HELP in valuing my timeshare

[fmctimeshare]

HELP! My parents, who are elderly, purchased a timeshare (Grandview Las Vegas) in 2008. Now my mom is in a nursing home with alzheimer's disease and the family is applying for Medicaid. Their timeshare counts as an asset but I am unable to determine the value. I have spoken to a real estate agent in Las Vegas, but his appraisers have no way to appraise a timeshare and they cannot find any recorded sales records for individual Timeshare sales. The timeshare company said the value is the same as when it was purchased, but based on all I have read and reserached on the web, resale values are significantly lower than the purchase price.

I would appreciate any siggestions for how I might figure out a value for the timeshare and quickly our application will be submitted on teh 31st....

 

[MOXJO7282]

Can you provide more details of the timeshare? Do you know the season, is it a high demand platinum week? Or the room size, is it a 2BDRM? That will determine value but as an FYI unless its a prime season 2BDRM its most likely worth very little, if anything.

 

[MOXJO7282]

I just checked ebay for sales at that resort and it had a few from $1025 to $2. Those appear to be 1BDRM units so depending on what yours is it might fetch a little more.

 

[ronparise]

here are the results of 4 recent auctions on ebay

there are three ongoing auctions you might want to watch here

 

[tschwa2]

Because the over abundance of timeshares in Las Vegas not all TS units have any value.

At the Grandview the ones that have some value are the once that have been converted to RCI points. If the points to Maintenance Fees are over a $.01 per point then even these have no real resale value. If the points are just under a penny a point then there would be some resale value. If the points are in the $0.006 range then it may be worth $1000-$2000 for annuals and biennials. Triennials would probably be a little lower.

Fixed week 52 may also have some value. These estimates are based off ebay prices and are also based on making a fairly quick sale. If you list on several low cost sites and are patient (may take several months to a year or more) you may be able to get higher. Some weeks may have a negative value where you would have to pay someone to take it. Be very careful if you go that route and try to sell or give it away for free first because often companies that charge a high upfront fee to sell your week, list your week or "free you of your week" are scams.

Here is a link to recent EBAY sales and rentals. You may notice that many did not sell or rent. If you are checking Ebay make sure to check completed listings not just what they list for. Also be aware that what you see at resale sites are often just asking prices. The high ones will sit forever. Unfortunately resale sites don't tell you what units ultimately sold for.

Good luck. Hope you have a good one that you can unload easily if you don't want it.

 

[Passepartout]

The number they want to see is what amount it would bring on an open market.

The easiest way I know to get a basic idea is to go to Ebay. Sign on with your username/password. Put the name of the timeshare (Grandview Las Vegas 1BR (or 2) ) hit enter. Down the left side you will find 'Completed Auctions.' Click there and you will find actual sales. Not asking prices. Actual sales. You can't get a more accurate feel for what your folks 'asset' is no longer worth.

If you want to keep it in the family, you can transfer it down a generation, (for a few hunderd$) but between us, IMO you can rent at Grandview for less than annual maintenance fees. I'd offer to deed it back to the Developer. Tell 'em it will save them from foreclosing on it.

I am sorry for your parents' disability, and especially for your Mom's Alz. It's a horrible disease.

Welcome to TUG

Jim

 

[fmctimeshare]

Value Help

Thanks so much for the tips so far. I will check out the ebay auctions. It is a 2 bedroom unit -- week 29, first week in August.

 

[AwayWeGo]

Were The Timeshare Company Person's Lips Moving ?

HELP! My parents, who are elderly, purchased a timeshare (Grandview Las Vegas) in 2008. Now my mom is in a nursing home with alzheimer's disease and the family is applying for Medicaid. Their timeshare counts as an asset but I am unable to determine the value. I have spoken to a real estate agent in Las Vegas, but his appraisers have no way to appraise a timeshare and they cannot find any recorded sales records for individual Timeshare sales. The timeshare company said the value is the same as when it was purchased, but based on all I have read and reserached on the web, resale values are significantly lower than the purchase price.

