Grand Lodge on Peak 7

[Jack Latham]

I am a “newbie” here at TUG and joined your group for I am contemplating the purchase of my first timeshare. I would more than welcome any feedback and especially hearing from any current/past owners of Grand Lodge on Peak 7 in Breckenridge, Colorado.

I am looking for a two bdrm lock off unit during the winter season. I have visited Breckenridge a number on times and upon my last visit (January) I did “take the tour”. I do think it to be an exceptionally fine property with a very unique location providing an exceptional proximity to some fine skiing. It seems to me that the developers have been very successful in their marketing efforts and yet I was nowhere close to putting down the $90,000 plus for such a unit – there obviously have been many who made such a commitment and the 5 phase complex is expected to be sold out in about 12 to 18 months – which is almost unbelievable to me.

I am interested in obtaining such a unit on the secondary market and yet don’t know what price might be realistic. I’m not sure, but I believe this property to be only about 3 to 4 years old. And perhaps for that reason I don’t see a lot of units being made available, at least of the web sites that I have visited.

A few direct questions that I have at this time and then, once again, any feedback from you experienced timeshare owners to this newbie would be most appreciated.

1. Is there anyone within the TUG group that has either sold or bought a unit of any size at this location? If so, I would certainly appreciate hearing from you and offering any feed back.

2. Am I correct in presuming that there is no source available to me that tracks timeshare resales and thereby has a record of sales history?

3. I honestly don’t know what a reasonable secondary market price would be. Would it be ½. 1/3 or ¼ of the original developer’s price?

4. What is the difference between the two timeshare exchanges – RCI and Interval International?

Thanks – I’ll look forward to the groups input.

 

[Saintsfanfl]

With desirable weeks at a relatively new resort such as the one you are after, there is not going to be much of a resale market. If you think about it, for there to be a resale week available, someone would have had to pay the $90k just a few years ago, have it paid off, and be willing to sell at a huge loss. This is an unlikely scenario considering it can be rented at a steady profit.

Finding a 2BR lock-off ski-week that is even listed for sale without it being close to retail is going to be the first and most difficult step. There hasn't been enough time for the resale market to develop into the usual steep discounts.

The best listings seem to be about 50% of your $90K. Your best option is to rent. The resale prices will fall and fall fast soon enough.

 

[PigsDad]

You might consider Grand Timber Lodge, the sister property of GL7. It is a little bit older, but is still a very nice property. I have seen 2BR ski week resales for under $10K (without really looking), so you should be able to get a good deal there.

I agree that GL7 is a fantastic property, but bargain ski week resales are probably not going to easy to find, if at all (at least for a few years).

Kurt

 

[pacodemountainside]

I own 3 BR lockoff at sister resort, GTR.

Milsnor Bros started out with Gold Point which is way on other side of town.

They started GTR circa 1999 and benefited from mistakes at GP. However, have been killed on MF. Started around $525 and today about $1,100.

Ski week reservations are handled on a lottery basis which is ????. But, do include free shuttle which is great.

When they lucked out and got land to do Peak 7 about 6 years ago they fine tuned by week and priced accordingly.

Every 6 months or so I get an invite to come up spend a couple nights free and get $100 AE which I am happy to do. Love Breck especially Oktoberfest and Ice Carvings.

Was just up last month and they were quoting like $110K with like $40K trade in on my GTR.

JoVan Realty in Breck specializes in their properties as well as other TSs and can help you with pricing. Since very pricey, owners who buy there can afford and definitely do not dump on e-bay. So expect to pay around 60% of Developer price.

They are just with II.

Was supposed to have been sold out long ago but like all TSs recession killed them.

Check out JoVan web site, then give them a call. I am sure they have the data you are looking for.

