Greater "bang for the buck" Wyndham Resorts

[Cheryl20772]

I looked at some auctions for access points on Ebay and it looked like the main “plus” was that the points gave 13 month booking access to a large number of resorts (which seems desirable), while the main “minuses” were that (1) the points were slightly more expensive than some resorts, (2) I’m guessing they aren’t deeded, and (3) since I only saw auctions for 300k or more access points, I’m guessing that they are only available in larger quantities?

Access, by my definition, was developed by Wyndham as a way to dump and manage the contracts they want to take in trade as current owners are motivated to trade up and contracts they have to take back when current owners dump their contracts to foreclosure procedure. Wyndham has a definition problem when it comes to such "pre-owned" contracts. They can't really have a "used" timeshare sale as, technically, after it's been slept in once, there's no such thing as an unused timeshare. By pooling their used contracts into a separate trust, they can transfer ownership without going into the second hand contract business. They can also use Access as a dump for any other contracts that might be leftovers or otherwise hard to get rid of.

That said, Wyndham made the brilliant observation that they have been able to sell ever larger contracts to their current owners with far less manpower effort and expense than by snagging cold calls from the street with promises of free vacations and various other gifts. For the past few years one of their big sales hooks has been to offer current owners a chance to trade their smaller UDI contract for this shiney new Access contract that will guarantee them lower maintenance fees by averaging the fees from many resorts and give them ARP at so many more resorts than their current singleton.

I think this would be one big reason why you observe mainly larger Access points contracts for sale on eBay. They were trade-up contracts; rather than first time buyer contracts.

 

[ronparise]

Chreyl

If what you say is true. that access is a dumping ground for foreclosures, deed backs and trade ins, that the op's observation is also true, that the access pool will get larger over time. and the udi owner, like the fixed weeks owners, will become the red-headed stepchildren of the Wyndham system

I think its also important to note, that in addition to the trade ins, the Wyndham sales force will be happy to sell a "new" access contract. In fact (although I have nothing to back this up) I think thats the preferred sale at a number of the sales offices.

For the record, thats where I think Wyndham is going; to an all access Club, rather than deeded owners.

all salemen will tell you its easier to sell to an existing customer than to make a new one...Wyndham has just taken this to a new level.

 

[wyatt-wyatt]

A number of people on this thread have said that the "access" inventory is extremely limited and restricted to only a few resorts. The confusing thing is that the EBay auctions for these memberships seem to represent that they have the following features:

--13 month window to make advance reservations at 34 Wyndham resorts

--Ability to reserve at all other Wyndham resorts (that are not part of Access) within the normal 10 month reservation window.

From the posts so far, it appears that allow there might be 13 month access to 34 resorts, the number of rooms available during this window at each of these resorts is less than what is available to owners at that resort. Its not yet clear to me whether the room inventory available during the 10 month window is also smaller than that available to non-access owners booking at non-home resorts. Anyone know?

If not, then that might mean that I should at least investigate access more.

 

[learnalot]

A number of people on this thread have said that the "access" inventory is extremely limited and restricted to only a few resorts. The confusing thing is that the EBay auctions for these memberships seem to represent that they have the following features:

--13 month window to make advance reservations at 34 Wyndham resorts

--Ability to reserve at all other Wyndham resorts (that are not part of Access) within the normal 10 month reservation window.

From the posts so far, it appears that allow there might be 13 month access to 34 resorts, the number of rooms available during this window at each of these resorts is less than what is available to owners at that resort. Its not yet clear to me whether the room inventory available during the 10 month window is also smaller than that available to non-access owners booking at non-home resorts. Anyone know?

If not, then that might mean that I should at least investigate access more.

1) At 10 months, everything is in the same pool so it becomes irrelevant. 2) Ebay listings are hardly a source of authoritive information, however, assuming they are correct that CWA has inventory at 34 resorts, that does not speak to whether CWA has any substantial AMOUNT of inventory at those 34 resorts. During the ARP period, all reservations are limited to the inventory "owned" at each resort. In the case of CWA, the deeds CWA holds in the trust for any given resort is the inventory CWA "owns" which can be accessed by CWA members for ARP at that resort.

 

[ronparise]

This is from the Wyndham website...note the footnotes


The “home” resort(s) for CLUB WYNDHAM Access owners are all of the resorts which are part of the CLUB WYNDHAM Access Vacation Ownership Plan to the extent of the interests owned by CLUB WYNDHAM Access in each resort.



