Grand Lodge on Peak 7

[czar]

Boy, this discussion has been of great value and a real learning experience – all within a very short time.

THANKS TO EVERYONE WHO HAS PARTICIPATED – I have learned a lot (and one of the things that I have learned – there is sure a lot more to be learned!)

You all are obviously “experienced shoppers” within the timeshare industry. I presume that all of your vast knowledge has evolved over time and it would be most interesting to know what your “first involvement” with timeshares might have been.

You are all swaying me to look at other options. Trouble is – I have spent some time and have viewed the location that I am considering. I have at least a little knowledge about that product. On the other hand, I know nothing – absolutely NOTHING – about:

• Points
• Trading properties
• The differences between the firms that provide the “trading” service – RCI, II, SFX and the others that I don’t even know to ask about.

If someone wants to take more time or point me into the right direction (web link) I’m ready to accept the knowledge.

It seems as if many of you have bought into properties that you have never visited or ever planned to use but have been able to “pick up” properties or points at a very low cost (sometimes NO cost) and have then been able to use this to trade for locations that you have enjoyed a great deal. I don’t know if that is a fair statement or not – let me know if it isn’t. I will admit that I have difficulty “in getting my arms around” the concept of purchasing a product that I have never seen and have very little knowledge of – and yet with everyone’s input I’m trying to at least make that a consideration.
Let me ask:

• Are there two groups (and I would presume many more than 2) of timeshare owners? Group #1- Those that purchase in the area in which they desire to vacation in. Use for family gatherings and then pass along to their children or simply enjoy using themselves? Group#2-Those that have little or no intent to use the property they have purchased and from the “get go” plan on always trading it for another location?

• Are there ANY timeshares (while I know the number must be few) that actually maintain at least a stable valuation (certainly not the original developer price) due to their unique desired location, amenities, ambiance etc. Now I can well understand that timeshares in say, Orlando, Fl. (forgive me, owners of Orlando timeshares) because of their sheer numbers, would devaluate – the newest and latest timeshare will always be better. Conversely, a timeshare that were built on a mountain side that doesn’t allow for any further development (due to US Forest service regulations) would be more likely to sustain at least some value – at least in my way of thinking. Is “my thinking” way off? Or perhaps a timeshare on a secluded beach may be another truly unique property.

Please answer me this - Have there been ANY timeshares that have proven this “desirability” and have retained at least some consistent value over a 15, 20, 25 or 30 year period??? And now, for the unthinkable - has there ever been known to mankind – a timeshare that actually increased in value (on the secondary market) obviously, due to demand? Have the ever increasing costs of home owner dues even driven away the property owners of what may have been a very desirable area?

I’ll look forward to and appreciate more of the group’s discussion (and possible debate) on the topics I have raised.

Jack

As stated by bdh, your questions cover a lot of ground and my guess is that's why there was a fall off in activity on this thread. Likely, one of the questions would have sparked discussion and debate, but you have a lot of questions here, and there are a lot of intricacies. I spent a long time perusing the forum before joining, and then I spent even more time researching - months - before making my first purchase, and then since that time, I've learned even more. My advice to you, FWIW, is to chunk ech one of your questions as you have and find the right topic on the forum to research your answers. If you want to learn more about exchanging, check out the exchange section. There is a good breakdown of the main TS systems in the section on them.

When I read between the lines, it seems like this is where you want to own and you're trying to rationalize it. The nice thing like any other purchase is it's your purchase to make. If you feel it's a good deal and it's a place you want to go regularly, and your happy with the market for it, then it makes sense for you. Just understand that likely, it will depreciate in value over time. Can it appreciate? Sure, but the number of TS that hold their value or appreciate from the developer pricing is limited. There are, however, good values out there and some prices in the resale market are ticking up.