Disclaimer: I have no affiliation with JoVan. I have discussed selling my GTR through them

http://jovanrealty.com/

 

[Jack Latham]

Paco

I appreciate your reply to my post and appreciate the information from a member that has had experience with the “Grand Vacation” group. Experience is the best teacher and everyone learns from their own mistakes (or at least they should). From what little knowledge I have I can definitely see that the Milsnor Bros have “grown” with each of their 3 endeavors improving along the way. It is my understanding that the next project for them will be on Peak 8 with the restaurant tear down on another piece of prime real estate. I’m sure that one will be better than the previous three – for one thing, I’ll bet they will be putting in central Air Conditioning rather than retro fit the units as was done earlier this year (with a 10% increase in HOA).

With all that being said and the experience of owning at GTL, in your opinion, what could stand improvement with GLP7? Have you had the opportunity to talk with owners at GLP7? You mention that you have been on tour more than once – are you just waiting until the price drops on the resale market and then making your move? If so, may I ask, at what price level (2BR lock off) would it take to make you become interested? How long have you had your timeshare at GTL and did you purchase from the developer or on the secondary market? Over all, have you been happy with your purchase – would you do it again?

Lots of questions – I know. Thanks very much for all your feedback.

Jack

 

[rickandcindy23]

We have a love-hate relationship with Peak 7 and GTL.

The sales pitch is sickening. Really. I was rolling my eyes while the salesman talked. Rick was kicking me under the table to stop. But he would meet my eyes, and we would both burst out laughing.

Rude, I know. But as soon as the salesman asked us what WE thought the trading power would be for such a beautiful property, even a mud week, it got me started with the giggles. I am nearly sixty years old, and I rarely get giggly, but this time, I could not control myself.

I finally told the guy (named Mike or Mark?) that I had just bought some Myrtle Beach Sheratons on eBay the past week for little cash outlay, and I would see if I could trade in again, like I did this time. And I have traded into the resort again and again and again. I especially like trading into the studios for 500 Shell points within 2 months of check-in date (total of $100 + $154 exchange fee). :rofl:

 

[Jack Latham]

We have a love-hate relationship with Peak 7 and GTL.

The sales pitch is sickening. Really. I was rolling my eyes while the salesman talked. Rick was kicking me under the table to stop. But he would meet my eyes, and we would both burst out laughing.

Rude, I know. But as soon as the salesman asked us what WE thought the trading power would be for such a beautiful property, even a mud week, it got me started with the giggles. I am nearly sixty years old, and I rarely get giggly, but this time, I could not control myself.

I finally told the guy (named Mike or Mark?) that I had just bought some Myrtle Beach Sheratons on eBay the past week for little cash outlay, and I would see if I could trade in again, like I did this time. And I have traded into the resort again and again and again. I especially like trading into the studios for 500 Shell points within 2 months of check-in date (total of $100 + $154 exchange fee). :rofl:

Rickandcindy,

This has been terrific - this newbie has learned a lot in just one day. I know nothing about "trading" and what are "shell points". Are you saying that you have traded in to this resort 3 times? What season are you able to trade into. Please educate me more.

Jack

 

[jdunn1]

I'd buy into Hyatt way before I bought at GL7. If you buy at GL7 you have no preference outside of your home resort. If you buy Hyatt, which has fantastic and multiple ski resorts, you can easily do internal trades between the varios Hyatt resorts. If you still want to trade into GL7, then Hyatt points will allow for that almost as easily via Interval. I follow GL7 on Interval and you can trade into that resort for just about any week you want in the winter, even Presidents Day week, but only into a studio. I do see one bedrooms for exchange less often than studios and never for holiday weeks but someone may be getting them via an ongoing. I would not expect to EVER get a 2 bedroom or larger via trade in Interval. Studio units you can bank on and one bedrooms you can bank on if it is not a holiday week but I have never seen a 2 bedroom ski week, though (at least not for January or February).

If you really want to buy a ski resort then I think buying into Hyatt (diamond or platinum week) is the best way to go by far!!!

Nice as GL7 is, I would never buy into this resort. I like to exchange too much and I like exploring new resorts and neither of these things will be easy with a GL7. If you were ever to exchange your GL7 week, you may be shocked to discover that it will not trade for the best weeks in Interval. This is true NOT because GL7 is a poor resort, but because of the various internal trade preference periods and depositing rules the hotel based timeshares in Interval have.