I would appreciate any siggestions for how I might figure out a value for the timeshare and quickly our application will be submitted on teh 31st.

Nothing that the timeshare companies sell at full retail price is worth the money -- not even at substantial discounts off the retail price -- & that goes for Grandview At Las Vegas right along with all the rest.

Many timeshares are worth little or nothing these days. The fact that the original buyers paid the timeshare companies many thousands for them means nothing.

A 1BR Grandview At Las Vegas unit recently sold on eBay for $102.50. Click here for that.

A biennial 1BR "points" unit there recently sold for $1,027.59. Click here for that.

Two other eBay Grandview units got no bids at all -- none. One of those (a 2BR unit) had an opening bid of $1 (no reserve). The other started at $9,500.

The mandatory maintenance fees that must be paid each & every year may well be for more money than the timeshare unit would bring via eBay, meaning that the ownership is more of a liability than an asset.

Grandview is a plenty nice timeshare -- The Chief Of Staff & I had a nice time in a 1BR unit there last October. Unfortunately for people trying to dispose of unwanted ownerships, there's not much value & the closest thing to a ready market for them, eBay, doesn't always produce a sale.

There are lots of hornswogglers & bamboozlers out there trying to separate people from their good green money by claiming that they have buyers ready & waiting to pay cash for their timeshares. All the owners have to do is pay a few thousand dollars up front for "appraisal" or "market analysis" or "marketing fees" or "administrative expenses," etc., & then the deal will go through. All those up-front offers are bogus. Ripoffs. Scams. State attorney generals are cracking down, specially in Florida, but there are still plenty of up-fronters out there keeping the scam going.

There are also "relief" companies out there who say they'll get you out of your timeshare ownership for only a few thousand dollars. Trouble is, once the money is paid, the ownership may or may not actually get transferred to a new owner. Plus, if you're willing to give away your timeshare, you can do it yourself, & know it's been done, for thousands less than the "relief" operators charge.

Full Disclosure: In recent years The Chief Of Staff & I gave away four -- 4 -- timeshares that we no longer wanted to keep. In view of the lack of demand for timeshares, we decided it was better to give'm away for nothing than to try to sell'm for next to nothing. Timeshares are great. We love timeshare vacationing. We plan to keep on going to timeshares, our own & other people's via exchange & bargain rentals. The cold hard truth, however, is that most timeshare deeds have no or next to no market value. So it goes.

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​

 

[AwayWeGo]

Here is a link to recent EBAY sales.

Some of those are rentals.

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​

 

[FractionalTraveler]

What is the purpose of the valuation? is it for asset liquidation, estate planning, taxation?

I would make the valuation only in light of the purpose for the monitization of the asset.

 

[andex]

I am assuming that you want the lowest value possible. If this is case this is what I would do.
First I would ask if Grandview if they want to buy it back by email. When that doesn’t work print the email.
Then I would print all the comparable: Ebay ending sale price (preferably the lower ones). As many as possible!!
Then I would contact a few resellers to get an estimate on the cost associated for them to take your parents unit.
Final sale – cost = Fair market value!!

 

[theo]

An unasked / unanswered question remains...

I have no personal knowledge about Medicaid qualification, but since the government is involved in that financial evaluation and decision process, I am prompted to wonder whether the government would or will accept or acknowledge "completed eBay auctions" as being a valid indicator of value.

Completed eBay auctions usually reflect rock bottom current market prices for timeshare resales. That said however, the question remains whether or not the evaluating governmental entities will accept (or even acknowledge) completed eBay auctions as valid for their particular purposes.

My own initial thought would be to just dump the timeshares for whatever little money they might fetch (...which may very well be next to nothing) and thereby promptly eliminate both the "asset" (and the valuation question) immediately and permanently.

 

[richardm]

There are two methods you can use to try to have this timeshare reclassified..

Obtain a written comparative market analysis from a real estate broker who specializes in timeshare resorts- showing that the expected resale value is basically nil.. I've prepared hundreds of these for both individuals and for law firms (I charge $49). You may be able to find a timeshare broker who will give you a formal written CMA for less or even for free. Since the timeshare is located in Nevada, a broker licensed in Nevada may give you a better chance of acceptance by your case worker.