Prior to joining TUG, I bought a fractional ownership at a ski resort we love. I'm glad I bought it. We've gotten a lot of use, and perks, from it. Many memories. Was it a good value? It's lost about 1/2 its value in 7 years. Now, I'm in a different place, and my TS investments follow a different track. I would buy (and am looking to) another unit at Killington, but would go in with a very different perspective and strategy. It's what works for you.

So I would encourage you to do a lot of reading on here and make a list of questions as you go along. The more you read, the more you'll be able to answer, and the more new questions you'll have!

 

[sgtdesi]

My DH and I own 3 fixed weeks in a fixed unit at GL7. We had to buy from the developer to do this. But we wanted to go to this location the same time every year and not have the hassle of checking in and out, loading all our stuff, etc. We also wanted to lock in a nice unit. We had to pay for it though. Are we happy owners? For the most part yes. Do timeshare salespeople lie? Yes they do. But we do love our time in Breckenridge and working a little overtime to help pay for it is a fair trade. We did not buy it as an investment, more as a luxury. I view it as those few times I pay first class airfare. I am throwing money away but sometimes I just want to be pampered. My job is stressful and sometimes I just want to hit the easy button. Our ski vacation is our most favorite thing we do. We were willing to spend the money to make it hassle free.

I have found it easy to get II trades or escapes into GL7 for everything but ski season. The studios do show up occasionally but not often. I keep an eye out in case we want to have a group come skiing. I use my WKV to look. I would not buy outside of ski season as you can get those pretty easily. We always buy an escape in late summer. Makes more sense than giving the unit to GL7 for points as we can get more value renting it out if we don't use it. For the most part, we bought to use. We bring friends with us often, but if we don't we rent the studio side.

We understand we will lose money and our intent isn't to try to justify our purchase financially. It can't be done. We can only justify it with the enjoyment we get out of using it hassle free.

If you have specific questions send me a pm.

 

[twinmommy19]

My DH and I own 3 fixed weeks in a fixed unit at GL7. We had to buy from the developer to do this. But we wanted to go to this location the same time every year and not have the hassle of checking in and out, loading all our stuff, etc. We also wanted to lock in a nice unit. We had to pay for it though.

As an owner - you get day use privileges there right? Also - I remember looking on their website (or maybe it was Grand Timber) years back and I seem to recall they have a bonus time program too where you can reserve at the last minute for very cheap.

If these benefits exist - it actually seems reasonable to me for a family within driving distance of the Colorado ski areas to buy there (Vail Resorts makes it hard not to buy the season passes they are so reasonable - for a local season pass holder - the storage and parking privilege is huge).

 

[ondeadlin]

1) The Colorado Hyatt deeds require you to buy floater offseason points too (I'm pretty sure all the winter deeds are set up that way though I could be wrong). Those floater points do not get good value for the maintenance fee and you are stuck with them.

This is true. I actually wouldn't recommend that someone buy into one of the Hyatt Colorado fractionals to ski Colorado. You're much better off buying a single Diamond week at one of the other resorts, like Sedona, where I own.

If you own at one of the other resorts, it's very easy to reserve time at Breck, Aspen or Beaver Creek. I've gotten reservations at all three properties, at the times I wanted them (not 52 or 53, just haven't tried), the key is planning a year in advance.

And, again, Hyatt trades into GL7 and Grand Timber pretty easily.

 

[twinmommy19]

If you own at one of the other resorts, it's very easy to reserve time at Breck, Aspen or Beaver Creek. I've gotten reservations at all three properties, at the times I wanted them (not 52 or 53, just haven't tried), the key is planning a year in advance.

Wow - that's interesting. I wouldn't have thought it would be that easy. Reports from Marriott owners are that prime winter at Marriott Mountainside in Utah are difficult trades for anything other than studios... I'm surprised owners of these weeks ever give them up.

 

[ondeadlin]

Wow - that's interesting. I wouldn't have thought it would be that easy. Reports from Marriott owners are that prime winter at Marriott Mountainside in Utah are difficult trades for anything other than studios... I'm surprised owners of these weeks ever give them up.

