Hawaii Superferry faces waves in court

[marcmuff]

I just saw this on my homepage:

Hawaii Superferry faces waves in court

By JAYMES SONG, Associated Press Writer Mon Aug 27, 6:58 PM ET

HONOLULU - Environmental groups sought court intervention Monday to ground the first passenger-vehicle ferry service among the Hawaiian Islands.
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The groups submitted a motion for a preliminary injunction and requested a temporary restraining order to halt the Hawaii Superferry from using Maui's Kahului harbor until an environmental assessment is conducted.

The Superferry made two sold-out trips Sunday, two days ahead of schedule, after the state Supreme Court ruled last week that the state should have required an environmental assessment before the ferry launched. State transportation officials, noting that the court didn't explicitly say the ship couldn't run, allowed the service to start.

An attorney representing three environmental groups, Isaac Hall, said state law clearly says that a project cannot be launched and state land cannot be used until an environmental assessment is being prepared.

"I'm hoping the judge will agree with us," Hall said. "I don't think operating for one day or two days in absolute bad faith should give anybody a leg up at all."

Hawaii Superferry Inc. officials said they were preparing a response to the court filings.

The environmentalists argue that the ferry's plan to ply 400 miles of Hawaii waters each day endangers whales, threatens to spread invasive species and will worsen traffic and pollution.

Superferry officials have said the ship's water jet propulsion system means there are no exposed propellers to strike aquatic animals.

Before Sunday, the only way to travel among the islands where an estimated 1.3 million people live and tens of thousands of tourists arrive each day was by the local airlines.

The $95 million ship is built to carry more than 800 passengers and 200 cars. After Sept. 5, the fares will go up significantly: Round trips from Honolulu to Maui or Kauai, with taxes and a fuel surcharge, will cost more than $240 for one passenger and a car.

 

[Timeshare Von]

After Sept. 5, the fares will go up significantly: Round trips from Honolulu to Maui or Kauai, with taxes and a fuel surcharge, will cost more than $240 for one passenger and a car.

They MUST be kidding! That is outrageous. Who can afford that??

 

[ricoba]

They MUST be kidding! That is outrageous. Who can afford that??

I don't think that is too much since it's a driver & a car.

I would think it would be a great way for locals to get around, if it is able to keep operating.

 

[Kona Lovers]

The prices charged might be what brings the whole project to a grinding halt.

Marty

 

[Timeshare Von]

I don't think that is too much since it's a driver & a car.

I would think it would be a great way for locals to get around, if it is able to keep operating.

Let's say for a weekend trip, someone can fly via one of the local Hawaiian discount airlines and rent a car for less. I think if you're planning a trip to a neighboring island services by the ferry, for more than a week, perhaps then it might make some sense. Actually the over/under break even is probably something like 5 days unless you are planning to rent a low end (compact/economy car).

 

[Timeshare Von]

The prices charged might be what brings the whole project to a grinding halt.

Marty

That's what I am thinking too. I don't know that the local market can keep them a float . . . and don't see many tourists filling up the ferry on a regular enough basis to keep them financially solvent.

 

[Icarus]

Passenger fares are around $50 depending on what day you go. More than Go! airfares of course.

A TRO was issued, so they can't dock on Maui. They are planning on continuing the Ohahu - Kauai service, but the ship didn't dock today (Monday) at Nawiliwili harbor because of protesters in the water. It just turned back and returned to Ohahu.

There's a very small, but very vocal group opposed to the ferry. Their reasons don't really make sense given how the ferry works and the rules they have set up for themselves including monitoring for whales, etc, so I expect this will merely be a delay. The same type of ferry has been operating out of Maine for some time now.

The stories are all on the front page at honoluadvertiser.com

-David

 

[ouaifer]

In response to the OP...the injunction for the temporary restraining order has been granted until September 6.

There were also several large scale protests on Kaua'i at Nawiliwili Harbor...blocking roads. Also, kayakers and surfers were in the water, preventing the Alakai Ferry from entering the harbor. It had to retreat back into open waters for several hours, until the protesters left and the Coast Guard cleared the way for re-entry.

 

[ouaifer]

Superferry Alakai suspended operations!

The Superferry has suspended operations to Kaua'i.

 

[Icarus]

Your link is broken. (The story is still there, but the breaking_news link changed, and those links are temporary.)

Here's a better story from the Honolulu Advertiser.

http://honoluluadvertiser.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070829/NEWS01/708290426

It looks like from the map, anybody staying at KBC would have had a pretty good view of the festivities.

-David

 

[ouaifer]

I've corrected the link...thank you.