CLUB WYNDHAM® ACCESS RESORTS
What is it?

CLUB WYNDHAM Access owners have access to make
Advance Reservation Priority (ARP) reservations at the following resorts:

Arizona

Wyndham Flagstaff
Wyndham Sedona

Arkansas

Wyndham Resort at Fairfield Bay

California

Wyndham Harbour Lights
Wyndham Oceanside Pier Resort**

Colorado

Wyndham Durango
Wyndham Pagosa
Wyndham Vacation Resorts Steamboat Springs

Florida

Bay Club*
Star Island
Wyndham Bay Club II
Wyndham Beach Street Cottages*
Wyndham Bonnet Creek Resort
Wyndham Cypress Palms
Wyndham Palm-Aire
Wyndham Santa Barbara*
Wyndham Sea Gardens
Wyndham Vacation Resorts at Majestic Sun
Wyndham Vacation Resorts Emerald GrandeTM at Destin****
Wyndham Vacation Resorts Panama City Beach

Louisiana

Wyndham Avenue Plaza
Wyndham La Belle Maison

Maryland

Wyndham Vacation Resorts at National Harbor

Missouri

Wyndham Branson at The Falls
Wyndham Branson at The Meadows
Wyndham Mountain Vista

Nevada

Wyndham Grand Desert

New Jersey

Wyndham Skyline Tower

North Carolina

Fairfield Harbour
Wyndham Resort at Fairfield Mountains
Wyndham Resort at Fairfield Sapphire Valley

Pennsylvania

Wyndham Vacation Resorts Shawnee Village
- Crestview
Wyndham Vacation Resorts Shawnee Village
- Depuy*
Wyndham Vacation Resorts Shawnee Village
- Ridge Top*
Wyndham Vacation Resorts Shawnee Village
- River Village*

Rhode Island

Wyndham Bay Voyage Inn
Wyndham Inn on Long Wharf*
Wyndham Inn on the Harbor*
Wyndham Newport Onshore*
Wyndham Newport Overlook*

South Carolina

Wyndham at The Cottages*
Wyndham Ocean Boulevard*
Wyndham Ocean Ridge*
Wyndham Vacation Resorts Lake Marion
Wyndham Vacation Resorts Towers on the Grove at North Myrtle Beach
Wyndham Westwinds*

Tennessee

Wyndham Nashville
Wyndham Resort at Fairfield Glade
Wyndham Smoky Mountains
Wyndham Vacation Resorts Great Smokies Lodge

Texas

Wyndham La Cascada
Wyndham Riverside Suites

Vermont

Wyndham Vacation Resorts Smugglers' Notch Vermont®***

Virginia

Wyndham Governor’s Green
Wyndham Kingsgate*
Wyndham Patriots' Place*

Wisconsin

Wyndham Vacation Resorts at Glacier Canyon


*Only a very limited amount of inventory in this resort is currently a part of CLUB WYNDHAM Access. As such, the ability to obtain a reservation at this resort during the 13 to 10 month ARP window is currently very limited and should not be anticipated.
**The ARP window for Wyndham Oceanside Pier Resort is available for stays between Labor Day and May 31. From May 31 to Labor Day reservations may be requested during the Standard Reservation window.
***The ARP for Wyndham Vacation Resorts Smugglers’ Notch Vermont® currently has limited availability for the month of July. Reservation requests are currently not available for stays between December 16 and December 31.
****The Advance Reservation Priority for Wyndham Vacation Resorts Emerald GrandeTM at Destin is available for stays between February and December. Reservation requests are not available for stays in January.

 

[am1]

I have an argument as to why I think that National Harbor fees will stay low (but most everyone on tug disagrees with me)

That is not always a bad thing.

 

[ronparise]

That is not always a bad thing.

I hope not, as it has become an overriding theme in my life...I find myself writing the 'minority report' a lot

I really liked the Apple ads "Think Different"

 

[jebloomquist]

Wyndham seems to be playing both ends of the calendar.

On the Club Wyndham Access end they state how wonderful it is to book at 13 months. As far as Wyndham is concerned, nothing could be better than to have all of their properties booked at the full point value.

On the other end, Wyndham suggests to VIP owners that there will be all of these wonderful properties available to book at the 60-day mark. Actually, Wyndham would like them to already be booked.

