Help Deciding to join DC or not

[Beefnot]

The decision whether to join seems to incorporate one of the following:

(1) The cost of joining DC plus the annual program fee is less than the a la carte fees you currently pay today, amortized over some reasonable time horizon (e.g., 15 years)
(2) Although the cost of joining DC plus the annual program fee is greater than the a la carte fees you currently pay today, amortized over some reasonable time horizon (e.g., 15 years), the differential is negligible enough such that rationale (3), (4), or (5) are deciding factors
(3) The amount of travel provided using the DC exceeds that available through other current traditional methods
(4) Having the flexibility of the points system outweighs the cost of joining DC, and you plan to exercise the option
(5) Having the flexibility of the points system outweighs the cost of joining DC, even if you never exercise the points option
(6) The time And effort spent assessing whether to join or not join is really a headache, so just make a gut decision and don't look back

 

[Beefnot]

Another couple questions: As a DC member, can I still get an XYZ extra week with II when doing an exchange?
I know the $89 annual fee with II is eliminated, but what about fees for Getaways and exchanges? (sorry if I am not up on this information)

Thanks,
Jeff

I believe you can still use II the same way you do today, but without paying traditional exchange fees, when trading to another Marriott. Any bonus exchanges and getaways will be business as usual. The "free" lunch only goes so far.

 

[dioxide45]

The decision whether to join seems to incorporate one of the following:

(1) The cost of joining DC plus the annual program fee is less than the a la carte fees you currently pay today, amortized over some reasonable time horizon (e.g., 15 years).

I know you provided it as am example, but I think you have to amortize over a much shorter time period. I would think more like 5 years. You want to make the investment back fairly quickly. Who knows how the fee structure might change in the future. Marriott could make changes down the road to the program that make recouping the initial enrollment and annual fee investment impossible.

 

[Beefnot]

I know you provided it as am example, but I think you have to amortize over a much shorter time period. I would think more like 5 years. You want to make the investment back fairly quickly. Who knows how the fee structure might change in the future. Marriott could make changes down the road to the program that make recouping the initial enrollment and annual fee investment impossible.

I personally agree. Some folks are much more lberal ih their rationale, but realistically it is risky to forecast beyond five, mayyybe 10 years, when dealing with such uncontrollable variables, especially when the variables are under the control of a for-profit enterprise.

 

[wvacations]

Something that can happen however, if MVCI gets a controlling interest in the resorts, could they force the dissolve of the resort and HOA? If so, they could force the sale and buy it at auction. Then they would have possession of all those deeds and be able to place them all in the trust.

.

The HOA does not hold or own the deeds. Owners own the deeds. The HOA only has oversight authority to make sure the property is maintained and the funds are protected. Disolving the HOA would in way force any one to sell their deed at auction.

 

[SueDonJ]

I believe you can still use II the same way you do today, but without paying traditional exchange fees, when trading to another Marriott. Any bonus exchanges and getaways will be business as usual. The "free" lunch only goes so far.

Yes, the old/individual and new/corporate II accounts work exactly the same, so you have the same access to Getaways and XYZ's. I expect, too, that the II fees for XYZ's and Getaways would not be covered by the DC Club Dues. But you might get lucky - two TUGgers have reported that they were not charged the fees for XYZ's. Nice if you can get it, no way to fight for it if you can't.

 

[wvacations]

Deleted do to mistakenly posted twice

 

[SueDonJ]

The decision whether to join seems to incorporate one of the following:

(1) The cost of joining DC plus the annual program fee is less than the a la carte fees you currently pay today, amortized over some reasonable time horizon (e.g., 15 years)
(2) Although the cost of joining DC plus the annual program fee is greater than the a la carte fees you currently pay today, amortized over some reasonable time horizon (e.g., 15 years), the differential is negligible enough such that rationale (3), (4), or (5) are deciding factors
(3) The amount of travel provided using the DC exceeds that available through other current traditional methods
(4) Having the flexibility of the points system outweighs the cost of joining DC, and you plan to exercise the option
(5) Having the flexibility of the points system outweighs the cost of joining DC, even if you never exercise the points option
(6) The time And effort spent assessing whether to join or not join is really a headache, so just make a gut decision and don't look back

I know you provided it as am example, but I think you have to amortize over a much shorter time period. I would think more like 5 years. You want to make the investment back fairly quickly. Who knows how the fee structure might change in the future. Marriott could make changes down the road to the program that make recouping the initial enrollment and annual fee investment impossible.

