35 years . The CHA basically transfers money to provinces if they follow certain rules .

In certain ways the healthcare system in Canada can be paralleled to the Interstate Highway System in the USA. The USA interstate system was built by the individual state governments -BUT with essential federal funding that also stipulates standards . ( The 1956 Highway Trust Fund Act - that dedicates federally collected fuel taxes to highway construction (and more recently mass transit).
Highways and roads remain administratively a state - county - city responsibility .

When British North American Act created Canada in 1867 - the federal government kept “ important “ functions like armies - treaties - and certain types of taxation to raise operating revenue .
Schools-roads- healthcare etc. we’re left to the provinces and/ or local government .
Healthcare therefore is a provincial responsibility .

The Canada Health Act stipulates that if a province allows “extra billing “by doctors - then the province does not get federal transfer payments for healthcare . VOILA - a simple single payer system . Doctors remain private contractors but can only receive payment for services from one source - the province in which they work. {ie- not from an individual patient or their proxy -ie- an insurance company}Hospitals are funded similarly - on a single payer / provincial funding formula .

Interesting trivia -
Wyoming was the last state to raise the drinking age to 21 in 1988 (and regulate driving speed on highways). It did so after finally deciding to accept federal highway trust fund money . The “drinking age” remains a state responsibility. When I was growing up in New York State the age was 18 . Today NO state has an age other than 21 - because Congress added that as a requirement in 1984 for states to get highway trust fund money .

more trivia -
The deemed “father” of provincially run healthcare in Canada is also the grandfather of 24’s - Jack Bauer (aka)Kiefer Sutherland . His father Donald was married to Shirley Douglas . Her dad was Tommy Douglas - premier of Saskatchewan from 1944-1961.
FYI - Saskatchewan has many farmers - who when they got sick back then ,had lots of valuable land , but no ready access to borrowing to pay hospital & doctors .
Many rural independent business farmers supported Premier Douglas .

more interesting trivia -
Ever wonder why - so many of those HGTV shows you love watching are made in Canada ?( hint - perhaps healthcare )
A lot of those “formula “shows on HGTV film a full season in a short time -often more than 1 a day.The budget per show is not hugh . The production company often hires most of the crew on short term contracts . While they work ,they make quite good money at union wages ( lighting - sound - electrical etc) ; when the show is done they go back to waiting tables - painting houses or whatever .
Key point - their healthcare for themselves and their families is not dependent on employment and so they are more likely to stay in the TV show / film production industry and for the (often Toronto based) industry there is a good supply of well trained available talent to hire for the next short term production project

My inference : in an increasingly “gig “economy - healthcare that is not based on
employment can be a partner in job creation and job growth .

.

 

[WVBaker]

TDT... quite the dissertation, thank you.

 

[Tia]

Anyone see 60 Minutes interview of Jamie Dimon of JPMorgan Chase with Lesley Stahl Nov 10th?

''Compensation for executives, CEOs, grew 940%, 940%, in the last 40 years. Your average worker, so middle class, middle class, grew 12%.''