 

[DaveNV]

I live in the Pacific Northwest, north of Seattle. Ferry traffic to the San Juan Islands here is enormously popular, resulting in very long lines and lots of traffic, as people come from everywhere to visit the area. And its not cheap: The current fare for a normal car and just the driver to one of the main islands is $43.10. Passengers are extra. If the vehicle happens to be longer than 20 feet, the fare goes up substantially - by about 50%. People absorb that cost because it's the only practical way to get to the San Juans from the mainland.

So I think the $240 fare for something *this* unique will definitely appeal to a lot of visitors, who would love to see another Hawaiian island without having to go through the hassle and expense of flying and renting a car again. How much do tourists currently pay to take a short helicopter tour, or a submarine dive, or have a fancy dinner cruise, or eat in a swanky restaurant? Is this price too high? Maybe. But I think tourism will support the Hawaii ferries, if they can get the legalities sorted out, and the kinks worked out of the system. Tourists will budget the cost into the price of their trip.

For everyone who says it costs too much, there are bound to be many who will pay, for the convenience and novelty, if nothing else.

Dave

 

[BocaBum99]

It's unfortunate that such a small minority of people can stop such an enterprise. I wonder what these people's real beef is with the SuperFerry?

Regarding the option for tourists, I don't see it as being very viable if the prices remain a lot higher than the alternative of taking an inter-island flight and renting a car. That's because the tourist needs to rent a car anyway. With cheap flights and cheap rental car rates so prevalent in Hawaii, I am not sure about how big the market is for a tourist oriented alternative.

The biggest potential market I saw was for locals who don't tend to travel much to the outer islands. With a cost effective option, you could see locals travelling between islands like they never did before.

But, the costs are prohibitive. It's at least twice the price of renting a car and taking a flight. Not sure if the novelty is worth that price differential. We'll see what the market says.

With the $5 promotional rate, all the tickets sold out quickly. We'll see if they end up having lots of promotions.

 

[Kauai Kid]

Your link is broken. (The story is still there, but the breaking_news link changed, and those links are temporary.)

Here's a better story from the Honolulu Advertiser.

http://honoluluadvertiser.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070829/NEWS01/708290426

It looks like from the map, anybody staying at KBC would have had a pretty good view of the festivities.

-David

There are some very negative comments about the Kauai Coast Guard personnel in the Newspaper article that I have to challenge on this the second anniversary of Katrina.

The Coast Guard rescued more people before, during, and after Katrina than any other agency!

Many Katrina folks owe their very lives to these folks in the Coast Guard who put their own lives on the line to save others.

Have these Hawaiians forgotten what the Coast Guard did for Hawaiians when Iniki clobbered Kauai? I bet they were heros then just as they were during Katrina.

Sterling, formerly from New Orleans (its not fixed yet)

 

[Born2Travel]

Quote: The environmentalists argue that the ferry's plan to ply 400 miles of Hawaii waters each day endangers whales, threatens to spread invasive species and will worsen traffic and pollution.

I guess I just don't understand this. What is different about the ferry than the cruise ships and other boats that navigate the waters in Hawaii?

 

[T_R_Oglodyte]

Quote: The environmentalists argue that the ferry's plan to ply 400 miles of Hawaii waters each day endangers whales, threatens to spread invasive species and will worsen traffic and pollution.

I guess I just don't understand this. What is different about the ferry than the cruise ships and other boats that navigate the waters in Hawaii?

This isn't about environment; it's about jobs.

You're right - there is no difference between the ferry and the cruise ships. But ferries bring tourists to the islands, who then spend money. Thus, cruise ships are good.

Superferry is perceived as being more valuable to kama'ina, thus the economic impact of people arriving on ferry will be less. Plus, those people who visit interisland now are forced to fly and to rent cars; if those people take the ferries they won't rent cars and they won't be buying airline tickets.

 

[hibbeln]

A lot of the environmental concerns center around invasive species which are a very real and very legitimate concern in the Hawaiian islands. They are so geographically isolated that invasive species spread very rapidly and do an amazing amount of damage.

Oahu already has a lot of trouble with invasive species. Maui is having more and more trouble. The other islands do NOT want invasive plants and insects from those islands.

What makes the SuperFerry different is the cars......people can drive their cars or ORV trucks up on the ferry and bring along all the dirt, seeds, spores, bugs, eggs, etc from one island to another. It truly could be an ecological nightmare.

Does that make more sense?

 

[BocaBum99]

A lot of the environmental concerns center around invasive species which are a very real and very legitimate concern in the Hawaiian islands. They are so geographically isolated that invasive species spread very rapidly and do an amazing amount of damage.

Oahu already has a lot of trouble with invasive species. Maui is having more and more trouble. The other islands do NOT want invasive plants and insects from those islands.