You'll need to submit this document to the case worker, and hope they see reason. Most do, but occasionally you will deal with one that insists a certified appraisal is required.. If this is the case, you then have to pay for a certified appraisal (approx $400)- but you need to be sure the individual you hire is knowledgeable about timeshares.

Even if you have to go the appraisal route, it is still easily worth the expense if it makes a big difference in the evaluation of her assets. Like anything involving government bureaucracy, you'll have to be willing to keep pushing- but these situations can be resolved.. They just take time and persistence.

*****

For others who are reading this discussion.. This situation is easily avoided with simple estate and probate planning. Take an hour to discuss your timeshare holdings with your family attorney and it can save you and your family countless hours of frustration in the future.

It is a relatively simple process to create a trust or an LLC where you can place all of your timeshare holdings. (Have the attorney discuss the process with the resort management company to ensure they are aware that this "deeding" is being done for estate purposes and is not a resale transfer to avoid any "resale penalties and restrictions" that many developers impose.)

I do not normally recommend that timeshares be included along with the rest of your personal property. I've found it is easier to create a distinct trust or LLC that only contains your timeshare portfolio.

In the future, if you need to transfer ownership quickly for any reason- it can be done with a simple filing to change either the ownership of the LLC or name a new trustee. You may also find that this strategy eliminates the probate requirements upon death that can be more costly than the timeshares themselves..

AGAIN- my recommendation is that you speak with an attorney to ensure any steps you take are done properly.

 

[FractionalTraveler]

There are two methods you can use to try to have this timeshare reclassified..

Obtain a written comparative market analysis from a real estate broker who specializes in timeshare resorts- showing that the expected resale value is basically nil.. I've prepared hundreds of these for both individuals and for law firms (I charge $49). You may be able to find a timeshare broker who will give you a formal written CMA for less or even for free. Since the timeshare is located in Nevada, a broker licensed in Nevada may give you a better chance of acceptance by your case worker.

You'll need to submit this document to the case worker, and hope they see reason. Most do, but occasionally you will deal with one that insists a certified appraisal is required.. If this is the case, you then have to pay for a certified appraisal (approx $400)- but you need to be sure the individual you hire is knowledgeable about timeshares.

Even if you have to go the appraisal route, it is still easily worth the expense if it makes a big difference in the evaluation of her assets. Like anything involving government bureaucracy, you'll have to be willing to keep pushing- but these situations can be resolved.. They just take time and persistence.

*****

For others who are reading this discussion.. This situation is easily avoided with simple estate and probate planning. Take an hour to discuss your timeshare holdings with your family attorney and it can save you and your family countless hours of frustration in the future.

It is a relatively simple process to create a trust or an LLC where you can place all of your timeshare holdings. (Have the attorney discuss the process with the resort management company to ensure they are aware that this "deeding" is being done for estate purposes and is not a resale transfer to avoid any "resale penalties and restrictions" that many developers impose.)

I do not normally recommend that timeshares be included along with the rest of your personal property. I've found it is easier to create a distinct trust or LLC that only contains your timeshare portfolio.

In the future, if you need to transfer ownership quickly for any reason- it can be done with a simple filing to change either the ownership of the LLC or name a new trustee. You may also find that this strategy eliminates the probate requirements upon death that can be more costly than the timeshares themselves..

AGAIN- my recommendation is that you speak with an attorney to ensure any steps you take are done properly.

Thank you! I found this to be very informative and helpful.

 

[andex]

I would agree with RichardM. Probably the correct way of doing it?
However I would still try it the other way. I would argue that all properties sold through eBay are between non arms length parties. Therefore have to reflect FMV. Some properties like Disney sell for a higher value.
If the resort wont take it back for nothing. (think about it!! once your house is paid you would have no problem giving it away!!) And the resellers charge you to take it, you should have a good case.
My concerns would be if you start a formal evaluation. What stops the government employee to start asking you to do spend more money to evaluate other assets. I would wing it! if that doesnt work see RichardM post.
Good luck let us know how it turn out?