Good luck and definately look into Hyatt. Hyatt is a far better option if you want a ski week. Hyatt won't be cheap but will be much cheaper than GL7, you will have many internal trade options, resale value will hold steady, and you will have as good of a trader as you can get (outside of Marriott and Starwood trade preference periods) in Interval.

I want to add (and this is not for timeshare newbies) but SFX and GL7 have a special relationship. I beleive GL7 gives developer inventory to SFX and if you want the larger size units, going through SFX may be the best option. With that said, SFX has failed me on many occasions and I think SFX takes care of Hilton owners before anyone else, but lots of people on TUG really like SFX and have had good success with them. As negative as my experiences have been with SFX, I appreciate the success stories of others here on TUG with SFX and that is why I am letting you know about that option.

 

[Jack Latham]

I'd buy into Hyatt way before I bought at GL7. If you buy at GL7 you have no preference outside of your home resort. If you buy Hyatt, which has fantastic and multiple ski resorts, you can easily do internal trades between the varios Hyatt resorts. If you still want to trade into GL7, then Hyatt points will allow for that almost as easily via Interval. I follow GL7 on Interval and you can trade into that resort for just about any week you want in the winter, even Presidents Day week, but only into a studio. I do see one bedrooms for exchange less often than studios and never for holiday weeks but someone may be getting them via an ongoing. I would not expect to EVER get a 2 bedroom or larger via trade in Interval. Studio units you can bank on and one bedrooms you can bank on if it is not a holiday week but I have never seen a 2 bedroom ski week, though (at least not for January or February).

If you really want to buy a ski resort then I think buying into Hyatt (diamond or platinum week) is the best way to go by far!!!

Nice as GL7 is, I would never buy into this resort. I like to exchange too much and I like exploring new resorts and neither of these things will be easy with a GL7. If you were ever to exchange your GL7 week, you may be shocked to discover that it will not trade for the best weeks in Interval. This is true NOT because GL7 is a poor resort, but because of the various internal trade preference periods and depositing rules the hotel based timeshares in Interval have.

Good luck and definately look into Hyatt. Hyatt is a far better option if you want a ski week. Hyatt won't be cheap but will be much cheaper than GL7, you will have many internal trade options, resale value will hold steady, and you will have as good of a trader as you can get (outside of Marriott and Starwood trade preference periods) in Interval.

I want to add (and this is not for timeshare newbies) but SFX and GL7 have a special relationship. I beleive GL7 gives developer inventory to SFX and if you want the larger size units, going through SFX may be the best option. With that said, SFX has failed me on many occasions and I think SFX takes care of Hilton owners before anyone else, but lots of people on TUG really like SFX and have had good success with them. As negative as my experiences have been with SFX, I appreciate the success stories of others here on TUG with SFX and that is why I am letting you know about that option.

jdunn1 - thanks for your reply.
I am glad to have your viewpoint of the trading possibilities. I wasn't aware of a relationship with SFX and GL7 - thanks for the knowledge. It seems that GL7 may have a bit of "special" or preferred relationship with Interval Int. GL7 seems to have a II department set up within their offices that work with II directly. I am told that GL7 is one of the very top rated with II as well (don't know if it's true). Is there much difference between II and SFX ???

 

[Saintsfanfl]

jdunn1 - thanks for your reply.
I am glad to have your viewpoint of the trading possibilities. I wasn't aware of a relationship with SFX and GL7 - thanks for the knowledge. It seems that GL7 may have a bit of "special" or preferred relationship with Interval Int. GL7 seems to have a II department set up within their offices that work with II directly. I am told that GL7 is one of the very top rated with II as well (don't know if it's true). Is there much difference between II and SFX ???

This resort is very easy to trade into, but as mentioned that is largely due to the smaller units available. There are 1BR ski weeks just sitting there that I could have using a near free timeshare. I am certain a 2BR ski week could be had with a request using a 2BR+ with a wide date range. The resort is highly rated in II, but size is King, and there is no preference into some of the nice II resorts. In other words if you lock off you effectively eliminate the trade power. Likewise using a cheaper but larger timeshare will easily get Studios and 1BR's. I think II went overboard on their size tweaking.