I think that if you're looking at just the financials, somewhere in there you need to add in the 800 Bonus Points that you're given upon enrollment. In some cases the enrollment fee is completely offset by usage of those points, but any offset is better than nothing.

 

[korndoc]

Sorry to be so uninformed, but are the 800 points only used for exchanges, added to the value of my timeshare?
Jeff

 

[dioxide45]

I think that if you're looking at just the financials, somewhere in there you need to add in the 800 Bonus Points that you're given upon enrollment. In some cases the enrollment fee is completely offset by usage of those points, but any offset is better than nothing.

True, those PlusPoints do have some value. For our Marco Island stay it appears to be about $600 using the MOD discount. Given that I can't exchange for Marco Island or buy a getaway. Of course if I didn't have those 800 PlusPoints, I would probably book a couple nights at the hotel, though that is almost as much. More likely I wouldn't' go at all and stay two extra nights in Orlando at $80 a night. So I find it difficult to assign a value to those 800 PlusPoints.

Of course I will probably give them the $600 value for my calculation on break even on the enrollment fee.

 

[SueDonJ]

Something that can happen however, if MVCI gets a controlling interest in the resorts, could they force the dissolve of the resort and HOA? If so, they could force the sale and buy it at auction. Then they would have possession of all those deeds and be able to place them all in the trust.

I really don't see something this extreme happening. Marriott can seem to get inventory that they need at will as long as it is available somewhere in the system, they don't need ultimate control.

I do expect them to offer some type of legacy to trust conversion in the future if you buy #,### number of trust points in addition to the conversion. Probably more so at resorts weak in the trust than those where a glut exists.

The HOA does not hold or own the deeds. Owners own the deeds. The HOA only has oversight authority to make sure the property is maintained and the funds are protected. Disolving the HOA would in way force any one to sell their deed at auction.

Even if that one particular scenario is impossible, Marriott has so many built-in protections for itself in the governing docs for Weeks - they've made it easy enough and cost-beneficial for them to walk away from the resorts while making it extremely difficult for the owners to exert any measurable influence over Marriott. In my opinion, they're not going to jeopardize our Weeks ownerships in any of the ways that they're able, unless/until their business structure and/or their cash earnings are threatened. If that day comes, I'm convinced that we owners would be powerless to stop them from dissolving the Timeshare Declaration or Management Agreement. But if that day comes, it won't matter if our Weeks are enrolled or not because while the Weeks docs govern the individual resorts' set-ups, the governing docs of the DC stipulate in several places that if an Exchange (Enrolled Week) Member's ownership ceases, so does that Member's inclusion in the DC.

I agree with Dioxide that they've set up the DC such that they're able to manipulate Weeks, II and DC inventory in order to ensure a measure of success for their new system, and as long as that's not threatened we don't have cause to worry. I also agree that somewhere down the line they'll be offering us the opportunity to permanently exchange our Weeks for DC Points, but (it goes without saying?) any such exchange will be more favorable for Marriott.

 

[SueDonJ]

Sorry to be so uninformed, but are the 800 points only used for exchanges, added to the value of my timeshare?
Jeff

(copied from a PM response to Jeff)

You can use the 800 Points separately from whatever you do with your Week. This is the DC Points Chart - look through it to figure out where and when you'd want to use them. For example, looking at the first resort page, this year you'd be able to cover 4 nights at Boston's Custom House between Nov 16 and Dec 20 on any nights but Friday or Saturday. The most common uses of the 800 Bonus Points that TUGgers have talked about are, picking a drive-to location for a short 3 or 4 night stay, or adding a few days onto an existing Weeks reservation whether it's at the same resort or one that's along the travel route. Every resort has different Points requirements so it might take creative thinking and time spent searching. Once you've picked a few different choices you can call in or use your my-vacationclub.com account to check availability.

 

[SueDonJ]

True, those PlusPoints do have some value. For our Marco Island stay it appears to be about $600 using the MOD discount. Given that I can't exchange for Marco Island or buy a getaway. Of course if I didn't have those 800 PlusPoints, I would probably book a couple nights at the hotel, though that is almost as much. More likely I wouldn't' go at all and stay two extra nights in Orlando at $80 a night. So I find it difficult to assign a value to those 800 PlusPoints.