 

[theo]

I couldn't disagree more...

However I would still try it the other way. I would argue that all properties sold through eBay are between non arms length parties. Therefore have to reflect FMV. <snip> I would wing it!...

No personal offense or disrespect intended, but since you are apparently Canadian you are perhaps unfamiliar with the serious impact / implications of U.S. Medicaid eligibilty in a situation such as that described by and facing the OP.

In brief, the Medicaid eligibility examination process essentially determines who is financially responsible for paying the $10,000 -$12,000 per month cost of nursing home care (i.e., the government, or the family). If you were personally facing that cost as an out of pocket expense for a family member, I'm guessing that you likely would not "wing it". Accordingly, your advice for someone else to do so is ill-considered, at best.

 

[andex]

No offence taken. FWIW if it was my parent I would argue that it is not an Asset but a Liability. Even if they dont own a mortgage?
If they cant use it, and it holds no resale value and it cost my parent money every year how can it be an asset?
Your right i dont pretend to understand The US laws but that said i deal with alot of stuff on this side of the boarder. No way would i spend lot$ of time and money on something that i might not have to. If the goverment would insist that it holds a greater value then i would seek Profe$$ional advice.
I would also consider exercising the power of attourney dumping it for a buck and if i really wanted the time share i would by a new one. NOT WITHOUT checking with an attourney first.

 

[Pmuppet]

Based on ebay sales, you would be lucky to get $1,000 for the timeshare with extensive marketing (necessary to find someone to pay over market value).

I agree with the others who recommended trying to give it back as a quick claim deed. Respectable companies should take it back from the elderly. They likely sold it to your folks for thousands more than it was worth.

So, they should be happy to get it back and move on (with your parents money in their pocket).

If they dont, there is always defaulting. I think Nevada is a no recourse state, but that should be discussed.

Bottom line, dont give them another cent unless someone in your family wants to assume the timeshare (which i dont recommend as there are much better options out there).

Good luck and keep us posted.

 

[puppymommo]

Thanks so much for the tips so far. I will check out the ebay auctions. It is a 2 bedroom unit -- week 29, first week in August.

Week 29 is not the first week of August. I own a week 29 and it is the third week of July. This year it is July 20-27 (Friday check in).

Good luck with disposing of this and getting your mother the care she needs. I know this is a very stressful process.

 

[Carolinian]

eBay, since it started being flooded by the PCC's some years ago is the bargain basement of timeshare, and should be considered a floor only not an average price. On the OBX of NC, for example, for summer weeks the average actual prices are about two to two and a half times what those weeks bring on eBay. YMMV in other areas as all timeshare resale markets are local.

The first place I would go to determine real prices is not eBay but county land records. The prices recorded may be more accurate in some than others, and you will need to determine that for your area. In North Carolina, for example on the Outer Banks, where there is a local land transfer tax collected by a special office that requires a sworn affidavit as to amount paid, the prices are usually real, but on the Crystal Coast where the Register of Deeds merely asks verbally how many state tax stamps you want, the numbers are much less reliable. Then you will need to find out if they are avalible online in a useful format.

Because it is these days always very much at the low end of timeshare sales, eBay is a great place to buy but a terrible place to sell.

The number they want to see is what amount it would bring on an open market.

The easiest way I know to get a basic idea is to go to Ebay. Sign on with your username/password. Put the name of the timeshare (Grandview Las Vegas 1BR (or 2) ) hit enter. Down the left side you will find 'Completed Auctions.' Click there and you will find actual sales. Not asking prices. Actual sales. You can't get a more accurate feel for what your folks 'asset' is no longer worth.

If you want to keep it in the family, you can transfer it down a generation, (for a few hunderd$) but between us, IMO you can rent at Grandview for less than annual maintenance fees. I'd offer to deed it back to the Developer. Tell 'em it will save them from foreclosing on it.

I am sorry for your parents' disability, and especially for your Mom's Alz. It's a horrible disease.