 

[pacodemountainside]

Hey Jack:

My skiing days are over so I simply go for nice visit in Breck. Since I am a believer in buy where you want to go I would not buy there with benefit of hind sight.

Have never stayed at Peak-7 so cannot offer any insight.

II does have onsite office and I have gotten some nice trades. Have not spent a week there in some 7 years. Sales does claim they have preference, but kinda hard to believe considering size.

There is something that does not transfer with resale, but can't remember what it is.

From my perspective if one skies hard all day and then takes free shuttle to town for dinner, etc. it is not worth the price to basically crash. However, if one is going to hang out at resort the luxury may be worth while.

 

[jdunn1]

I'd research and ask other tuggers about GL7 and II. There is no way around the 21 day preference period all other Marriott owners get over any GL7 (or any non-marriott owner). Same story for Starwood deposits but I'm not sure how long the Starwood preference period is. What this means is that all the prime Marriott and Starwood/Westin deposits in II get snached up instantly by other Marriott or Starwood owners. If you ever want to trade a GL7 week (even a winter holiday week) you will be in line behind all the other Marriott or Starwood owners.

It doesn't sound right, because you would think a GL7 New Years or Presidents Day week would get you anything in II, even a like week at a Marriott or Hyatt or Starwood ski resort but the opposit is true. All Marriott deposits will have preference over a GL7 deposit for any Marriott week. So, if a Marriott ski week or Marriott beach week in the Carolinas or a Marriott Hawaii week or any other Marriott week gets deposited, thos weeks get taken by other "like" Marriott owners, first. The prime Marriott and Starwood weeks NEVER make it past the preference period for other exchangers. II will tell you your GL7 week has the trade power for whatever week you would want in Interval and that is very much true. However, the reality is that your trade power cannot overcome the preference period Marriott and Starwood owners get for weeks within their own system.

I would hate for you to get a GL7 week and then find out the hard way, you can never exchange it via Interval for a Marriott MountainSide ski week (1 or two bedroom) or a summer Marriott Carolina week or whatever top notch Marriott or Starwood week you might have in mind.

There is a big difference between SFX and II. SFX is really small compared to II but for an independent resort like SFX, you might do really well with SFX. SFX doesn't get developer deposits from Marriott or Starwood (least that is my understanding) but SFX will get developer deposits from GL7, Manhattan Club, and a few other independant timeshare resorts. SFX says they only accept inventory from high end resorts and only 1 bedrooms or larger and only desirable weeks but the truth is, SFX has very little inventory in the USA. SFX will definately give you more personal service over II. Trade fees for both are a wash. SFX used to be cheaper but now they are the same if not more than II. One big advantage with II over SFX is that II allows you to request a trade first, without actually giving up your deposit. This may only be true for Marriott owners, though (Starwood owners?). With SFX, you actually have to give them your week before they will start a serach request for you. With II, you can tell them what trade you want and give them xx amount of days and if it doesn't happen, you get your week back and can occupy it yourself.

I ecourage you to look more into the "special" or preferred relationship with Interval Int. GL7 seems to have because that sounds like something GL7 says at presentations. Most, if not all resorts have a department that deals with Interval so I do not think GL7 has anything more special than any other resort.

Just, I can't caution you enough about the internal trade preference Marriott and Starwood owners will get over even the best GL7 week. Doesn't sound right but my summer Marriott Willow Ridge (which is in Branson) will get get any Marriott deposit before even the best GL7 week can.

SFX doesn't have those trade preferences (though I do believe they give special attention to Hilton owners), but SFX doesn't get those super prime Marriott or Starwood weeks, either. Most people who own the best Marriott and Starwood weeks use them or rent them for cash whenever they can. In the rare instances where a prime week gets deposited, it almost always goes to II because you have to be an especially informed owner to know about SFX and to trust SFX with your prized deposit. Also, there is no incentive for a Marriott or Starwood owner to use SFX because SFX doesn't give them any kind of advantage for trades back into their resort brand like Interval does.