Don't think of it as a trade. It's not a trade. It's an internal system reservation for anyone who owns in the Hyatt system.

The way Hyatt works everyone has equal access to available weeks 6 months out. There is no owner advantage at a particular property.

So if you attempt to make a reservation 1 year out, and there is no availability, you have top priority on the waiting list. When the week becomes available at 6 months, top priority on the waiting list gets it.
This type of reservation doesn't really exist for Marriott weeks owners. They have to trade in via II, which (IMO) is a more complicated proposition for a variety of reasons. I'm not sure how Marriott's new points system works in that regard.

 

[twinmommy19]

Don't think of it as a trade. It's not a trade. It's an internal system reservation for anyone who owns in the Hyatt system.

The way Hyatt works everyone has equal access to available weeks 6 months out. There is no owner advantage at a particular property.

I know... Honestly - I just wouldn't have figured owner there would choose to take the points rather than reserve their deeded week and rent it out - that's all. Those weeks rent for a lot more than the weeks in Sedona, Key West, etc. So theoretically an owner could reserve their week, rent it out, and use the money to go where they want.

 

[csxjohn]

...Our ski vacation is our most favorite thing we do. We were willing to spend the money to make it hassle free.
.

You have your head on straight.

We all have favorite things to do. I hate when I hear people say, "Oh, you spent way too much money on doing that."

They just can't measure the enjoyment people get out of some things. Skiing is not my thing but I can understand spending extra to make it the way you want it.

 

[ondeadlin]

I know... Honestly - I just wouldn't have figured owner there would choose to take the points rather than reserve their deeded week and rent it out - that's all. Those weeks rent for a lot more than the weeks in Sedona, Key West, etc. So theoretically an owner could reserve their week, rent it out, and use the money to go where they want.

A lot of folks find renting a hassle. Some folks mean to rent, but just lose track of the time and don't do it before the 6 month point, at which point their week automatically deposits. And I'm sure many do rent.

But even with the wait list, there's still some ski inventory that makes it through and sits on the website waiting for anyone to grab. A lot of it at the older Tahoe Property and Beaver Creek. Why? My guess is that not many folks use the wait list and not too many folks at other properties have enough points to grab it.

 

[sgtdesi]

As an owner - you get day use privileges there right? Also - I remember looking on their website (or maybe it was Grand Timber) years back and I seem to recall they have a bonus time program too where you can reserve at the last minute for very cheap.

If these benefits exist - it actually seems reasonable to me for a family within driving distance of the Colorado ski areas to buy there (Vail Resorts makes it hard not to buy the season passes they are so reasonable - for a local season pass holder - the storage and parking privilege is huge).

Yes you do get day use and bonus time opportunities as an owner. We have been hit and miss with bonus time during the winter and summer but when you do find something it is reasonable. We paid $59 a night for a 1 bedroom during the summer.

 

[sgtdesi]

You have your head on straight.

We all have favorite things to do. I hate when I hear people say, "Oh, you spent way too much money on doing that."

They just can't measure the enjoyment people get out of some things. Skiing is not my thing but I can understand spending extra to make it the way you want it.

Thanks. You make a good point, most everyone has their thing they like to do. Ours is skiing.

 

[twinmommy19]

Yes you do get day use and bonus time opportunities as an owner. We have been hit and miss with bonus time during the winter and summer but when you do find something it is reasonable. We paid $59 a night for a 1 bedroom during the summer.

