Has anyone attended a sales tour this week?

[pharmgirl]

So what happens to the resale units out there now? Will they be excluded completely from the points????

As time goes on there will be more and more resale units - people who pass away, life changes, children grow up How can Marriott keep ignoring this growing number of resales that will tie up units that will not be in points?

 

[GregT]

We attended a presentation at Grande Vista today and asked lots and lots of questions. IMO the personnel who are "selling" the new program do not really understand it and clearly they have not read the documents that we are being asked to sign. They have only read the sales training documents Marriott has provided them.

We had spoke with a salesperson who does owner presentations and has been with Marriott for many years and a sales manager.

First - there is no answer regarding why Marriott "short changed" its owners when it kept a piece of the pie for itself in determining the point values we will receive if we enroll. Once they understood my level of knowledge on this issue they stopped trying to say but you get more "flexibility" (clearly the buzz word that came through during the training) acknowledged that the deficit exists in most cases and basically said that it is what it is and they have not control over that decision. We had a lengthy conversation on this topic and of course they said that we didn't need points to make a week reservation at our home resort.

Based on everything they said (and didn't say) IMO effectively the answer seems to be that because we are being given all these additional options we didn't have before - the conversion rate for week to points reflects that added cost to Marriott.

We were told by the sales manager that the reason the roll out of this program was kept totally quiet was because of the resale weeks. Marriott did not want anyone to know that if they bought resale weeks those weeks could be included and would get the right to exchange for MR in the event that the original property had that right. Now that the program is "out" the theory is that no resale week will be included going forward (unless bought from enrolled owner and new enrollment fee paid).

On the subject of Marriott's ability to change the Points on the Points Chart - each MVC Property has a fixed number of Points that are deeded and that number will not change however the allocation of the points between different weeks on the chart may change but if they increase one week they must decrease another week. When I said that there were only 11-12 MVC Properties currently in the Land Trust they objected. They contented that all the MVC Properties are in the Land Trust - though they backed off this statement again after I asked how the sold out properties could be in the land trust and said that what they meant was that eventually they will all be in the land trust.

Regarding our voting rights being curtailed by the documents neither the sales guy nor the manager had any idea what I was talking about and the sales guy owns three Marriott weeks. They basically said that "legal" stuff is not their job - their job is to sell the program. I asked them how they can sell a program the details of which they don't understand and they said (I'm paraphrasing) they understand the benefits, the flexibility, etc., and that is all they need to understand. I told them I need to understand what I am paying to enroll in before enrolling let alone buying base Points.

On the subject of inventory and whether there is one pool or two - the sales guy said that it was all one pool and that he believed that after awhile the II Marriott inventory would dry up except for cancellations of previously reserved weeks. When the manager got into the picture and I asked him the question he said that he wasn't sure he thought it was two pools and promised to email the ex-DVC guy who designed the program and get back to us (I'm not holding my breath but I'll let you know if I get the email). The ex-DVC guy apparently was in the building earlier in the day but he had left. The sales manager didn't seem to think that if we enrolled our weeks and then chose to use them as weeks v. points that we'd have a hard time trading them as weeks in Marriott's new system in the same we'd always done. When I pointed out that Marriott had the right to use deposited weeks as it saw fit he was clueless. He said it only has that right if we chose to exchange our weeks for Points. In the end he wound up advising us to enroll only our developer weeks and not our two Bronze resale weeks even though that advice makes no sense monetarily a fact the sales guy gently mentioned.

For all you EOY owners - we were told by the sales guy that because our points total just over 6500 on an EOY basis we would get Premier status at least EOY. I told him that I'd been told that I would not because the EOY points are divided for the purpose of determining your total points for Premier status, which I didn't think was fair as it was my understanding that I couldn't divide my points. The sales manager called "corporate" and they told him that the reason the EOY points are averaged is that you can borrow or bank only those points that you need you do not need to borrow or bank the total points associated with anyone week. Initially they told me that my Club dues would be $199 but with this answer it was revised to $165.

With regard to the purchase of Beneficial Interests - 1000 points (4 Beneficial Interests) is the initial minimum that legacy weeks owners can purchase and they will waive up to $695 but not my entire enrollment fee of $1995 (I did not negotiate hard on this subject because I didn't intend to purchase points but they were trying to sell me to get us to Premier status). The cost is 9.20 per point though the manager told us that up until 3 days prior to roll out it was 9.85 per point so he was sure it would go up like DVC point cost has risen. If you purchase 1000 points now you can purchase a minimum of one Beneficial Interest which equals 250 points in the future. I'm told you will never be able to purchase less that one Beneficial Interest because that is how the Land Trust was set up.