Hope this helps. Honestly, I would buy a ski week at a Hyatt or Marriott before ever purchasing at GL7. Now, if you want to only stay at GL7, then I can understand the comfort in owning there but I know for a fact you can trade into that resort failry easily. You can get a studio ski week any day of the week but a one bedroom or larger will be much harder via II. Hyatt has the nicest ski resort in my oppinion and an internal trade system that can't be beat for resale week owners. Marriott ski resorts are second best in my oppinion but no internal trade system for resale owners. Some Starwood ski resorts are easy to trade into for a ski week while others (especially the Steamboat property) are impossible.

jdunn1 - thanks for your reply.
I am glad to have your viewpoint of the trading possibilities. I wasn't aware of a relationship with SFX and GL7 - thanks for the knowledge. It seems that GL7 may have a bit of "special" or preferred relationship with Interval Int. GL7 seems to have a II department set up within their offices that work with II directly. I am told that GL7 is one of the very top rated with II as well (don't know if it's true). Is there much difference between II and SFX ???

 

[CO skier]

The best listings seem to be about 50% of your $90K. Your best option is to rent. The resale prices will fall and fall fast soon enough.

+1 -- and rent from a GL7 owner, not the developer.

Consider this:

Whatever you pay for GL7 will be worth less than half that amount in ten years. ($2,250 depreciation per year on a $45,000 purchase today).

Maintenance fees are probably more than $1,000.

Using the $45,000 purchase price to instead buy a high quality 10-year corporate bond that you hold until maturity will generate about $1,200 in annual income -- minus taxes, call it $800.

$800 bond income + 1,000 MF (savings) + $2,250 depreciation = $4,050 that will go a long way towards a yearly rental.

Here is a Christmas Week in a 2 BR at GL7 for $4550: http://www.vrbo.com/487070, so it should be easy enough to find other Winter Weeks for less.


Plus,

1) You would not have an obligation to use or trade the TS each year.

2) You would not have the hassle of disposing of the timeshare when you are done with it.

3) Now that the new phase at GL7 is coming online, rental opportunities will be expanding, which will hold the rental price steady for the next few years, at least.

Read the reviews on TripAdvisor for GL7. It seems that being an owner at GL7 is nowhere near as much fun as being an owner-wannabee.

 

[rickandcindy23]

Is it important for the OP to be on the ski slope? Will that always be special, or is it one of those things that won't be special anymore in 20 years?

The Hyatt suggestion was a great one. That is what I would do. I would love to own Hyatt points. It's a pricey thing to buy right now, but much less than the Peak 7 property, and then you still own Hyatt. That is a great idea.

It's funny to think of what we paid back 30 years ago, when we bought our mud season week at Val Chatelle in Frisco, CO. Sounds cheap now, but we paid $3,800 for a week we gave away several years ago.

We fell in love with Val Chatelle. They are individual townhouses with a garage (heated), a private hot tub on each deck, a full-sized washer/ dryer, and three bedrooms (loft with twin beds is accessible via a circular, wrought-iron staircase). We now own two ski weeks there, and three summer weeks, too, which we paid $1,000 or less for each. The summer weeks were essentially free.

When we bought our mud season week in 1982, the resort was selling the ski season weeks for $40K. That was almost what a decent house cost back then. We never thought we could afford ski weeks in Frisco--not ever. Today they are cheap enough, but rare to find, since there are only six Val Chatelle timeshare units. Really special place. Large, private, pretty, nice fireplace, and a cabin-like feel to it. We love it. But it's near a lot of different ski areas, not on a slope. The maintenance fees are $500 for summer, $540 for ski weeks, $480 for blue weeks. Blue weeks still get 18 TPU's in RCI (which is decent).

The units not timeshare in that same complex are selling for about $500K. Those units actually don't have garages. Very high priced real estate in Frisco. The owners at Val Chatelle could vote to sell the resort and come out just fine. I don't know how you would convince the folks who own the ski weeks to sell. We could be convinced, however. :rofl:

 

[Saintsfanfl]

Excellent perspective!

