Help...can't pay my timeshares anymore...what to do?

[oregonguy]

This discussion would be an interesting debate in it's own thread. Jdetar, I appreciate you sharing this advice with candor and clarity. I feel you are truly concerned about the OP.

In my opinion, I think that so many on TUG are trying to protect their own timeshare investments, and in turn giving out very poor advice to individuals in the same predicament as the OP. I've seen it time and time again.

I don't see this at all. I can't believe what great advice is given out freely on these boards. The percentage of timeshare owners asking for advice is such a small percentage of people owning timeshares, I give people here more credit than that by realizing that what a few people do in the long run doesn't really make any difference at all.

 

[jdetar]

Throwing away mail, blocking or not answering phone calls, hanging up, etc is a great deterrence. Freeze all 3 credit report's and basically make the collector's think there are no assets to come after anyways helps as well. From what I've heard, most timeshare foreclosures are not very aggressively gone after, however that is not something I would proclaim to be an expert in.

At this point, whether he could afford it or not, I would still advise dumping it with so much $$$ put in and left to go.

 

[AwayWeGo]

Me Neither.

From what I've heard, most timeshare foreclosures are not very aggressively gone after, however that is not something I would proclaim to be an expert in.

If I were an elected member of a timeshare HOA-BOD looking after the interests of all our on-time, fee-paying owners, & the board engaged the services of a law firm to take action against deadbeat owners, I would be mightily steamed to find out that the firm's lawyers & support staff were proceeding in a non-aggressive manner.

I flat-out don't like seeing my timeshare fees rising because of other owners' unpaid bills.

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​

 

[ace2000]

I don't see this at all. I can't believe what great advice is given out freely on these boards. The percentage of timeshare owners asking for advice is such a small percentage of people owning timeshares, I give people here more credit than that by realizing that what a few people do in the long run doesn't really make any difference at all.

There is outstanding advice given on TUG - without a doubt! I've been helped tremendously... Also, I wasn't referring specifically to your posts.

I'm referring to those who subscribe to the theory that the higher number of timeshare owners that go into foreclosure, the more the other timeshare owners (and themselves) will have to pay on their maintenance fees, in the future. So, therefore instead of helping, they produce more FUD (fear, uncertainty, and doubt) into the thread.

The people that post this question are generally looking for the advice that Jdetar gave - which doesn't make the final choice for the OP, but it does lay out the options very clearly.

I'm done... I just wanted to post my kudos to Jdetar for offering some very constructive advice to someone who probably needs the help.

 

[AwayWeGo]

Who Knew ?

I'm referring to those who subscribe to the theory that the higher number of timeshare owners that go into foreclosure, the more the other timeshare owners (and themselves) will have to pay on their maintenance fees, in the future.

Theory ?

Shux, I thought it was a fact.

Live & learn, eh ?

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​

 

[jdetar]

I'll play devil's advocate on the latest issue of discussion in this topic, if timeshare companies wouldn't have such outrageous fees, policies, and sales practices then these problems wouldn't be near as big of an issue to begin with.

If owners don't like the risks, they shouldn't be buying these timeshares and only buy the dirt cheap ones that only cost a couple thousand upfront and have low pressure sales so people can actually make informed purchasing decisions.

Or.. not own them at all.

Fact is, these risks are inherent among this industry and you have to make that choice and live with it when you make your decision to become a part of that timeshare. If your risk tolerance isn't high enough, and you get all upset when these things happen you should learn to train yourself that it's normal, and should be considered in THE COST OF DOING BUSINESS.

But what do I know.. It's not like I don't own several companies, and it's not like I would *ever* factor any customer defaults into my projections.

 

[jdetar]

If I were an elected member of a timeshare HOA-BOD looking after the interests of all our on-time, fee-paying owners, & the board engaged the services of a law firm to take action against deadbeat owners, I would be mightily steamed to find out that the firm's lawyers & support staff were proceeding in a non-aggressive manner.