Plus Points - the sales guy didn't know about the 800 Plus Points for enrolling. The sales manager knew about it but tried to sell us 1000 Points saying that we'd get 1100 Plus Points when I said that would be in addition to the 800 Plus Points for enrolling right he kept side stepping the question. Again I didn't push because we aren't purchasing points though despite all the "nonsense" we probably will enroll.

The told us this new program was developed in response to all the complaints of the owners especially complaints about II. They referenced the survey that Marriott sent out as a piece of the information used to develop the system. They said that II did not always give Marriott weeks the 24 day priority and sometimes kept the "good weeks" for itself. Marriott wanted to stop that by creating its own internal exchange company so that Marriott and Marriott only controlled the exchanges between Marriott owners to ensure that non-Marriott owners who paid small sums of money for their timeshares could not exchange into Marriott resorts in front of Marriott owners. When we told them that we had not had any problems dealing with II and were able to use the system for good exchanges they said that we were in the minority.

With regard to the Explorer program, we love to cruise but usually share a cabin with our children so we asked what happened if we wanted to have 4 in a cabin rather than 2 (the website tells you to call in this scenario) and neither the sales guy or the manager could answer but again I was promised an email answer. When I inquired as to how they can sell a program that they have all the details on they tried to say but they didn't develop this program and these options were a surprise. I was quite frustrated with this answer and they were frustrated with my questions and the sales office was closing so we all called it a day. They know we are here until Sunday and assured us they would get us answers to our questions.

One of the biggest amusements to me in this discussion was when we explained to the sales guy (who owns weeks himself) that we knew about the new program and had read the documents involved in enrolling and he said "how can that be no one is supposed to know"!! I said it was all on Marriott's website for its owners!!:rofl:

I also told him that I knew the new program was coming from my membership on TUG and he didn't know about TUG. He was an older gentlemen who may not have been so computer savvy. He was nice and tried to give us honest answers but he didn't have them. Clearly Marriott should have trained their staff for more than 3 days.

We did get two 7 day passes to Universal at a greatly reduced price as our gift - which thrills my teenagers.

Off to the pool and park!!

This is a great summary, thank you!

 

[lovemyjeep]

Hello--First, let me say THANK YOU TUG for all your help and information over the years.* We took a tour yesterday at Koolina for 10,000 points.* Hesitant to take a tour, but knew we had to learn their perspective on the new point system.* First, the salesman, started off with "did you receive any surveys over the past few years--because you the members were the ones who changed the system"* He stated with his 4 ownerships he never received one survey.* Okay--off to a good start.Let him explain the wonderful system for a few minutes then started asking about my dislike to be babysat with only going through a vacation ownership advisor for any trades in the new system.* He checked on this and said maybe in the future you could do this on your own, but almost all people want someone else to do their planning.* Not me. Asked him about our ownership of Maui Ocean Club, previously weeks 1-51, now into different season categories.* He said "could you explain that to me"* It was really getting me disgusted and felt we were being patronized.We are here at Koolina for 2 weeks in 2 bedroom units on a trade using 2 of our studios from Maui.* Believe me, it probably took me 40+ hours of looking online at II to quickly snag these very early in the morning.* First week, new building, 3rd floor, ocean view, next week in mountain view.* He could not believe it.* Said yes the points required can go up, but today the offer is a great one to get in.* Kept stating 1 or 2 days here or there, I said please don't market that way to us because we could care less about that.* He contradicted himself several times--first--our 3 Cypress Harbour units Marriott a few days wouldn't have given us perhaps $200 for, but look Marriott gave you a few thousand points for this.* So I should be thankful?* Marriott was so happy back in 1999 and stated the world of opportunities with Orlando being such a hot destination, yet

 

[DMSTWO]

The hidden benifit of a free fall resale market

As time goes on there will be more and more resale units - people who pass away, life changes, children grow up How can Marriott keep ignoring this growing number of resales that will tie up units that will not be in points?