What makes the SuperFerry different is the cars......people can drive their cars or ORV trucks up on the ferry and bring along all the dirt, seeds, spores, bugs, eggs, etc from one island to another. It truly could be an ecological nightmare.

Does that make more sense?

No, this is a completely bogus argument. If they want to stop invasive species, they need to remove all humans, cruise ships, and airplanes from the islands. The most invasive species of all are humans.

 

[T_R_Oglodyte]

A lot of the environmental concerns center around invasive species which are a very real and very legitimate concern in the Hawaiian islands. They are so geographically isolated that invasive species spread very rapidly and do an amazing amount of damage.

Oahu already has a lot of trouble with invasive species. Maui is having more and more trouble. The other islands do NOT want invasive plants and insects from those islands.

What makes the SuperFerry different is the cars......people can drive their cars or ORV trucks up on the ferry and bring along all the dirt, seeds, spores, bugs, eggs, etc from one island to another. It truly could be an ecological nightmare.

Does that make more sense?

Are you seriously saying that right now there aren't ample opportunities for transport of bugs and critters from island to island. Are you saying that all of the barge traffic among islands is sanitized to ensure that dirt, spores, insects, etc, aren't being carried inside in shipping containers? Are you saying that when companies use fork lifts to move cargo destined for interisland sevices that they clean the tires and undersides of the equipment and pallets to ensure that no interisland transport of species can occur? Do you mean that people are not now carrying dirt, bugs, seeds, spores, etc, from island to island?? That all of the suitcases, shoes, ice chests, hunting gear, and other personal effects that people carry with them interisland are not carrying dirt, spores, bugs, etc.?

There's no way that isn't happening now, and cars and trucks moving from island to island isn't going to have a big impact on that.

****

That's not to say that interisland transport of species isn't an issue that should be ignored. But if we're not going to ignore it, don't think that the efforts taken to combat it should be measures that will actually be effective and make a difference? Don't you think that a person truly concerned about that issue would have any problem with implementing the measures that are likely to actually have an impact on the problem?

By far the biggest way that invasive land species travel is in agricultural and botanical products. Right now people haul food and botanicals from island to island with little restriction, spreading pests and critters pretty freely among the islands. Just keep an eye open for those signs that tell you that you're entering or leaving a banana virus quarantine area, for example. That's all tranmsitted by people moving food and plants.

I'll be ready to believe that interisland transport of invasive species is truly the issue with the Superferry when the people screaming about the Superferry also insist on doing the single most effective step that can be done to control invasive species - namely institute agricultural inspections for interisland travelers and confiscate all foodstuffs and botanical items being transported among islands without permit.

Because if you don't do that, hyperventilating about a Superferry contribution to invasive species is like screaming about a cut on your finger while your carotid artery has been slashed.

****

With all of that said, there one aspect of possible Superferry impact on invasive species moving among the islands that does bear some consideration, and that is aquatic weeds and bugs. That's the same situation faced with transport and spread of milfoil here in the mainland, for example.

But cruise ships are already doing a good shop of ensuring that marine aquatic species become well distributed among the islands. In fact, because cruise ships don't have to spend all of their time in Hawai'i they actually are a much bigger source of concern for invasive species, because they could carry something in from a foreign port almost anywhere in the world, whereas the Superferry will only stay in Hawaiian waters.

If there are freshwater species that need to be prevented from spreading among islands (I don't know if there actually are), then it might be a good idea to prohibit people from taking boats on the superferry.

 

[Icarus]

A lot of the environmental concerns center around invasive species which are a very real and very legitimate concern in the Hawaiian islands. They are so geographically isolated that invasive species spread very rapidly and do an amazing amount of damage.

Oahu already has a lot of trouble with invasive species. Maui is having more and more trouble. The other islands do NOT want invasive plants and insects from those islands.

What makes the SuperFerry different is the cars......people can drive their cars or ORV trucks up on the ferry and bring along all the dirt, seeds, spores, bugs, eggs, etc from one island to another. It truly could be an ecological nightmare.

Does that make more sense?

No. We transport cars today between the islands and between the islands and the mainland by barge and container ships. What's the difference?

Mitigation is possible in these cases. The cars have to be delivered clean to the barges and container ships and to the ferry. The tires and wheel wells can be high pressure sprayed at the point they enter the boats. They aren't today for any mode of transportation that currently exists, so why single out the Ferry? I don't disagree that it's an issue though, but that can be easily solved.

I agree that invasive species mitigation is very important, but why single out the ferry from the other modes of transportation that are in use today?