I flat-out don't like seeing my timeshare fees rising because of other owners' unpaid bills.

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​

So you think it's worth spending big $$$ in attorney fees when they can't collect? I know what I'm talking about, in some situations it's better to let them walk away. You'll spend more money trying to get the money than you'll even get. Attorney's love this stuff.

 

[timeos2]

Deal with the realities

I'm referring to those who subscribe to the theory that the higher number of timeshare owners that go into foreclosure, the more the other timeshare owners (and themselves) will have to pay on their maintenance fees, in the future. So, therefore instead of helping, they produce more FUD (fear, uncertainty, and doubt) into the thread.

The people that post this question are generally looking for the advice that Jdetar gave - which doesn't make the final choice for the OP, but it does lay out the options very clearly.

I'm done... I just wanted to post my kudos to Jdetar for offering some very constructive advice to someone who probably needs the help.

There is a big difference between a paid up ownership & one that still owes on the original purchase as well as the resort fees. The fees are the lifeblood of the resort and, if they go into default, the other owners have to pick up the slack OR the budget has to be cut by at least that amount usually leaving needed work undone. Neither a good situation. As a Board and Association Member I'd expect those owners to be subject to the maximum possible pressure to pay up, sell out - do something to handle the obligation they accepted when they purchased.

When the ownership isn't paid off - they still owe for the purchase - then it is almost guaranteed they are also delinquent in fee payments. But the issue is different for the Association. If they foreclose they are effectively throwing away the significant fees they will incur as even if they succeed the claim is secondary to the mortgage holder. A hollow "victory". So in those cases it is far more productive to press the mortgage holder to go after the debtor and get the situation resolved. Once the mortgage holder forecloses then THEY owe the fees going forward and that means they are anxious to sell the time to another paying owner. Good for them and the Resort. They also (probably) have a much larger amount due and thus have more reasons to collect and can do more credit damage to the delinquent owner based on the numbers.

The whole system is tough to understand, harder to maintain and when one segment fails to uphold their end threatens all the rest. All owners benefit when the obligations are fulfilled - all are hurt when they are ignored. It is best to know what condition your resort is in (the older resorts aren't likely to have many mortgages outstanding unless they were REALLY poorly managed and/or the Developer maintained control and continued to push salea over all else - far too common). If you are an owner at a resort that is sold out and dealing mostly with paid up intervals then be sure your Association/Board is doing all they possibly can to maintain proper collection levels. If they aren't make a change in who operated the resort or sell out as trouble is on the way.

 

[AwayWeGo]

You Have An Excellent Case. Now, How Much Justice Can You Afford ?

So you think it's worth spending big $$$ in attorney fees when they can't collect?

That depends -- it is definitely not a 1 size fits all situation. No lawyer can collect money from somebody who's stony broke. Yet timeshare homeowner associations can't just sit there & do nothing when a deadbeat owner walks away, leaving all the other owners in the unfair situation of having to pick up a share the costs of somebody else's abandoned week/unit.

No timeshare HOA-BOD can afford to have many weeks/units in arrears or deeds in limbo (i.e., lost or disappeared owners who can't be identified or found).

No HOA-BOD living up to its duty to the responsible, on-time fee-paying owners can slack off on collecting every dollar that's due, every time.

At the same time, it is usually not a good idea to rack up, say, $7,500 in attorney fees to gain title to a unit that's realistically worth maybe $3,500 (if that). Then again, it's worth something to the homeowner association to keep deeds from going into limbo, & to clear up clouded title situations that slow or prevent new owners from taking over.

So while an independent owner-controlled timeshare HOA-BOD does not want to become penny wise & pound foolish, it still needs to keep its eye on the ball, remembering at all times that it's acting on behalf of the regular, every-day walking-around timeshare owners like us.

It has to go after delinquent owners promptly & aggressively (not punitively, but forcefully) so that early-stage easy cases don't morph via neglect into hard-core limbo-deed cases.