I think that one aim of CWA is to get owners to book earlier at full point value by parading the 34 resorts as this wonderful 13-month possibility.

At my last presentation, the rep said how wonderful it would be for me to convert all of my points to CWA points and it would only cost me about $50K to get an addition 154k points in the process. Plus my maintenance fees would go down to about $5 per 1000. I told her that my current 2012 maintenance fees were $3.90 per 1000. She said oh no, and produced a sheet that showed that they were much higher. Well, then I produced a sheet showing what they actually were. Including everything, I pay $220 per month for a yearly average of 677k points. That ended the discussion concerning CWA Access.

They will say anything.

 

[rrlongwell]

... Plus my maintenance fees would go down to about $5 per 1000 ...

Does anyone know what the current maintance fees plus program fees are for Club Wyndham access?

 

[ronparise]

... Plus my maintenance fees would go down to about $5 per 1000 ...

Does anyone know what the current maintance fees plus program fees are for Club Wyndham access?

4.89/1000 plus the program fee

 

[rrlongwell]

... Plus my maintenance fees would go down to about $5 per 1000 ...

4.89/1000 plus the program fee

Thanks for the information.

 

[wyatt-wyatt]

From the previous posts, it seems clear that the "access" memberships may have the ability to book at a lot of resorts during the 13 month window, but the amount of units available at each of these resorts is very limited.

What I am still wondering is whether the inventory Access members can book at 10 months is the same as the 10 month inventory available to non-access members when booking outside of their home resorts (in other words, every single unit not yet booked is available to both access and non-access members as of the 10 month booking window).

 

[Cheryl20772]

From the previous posts, it seems clear that the "access" memberships may have the ability to book at a lot of resorts during the 13 month window, but the amount of units available at each of these resorts is very limited.

What I am still wondering is whether the inventory Access members can book at 10 months is the same as the 10 month inventory available to non-access members when booking outside of their home resorts (in other words, every single unit not yet booked is available to both access and non-access members as of the 10 month booking window).

Yes, at 10 months, Access ownership works the same, and has the same availability, as regular ownership.

 

[learnalot]

From the previous posts, it seems clear that the "access" memberships may have the ability to book at a lot of resorts during the 13 month window, but the amount of units available at each of these resorts is very limited.

What I am still wondering is whether the inventory Access members can book at 10 months is the same as the 10 month inventory available to non-access members when booking outside of their home resorts (in other words, every single unit not yet booked is available to both access and non-access members as of the 10 month booking window).

Yes. See my post #29 above.

 

[wyatt-wyatt]

OK, so since the Access memberships and deeded resort-specific memberships are the same when it comes to the 10 month booking window, my guess, based on the information posted her so far, is that Access memberships might be a better deal for me if I rarely utilize the 13 month booking window at my home resort (and instead generally use the 10 month booking window at other resorts). Access has less inventory outside in the 13 month window, but at least it has a little, which is better than nothing if I want to stay outside my home resort. Am I missing something?

Final question, does anyone have an idea of how much large-unit (3 & 4 BR) Bonnett Creek inventory is available in the 13 month Access membership booking window?

 

[learnalot]

Final question, does anyone have an idea of how much large-unit (3 & 4 BR) Bonnett Creek inventory is available in the 13 month Access membership booking window?

With the exception of fixed weeks, inventory is not allocated this way in the Wyndham system. That is, there is no particular number of 3 or 4 bedroom units that belong to either the Access side or the UDI side, rather there are a certain (unknown and moving target) number of points "owned" on each side. These points can be used up to their limits for reservations during the ARP period at the home resort(s) - in your question, Bonnet Creek. For the sake of discussion and illustration, I will plug in some numbers - they are scaled down but I think you will get the gist. Let's deal with 848k, which would be the cost for 2 4BR Pres in prime season. Owning 848K, either in Access or UDI does not GUARANTEE you will be able to reserve those 2 4BR Presidentials say at Christmas (or any other particular week) because your points do not represent the availability of any actual unit size, they are simply the currency you would use to reserve an available unit. If all the 3 or 4BR units have been reserved, you would have to spend your points for different unit sizes and/or dates and/or locations.