+1 -- and rent from a GL7 owner, not the developer.

Consider this:

Whatever you pay for GL7 will be worth less than half that amount in ten years. ($2,250 depreciation per year on a $45,000 purchase today).

Maintenance fees are probably more than $1,000.

Using the $45,000 purchase price to buy a high quality corporate bond that you hold until maturity will generate about $1,200 in annual income -- minus taxes, call it $800.

$800 bond income + 1,000 MF (savings) + $2,250 depreciation = $4,050 that will go a long way towards a yearly rental.

Plus,

1) You would not have an obligation to use or trade the TS each year.

2) You would not have the hassle of disposing of the timeshare when you are done with it.

3) Now that the new phase at GL7 is coming online, rental opportunities will be expanding, which will hold the rental price steady for the next few years, at least.

Read the reviews on TripAdvisor for GL7. It seems that being an owner at GL7 is nowhere near as much fun as being an owner-wannabee.

 

[smtundra]

We have been very happy with Grand Timber Lodge. The shuttle is awesome, we always ski in. My kids know the mountain and can get back by themselves. We own 2 winter weeks. We like how it is close to town, and it is quiet in the evenings. Grand Lodge Peak 7 is newer and has the direct ski in/out, however, in the evenings you've got the snow cats going

 

[ondeadlin]

If you really want to buy a ski resort then I think buying into Hyatt (diamond or platinum week) is the best way to go by far!!!

Allow me to second this advice.

If you want to ski Colorado there is no better week to own than a Hyatt Diamond week. You can either use it at Hyatt's multiple properties or trade into Grand Timber Lodge or the Grand Lodge at Peak 7 (which I have done multiple times).

You can pick up a Hyatt Diamond week on eBay for around $9-10K, all in.

 

[CO skier]

...
Check out JoVan web site, then give them a call. I am sure they have the data you are looking for.

...

http://jovanrealty.com/

Do any of these units sell for anything close to the pie-in-the-sky asking prices?

 

[Saintsfanfl]

Do any of these units sell for anything close to the pie-in-the-sky asking prices?

It is easy for us as online bargain hunters to scoff at the high prices, but brick and mortar resale operations do sell at very high prices all the time. They are there, on the ground, in your face, just like the resort, but for much lower prices. I work in Orlando and the brick and mortar resale operations are everywhere here. You can meet them face to face and do business for a whole lot less than the resort. The online PCC's on the other hand hide under a rock and will avoid a face to face meeting like the plague.

JoVan probably doesn't even have to do any hard selling. All they have to do is catch people that have gone on a presentation and it sells itself.

 

[twinmommy19]

I have a Hyatt credit card and love their reward points system. As someone who lives on the east coast, I have looked into purchasing Hyatt but decided against it for the following reasons.

1) The Colorado Hyatt deeds require you to buy floater offseason points too (I'm pretty sure all the winter deeds are set up that way though I could be wrong). Those floater points do not get good value for the maintenance fee and you are stuck with them.

2) There is no guarantee that Hyatt doesn't one day get out of the TS business altogether (they seem less and less interested in building it out and recently sold off units in Nevada). For this reason, I personally am hesitant to buy in a location I would rarely, if ever, visit. If I lived on the west coast it might make sense as I'm sure the Arizona and Cali resorts are nice... Key West just doesn't interest us much as its a pain to get there - 3 hr drive from Miami or a very expensive connecting flight for us.

Bottom line IMO opinion is that Hyatt's best value comes in their credit card for skiers so long as the Park City location remains a category 4. Last year we went there for 5 days with friends. We used the annual free nights (two of them if husband and wife get separate cards) and points - then Hyatt charged us about $75 -$100 per night to upgrade one of our studios to a 1BR. In effect we had a magnificent 2BR suite that usually goes for 1500 plus tax a night... My understanding is that this property rarely comes up for internal Hyatt exchange like the Beaver Creek Residence club...

 

[twinmommy19]

In case it's unclear - the 1BRs connect to the studios to form a 2BR at the Hyatt Park City property. The reason the upgrade is so cheap is because Hyatt charges a fortune for the base rate but the differential between rates wasn't that high...