Welcome to TUG

Jim

 

[TUGBrian]

This resort has a good number of price history records in the TUG resort review database as well: (all echo what is being said above however)

http://tug2.com/RnR/TabSalesHistory.aspx?Tab=S&ResortGUID=23df8975-e59b-4137-80ba-d243e7344b24

 

[Tamaradarann]

Inherited Timeshares

There are two methods you can use to try to have this timeshare reclassified..

Obtain a written comparative market analysis from a real estate broker who specializes in timeshare resorts- showing that the expected resale value is basically nil.. I've prepared hundreds of these for both individuals and for law firms (I charge $49). You may be able to find a timeshare broker who will give you a formal written CMA for less or even for free. Since the timeshare is located in Nevada, a broker licensed in Nevada may give you a better chance of acceptance by your case worker.

You'll need to submit this document to the case worker, and hope they see reason. Most do, but occasionally you will deal with one that insists a certified appraisal is required.. If this is the case, you then have to pay for a certified appraisal (approx $400)- but you need to be sure the individual you hire is knowledgeable about timeshares.

Even if you have to go the appraisal route, it is still easily worth the expense if it makes a big difference in the evaluation of her assets. Like anything involving government bureaucracy, you'll have to be willing to keep pushing- but these situations can be resolved.. They just take time and persistence.

*****

For others who are reading this discussion.. This situation is easily avoided with simple estate and probate planning. Take an hour to discuss your timeshare holdings with your family attorney and it can save you and your family countless hours of frustration in the future.

It is a relatively simple process to create a trust or an LLC where you can place all of your timeshare holdings. (Have the attorney discuss the process with the resort management company to ensure they are aware that this "deeding" is being done for estate purposes and is not a resale transfer to avoid any "resale penalties and restrictions" that many developers impose.)

I do not normally recommend that timeshares be included along with the rest of your personal property. I've found it is easier to create a distinct trust or LLC that only contains your timeshare portfolio.

In the future, if you need to transfer ownership quickly for any reason- it can be done with a simple filing to change either the ownership of the LLC or name a new trustee. You may also find that this strategy eliminates the probate requirements upon death that can be more costly than the timeshares themselves..

AGAIN- my recommendation is that you speak with an attorney to ensure any steps you take are done properly.

Hi Richard,

Why to you not recommend that timeshares be listed with other property in a Trust? Also, can the relatives that inherit a timeshare not accept that part of the inheritance and, therefore, the liability of maintenance and taxes?

 

[richardm]

Inheritance can be declined during probate..

Hi Richard,

Why to you not recommend that timeshares be listed with other property in a Trust? Also, can the relatives that inherit a timeshare not accept that part of the inheritance and, therefore, the liability of maintenance and taxes?

If you are in this type of situation, you should consult with a qualified probate attorney licensed in the state where the timeshare resort is located. Your legal counsel will be able to provide you with instruction on what is required to decline all or part of an inheritance.

My recommendation to keep timeshares divided from other personal property is for the purpose of future transfer. Most developers are this point place restrictions on resale buyers. However, if the ownership is held in an independent LLC or trust- usage rights can easily be transferred to a new manager or trustee without requiring a change of ownership.. Thereby eliminating any resale restrictions and in turn making the timeshare ownership more marketable and liquid.

 

[Tia]

Somewhere it was recently posted on TUG in another thread that the IRS values timeshares as holding no value.

 

[richardm]

Don't believe everything you read.....

Somewhere it was recently posted on TUG in another thread that the IRS values timeshares as holding no value.

Anyone with probate questions should always consult with an attorney...

Anyone with tax questions should consult with their CPA or with a tax attorney...

Anyone searching for general information on a timeshare related subject so start their research on TUG or on TS4M's- and then be prepared to verify what they have learned.

People post wrong information on Tug all the time.. Tug is a great place to start learning, but just like any open source resource (like wikipedia) you always want to take what you read with a healthy dose of skepticism.

AND YES- (before anyone takes a virtual swing at me - that certainly includes anything that I type onto these discussions!