One other point to consider, with Access, all the Access owners have the ability to "spend" the Access ARP inventory at any given resort. Once it has been "spent", it is gone and no additional ARP reservations at that particular resort will be available to Access owners. With UDI, while it is possible a UDI owner will not necessarily be able to reserve a PARTICULAR highly desirable week (everyone cannot reserve Christmas week, for instance, as their is not enough inventory), there would not be cases where they were unable to make an ARP reservation because all the ARP had been "spent".

 

[djohn75087]

question about access/udi

We were at Nashville and during our update the guy told me that UDI/access memberships do not have special assessments. I would have just assumed he was telling a lie, but he didn't try to sell us points. We own 385k resale and we were hit with a $374 dollar SA at Pagosa this yr. My MF's are $4.50 per k including program fee but did I make a mistake in not buying UDI.

 

[rrlongwell]

We were at Nashville and during our update the guy told me that UDI/access memberships do not have special assessments. I would have just assumed he was telling a lie, but he didn't try to sell us points. We own 385k resale and we were hit with a $374 dollar SA at Pagosa this yr. My MF's are $4.50 per k including program fee but did I make a mistake in not buying UDI.

Buy what you want to use. The salesperson is not exactly right. Special Assessments can hit any form of ownership in one way or another. With your relatively low maintance fees, at the amount of the Special Assessment you paid, it appears you can take a number of these over the years and still be money ahead compared to higher maintance fees properties that would also include Wyndham program fees and other related costs for points based contracts.

 

[Cheryl20772]

We were at Nashville and during our update the guy told me that UDI/access memberships do not have special assessments. I would have just assumed he was telling a lie, but he didn't try to sell us points. We own 385k resale and we were hit with a $374 dollar SA at Pagosa this yr. My MF's are $4.50 per k including program fee but did I make a mistake in not buying UDI.

I'm confused by "UDI/access memberships " in your post. Are you equating the two in relation to SA's?
What are your resale points? If they are not Access, they must be either UDI or converted week?

My understanding: the difference between UDI and Access for SA is UDI owners all pay a share proportional to their number of points in the single resort they own for any SA; whereas, Access owners (own points ranging over many resorts in a pool) would pay only a fraction according to how many points they own, but that fraction is spread out over the whole Access pool. What Access does is minimize the impact on the individual Access owner when one resort in the pool has a SA. Someone has to pay it. I don't see how they would get away from it entirely.

Can any Access owners better explain how it works? Have there been any SA's yet in the Access resort pool?

 

[pacodemountainside]

I purchased a CWA contract a couple years ago and am somewhat familar. At the time I could get either a 154K CWA contact that was originally deeded at GD or a UDI contract for proverbial buck. Since CWA Developer contracts were going for about 20% premium I went with it.

I have found it to be like most products with a sales driven organization. Last time I counted about 56 of 72 Wyndham resorts had a least a few points but using has been impossible. My last try was at month 13, 8:00AM ET for week 5 and 6 for 2013 at AVP or LBM. Plenty of ARP inventory but no CWA, try at 10 month mark. Same with Daytona 500, spring break, Christmas, etc, weeks.. There is so little CWA inventory at red hot resorts for red hot weeks to render useless. Also, since booking at prime time need a lot of points i.e. 166K for 1 BR at BC. Cheryl is correct in her analysis. It costs so much to operate a resort over say a ten year period. Preferably the costs will be spread equally over that period, but Developers like to keep MF low and many Boards do not understand accounting(depreciation). So, if adequate reserves are not provided from day 1 a special assessment is guaranted when roofs leak, parking lots get pot holes, heating/cooling systems fail, etc. Ball park about 20% of HOA fee or a dollar should be going into reserves! If CWA pays special assessment it just spreads over all points.

Of course, if a hurricane hits and no flood insurance there will be one. I own at Nashville and did not get one so they must have had adequate reserves and insurance. Also, most insurance does not provide for betterment coverage(bring up to current code) and this requires special assessment a la AVP.

Of course, sales people point out that CWA has ROFR which is worthless and just delays resale a month.

Thinking about it, if one has a fixed vacation schedule they are going to buy to get ARP at favorite resort, no way take a chance on using CWA! So, the possibility of someone wanting Bonnet Creek, ski resort or beach resort buying a CWA contract is slim to none.

As Ron mentioned 2012 HOA fee is $4.89 / 1,000K up $.02 from last year!

We do get to elect our Board unlike VOI Trust where Wyndham potentates are appointed as dictators.