Of course I will probably give them the $600 value for my calculation on break even on the enrollment fee.

I think that's what Don (the CPA) calls Creative Accounting? :hysterical:

 

[byebye]

DC Points Bonus

I'm still on the fence about DC. What I was wondering is if anyone negotiated a deal with MVCI about getting a few hundred points as an incentive to joining? I'm not talking about the 800 bonus pts. but lets say 200pts. to keep forever. I currently have a total of 6300 pts if I enroll but I would like to get to Premier status and that would require an additional 200 pts. I don't want to spend $2k to join and then I think the minimum purchase would be around $2.5k for 250 pts. So did anyone negotiate a deal?

 

[mjm1]

Based on our experience, they won't negotiate. In fact, your situation is one reason they would say you should buy points. Unfortunately, the minimum purchase is 1500 points, although someone reported recently that they were offered an opportunity to buy only 1000. At any rate, I don't think they will let you buy only 250 points. Hwwever, it wouldn't hurt to ask.

 

[rthib]

No dice on 250, I have asked as I am similar close.

If you say no to 1500 points, they will, just this one time, let you purchase 1000 points. (of course the same offer each time).

There is some incentive you get for 1500 that you do not get at 1000 and of course at 2000 there are more incentives.

After reflection though,
I am not sure the advantages of Premiere status are that great as the main thing is the ability to book a week at 13 months with points, but if you are going to book a week, then week usage is better deal.

The main advantage of DC is the M-TH usage or not having to pay the week/II skim if you need less than 7 days.

You also get access to Ritz but those are expense points in my opinion

 

[Cobra1950]

Interesting blog. Our situation is a lot like so many other Legacy owners, we have ignored the DC program and I certainly have been critical of Marriott for abandoning us over the last several years. Several factors seem now to be forcing me (and many others I am sure) to make a decision yes or no. Both the $595 joining fee going to X thousand $ in June and the obvious manipulation of the II online inventory (not much Marriott left anymore) we suspect by Marriott make me revisit the DC issue.
In our case one of the three weeks we own (all purchased directly from Marriott) is a Bronze week at Summittwatch and Marriott has told us already it has no value to them and would not be part of any DC program, so we will need to keep our II membership, so no savings there. In reality this week has supplied many good flexchange trades in the past. As to any DC advantage, we do not need to pay for the trade flexibility so we see no advantages at all. In general, other than the Bronze week, we pretty much use our units ourselves and place little value in the DC program.
We are at the Grand Chateau next week and have a DC presentation scheduled so I will hear it all again, and any comments any TUGers have on our situation will be welcomed.

 

[pwrshift]

Don't get too excited about the current 'join us now' deal of no fees for what you used to pay. Marriott has always been fee hungry and once they feel they've got all the owner conversions they're going to get, the fees will probably reappear...and fast. The first indicator of this to me is the threat to force non- member owners to pay up now or pay more later. Old habits never die...

 

[Beefnot]

Don't get too excited about the current 'join us now' deal of no fees for what you used to pay. Marriott has always been fee hungry and once they feel they've got all the owner conversions they're going to get, the fees will probably reappear...and fast. The first indicator of this to me is the threat to force non- member owners to pay up now or pay more later. Old habits never die...

Maybe just like disappearing developer subsidies and skyrocketing MFs?

 

[dioxide45]

I'm still on the fence about DC. What I was wondering is if anyone negotiated a deal with MVCI about getting a few hundred points as an incentive to joining? I'm not talking about the 800 bonus pts. but lets say 200pts. to keep forever. I currently have a total of 6300 pts if I enroll but I would like to get to Premier status and that would require an additional 200 pts. I don't want to spend $2k to join and then I think the minimum purchase would be around $2.5k for 250 pts. So did anyone negotiate a deal?

Based on our experience, they won't negotiate. In fact, your situation is one reason they would say you should buy points. Unfortunately, the minimum purchase is 1500 points, although someone reported recently that they were offered an opportunity to buy only 1000. At any rate, I don't think they will let you buy only 250 points. Hwwever, it wouldn't hurt to ask.

No dice on 250, I have asked as I am similar close.

If you say no to 1500 points, they will, just this one time, let you purchase 1000 points. (of course the same offer each time).

Trust owners must own at least a base interest. A base interest is four Beneficial Interests (BI). Each BI is 250 points, do the minimum you can even own based on the trust documentation is 1000 points.