Grand Vista Resale

[dioxide45]

That's exactly how I use mine. I've never traded for anything less than a 2BR and have stayed in 3BR units (at Grande Vista) using my studio.

That is exactly it. The value isn't in buying Grande Vista to go to Orlando and I don't know why I keep seeing that comparison here and in other threads. I suspect it is by people that don't understand trading.

Truth is, Grande Vista is still the third cheapest lock off trader (outside AP) of all Marriott weeks. Cheapest being Willow Ridge Lodge, second Grand Chateau and third being Grande Vista.

 

[chriskre]

That is exactly it. The value isn't in buying Grande Vista to go to Orlando and I don't know why I keep seeing that comparison here and in other threads. I suspect it is by people that don't understand trading.

Truth is, Grande Vista is still the third cheapest lock off trader (outside AP) of all Marriott weeks. Cheapest being Willow Ridge Lodge, second Grand Chateau and third being Grande Vista.

I think that's the case with most Orlando TS's except of course DVC.
You buy in Orlando to go elsewhere and I buy the getaways and last calls.

I just bought an EOY MGV lock off to trade to go elsewhere in the Marriott, Hyatt and DVC systems in II.
I did own a cheaper CMV trader but I can't travel enough to justify 6-10 weeks of travel a year so
I downgraded to an EOY Marriott. Yeah it's more expensive per week but cheaper than maintaining
a yearly unit. Most of my portfolio now is EOY units except for DVC. Even then I still get lots of
vacations. If I need an extra week at the beach I buy a getaway. Luckily I live in FL, land of TS's.

 

[gravityrules]

That is exactly it. The value isn't in buying Grande Vista to go to Orlando and I don't know why I keep seeing that comparison here and in other threads. I suspect it is by people that don't understand trading.

Truth is, Grande Vista is still the third cheapest lock off trader (outside AP) of all Marriott weeks. Cheapest being Willow Ridge Lodge, second Grand Chateau and third being Grande Vista.

I think you are seeing that comparison because of the 'buy where you want to visit' TUG axiom and the corollary 'trading power and/or trading rules are not contractually guaranteed to not change over time'.

Isn't the whole trading system for a Marriott TS worth less than annual MF (as determined by market rental rates) being artificially propped up by Marriott?

 

[dioxide45]

I think you are seeing that comparison because of the 'buy where you want to visit' TUG axiom and the corollary 'trading power and/or trading rules are not contractually guaranteed to not change over time'.

Isn't the whole trading system for a Marriott TS worth less than annual MF (as determined by market rental rates) being artificially propped up by Marriott?

I think most would compare the cost of owning to trade to the cost of maintenance fees of the resort one exchange into. Or perhaps even the similar cost of trading using Club Points when doing Marriott to Marriott exchanges.

The main question, is the value of a week impacted by the cost of exchanging. Exchanging is getting more and more expensive. Both from the maintenance fees of the owned week along with II transaction fees. The excange fee for Marriott to Marriott went up $40 not that long ago. With exchange fees, II membership fee, upgrade fees and the underlying maintneance fee, the cost of a week can be significant. Using Grande Vista as an example and locking off, getting two exchanges and upgrading both to 2BR units is approaching $3000 total. That works out to $1500 per week.

 

[Pamplemousse]

I think most would compare the cost of owning to trade to the cost of maintenance fees of the resort one exchange into. Or perhaps even the similar cost of trading using Club Points when doing Marriott to Marriott exchanges.

The main question, is the value of a week impacted by the cost of exchanging. Exchanging is getting more and more expensive. Both from the maintenance fees of the owned week along with II transaction fees. The excange fee for Marriott to Marriott went up $40 not that long ago. With exchange fees, II membership fee, upgrade fees and the underlying maintneance fee, the cost of a week can be significant. Using Grande Vista as an example and locking off, getting two exchanges and upgrading both to 2BR units is approaching $3000 total. That works out to $

 

[andre10056]

The auction for a 2 BR Platinum "Florida Club" Lockoff at Grande Vista that was "advertised" above just closed on ebay. The buyer, whose usage was to begin in 2027, obviously did not have to pay any maintenance fees. Moreover, the SELLER is to pay ALL of the following: $550 for the escrow, doc prep, and closing; $100 for the county recording fee; and $120 for the resort transfer fee (a total of $770).

Apparently, the seller used an ebay sales agent and we don't know what was charged for that.

Winning bid was $810. Very active auction.

