Heir refusing timeshare and fees involved

[Rehdaun]

Sorry if this is the wrong place. I have a question about heir's refusing a timeshare. From my research here, I was under the impression that heir's can refuse a timeshare inheritance. My mother recently passed away and I'm being told by my estate lawyer that I am not able to refuse the timeshare that is only in her name. The timeshare is in Florida (vacation village parkway) and I am in Pennsylvania. According to the lawyer, the estate will have to pay a fee to vacation village in order to surrender it. In addition, I may have to get council from a lawyer in Flordia, which is about $4,000. This doesn't seem right to me. I was under the impression that I could just refuse this inheritance and wash my hands of it. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

 

[TUGBrian]

you need a new lawyer =)

though perhaps the truth is in there somewhere in what he said vs what was heard.

your first step should be contacting vacation village to inform them that the only remaining owner on the deed is deceased and you as the executor of the estate (or whomever that may be) wishes to surrender the deed back to the resort.

while there SHOULD not be any fees involved in this situation, there are tangible costs involved with the actual transfer of title and the resort MAY attempt to get you or the estate to pay that....and that MIGHT be worth it to avoid a headache on down the road in terms of closing the estate if there is anything else in it etc. just really depends on how much they are asking, but it doesnt sound like anyone has reached out to them yet vs just someone talking in hypotheticals vs getting any facts?

4000 is absolute nonsense however.

 

[dioxide45]

Transfer of the deed may require probate in Florida. Perhaps why the mention of $4000 and the Florida attorney. Though that would apply if transferring to you or back to VV. @LeslieDet knows all about this stuff.

 

[LeslieDet]

Sorry if this is the wrong place. I have a question about heir's refusing a timeshare. From my research here, I was under the impression that heir's can refuse a timeshare inheritance. My mother recently passed away and I'm being told by my estate lawyer that I am not able to refuse the timeshare that is only in her name. The timeshare is in Florida (vacation village parkway) and I am in Pennsylvania. According to the lawyer, the estate will have to pay a fee to vacation village in order to surrender it. In addition, I may have to get council from a lawyer in Flordia, which is about $4,000. This doesn't seem right to me. I was under the impression that I could just refuse this inheritance and wash my hands of it. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

It sounds like it is a deeded ownership. Heirs can refuse a bequest, but that doesn't mean that the real property ownership interest disappears or evaporates into thin air. I'm just speculating that your mother's estate attorney is making you aware that in order to deed back the ownership the estate needs to complete an ancillary probate in Florida. That requires the executor of the estate to hire counsel in FL to complete the legal transfer of ownership from what is now your mom's estate to whomever will be accepting the title. If you are the executor, you cannot simply "wash your hands of it", as you have fiduciary obligations as executor to process the estate and pay the bills and dispose of assets owned by your mom, whether it is her furniture or a deeded timeshare interest.

I'm sure that some folks will simply suggest you abandon the timeshare ownership, but if your mom's estate has assets, you do have an obligation to properly probate her estate. Hiring a lawyer in FL to probate the estate and transfer ownership to someone at a cost of $4k isn't unreasonable. Have you checked on the resale value? Offer it for free to someone and then you the executor is only responsible for the ancillary probate and not any surrender fee. Of course, much will depend upon the value of your mom's estate and the value of that particular timeshare.

BTW-because all deeded real estate can only be legally transferred by the owner or an authorized representative of the owner acting with a DPOA during the owner's life, that is why revocable living trust ownership is encouraged for real property. When deeded real estate is owned by a revocable living trust, and the grantor of the trust dies, the successor trustee legally steps into the shoes of the original trustee and is able to legally convey real property ownership interests without court intervention. When real property is owned by an individual who passes, the only way to legally transfer ownership is to probate the estate. Real property probated in a jurisdiction where the decedent did not reside is called an ancillary probate. The legal transfer of ownership after the death of the owner requires the probate court be involved.

 

[Rehdaun]

Thank you all for the quick and thorough responses. I will send this to my lawyer. Hopefully they can come up with a plan of action. You are all awesome!! Thank you again!

 

[5finny]

It sounds like it is a deeded ownership. Heirs can refuse a bequest, but that doesn't mean that the real property ownership interest disappears or evaporates into thin air. I'm just speculating that your mother's estate attorney is making you aware that in order to deed back the ownership the estate needs to complete an ancillary probate in Florida. That requires the executor of the estate to hire counsel in FL to complete the legal transfer of ownership from what is now your mom's estate to whomever will be accepting the title. If you are the executor, you cannot simply "wash your hands of it", as you have fiduciary obligations as executor to process the estate and pay the bills and dispose of assets owned by your mom, whether it is her furniture or a deeded timeshare interest.