The HOA-BOD has to keep the resort itself so nice & attractive & affordable that the owners will keep on loving to go there, will feel justifiable pride of ownership, & will willingly pay their fees on time year after year.

Timeshare resort quality & solid financial footing go hand in hand. Without a good collection record, it's hard to keep the resort improving. Unless the resort is always getting better, it's harder to keep all the owners happy & on board & paying on time.

It's a challenging balancing act that an owner-controlled timeshare HOA-BOD has to perform year in & year out. The good outcomes don't happen by accident.

Hats off to those timeshare HOA-BODs that manage to keep everything positive in good times & bad.

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​

 

[oregonguy]

From what I've heard, most timeshare foreclosures are not very aggressively gone after, however that is not something I would proclaim to be an expert in.

Defaults have always happened, but the number we are going to see in the coming few years might change the status quo, and they might be aggressively gone after. The thing is that a timeshare owner is likely to be a homeowner. Defaulting and thinking you are done with it might be bad advice to give to someone, because they might just lose the timeshare and a whole lot more.

 

[oregonguy]

So you think it's worth spending big $$$ in attorney fees when they can't collect? I know what I'm talking about, in some situations it's better to let them walk away. You'll spend more money trying to get the money than you'll even get. Attorney's love this stuff.

It doesn't have to be big $$ spent - Chances are there is already legal staff in place - get a judgment, and place a lien on their main property. Eventually, the house is going to be sold, and there will be money there when it is.

Someone did this to my mother-in-law (not timeshare related, but she didn't make good on a debt she had to pay) so when she sold her house a few years ago, they got their money. I'm actually surprised this isn't done more, I know it depends on the state you are in, some states (like California) won't allow this.

 

[jdetar]

Agreed, that was much better worded and understood. As long as there's sense to the situation and each decisions isn't rubber stamped then it can work well for the board, and owners, without incurring too many costs upfront. It all comes down to the numbers, but being impartial towards the OP it's obvious that if he can't sell his timeshare, then his best option is foreclosure. It's a crazy amount. Some of these timeshares are crazy charging not only the ridiculous upfront costs, but the interest, and maintenance fees on top of it.

Whether a deadbeat or not, I can't help but keep looking at the reputation and bad business that timeshare represents. Don't get me wrong, I'm happy with my 6 timeshare ownerships, but I am constantly reminded, even on this forum, of the awful tactics and methods used to gain customers. It's no wonder these problems are larger among this industry.

Too bad it's not more like my industry. There is a great respect in my business, and honesty on all levels. Business is done with heads high on all aspects and it's a necessary business. Defaults and deadbeats do come about, sure, but nowhere near the level of timeshares and that's sad because we don't even have the opportunity to ding (or severely damage) credit to a person or business. Timeshares have some real influence on this level and still manage to have the problems they do. It all leads back to HOW the business is done to begin with. You can't expect people who come in for a "tour" or "survey" to walk out spending over $20K at 18% interest and then their MF's on top of it to not fully realize what just happened. That's why the laws even exist to protect the buyers and permit them to renege on the agreement. It's just upsetting is all. I wish it wasn't like this. Timeshares can be good products.. but so many are not because of this.

 

[AwayWeGo]

Absolutely Correct.

I can't help but keep looking at the reputation and bad business that timeshare represents.

Sad to say but true that the timeshare biz. as a whole has fully earned every bit of its slumdog reputation.

Sometimes I find myself feeling a retroactive twinge of social embarrassment after I've gone on too enthusiastically in casual conversation about how much we like our timeshares because we can use them to vacation in luxury accommodations for Motel 6 & Super 8 rates.

Even so, deadbeats stiffing a timeshare company is 1 thing but deadbeats stiffing their fellow timeshare owners is something else again.

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​

 

[jdetar]

Sad to say but true that the timeshare biz. as a whole has fully earned every bit of its slumdog reputation.