Ah! ...now you have touched on the beauty of the system...Marriott doesn't want strong resales. By limiting the usability of the resale deeded weeks (i.e. not allowing them to join the points program) they artificially drive down the price. Then they ROFR the low cost sale and place it in the Trust. Thus they have additional trust weeks to provide the basis for more high $$$ points sales.

Marriott execs didn't get where they are by being stupid.

In retrospect this is probably part of the reason they haven't been exercising ROFR over the past year or so...let the resale market free fall then we (Marriott) can pickup low cost ROFRs at some of the sold out resorts once the new system starts selling enough points to justify expanding the Trust's holdings.

 

[lovemyjeep]

continued--

back then buy buy buy Orlando.

I asked how would we sell any of our weeks now--no one would want them because of the points system/past June 20. He said Marriott is working on that for resales.

He stated everyone is signing up for this in droves and get in while the price is good.

He then tried to wrap up a sale at the end for either the membership or additional points. We said we weren't doing anything without any writing in place for doing my own searches, nor the blatant skimming, and the seasons changed for Maui Ocean Club versus 1-51 prior.

Was then offered an Encore package by a saleswoman. My husband said no, we're getting out of here.

--Pat

 

[Bunk]

what is an encore package?

 

[Ann in CA]

An Encore Package is usually offered (when you don't buy) for a price (Say $9-1200, for a 5 night package to return to the resort.) By buying that, it holds the "great offer" they made to you for the sale, and is applied to the price of the Marriott purchase if you later decide to buy.

 

[lovemyjeep]

Bunk--An Encore package was offered for a studio at Koolina for a week, good for 2 years to come back, freezing the prices of the program offering.* I think it was $1099 for the studio.* Also, had different prices for a 1 and 2 bedroom at Koolina.* My husband was ready to get out of there, he didn't even let her explain the prices for the 1 or 2 bedroom.* --Pat

 

[Ann in CA]

We have never been the slightest bit tempted. Why would I pay over a thousand dollars for a week I purchased as a getaway on II for $212? (this was at Desert Springs, & also Canyon Villas at presentations while trying to get new program info before it was announced)

 

[LAR]

Canyon Villas Last Week

I met with the sales folks at Canyon Villas last Wednesday. They were just 3 days into the new program and so many answers to my questions came across as uncertain. (I also noticed a lot of their sales reps had their computer screens on the TUG boards!) We, too, certainly heard all about the flexibility. I suppose I've made out better than many others owning an EOY 1BR at MOC (we get 3100 points for it), but I was dismayed by what 3100 points gets me - particularly now that I'd be losing my bonus week with II.

well, the rep calculated that our vacationing pattern (a trade one year and flex change the following - usually to Cypress Harbor) that we were short some 800-900 points. So they tried to sell me another 1000 points.

My biggest concern - after the skimming issue - is what I anticipate to be a dramatic drop in my ability to trade via II into another Marriott property - and that's where we tend to go to. Sales rep didnt see that initially, but by the end of our discussion seemed to acknowledge this. I explained to the rep that we would join the club at initial prices and that I was doing so because I felt Marriott was essentially compelling me to join. the 800 points does seem to do a reasonable job of offsetting the $595 fee and over time I should save on II fees with the umbrella club dues.

My second biggest concern was, as I explained to the rep, the possibility that Marriott could change the redemption levels at any time. It may take 3500 points for a week now, but Marriott could change that any time - similar to what they did to the Marriott Rewards program not so long ago. The rep explained to me that Marriott could not change the redemption levels as this was deeded property. Now I'm reading on TUG about Beneficial Trusts etc and I'm waiting for a real estate attorney to explain all this to me! I've written the sales rep reminding him of what he said to me and asking to be directed to something in writing and have no received a voicemail from him to discuss. Apparently I will not get this clarified in writing.

We did take the Encore offer (never heard this phrase before til now). We can return for one week up until end of 2011 for $1800 at which time we could apply the $1800 to the cost of those 1000 points that I suspect I'm going to want in the near future. Price for those points increases from $9.20 to $10-something.

I suppose the Encore works if you know that you'll be buying the points. I'm not 100% certain of this yet so I have some anxiety that I should not have signed up for it. They are guaranteeing me my travel dates which certainly eases the challenges of lining up airfare while avoiding taking the kids out of school.

As an aside, we really liked Canyon Villas - its a dry heat alright! and we are thinking about a post Xmas return in '011 with that Encore.