I'm sure that some folks will simply suggest you abandon the timeshare ownership, but if your mom's estate has assets, you do have an obligation to properly probate her estate. Hiring a lawyer in FL to probate the estate and transfer ownership to someone at a cost of $4k isn't unreasonable. Have you checked on the resale value? Offer it for free to someone and then you the executor is only responsible for the ancillary probate and not any surrender fee. Of course, much will depend upon the value of your mom's estate and the value of that particular timeshare.

BTW-because all deeded real estate can only be legally transferred by the owner or an authorized representative of the owner acting with a DPOA during the owner's life, that is why revocable living trust ownership is encouraged for real property. When deeded real estate is owned by a revocable living trust, and the grantor of the trust dies, the successor trustee legally steps into the shoes of the original trustee and is able to legally convey real property ownership interests without court intervention. When real property is owned by an individual who passes, the only way to legally transfer ownership is to probate the estate. Real property probated in a jurisdiction where the decedent did not reside is called an ancillary probate. The legal transfer of ownership after the death of the owner requires the probate court be involved.

The O.P. identified three costs:
1) O.P.'s own attorney
2) A Florida attorney
3) A payment to vacation villages in order to surrender the ownership
I understand a Trust would eliminate cost #2 but wouldn't vacation villages still want a payment from the Trustee in order to accept a transfer?
Assuming the Trust has no assets other than the Timeshare and that vacation villages won't accept a transfer without being paid what is the right thing for the trustee to do?

 

[Ski-Dad]

Instruct your lawyer to advise Vacation Village that:

1. the owner is deceased
2. the heirs have refused the bequest
3. the MF is paid to date (yes, this will be required)
4. The executor is prepared to execute a quit claim deed for no fee
5. the executor intends to close the estate regardless

The estate (executor) is required in this order:

1. pay all debts (this includes MF owing)
2. distribute the assets per the will (they can abandon any assetts the heirs refuse)
3. close estate, after which no further claims can be made against the estate.om

Vacation Village hads the option to accept or refuse and foreclose on the unit which will cost them in legal fees.

 

[vacationtime1]

Instruct your lawyer to advise Vacation Village that:

1. the owner is deceased
2. the heirs have refused the bequest
3. the MF is paid to date (yes, this will be required)
4. The executor is prepared to execute a quit claim deed for no fee
5. the executor intends to close the estate regardless

The estate (executor) is required in this order:

1. pay all debts (this includes MF owing)
2. distribute the assets per the will (they can abandon any assetts the heirs refuse)
3. close estate, after which no further claims can be made against the estate.om

Vacation Village hads the option to accept or refuse and foreclose on the unit which will cost them in legal fees.

You're missing the entire point -- the estate is in Pennsylvania and the property is in Florida. The jurisdiction of the Pennsylvania court does not extend to granting an executor authority to transfer out-of-state real property. That is precisely why an ancillary probate in Florida will be necessary (unless the executor intends to shirk his responsibility to properly administer the entire estate).

 

[LeslieDet]

The O.P. identified three costs:
1) O.P.'s own attorney
2) A Florida attorney
3) A payment to vacation villages in order to surrender the ownership
I understand a Trust would eliminate cost #2 but wouldn't vacation villages still want a payment from the Trustee in order to accept a transfer?
Assuming the Trust has no assets other than the Timeshare and that vacation villages won't accept a transfer without being paid what is the right thing for the trustee to do?

A trust would eliminate 1 and 2. Of course having ownership in a trust does not make a difference for 3; that just depends upon what the beneficiaries of the revocable living trust would desire. But when ownership is in a revocable living trust, you don't have to go to court to get approval to transfer anything. I don't understand why folks actually believe that a trust can be timed so perfectly such that there is zero left at the end. Most trusts have assets in addition to only a timeshare. Folks tend to have bank accounts and homes and investment accounts all in the name of a trust. I sure as heck don't know when I'm going to die. I want my successor trustee to pay the bills that exist and make arrangements to do with my real property whatever my trust beneficiaries decide to do with that property. If they want to keep my timeshares, then my trust is written to retain funds to cover the annual MFs until my beneficiaries decide whether or not they want the ts. Otherwise, they can sell or give away without having to spend one cent in probate court.