That's what I thought. This is a pretty major benefit IMO at a ski resort, for someone who can drive there (obviously the last minute arrangements don't work if you have to book airfare). I posted this about Grand Peak Lodge on another thread in the Western forum. Someone had purchased a summer week from the developer (for the day use / storage privileges) and I recall lots of folks kept saying the OP should have bought resale Marriott and Hyatt instead. It really depends what you are looking for and I pointed out that for someone living within a short driving distance of Breckenridge looking for parking / ski storage access specifically - a Grand Peak non-winter week might make more sense than buying Marriott / Hyatt offseason or another location during Platinum season to trade into. At grand Peak you have to buy from the developer for day privileges, but depending on how much it cost still may not be a bad deal. Even if it cost 10K to buy a Grand Peak summer studio, a full season of parking and ski storage for a family costs at least 1K so that owner will make up the cost of not buying resale over a 10 year period. Also - I imagine the maintenance on that Grand Peak Studio is a fraction of the maintenance on even the cheapest Marriott (certainly the one in Colorado). Plus you don't get the bonus time privileges during ski season at the franchise properties.

 

[csxjohn]

... Even if it cost 10K to buy a Grand Peak summer studio, a full season of parking and ski storage for a family costs at least 1K so that owner will make up the cost of not buying resale over a 10 year period. ...

I would do a lot of research before spending that kind of money expecting day use and parking year round.

I suspect that during peak ski season when the resort may be at 100% capacity someone trying to park or get day use may not get it. What the sales team tells you and what is true are often different.

 

[ondeadlin]

At grand Peak you have to buy from the developer for day privileges, but depending on how much it cost still may not be a bad deal.

A key point: Day privileges may be guaranteed, but parking isn't. It becomes much less of deal IMO if you can't park. You have to call in advance to reserve parking, and if the resort is full (as it will always be during ski season), there is very little parking available. Now imagine how many non-ski-season owners are being sold on this plan when you consider summer weeks, mud season weeks, an every-other-year weeks ... plus ski week owners seeking day privileges when they're not in residence, of course ... some crazy numbers if you think about it.

Also - I imagine the maintenance on that Grand Peak Studio is a fraction of the maintenance on even the cheapest Marriott (certainly the one in Colorado).

It depends on how you define fraction, I guess. I know the MF on a spring/fall 1BR are $470. My MF on a Hyatt Diamond week are under $900. I can split that week for three full weeks in a ski week Hyatt studio if I wanted, so - if broken down - my MF for a studio are actually either very comparable with, or cheaper than, the MFs at Peak 7.

And that's for a ski week in a studio - obviously I'd get a ton more value for a low season spring/fall week.


BTW, I believe you get day use with a resale purchase at Grand Timber Lodge, the sister property. So, if you wanted, you could buy a spring/fall week there for $500 (they're on eBay regularly) and get the same benefits for a whole lot less. It's an older property, but still extremely nice.

 

[rickandcindy23]

They can take away parking and/or day use, at any time. It's a sales pitch, and when the sales team is gone, and owners of weeks are having a difficult time parking their cars to stay during their weeks, those owners are going to be complaining.

You get a bunch of ski week owners complaining, and the HOA is going to relent and only give parking privileges to those owners who paid the most. More likely, they will take away the parking privileges completely from everyone when not using their weeks.

Extra parking could become another amenity they charge to use, or they could use that space to add a totally new amenity, so now there is no room for extra cars. Buying anything in any season with this promise is folly. The HOA has the power to change the official declarations at any time. Just takes a lawyer.

If I were an owner of three ski weeks, I would want to be on the Board of Directors, hopefully for the rest of my life, so I could protect the promised benefits I am counting on.

We have had so many people come to TUG and say they bought or thought of buying, specifically for these benefits of free parking and day use. Even a few Denver firefighters Rick works with have fallen for the line. Rick does not know as much as I do about the nuances of exchanging and the various systems, etc., but he knew a sales pitch when he heard it. He was incredulous when he found out those two guys bought at GP7 for parking/ day use.

 

[pacodemountainside]

Bonus time and day use at GTR are nice but are limited.

If one is on a budget makes more sense to jump off I-70 at Frisco and go to Bus Transfer Station behind Safeway. You can park free and hop an express shuttle bus with ski racks to all ski resorts for free and get off close to lifts.