Marriott's Grande Vista Timeshare Orlando Florida Platinum Season | eBay

Marriott's Grande Vista. Marriott Reserves the right of first refusal . Refresh in the cool waters of our outdoor pools and energize your body in our fitness center. Perfect your swing at Grande Vista Golf Club or take a few lessons from the experts at Marriott Golf Academy.

www.ebay.com

I'd say in light of the active auction and the highlighting of this auction on this thread, that's a pretty good determination of "true value"....which is NEGATIVE in light of seller costs (including whatever was paid to the sales agent).

 

[dioxide45]

The auction for a 2 BR Platinum "Florida Club" Lockoff at Grande Vista that was "advertised" above just closed on ebay. The buyer, whose usage was to begin in 2027, obviously did not have to pay any maintenance fees. Moreover, the SELLER is to pay ALL of the following: $550 for the escrow, doc prep, and closing; $100 for the county recording fee; and $120 for the resort transfer fee (a total of $770).

Apparently, the seller used an ebay sales agent and we don't know what was charged for that.

Winning bid was $810. Very active auction.

Marriott's Grande Vista Timeshare Orlando Florida Platinum Season | eBay

Marriott's Grande Vista. Marriott Reserves the right of first refusal . Refresh in the cool waters of our outdoor pools and energize your body in our fitness center. Perfect your swing at Grande Vista Golf Club or take a few lessons from the experts at Marriott Golf Academy.

www.ebay.com

I'd say in light of the active auction and the highlighting of this auction on this thread, that's a pretty good determination of "true value"....which is NEGATIVE in light of seller costs (including whatever was paid to the sales agent).

Say the seller had to pay $1500 to the sales agent to have that week listed. Does that make the value -$1500? The owner of that week could have also paid $400 to Marriott for a deed back. That would make the week worth -$400. The owner could have listed it themselves, paid the closing of $300 to LT Transfers, the recording fee of about $35 (it was inflated in the auction listing) and the transfer and ROFR to Marriott of $120. $810-$300-$35-$120. That would make the week worth +$355 minus any fees to list the week for sale (if any).

 

[andre10056]

Say the seller had to pay $1500 to the sales agent to have that week listed. Does that make the value -$1500? The owner of that week could have also paid $400 to Marriott for a deed back. That would make the week worth -$400. The owner could have listed it themselves, paid the closing of $300 to LT Transfers, the recording fee of about $35 (it was inflated in the auction listing) and the transfer and ROFR to Marriott of $120. $810-$300-$35-$120. That would make the week worth +$355 minus any fees to list the week for sale (if any).

Actually, the title company charging $550 was not THAT much inflated because it involves "escrow". LTS Transfer, too, charges to hold money (I think $200) until disbursement at closing...so they would also charge ballpark $500 (MAYBE, therefore $50 less). In any case, even with your assumptions, you've set out that the true SALES value is in a range between perhaps very negative to perhaps plus $355.

To me, that extremely low value is a reflection of other far less costly rental opportunities being available in Orlando.

Contrast that with what Galleon, Key West units are selling for with Key West rentals being few and far between and at the highest dollar amount.

You seem bothered by my analysis and I'm not sure why.

 

[dioxide45]

Actually, the title company charging $550 was not THAT much inflated because it involves "escrow". LTS Transfer, too, charges to hold money (I think $200) until disbursement at closing...so they would also charge ballpark $500 (MAYBE, therefore $50 less). In any case, even with your assumptions, you've set out that the true SALES value is in a range between perhaps very negative to perhaps plus $355.

To me, that extremely low value is a reflection of other far less costly rental opportunities being available in Orlando.

Contrast that with what Galleon, Key West units are selling for with Key West rentals being few and far between and at the highest dollar amount.

You seem bothered by my analysis and I'm not sure why.

I'm not bothered by the analysis. It is just that you keep comparing the value based on rental opportunities in Orlando as the valuation when that isn't it at all. People, who are buying Grande Vista, generally aren't doing so to use it to go to Orlando. They can buy any timeshare that is with II or RCI and get cheap rentals. They are buying Grande Vista for the value (or lack of) in the ability to trade it into other Marriott resorts. Is there less value trading into other Marriott resorts today? I think so. The value connection isn't with how much it costs to rent Orlando. That isn't different today than it was 20 years ago when a Platinum Grande Vista week sold resale for $10,000. The suppressed resale pricing is with how much more it costs to trade in the system and perhaps just less demand for timeshares as a whole.

Adding, it perhaps has more to do with rental prices across the entire system vs. just rental rates in Orlando. Can you rent a week somewhere for less than the $1500 it costs to exchange just one half of the MGV lock off?

 

[dioxide45]

You seem bothered by my analysis and I'm not sure why.