Sometimes I find myself feeling a retroactive twinge of social embarrassment after I've gone on too enthusiastically in casual conversation about how much we like our timeshares because we can use them to vacation in luxury accommodations for Motel 6 & Super 8 rates.

Even so, deadbeats stiffing a timeshare company is 1 thing but deadbeats stiffing their fellow timeshare owners is something else again.

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​

Agreed about the enthusiasm. Some people look at me like I'm crazy when I talk so good about it. :rofl:

Sad about the deadbeats as most of them probably have no idea it effects other owners. They simply don't understand the dynamics of the business. If anything, most of them feel better about sticking it back to the company that stuck them.

 

[Corrie]

What a story!

Gosh, reading through this really makes me think twice about getting involved with timeshare at all! I think it might just be better to pay the high prices at an expensive resort once a year or so, and be done with it. Getting legally roped into paying even the maintenance fees forever, seems pretty unpleasant!

 

[AwayWeGo]

Definitely Have Your Eyes Open Before Taking The Timeshare Plunge.

Gosh, reading through this really makes me think twice about getting involved with timeshare at all! I think it might just be better to pay the high prices at an expensive resort once a year or so, and be done with it. Getting legally roped into paying even the maintenance fees forever, seems pretty unpleasant!

The evil thing -- 1 of'm -- is that none of the timeshare sellers ever educate their customers about this when selling those customers full-freight timeshares for big bux.

By me, the essential calculation came down to the fact that I can pay years & years of maintenance fees -- & then some -- for the difference in cost between a full-freight timeshare from a timeshare company & the same thing or the equivalent or something even better on the resale market.

By me, a full-freight timeshare is a non-starter.

Yet via resale timeshares, we can & do enjoy luxury vacation accommodations for approximately Motel 6 & Super 8 rates.

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​

 

[DeniseM]

Gosh, reading through this really makes me think twice about getting involved with timeshare at all! I think it might just be better to pay the high prices at an expensive resort once a year or so, and be done with it. Getting legally roped into paying even the maintenance fees forever, seems pretty unpleasant!

Timesharing can be a great deal if you vacation every year, and if you understand it, but it's not for everyone. In this economy, I think the best thing to do is to compare the maintenance fee to what it would cost you to rent. If you can buy a cheap resale, and the maintenance fee is a lot less than the rental fee, then buying a TS makes sense. If, however, you can rent cheaper, then renting is the way to go. Making timesharing work for you also takes some research and planning - some people aren't into that part, and for them, renting is probably a better option.

 

[Corrie]

Thanks guys! I have learned A LOT already, just from reading this board. I am trying to decide which would be the better option:

-- Buying a resale timeshare. Costs would be about $500-$1200 per year in maintenance fees, etc., plus the initial cost of purchase and exchange/closing costs. So maybe around $2000 the first year + $800 or so each following year.

-- Renting or just paying the resort prices for vacations.


Even though the second choice seems more costly, especially paying the full price charged by the resorts, there is no long term commitment, and it seems like timeshares can be costly as well, even if bought resale!

Thanks for the input, this board is helping me so much!

 

[oregonguy]

Gosh, reading through this really makes me think twice about getting involved with timeshare at all! I think it might just be better to pay the high prices at an expensive resort once a year or so, and be done with it. Getting legally roped into paying even the maintenance fees forever, seems pretty unpleasant!

I am interested in timeshares, but I have similar issues as well. Right now, it simply doesn't fit my life - taking a vacation for an entire week just doesn't happen enough, usually it is 3 or 4 days. At one point that might change, but for at least the near future it won't. I also would need flexibility in dates. The problem is that it seems you need to plan a year ahead, and I simply can't do that with what I do for a living. I need to be able to plan a month ahead, and be able to cancel if I have something going on that I have to be there for.

Who knows, one day I might purchase a timeshare when things slow down - my father-in-law own several and he loves them. I think the info here is great, and when I purchase, I certainly would want to buy as inexpensively as possible, and know that if I wanted out, I could give away the timeshare and not be on the hook forever.