I resent being placed into a position where I need to spend another $9K to sustain my vacationing patterns, but also understand that those II flex weeks were unreliable and hard to exploit.

One element of flexibility that appeals to me is that I 'should' now be more easily able to access to 2 BR units. We bought our 1 BR before we had three children and now often finding ourselves trading into destinations based upon our ability to land a 2 BR. I guess we now have to get used to the idea of only staying 5 nights instead of 7!

Thanks to everyone for sharing...

LAR

 

[LAX Mom]

What are the Marriott reps saying about the ability to sell your points when you decide it's time to sell?

I have called and asked a couple of reps about this and they couldn't give me an answer. Basically they said if I purchase 5,000 points (or any amount) from them today for $9.20 per point there is currently no option to resale these points. If someone purchases points on the resale market you don't belong to the new Marriott Points Destination club. At this point Marriott doesn't allow resale owners in the points club; owners who have purchased resale weeks or owners who have purchased resale points.

Both reps told me that Marriott is working on something for Points owners who want to sell their points, possibly a resale broker or some official way to purchase points on the resale market.

But at this time if you purchase points from Marriott you have something with no resale value. It's worth nothing because Marriott will not recogonize a new owner in their points program.

So why would anyone spend $9,200 (or more) to buy points that have no resale value???

 

[LAR]

No Resale Value ?!

Well that is a very good point!!!

 

[davemy]

I really don't get peoples logic, when people say well i really don't get enough points for how i normally travel, so i'm going to join and maybe buy more points. (You can't beat them so i better join them! ) How about not join and try to make a STATEMENT! Maybe even look at another timeshare company. That what I'm gunna do.

 

[LAX Mom]

Well that is a very good point!!!

Several Marriott reps told me (on the phone) that if you purchase points this week and decide to sell them to me next week, I will not be able to enroll those points in the new points program. Currently you can only participate in the points program if you purchase points from Marriott or enroll a week that was purchased (from Marriott or resale) prior to June 20, 2010.

If you purchase points from someone other than Marriott you are out-of-luck. You can't be enrolled in the new system.

 

[davidvel]

Several Marriott reps told me (on the phone) that if you purchase points this week and decide to sell them to me next week, I will not be able to enroll those points in the new points program. Currently you can only participate in the points program if you purchase points from Marriott or enroll a week that was purchased (from Marriott or resale) prior to June 20, 2010.

If you purchase points from someone other than Marriott you are out-of-luck. You can't be enrolled in the new system.

Will these sales fools ever get anything right? It is an "interest" in real property, remember? If you buy points in the trust you have a right to re-sell them, subject to ROFR, and a $1 per point ROFR waiver fee (more than 10% of current price).

Then again, I guess they are right, you can sell them, just no chance in hell you'll recoup anything. Funny they are alrady scared of the points resale market.

 

[pfrank4127]

Just attended today!

Nothing real shocking that hasn't already been discussed but a few things stood out to me.

1. The sales rep said the cost of point is going up to $10 on 9/1/2010

2. The sales rep checked with the house attorney and said the point system was the same as the Disney system with regards to point allocation and raising the point requirements for a stay. When I pressed the issue and asked specifically that if points went up at e.g. Hilton Head Surf Watch week then they would be decreased another week specifically at Surf Watch or somewhere within the new "Trust", I never rec'd a specific answer only that they would be decreased. He also said that this is listed in writing in the initial public offering.

3. He claimed that over time the point inventory at sold out resorts would be 51% in the points program. His math was 36% of owners would trade in there weeks to the points program and 15% of the inventory would come from owners trading in there weeks for Marriott Reward points.

4. He didn't believe that I could sign up to enroll for the points program online and even went to double check with his manager. He was actually trying to scare us into converting/enrolling with "if you don't do it today it's going to be too late."

He actually got quite nasty when he realized we weren't going to sign up for anything today and asked why we attended today. I think he was suprised when I told him to learn from his experience.

 

[Bunk]

If the prices are going up from $9.00 to $10.00 on September 1, we should all hold off doing a sales presentation until after that date.
I know I will feel better knowing that I saved $10,000 by not buying 1,000 points instead of saving $9,000 by not buying those points.
LOL.