 

[LeslieDet]

Instruct your lawyer to advise Vacation Village that:

1. the owner is deceased
2. the heirs have refused the bequest
3. the MF is paid to date (yes, this will be required)
4. The executor is prepared to execute a quit claim deed for no fee
5. the executor intends to close the estate regardless

The estate (executor) is required in this order:

1. pay all debts (this includes MF owing)
2. distribute the assets per the will (they can abandon any assetts the heirs refuse)
3. close estate, after which no further claims can be made against the estate.om

Vacation Village hads the option to accept or refuse and foreclose on the unit which will cost them in legal fees.

An executor cannot execute a quit claim without processing an ancillary probate. You do not know the value of the mom's estate. The executor has legal obligations. The executor doesn't get to pick and choose which legal obligations to fulfill. The statement that the executor intends to close the estate regardless is horrible advice given all of the unknowns, and it is potentially exposing that executor to personal liability for violating his or her fiduciary duty. Abandonment of an asset isn't as easy as you claim. There are actually rules that apply in a probate.

 

[BJRSanDiego]

I'm not disagreeing with what has been posted (above). But I had a tangential thought.

If a timeshare has a ROFR clause and the underlying company is fairly active (like Marriott), it might be possible to dispose of the unit without making the MF current rather than paying it in order to surrender the timeshare. Here is my idea... submit an offer to Marriott's ROFR people that is likely to fail the ROFR but is more than the MF. That could result in Marriott taking over the sales contract w/o the selling owner paying the final MF. And perhaps the seller could still end up slightly "ahead". If Marriott did not exercise their ROFR, I think that you could always submit a second (or third) ROFR submission.

Just a thought.

 

[5finny]

A trust would eliminate 1 and 2. Of course having ownership in a trust does not make a difference for 3; that just depends upon what the beneficiaries of the revocable living trust would desire. But when ownership is in a revocable living trust, you don't have to go to court to get approval to transfer anything. I don't understand why folks actually believe that a trust can be timed so perfectly such that there is zero left at the end. Most trusts have assets in addition to only a timeshare. Folks tend to have bank accounts and homes and investment accounts all in the name of a trust. I sure as heck don't know when I'm going to die. I want my successor trustee to pay the bills that exist and make arrangements to do with my real property whatever my trust beneficiaries decide to do with that property. If they want to keep my timeshares, then my trust is written to retain funds to cover the annual MFs until my beneficiaries decide whether or not they want the ts. Otherwise, they can sell or give away without having to spend one cent in probate court.

My timeshares are in trusts and that is all that is in those trusts
I have a separate trust for everything else
While the trusts are otherwise almost identical I thought it was best to isolate the timeshares

 

[5finny]

And since I turned to my own situation I will say that I have only one timeshare that I think has little to no value
It is an ownership that was gifted to me on TUG and that has me served well as a trader
If I passed tomorrow I would want that unit to be offered for free on TUG and then offered back to the resort
Although I see no legal obligation to do so I would expect my beneficiaries to pay the minimal costs for preparing and recording the deed
If the resort wanted an additional payment I would not expect it to be forthcoming
If the resort refused the deed back I would expect the offer would remain outstanding but nothing furthered would be done
To my mind that is an adequate attempt to minimize any harm to other owners

 

[dioxide45]

And since I turned to my own situation I will say that I have only one timeshare that I think has little to no value
It is an ownership that was gifted to me on TUG and that has me served well as a trader
If I passed tomorrow I would want that unit to be offered for free on TUG and then offered back to the resort
Although I see no legal obligation to do so I would expect my beneficiaries to pay the minimal costs for preparing and recording the deed
If the resort wanted an additional payment I would not expect it to be forthcoming
To my mind that is an adequate attempt to minimize any harm to other owners

Are you paying the MFs out of personal funds or funds that are in the trust that holds the timeshare?

 

[5finny]

Right now MF's are being paid from my personal funds I expect that to continue-Hopefully for some time

 

[jp10558]

How do you all add things to a trust anyway? Assuming a Lawyer set up a revocable trust, do you need the lawyer each time you put something in? Do you need to do a deed transfer?

 

[5finny]

If I buy something new I just give them the name of the trust as the purchaser.
On rare occasions they will want to see that part of the trust (or a trust certification) that allows me to purchase ownerships
I don't normally get an attorney involved

 

[LeslieDet]

I'm not disagreeing with what has been posted (above). But I had a tangential thought.

