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Helping my parents.

theo

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Done...

The one screaming question I have is, if your week and resort are worthless as you put it, why would this company want it?? They would be on the hook for the yearly MF's for every owner they transferred it from. Driving them into debt. So they are either going to not "finish" this transfer and keep your cash, or they are illegally transferring it to a made up "Viking ship" company that will never pay the MF's. Like it was stated resorts are aware of this and cracking down on the "dumping".
It puts all the other owners in a real bad spot if they have to start covering for a bunch of people who are now not covering their share of dues. Why not list it here for free? It has no valve to you, but you never know someone else's situation and maybe they live near this resort and could drive there easily and would like to acquire a week for free.
Not only is it the safest thing to do to not get scammed out of money, but it is the most ethical to do to not screw over the other owners as well.

I concur with everything you've stated but in all fairness, "wawacito" has indeed already listed the subject timeshare in the TUG Bargain Deals forum. In fact, "wawacito" has further offered to pay someone to take it.

I predict that this will ultimately be a "clean" transfer to a real, willing (and likely grateful) recipient, with no residual smell or uncertainty in the ownership transfer --- the way it should be done, IMnsHO.
 

Ridewithme38

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Even if a deed gets recorded, if a resort believes the new "grantee" to be a bogus LLC, or a shell corporation, or a non-existent individual, or an innocent homeless person innocently recruited into the scheme for a few bucks, the resort can simply choose to ignore the recorded instrument and continue to bill the current owner of record. There is clear indication lately that some resort HOA's with a competetent semi-retired attorney on their BOD are going to actively undertake to invalidate (i.e., have a court "void") bogus deeds to "Viking Ship" entities, just to make a public example out of some of these fraudulent activities and their practitioners.

There are those on TUG who will step forth (...despite no law degree) to indignantly proclaim that "the resort can't do that --- the new recorded deed makes it a done deal". Well, some resorts are already doing that. Whether or not that resort position is "legal" is ultimately a matter for the courtroom; not one which will be definitively resolved by endless discussion among anonymous non-attorneys on an Internet timeshare BBS...

Yes, they CAN bill the old owner and Yes, i can have my Oil Company Bill the old owner for the heating oil i've used since owning a house...But LEGALLY, the old owner doesn't have to pay, it's not even a matter for the courts...When/If it goes to collections, they will be unable to validate the debt, simply mailing a copy of the legally recorded deed to the collection company will invalidate it....

In order to invalid a deed they would have to PROVE beyond a doubt that both the previous owner and the current owner knowingly and with malice intended the transfer for the specific reason as to defraud....This is not an easy thing to prove....At BEST, they can prove that the new owners intentions are fraudulent, then all that happens is the deed returns to the resort...The same effect as if they had accepted a deed back

I don't see why a lawyer would be needed to understand this, its common sense...It's as simple as my example above, you can't bill the previous owner of a house for current bills, why would you think you can bill the previous owner of a TS for current bills?

There is no WAY i'd pay bills from a time frame i didn't own AND didn't have use of a piece of property...BUT if you're willing to, please let me know, i can happily have the electric and Oil company bill you instead of me for my bills!
 
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e.bram

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Not only that , but the HOA should not accept transfers to point trusts like Festiva, Innseanons, Wyndham Club Access etc , because if the go belly up they could devestate the finances of a TS. The PCCs could trying to do the same thing.(converfting to a points operation)
 

TheNoob

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The title definitely got transferred to an individual and not an LLC. Obviously I will know more in a couple of weeks at which time I will happily post the recorded deed for everybody to view.
 

wawacito

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Whether or not that resort position is "legal" or "appropriate" is ultimately a matter for the courtroom; not one which will ever actually be definitively resolved (or otherwise changed in any way) by endless discussion and circular reasoning exchanged among anonymous non-attorneys on an Internet timeshare BBS... :rolleyes:

Well said Fred ... er Theo. :clap:
 

wawacito

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It puts all the other owners in a real bad spot if they have to start covering for a bunch of people who are now not covering their share of dues. ...
Not only is it the safest thing to do to not get scammed out of money, but it is the most ethical to do to not screw over the other owners as well.

I believe the reason my MF's are so high and therefor the reason I have to bail is because SOOO many others at the resort have ALREADY done so. **I'm*** already being screwed. I believe that if I don't jump ship soon - others will - and then the MF's will just continue to get higher and higher. I understand that its probably not ethical to screw the other owners ... but if the choice is between me screwing them, or them screwing me ... sorry to say ... I think I'd rather jump ship first. :(
 

wawacito

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and finally ... to get things back on topic ...

yes TheNoob - please do post info as it becomes available. Thanks so much for helping us all out.
 

Cheryl20772

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Hi all, I received the recorded deed back. I don't see a way to post it though?
First you need to scan the deed pages into a computer file which will probably be either a .doc, .pdf or .jpg file. Then you would attach the pertinent files to a post using the "Attach Files" Manage Attachments button in the "Additional Options" section below the forum "reply to thread" box used to make a post. I'm not sure all the pages would be needed...perhaps just the first and the last, but those requesting this may want to see all. Hope this helps you out.
 

wawacito

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we can't post - because we don't have that button - because we are "guest"s and not paid members?
 