Also, often can get discount lift tickets at stores there!

 

[twinmommy19]

If one is on a budget makes more sense to jump off I-70 at Frisco and go to Bus Transfer Station behind Safeway. You can park free and hop an express shuttle bus with ski racks to all ski resorts for free and get off close to lifts.

Yes - of course there are plenty of options like this but it seems pretty safe to assume that lugging ski gear from the shuttle bus parking lot wasn't what that family had in mind. (I'm not a fan of having to lug equipment from point A to B to C.) In the case I'm referring to - the poster was considering whether to either A) PAY the fee for an annual seasonal locker storage at Breck (I know at our dinky mountains in the Tri-state area this is not cheap) or B) synthetically accomplish the same thing via the purchase of a TS that allows you to store your gear.

I'd imagine that the long term ski storage space would not be the issue as much as the parking. Is there any other general parking on Peak 7 or is the hotel it? It obviously defeats the purpose of having the storage privilege if there are no other parking options on Peak 7. I don't know anything about Colorado but I do know that the bonus time privileges are great for Vermont owners (of course they own 13 week fractionals so it may be different).

 

[twinmommy19]

They can take away parking and/or day use, at any time. It's a sales pitch, and when the sales team is gone, and owners of weeks are having a difficult time parking their cars to stay during their weeks, those owners are going to be complaining.

You get a bunch of ski week owners complaining, and the HOA is going to relent and only give parking privileges to those owners who paid the most. More likely, they will take away the parking privileges completely from everyone when not using their weeks.

It could - but this plan might backfire resulting in lots of non-paying off season owners which wouldn't be good for any owner there. It shouldn't be a bother for the off-season owners to store their skis in the ski lodge. From what I remember when I was there - it looked pretty large (plenty of room for extra skis, poles, etc). The parking may be another story but even if you had to park by Peak 8 instead - isn't there a gondola that connects the two that could take you right over? If you're not lugging gear it's as not a big deal to transport a family that way.

 

[ondeadlin]

Is there any other general parking on Peak 7 or is the hotel it?

No, there is not.

 

[pacodemountainside]

Would You Like To Tour Peak-7?

Got my quarterly GTR news letter and as always looking for warm bodies over 25 who own a home to tour Peak-7.

Bribe is free two night stay in studio or 1 BR at GTR Monday-Thursday night.

Highly recommend Oktoberfest September 13-15, 2013.

If interested PM and I will send you phone number and booking code

 

[Lambo17]

We fell into the trap last weekend and signed a contract on a 1Br annual summer season for $30k with 15% APR financing. I felt pretty good about it while relaxing in the awesome hot tub watching my daughter rage around on the water slide. However, I didn't sleep well that night. On Monday I discovered TUG and the staggering amount of resales, we could have had a 2Br for half the price. So I am happy to report that the rescission letter went out this morning. There are a few aspects of the resort that appealed to me since I live a few hours away. I am curious to see if the GL7 owners have been able to take advantage of this.

As I understand if you purchase from the developer you are a Club Member, as a Club Member you get:

1. Day use privileges - I get that parking is probably an issue. Is the only limitation on parking, can you come and go freely with an owners card any time?

2. Conversion of week into club points - where you can take your week and split it up into multiple 3 night minimum stays. I really don't anticipate staying somewhere for a whole week. A 2Br winter (175,000pts) could be split into 5x 3 day weekends (2x summer 1 br, 2x fall 1br/suite, 1x winter 1br). I am guessing that this is $80-90k full freight from the developer.

3. Bonus Time - 14 days out you can book space available rooms. Has anyone had luck with this? As a resale purchaser are you out? Sales guy told me you can also get 20% off standard rental rates as well

Do any of these transfer if you buy a resale? I am assuming not. So one could conceivably buy a studio bi-annual fall/spring (i.e. the cheapest unit) and get the club benefits (except club points) and then load up on a resale for the ski week. In a sense it would be like buying a country club membership. My intuition tells me that it probably isn't worth it, maybe if you could combine club points. Let's say it was $10k, that will cover a lot of parking and quite a few nights at other places.