If a timeshare has a ROFR clause and the underlying company is fairly active (like Marriott), it might be possible to dispose of the unit without making the MF current rather than paying it in order to surrender the timeshare. Here is my idea... submit an offer to Marriott's ROFR people that is likely to fail the ROFR but is more than the MF. That could result in Marriott taking over the sales contract w/o the selling owner paying the final MF. And perhaps the seller could still end up slightly "ahead". If Marriott did not exercise their ROFR, I think that you could always submit a second (or third) ROFR submission.

Just a thought.

The problem is when the owner is dead, and the ownership was held individually by the person who is now deceased, the only way anything can be sold or given away is via a probate.

Also, just FYI - the ROFR process requires that the owner submit an existing contract to sell that ownership by the owner to the third party buyer. Then the company decides whether to exercise its right to buy or it waives the ROFR. So, if you submit anything, the buyer in the contract needs to be prepared to move forward and close the deal if the contract passes the ROFR.

And, BTW, title will not convey if there are outstanding MFs. Those will be required to be paid as part of the closing.

 

[LeslieDet]

How do you all add things to a trust anyway? Assuming a Lawyer set up a revocable trust, do you need the lawyer each time you put something in? Do you need to do a deed transfer?

If your lawyer set up a revocable living trust for you, then the steps to add real property are the same regardless of whether or not it is your family home or a vacant lot or a deeded timeshare. The owner/grantor of the trust conveys equitable title of the real estate to the revocable living trust via deed. That deed must be properly prepared and notarized in accordance with the laws of the jurisdiction where the real property is located, and then recorded in the appropriate county. There are only a few states that require a lawyer be involved in any and all real estate transactions, South Carolina is one of those states. Otherwise, a document transfer service like LT Transfers or Hawaii Document Service or First American Title Company can assist in preparing the deed and recording the deed. If you know what you are doing, then you could do it yourself (except for the notary of course).

 

[Ski-Dad]

An executor cannot execute a quit claim without processing an ancillary probate. You do not know the value of the mom's estate. The executor has legal obligations. The executor doesn't get to pick and choose which legal obligations to fulfill. The statement that the executor intends to close the estate regardless is horrible advice given all of the unknowns, and it is potentially exposing that executor to personal liability for violating his or her fiduciary duty. Abandonment of an asset isn't as easy as you claim. There are actually rules that apply in a probate.

The executor's fiduciary duties are to the estate, not the any HOA. Pay all outstanding debts, including taxes; and, distribute the assets in accordance with the terms of the testamentary instrument.

There is no obligation to make sure someone takes the timeshare future liabilities.

 

[LeslieDet]

The executor's fiduciary duties are to the estate, not the any HOA. Pay all outstanding debts, including taxes; and, distribute the assets in accordance with the terms of the testamentary instrument.

There is no obligation to make sure someone takes the timeshare future liabilities.

Obviously the executor's fiduciary duty is to the estate and heirs. No one said anything about it being to the HOA. LOL. What you proposed though, to tell the HOA that the "executor is prepared to execute a quit claim deed" is great, but what you are not understanding is that in order for the executor to have ANY deed to sign, whether it is a quit claim deed or a grant deed, there must first be an ancillary probate opened when the decedent doesn't live in the jurisdiction where the real property is located. Executors cannot simply sign deeds without probate court authorization. If an executor is offering a deed, then by definition that executor is processing the deed through a probate.

And, no, the executor cannot distribute all assets without first addressing the assets held by the decedent's estate. Your suggestion to bleed the estate dry and then walk away is not anything an executor can do without risk of personal liability.

And, of course there is no obligation to "make sure someone takes the timeshare future liabilities." LOL - where are you coming up with that? The obligation is to properly administer the estate and perform those obligations in good faith and with a higher level of care due to the executor being a fiduciary. If the estate has $10M then it would be unusual for a probate court to authorize an abandonment of an asset without the executor going through the required steps to transfer ownership of the unwanted ts back to the HOA.

 

[Ericksar]

Another Hawaii title changing resource is HawaiiDeed.com If everything is straight forward about changing your title, they are an online service (with support folks) that may be the answer. We just wanted to put our Hawaii condo into our existing trust, attorney quotes were between $1,000-$1,800. They would be appropriate if you needed legal services. With HD, everything can be done on-line including the Hawaii state filing. Their cost was under $600. I am writing this because I spent many hours researching solutions.
Also, if you have a simple timeshare transfer, we used detfreeservices.com and the cost was about $300 in 2023. Using the right tool for the job saves time and money. It is your responsibility to know what you are undertaking, however both firms will assist in the process. I am not in any way affiliated with either of these companies, both gave me excellent service.