DeniseM

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It's actually:

"Post Reply" (then scroll down to the bottom) > "Manage Attachments"

(ooops - Ride beat me to it)

But as guests, you may not see these buttons - I'm not sure.
 
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Karen G

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we can't post - because we don't have that button - because we are "guest"s and not paid members?

Exactly, I don't see that button. I've already scanned the deed into a pdf file.

Go to "reply to thread" and scroll down below the box where you would type your reply. Keep scrolling past the two buttons that say "Submit Reply" and "Preview Post."

Do you see a blue bar that goes across the whole page and says in white "Additional Options"? Look at the box that says Attach Files and click on Manage Attachments. Click on that button and another small box opens that says "Upload file from your computer." Click choose file. Then from your files click on the file you've saved the deed in. The title of your file should then appear in the box and you can click upload.

Ride and Denise beat me to it!
 

TheNoob

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All I see is this on the bottom:

You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may edit your posts
 

Karen G

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All I see is this on the bottom:

You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may edit your posts

Well, I guess you need to become a member so that you can post those attachments.:) Another benefit to membership!
 

rapmarks

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my home resort passed rules that if yu sell to a transfer company, the next years maintenace fees must be included. Any sale or transfer of your timeshare has to be approved by the management company 30 days in advance.
 

Ridewithme38

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my home resort passed rules that if yu sell to a transfer company, the next years maintenace fees must be included. Any sale or transfer of your timeshare has to be approved by the management company 30 days in advance.

How do they know that the company you sold to is a Transfer company and not someone with a personal trust or LLC connected because of their age or company?
 

timeos2

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Not only that , but the HOA should not accept transfers to point trusts like Festiva, Innseanons, Wyndham Club Access etc , because if the go belly up they could devestate the finances of a TS. The PCCs could trying to do the same thing.(converfting to a points operation)

This is actually a good point. The use of a points based or club system of any type can be a double edged sword. On one hand the new owner - could be a PCC but is far more likely an established points or club system such as Vacation Internationale or Bluegreen or Diamond Resorts Club, there are others - comes in an offers a great deal to buy or at least take over annual maintenance on delinquent or foreclosed weeks at a resort. It may generate sales income but definitely means payment for previously unpaid weeks.

The resort is giddy - suddenly a check shows up annually for XX weeks -paid in full - and an easy way to ensure collection on all those weeks. So they sell / give them more. And more. Suddenly the resort has unknowingly become addicted to that now massive annual payment from the big system for it's very survival. It has occurred at one seasonal, eastern resort I know of that when the system then decided it was going to stop payment on all those ownerships (use/demand from the members failed to meet anticipated numbers thus the fees were going to waste with unused time just as previous owners apparently found and the resort was facing a potentially high cost special assessment for needed work) the resort was literally forced to close down. They managed to salvage the day by combining with another resort. That wouldn't always be possible of course.

The bottom line is like a drug the easy money of the big systems can lull any resort into complacency. They may not realize (or care) that the balance of power can shift from the individual owners to a system or that they are at risk of collapse if the system were to fold or simply stop making those payments. What started out as a great benefit and savior to the Association can strangle it in the end as some Timesharing Today articles have so correctly pointed out.

Everything in moderation is great advice even for cash strapped timeshare associations. Too much of anything may result in unintended results.
 

wawacito

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let us PLEASE keep this thread ON TOPIC and not let it run away into a LONG argument
 

DeniseM

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let us PLEASE keep this thread ON TOPIC and not let it run away into a LONG argument

We specialize in long arguments here! ;)
 

Ridewithme38

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Ahh! So THIS is how we should close down Timeshares that are no longer valid! Anyone wanna help me open 'Vacation Club Viking Ship, LLC' ?

This is actually a good point. The use of a points based or club system of any type can be a double edged sword. On one hand the new owner - could be a PCC but is far more likely an established points or club system such as Vacation Internationale or Bluegreen or Diamond Resorts Club, there are others - comes in an offers a great deal to buy or at least take over annual maintenance on delinquent or foreclosed weeks at a resort. It may generate sales income but definitely means payment for previously unpaid weeks.

The resort is giddy - suddenly a check shows up annually for XX weeks -paid in full - and an easy way to ensure collection on all those weeks. So they sell / give them more. And more. Suddenly the resort has unknowingly become addicted to that now massive annual payment from the big system for it's very survival. It has occurred at one seasonal, eastern resort I know of that when the system then decided it was going to stop payment on all those ownerships (use/demand from the members failed to meet anticipated numbers thus the fees were going to waste with unused time just as previous owners apparently found and the resort was facing a potentially high cost special assessment for needed work) the resort was literally forced to close down. They managed to salvage the day by combining with another resort. That wouldn't always be possible of course.

The bottom line is like a drug the easy money of the big systems can lull any resort into complacency. They may not realize (or care) that the balance of power can shift from the individual owners to a system or that they are at risk of collapse if the system were to fold or simply stop making those payments. What started out as a great benefit and savior to the Association can strangle it in the end as some Timesharing Today articles have so correctly pointed out.

Everything in moderation is great advice even for cash strapped timeshare associations. Too much of anything may result in unintended results.
 
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