 

[Jack Latham]

Lambo17

I’ll do my best to give you a little feedback regarding your post. Just keep in mind – from where I’m coming from – and that is: I am NOT an owner, I have stayed at the GL7 and have taken the tour, I am interested in a possible purchase within the secondary market, I have talked with a number of owners, sellers and persons who have stayed there. I am quite familiar with GL7. Now you know “where I’m coming from” and can qualify my answers accordingly.

#1 Day use privileges – It is my understanding that day use is no problem – use of lobby, hot tubs, pools etc. PARKING IS A DIFFERENT STORY as you might expect – parking by availability only. I believe you need to make a reservation for parking and guess what – parking in summer is not too much of a problem – parking is winter busy season is almost nonexistent.

#2 Converting week to club points – This doesn’t seem to be any problem at this point and done with regularity.

#3 Bonus Time – Once again depends on availability. Winter- chances are slim - Sumer-much greater odds. This IS NOT transferable to others than buyers from developer as well as the 20% off rake rates (which is granted).

You are correct in assuming that NONE OF THE ABOVE transfers to 2nd ownership (and beyond). I have been told that a second owner may be able to purchase those benefits, but have no idea of the price. I’m sure it is no bargain – but you may wish to check it out.

I have talked with an individual that lives close by and bought a semiannual suite (1 br studio) during the Spring/Fall season (absolute cheapest unit you can get) and seems to be happy with these “additional bonus offers” that we have be discussing. That call is obviously yours and highly dependent on your location and situation.

By being “uneasy” with your purchase you did the right thing to resend (IMO). Give yourself some time to research and think it over. You now have the benefit of staying there and gaining knowledge from that stay.

Hope that answers some of your questions and is of some help,

Jack

 

[Lambo17]

Grand Lodge - Resale

Lambo17


#2 Converting week to club points – This doesn’t seem to be any problem at this point and done with regularity.


I have talked with an individual that lives close by and bought a semiannual suite (1 br studio) during the Spring/Fall season (absolute cheapest unit you can get) and seems to be happy with these “additional bonus offers” that we have be discussing. That call is obviously yours and highly dependent on your location and situation.


Jack

So if I bought a semi mud season from the developers to be a Club Member, then purchased a ski week resale, could I combine the points? Curious to see what the cost of a Club Membership would be. I am a little hesitant to call my sales guy right now as he just received the rescission.

 

[Jack Latham]

So if I bought a semi mud season from the developers to be a Club Member, then purchased a ski week resale, could I combine the points? Curious to see what the cost of a Club Membership would be.

Now you're waaaay beyond me (remember, I'm not an owner) but I like your creative thinking and if you do find out the answer please PM me.

" I am a little hesitant to call my sales guy right now as he just received the rescission."

I can understand your hesitancy - however, he may be calling you. If that is the case - then you have your opportunity to pose your question - he would love to turn the rejection into a sale!

 

[Sparkland]

Hey Jack:

My skiing days are over so I simply go for nice visit in Breck. Since I am a believer in buy where you want to go I would not buy there with benefit of hind sight.

Have never stayed at Peak-7 so cannot offer any insight.

II does have onsite office and I have gotten some nice trades. Have not spent a week there in some 7 years. Sales does claim they have preference, but kinda hard to believe considering size.

There is something that does not transfer with resale, but can't remember what it is.

From my perspective if one skies hard all day and then takes free shuttle to town for dinner, etc. it is not worth the price to basically crash. However, if one is going to hang out at resort the luxury may be worth while.

We have enjoyed our two previous stays at GP7 but actually like the pools at their sister resort GTL better.