 

[pacodemountainside]

Do any of these units sell for anything close to the pie-in-the-sky asking prices?

In the "Ski The Summit" area, Breck, Frisco, Keystone, etc. the Federal Government owns around 85% of the land.


So, it takes some wheeling, dealing, horse trading etc. to get land to build on. So, unlike Branson, Orlando, Williamsburg, one can not just go out and buy some land next to ski slope and throw up a TS.

As far as I know Peak-7 is the only TS with lots of inventory for sale although other Developers have odds and ends.

Also, in Colorado it requires same real estate license to sell a TS as a million dollar mansion. So, it could be there is less hard selling to people who cannot afford.

AS far as a definite answer to your question I do not know but these prices have been about the same for several years and you do not see on e-bay auctions very often.

 

[Saintsfanfl]

Also, in Colorado it requires same real estate license to sell a TS as a million dollar mansion. So, it could be there is less hard selling to people who cannot afford.

I think you will find that this is the case in most states. This is why the brick and mortar operations are "legitimate" and many ebay PCC's hide under a rock as unlicensed illegal operations.

 

[Jack Latham]

Boy, this discussion has been of great value and a real learning experience – all within a very short time.

THANKS TO EVERYONE WHO HAS PARTICIPATED – I have learned a lot (and one of the things that I have learned – there is sure a lot more to be learned!)

You all are obviously “experienced shoppers” within the timeshare industry. I presume that all of your vast knowledge has evolved over time and it would be most interesting to know what your “first involvement” with timeshares might have been.

You are all swaying me to look at other options. Trouble is – I have spent some time and have viewed the location that I am considering. I have at least a little knowledge about that product. On the other hand, I know nothing – absolutely NOTHING – about:

• Points
• Trading properties
• The differences between the firms that provide the “trading” service – RCI, II, SFX and the others that I don’t even know to ask about.

If someone wants to take more time or point me into the right direction (web link) I’m ready to accept the knowledge.

It seems as if many of you have bought into properties that you have never visited or ever planned to use but have been able to “pick up” properties or points at a very low cost (sometimes NO cost) and have then been able to use this to trade for locations that you have enjoyed a great deal. I don’t know if that is a fair statement or not – let me know if it isn’t. I will admit that I have difficulty “in getting my arms around” the concept of purchasing a product that I have never seen and have very little knowledge of – and yet with everyone’s input I’m trying to at least make that a consideration.
Let me ask:

• Are there two groups (and I would presume many more than 2) of timeshare owners? Group #1- Those that purchase in the area in which they desire to vacation in. Use for family gatherings and then pass along to their children or simply enjoy using themselves? Group#2-Those that have little or no intent to use the property they have purchased and from the “get go” plan on always trading it for another location?

• Are there ANY timeshares (while I know the number must be few) that actually maintain at least a stable valuation (certainly not the original developer price) due to their unique desired location, amenities, ambiance etc. Now I can well understand that timeshares in say, Orlando, Fl. (forgive me, owners of Orlando timeshares) because of their sheer numbers, would devaluate – the newest and latest timeshare will always be better. Conversely, a timeshare that were built on a mountain side that doesn’t allow for any further development (due to US Forest service regulations) would be more likely to sustain at least some value – at least in my way of thinking. Is “my thinking” way off? Or perhaps a timeshare on a secluded beach may be another truly unique property.

Please answer me this - Have there been ANY timeshares that have proven this “desirability” and have retained at least some consistent value over a 15, 20, 25 or 30 year period??? And now, for the unthinkable - has there ever been known to mankind – a timeshare that actually increased in value (on the secondary market) obviously, due to demand? Have the ever increasing costs of home owner dues even driven away the property owners of what may have been a very desirable area?

I’ll look forward to and appreciate more of the group’s discussion (and possible debate) on the topics I have raised.