 

[siberiavol]

If the prices are going up from $9.00 to $10.00 on September 1, we should all hold off doing a sales presentation until after that date.
I know I will feel better knowing that I saved $10,000 by not buying 1,000 points instead of saving $9,000 by not buying those points.
LOL.

You gave me a whole new reason to take tours.

 

[gblotter]

season change for Maui Ocean Club?

... and the seasons changed for Maui Ocean Club versus 1-51 prior.

As a Maui Ocean Club owner, I have somehow missed this point. Can someone explain the season change for MMO?

 

[dougp26364]

As a Maui Ocean Club owner, I have somehow missed this point. Can someone explain the season change for MMO?

I think what they were refering to was that different weeks require different amounts of points. If MMO is typical of most resorts, the points given to an owner by Marriott aren't enough to reserve any week in ones original season.

 

[gblotter]

We are staying at Mountainside this week. There is a banner advertising the Destinations program, but nothing else. Nobody has contacted us for a presentation. There doesn't even seem to be anybody onsite from the sales team to answer questions. Curious circumstances. Perhaps Marriott isn't interested in recruiting non-platinum Mountainside weeks into the points pool.

I have no desire to join the points program, so no worries. But it would have been nice to collect 10K MRP points and watch the sales guy squirm with some of these tough questions.

 

[Cindala]

We are currently at Marriott's Grande Chateau and were contacted by phone and email to set up a time to attend the presentation. We never did, but they have called and left messages at least 4 or 5 times trying this week to get us to attend. We finally told them we just couldn't fit it into our schedule. I don't use Marriott Reward Points and my time is worth more than a $75 gift card. We're not joining.
I just found it very interesting that they would try so hard to get me; a single week Grande Vista Gold owner.(Orlando!)With the new points system, it would take me 3 years of points to get the 3bdrm unit I traded into through II with a 2bdrm gold. Grande Vista is a sneaky good trader, but the points I would receive in the new system do not reflect that in the least.

 

[dougp26364]

We are currently at Marriott's Grande Chateau and were contacted by phone and email to set up a time to attend the presentation. We never did, but they have called and left messages at least 4 or 5 times trying this week to get us to attend. We finally told them we just couldn't fit it into our schedule. I don't use Marriott Reward Points and my time is worth more than a $75 gift card. We're not joining.
I just found it very interesting that they would try so hard to get me; a single week Grande Vista Gold owner.(Orlando!)With the new points system, it would take me 3 years of points to get the 3bdrm unit I traded into through II with a 2bdrm gold. Grande Vista is a sneaky good trader, but the points I would receive in the new system do not reflect that in the least.

You're the perfect owner for them to target. One that would have to buy a significant number of points just to do what you've always been able to do in the weeks program.

 

[dioxide45]

The last several visits to Marriott timeshares we haven't been badgered with phone calls to take the tour. We were usually asked at the concierge desk when picking up our free gift if we wanted to take a tour. We declined and never got phone calls. Perhaps after all those tours of turning down their offers, they gave up.

I am sure the badgering will start again now that they have a new system. While it is nice to pick up 10-15K in MR points for a visit, it just never seems to be worth the time and trouble.

 

[dougp26364]

The last several visits to Marriott timeshares we haven't been badgered with phone calls to take the tour. We were usually asked at the concierge desk when picking up our free gift if we wanted to take a tour. We declined and never got phone calls. Perhaps after all those tours of turning down their offers, they gave up.

I am sure the badgering will start again now that they have a new system. While it is nice to pick up 10-15K in MR points for a visit, it just never seems to be worth the time and trouble.

There was absolutely no mention of the new program when we were at Mountain Valley lodge this past weekend. This sort of surprised me but, it didn't appear that they had any sales staff remaining on the property. I anticipate a push when we visit Ocean Pointe this fall. They have the new Oceana Palms resort to show off and I'm sure they'll want to try to induce us to purchasing enough additional points to upgrade us from our Ocean Pointe weeks to be able to stay at the newer Oceana Palms.

If we don't want to go, I'll just tell them upfront. If they persist, I'll tell them why. My bet is, if I have to tell them why, they'll be more than willing to stear clear of us the remainder of the week.

Then again I may decide that the one fee for all services will work for us so long as it includes full internet access. Then I'll be more than happy to take their incentive gift and sign up at the resort rather than sign up online and only recieve the bonus points.

There's still time to read, listen and think about which direction will work best for future needs. I see no reason to act now.