The other argument you hear all the time is that the Super Ferry will bring crime and drugs from Oahu. That's just nonsense, and the same arguments that light rail opponents use on the mainland. It doesn't happen there for $3 a ride and it certainly won't happen on the islands for $50 - $60 - $240 a ride. I can just imagine the criminals and drug dealers waking up one morning on Oahu and deciding to take a 3 hour expensive ferry ride to export crime and drugs to the other islands.

I'm sure there will have to be some traffic mitigation at the outer island egress point for the cars. There really isn't any now.

BTW, Steve, the Ferry doesn't discharge anything into the waters. Also for transport of boats, they could have extra inspections (empty bilges, etc.) People already travel between the islands on boats.

-David

 

[Icarus]

There are some very negative comments about the Kauai Coast Guard personnel in the Newspaper article that I have to challenge on this the second anniversary of Katrina.

Sterling,

I re-read the Honolulu Advertiser article and didn't see one negative comment about the coast guard. Maybe the Kauai World article had a quote from a protester? I don't think the articles were anti-Coast Guard. Did I miss something?

-David

 

[BocaBum99]

No. We transport cars today between the islands and between the islands and the mainland by barge and container ships. What's the difference?

Mitigation is possible in these cases. The cars have to be delivered clean to the barges and container ships and to the ferry. The tires and wheel wells can be high pressure sprayed at the point they enter the boats. They aren't today for any mode of transportation that currently exists, so why single out the Ferry? I don't disagree that it's an issue though, but that can be easily solved.

I agree that invasive species mitigation is very important, but why single out the ferry from the other modes of transportation that are in use today?

The other argument you hear all the time is that the Super Ferry will bring crime and drugs from Oahu. That's just nonsense, and the same arguments that light rail opponents use on the mainland. It doesn't happen there for $3 a ride and it certainly won't happen on the islands for $50 - $60 - $240 a ride. I can just imagine the criminals and drug dealers waking up one morning on Oahu and deciding to take a 3 hour expensive ferry ride to export crime and drugs to the other islands.

I'm sure there will have to be some traffic mitigation at the outer island egress point for the cars. There really isn't any now.

BTW, Steve, the Ferry doesn't discharge anything into the waters. Also for transport of boats, they could have extra inspections (empty bilges, etc.) People already travel between the islands on boats.

-David

I agree. Why would the criminals want to pay more by going on the SuperFerry when they can get there faster and cheaper on a Go airline flight? And, they can just steal a car when they are there. Why would they want to get caught in their own car? Nonsense.

 

[california-bighorn]

I understand the possible problem of invasive species, but all life on the Hawaiian Islands is the result of invasive species carried by currents, birds, and wind. I would think the only legitimate argument would be forms of algee etc. that could be carried on the hull of the boat. But cruise ships and supply barges have the same risk. I think you just need to follow the money trail to find why there are protesters. Although I doubt I would ever use this ferry service, as eluded to previously it will cut into other businesses. What I find disturbing about this story is the timing. If there was such a perlious danger to the Islands, why did the protesters wait until the service had already started?

 

[Kauai Kid]

Sterling,

I re-read the Honolulu Advertiser article and didn't see one negative comment about the coast guard. Maybe the Kauai World article had a quote from a protester? I don't think the articles were anti-Coast Guard. Did I miss something?

-David

Right David--the article itself isn't negative but the comments and blogs and links at the bottom of the article with people trashing the Coast Guard certainly were negative.

Sterling

 

[T_R_Oglodyte]

If invasive species is being flogged here, that's only because the opponent's perceive that as the vulnerable point. They're not really concerned about invasive species; their goal is to stop the Superferry and invasive is merely the means to the end - not the end itself.

****

Sterling - the boat doesn't have to discharge anything to provide transportation for some species. But certainly discharging ballast and bilge does greatly increase the chances of spreading invasive species.

***

But you do provide first-hand perspective of what I was already sure of - viz., that there is already ample movement between islands of dirt, muck, spores, seeds without the Superferry.

Which just comes back to my main point - people aren't really battling the Superferry because of invasive species concerns. They're battling the Superferry for other reasons and invasive species is just an argument they've latched on to.

I've been involved in many "public participation" issues in facility permitting throughout my career, and the issue is almost never the one that is being fought before the regulatory agencies.

One case I remember well involved the construction of a 240 MW cogeneration facility in California. The intervening parties opposing the project included several labor trade unions. Their submittals to the permitting agency opposing the project included concerns about air pollution, traffic impacts, and socio-economic impacts on the neighborhood adjacent to the plant.

Funny how all of those cocerns disappeared as soon as the developer committed to hiring union contractors to build the facility if it were permitted. Suddenly those very same trade unions withdrew their petitions opposing the project and recommended approval based on the positive economic benefits.