 

[oregonguy]

Thanks guys! I have learned A LOT already, just from reading this board. I am trying to decide which would be the better option:

-- Buying a resale timeshare. Costs would be about $500-$1200 per year in maintenance fees, etc., plus the initial cost of purchase and exchange/closing costs. So maybe around $2000 the first year + $800 or so each following year.

-- Renting or just paying the resort prices for vacations.


Even though the second choice seems more costly, especially paying the full price charged by the resorts, there is no long term commitment, and it seems like timeshares can be costly as well, even if bought resale!

Thanks for the input, this board is helping me so much!

I think for now at least, renting makes more sense. There are probably some good deals as people can't afford to take a vacation. The continual fee is an issue for me, at least you won't have that with renting. What I've been doing is going to the beach and renting 2 or 3 bedroom suites - it is pricey, but less than the MF for the timeshares I've looked at - plus it gives me flexibility as far as dates, partial weeks, and location. I don't have to plan a year ahead either.

 

[Tacoma]

ANother thought so you don't have to pay maintenance fees forever is to buy a timeshare with an end date. SOome on this board don't like them but I figure second hand the are cheap enough and I don't have to worry about saddling my children with somethng they don't want and have to pay for. All 3 I own (2 at the same place) have an end date. By the time they end I will be well into my senior years and likely be willing to wind down anyways. Otherwise I'll buy another one.

Joan

 

[AKE]

I'm not a lawyer but I think that a whole point is being missed here - if there is still $50K owing and the timeshare is not worth $50K (never mind the $90K that this individaul contracted for), then I would think that the better alternative may be to give it back to the developer who at that point can resell it (though finding any buyers today for $50K I would think is difficult). THis way the legal costs incurred by the developer would be minimal versus a costly repossession lawsuit with similar results.

 

[Jimster]

Time share troubles

You are going to get zapped if you do nothing. If you have someone that can handle the legal end for you, I would suggest that while you are at the resort you let it be known that they can buy your TS by simply taking over the payments. I am not talking about the company but to any of the guests that are already enthused enough to be there. Compared to what the timeshare salesmen are offering you have a great deal (compared to what it is worth on the resale market you don't but many potential buyers don't know that). You lose your investment this way, but at least you keep from being foreclosed upon and having your credit ruined.

 

[Holysmoke]

If I were an elected member of a timeshare HOA-BOD looking after the interests of all our on-time, fee-paying owners, & the board engaged the services of a law firm to take action against deadbeat owners, I would be mightily steamed to find out that the firm's lawyers & support staff were proceeding in a non-aggressive manner.

I flat-out don't like seeing my timeshare fees rising because of other owners' unpaid bills.

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​

you better get ready for some major increases. 2009 and 2010 the first to go will be peoples timeshares. trying to keep food on the table and a roof on their head will be hard enough

 

[timeos2]

Not true

you better get ready for some major increases. 2009 and 2010 the first to go will be peoples timeshares. trying to keep food on the table and a roof on their head will be hard enough

That type of blanket statement is simply not correct. Yes, people are having tough financial times. Yes, if it were food on the table or paying a timeshare fee food wins. But will that necessarily mean increased annual fees for timeshare owners? No! A well managed, well maintained and upgraded resort with reasonable fees has a value. Properly managed the few owners that fall into your scenario can sell or otherwise reassign ownership to others that will pick up the fees. The Association will not see a sudden or massive drop in payments. A poorly run resort that hasn't been maintained or is in an area with many weeks of low value may have problems with defaulting owners. But in that case the resort has intrinsic value issues compounded by poor planning now made worse by the economy. Most of that predates the economic problems and should have been red flags to owners long ago. To blame it on the ecomomy, while an easy out, isn't really the truth.

So while your worse case outcome can occur it is far from the norm and presenting it as such is rather like crying the sky is falling. Simply not the case for most.