Thinking about this some more. I may not be fully on board with your analysis. You are looking at a single auction from a single day from eBay. eBay is known as bottom of the barrel. Just because you and I may be willing to buy off eBay, not everyone is comfortable buying there. There are many people who won't even do private rental transactions and would rather rent from Marriott.com EBay is filled mostly with distressed weeks where the owners don't even know they are listed there. They have a limited 7 to 10 day auction run. They represent only a tiny fraction of the overall market.

We wouldn't necessarily expect an auction of a home from an estate to represent the overall market value of that home and homes like it. That's what eBay is for a single auction. The value of that item at that time given the circumstance.

 

[andre10056]

Thinking about this some more. I may not be fully on board with your analysis. You are looking at a single auction from a single day from eBay. eBay is known as bottom of the barrel. Just because you and I may be willing to buy off eBay, not everyone is comfortable buying there. There are many people who won't even do private rental transactions and would rather rent from Marriott.com EBay is filled mostly with distressed weeks where the owners don't even know they are listed there. They have a limited 7 to 10 day auction run. They represent only a tiny fraction of the overall market.

We wouldn't necessarily expect an auction of a home from an estate to represent the overall market value of that home and homes like it. That's what eBay is for a single auction. The value of that item at that time given the circumstance.

I'm not so sure I agree with you there. I think that virtually all timeshare owners with even a tiny understanding of timeshares would know that buying a Grande Vista Platinum 2 BR from a developer gets you the same Grande Vista Platinum 2 BR that you buy resale and, furthermore, gets you the same Grande Vista Platinum 2 BR that you buy from an ebay auction. Therefore, with these auctions, ebay is NOT "known as the bottom of the barrel".

I've heard plumbers tell me that the baseboard heating lengths that you buy from Home Depot are lesser quality than the baseboard heating lengths that you buy from a plumbing supply house. Something about the copper tubing is made of thicker and/or better copper that is more resistant to a freeze. That may or not be true so there may or may not be a qualitative difference in THAT, but there's certainly no difference in the same exact category of timeshare bought on ebay.

Not to mention the fact that the ebay sales agent in the afore-mentioned auction has 671 positive feedbacks averaging a perfect 100% (wow!). I don't know of any feedback for developer or non-ebay resale sellers.

 

[dioxide45]

I'm not so sure I agree with you there. I think that virtually all timeshare owners with even a tiny understanding of timeshares would know that buying a Grande Vista Platinum 2 BR from a developer gets you the same Grande Vista Platinum 2 BR that you buy resale and, furthermore, gets you the same Grande Vista Platinum 2 BR that you buy from an ebay auction. Therefore, with these auctions, ebay is NOT "known as the bottom of the barrel".

I've heard plumbers tell me that the baseboard heating lengths that you buy from Home Depot are lesser quality than the baseboard heating lengths that you buy from a plumbing supply house. Something about the copper tubing is made of thicker and/or better copper that is more resistant to a freeze. That may or not be true so there may or may not be a qualitative difference in THAT, but there's certainly no difference in the same exact category of timeshare bought on ebay.

Not to mention the fact that the ebay sales agent in the afore-mentioned auction has 671 positive feedbacks averaging a perfect 100% (wow!). I don't know of any feedback for developer or non-ebay resale sellers.

You're still missing the point. Ebay is NOT the only place that timeshares are bought and sold. You also missed, or ignored, the comparison to an property auction out of an estate.

 

[andre10056]

You're still missing the point. Ebay is NOT the only place that timeshares are bought and sold. You also missed, or ignored, the comparison to an property auction out of an estate.

No I didn't miss your argument about a "property auction out of an estate" not "represent(ing) the overall market value of that home and homes like it". That's because you're making an apples to oranges" comparison. A home may very well be unique. You have to have all interested parties tour through the property over a possibly lengthy period of time as compared to a "random near date" estate auction (which may or may not allow people to tour through the home).

But a timeshare? One Platinum 2 BR Lockoff at Grande Vista is like all other 2 BR Lockoffs at Grande Vista. Definitely not unique and definitely doesn't require one to do an in person inspection. An auction is a very much appropriate and efficient way to sell one ownership.

 

[pedro47]

Orlando is overbuilt by all the timeshare and hotel developers bringing the resale prices down.

 

[Big Matt]

The way I look at my timeshares is very simple: How many days/weeks of vacation can I get for my weeks/points and how much does it cost in terms of fees. Yes, I'm very frugal with my points and try to get Sunday-Thursday stays and combine it with a week that I trade for or even two S-Th with a weekend where I pay cash or use Bonvoy points. It's just a matter of how hard you try. As posted in other threads, we avoid high seasons whenever we can.