Jack

 

[bdh]

You are all swaying me to look at other options. Trouble is – I have spent some time and have viewed the location that I am considering. I have at least a little knowledge about that product. On the other hand, I know nothing – absolutely NOTHING – about:

• Points
• Trading properties
• The differences between the firms that provide the “trading” service – RCI, II, SFX and the others that I don’t even know to ask about.

If someone wants to take more time or point me into the right direction (web link) I’m ready to accept the knowledge.

It seems as if many of you have bought into properties that you have never visited or ever planned to use but have been able to “pick up” properties or points at a very low cost (sometimes NO cost) and have then been able to use this to trade for locations that you have enjoyed a great deal. I don’t know if that is a fair statement or not – let me know if it isn’t. I will admit that I have difficulty “in getting my arms around” the concept of purchasing a product that I have never seen and have very little knowledge of – and yet with everyone’s input I’m trying to at least make that a consideration.
Let me ask:

• Are there two groups (and I would presume many more than 2) of timeshare owners? Group #1- Those that purchase in the area in which they desire to vacation in. Use for family gatherings and then pass along to their children or simply enjoy using themselves? Group#2-Those that have little or no intent to use the property they have purchased and from the “get go” plan on always trading it for another location?

• Are there ANY timeshares (while I know the number must be few) that actually maintain at least a stable valuation (certainly not the original developer price) due to their unique desired location, amenities, ambiance etc. Now I can well understand that timeshares in say, Orlando, Fl. (forgive me, owners of Orlando timeshares) because of their sheer numbers, would devaluate – the newest and latest timeshare will always be better. Conversely, a timeshare that were built on a mountain side that doesn’t allow for any further development (due to US Forest service regulations) would be more likely to sustain at least some value – at least in my way of thinking. Is “my thinking” way off? Or perhaps a timeshare on a secluded beach may be another truly unique property.

Please answer me this - Have there been ANY timeshares that have proven this “desirability” and have retained at least some consistent value over a 15, 20, 25 or 30 year period??? And now, for the unthinkable - has there ever been known to mankind – a timeshare that actually increased in value (on the secondary market) obviously, due to demand? Have the ever increasing costs of home owner dues even driven away the property owners of what may have been a very desirable area?

I’ll look forward to and appreciate more of the group’s discussion (and possible debate) on the topics I have raised.

Jack

The questions you've asked cover ALOT of ground and can't be answered in a single post or thread - but the various folks here on TUG have ALOT of knowledge. That knowledge was obtained in a variety of ways, but a good portion was picked by being an owner and just living/doing it. You're fortunate that Al Gore created the internet and TUG has provided a platform for TS users to share info/experience - so you've come the right place to learn/read.

The key thing is that there is no single best TS to own - what works great for one person's situation, could be terrible for another person. Your group #1 and #2 are a perfect example of that - both scenarios work good for the respective individuals in each group. Add group #3 - those that don't own a TS and just rent a TS unit where and when they want to travel using the universal point system of dollars. There are more groups and options than that, but there is only one guy that can determine what is best for you - and that guy is you.

The "trading firms" of RCI, II, SFX, DAE, etc are "exchange companies" - each resort has an affiliation with a single exchange company (RCI or II) that would be your default exchange company. If the property you own at is affiliated with RCI, you can't trade into an II property and vice versa. Note that there are a small number of resort properties that have dual affiliation and can exchange with both RCI and II - but that's a topic for another thread. SFX, DAE and all the others are deemed "independent" exchange companies as they don't have an exchange agreement directly with the resort properties - again, a topic for another thread.

With literally thousands of TS properties, the price on the resale market for them ranges from $25,000 +/- to ones that people will pay you to take it off their hands. The vast majority of the thousands can be bought for zero to $500. There are some that sell in the $1000 to $5000 range and a small group that are at the $5000 to $25000 level. The TS's that sell at/above 5K obviously have something desirable - a prime ski week or prime beach week. Which TS you pursue/buy will be a function of what "value" you place on the features/benefits and property location that are important to you.

Probably the single best website to read/research the various TS systems is right here on TUG - so visit the various forums for Marriott, Starwood, Hilton, Wyndham, Disney and All Other TS and start reading/inquiring.