Getting into The Quin Penthouses

[tah]

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Thanks for coming to my TED talk.

Sean

(Pics from 1804 when I stayed there in September 2021)

https://imgur.com/a/B9VsnJJ

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That is an awesome room and terrace. I must admit that my first thought was...does the room have coasters?

 

[Eric B]

Thank you!

 

[Skyyblueplaya]

Well, since you are replying to posts on the TugBBS/HGVC forum, I assume that you are aware of how the HGVC point system works. Just because I own this does not mean I have any intention of using all of my points in that one unit. In fact, my total points are about 118,000 which would get me close to 14 weeks in a studio plus in New York if I wanted. I built my ownership that way to have a pied-à-terre in the city. As I stated multiple times, this works for me and does not meet everyone else’s goals.

The main purpose of my initial post was to show how you can trade in resale equity and make the exorbitant developer costs more palatable.

Sean

Im the anomoly here, I do not own in any HGVC sense. I work for the company but I work in a TS that DOES NOT do presentations, we dont sell aggressively, I know nothing, would never experience what it is like to be in a TS presentation or IDK if i'll ever be an owner B/C my discounts as an employee are better but I digress...

I like to know the whole picture of this situation (i.e. being a timeshare owner) even though it does not affect me and my job. But i will meet people like you guys, and my property is not opened (Hurricane Ian damage, yes 2 years later) so im learning so that I too will understand what TS owners go through.

I hope im welcomed, im not the enemy i swear LOL I dont sell timeshares I help people who already own them <3

 

[Skyyblueplaya]

I think you may be new here and you may think this is a Reddit thread or something. Generally people on here are very cordial and knowledgeable about HGVC timeshare system. If you choose to be neither, then I would probably refrain from posting.

Im sorry i dont mean to be rude or even uncordial.
Im a little overly excited and I think I will leave this thread, im sorry to have caused confusion.

 

[boraxo]

I included all that info in the post. The deed has 2 units — 1BR PH (33,600 points) and Studio PH (23,040 points), fixed week (41) and fixed units (1804, 1803). I can put any of those days into the pool and just use bHC points like any other ownership.

Total points are 56,640 and MF is $8000, $0.14 per point. I actually ended up saving over $2000 in MF compared to the deeds I traded in. The deal worked for me and checked my boxes. Again, not for everyone and YMMV.

Sean

Appreciate that but still a bit hard to follow what you presently own. From above I gather your total cash cost (adding all purchases from the beginning) was $112.5k. The time value of that money at 8% is $9k per year. Your annual maintenance fees on the points are now $7.9k per year. So essentially your total cost is almost $17k per year.

But what exactly to you own? You mention HCNY, Quinn and Centrum. Do you own 2BR at all these properties? One week at each? Can you trade from October to December or does that cost more points?

Sorry for all the basic questions but I would love to understand the deal.

 

[Smclaugh99]

Appreciate that but still a bit hard to follow what you presently own. From above I gather your total cash cost (adding all purchases from the beginning) was $112.5k. The time value of that money at 8% is $9k per year. Your annual maintenance fees on the points are now $7.9k per year. So essentially your total cost is almost $17k per year.

But what exactly to you own? You mention HCNY, Quinn and Centrum. Do you own 2BR at all these properties? One week at each? Can you trade from October to December or does that cost more points?

Sorry for all the basic questions but I would love to understand the deal.

 

[Smclaugh99]

Full breakdown of my ownerships and tradebacks that began in 2010 would be too long a tale. I currently have 129,000 points if I count the 118,000 New York points plus HGVC Seaworld 11,200. I would estimate the cumulative total I have paid by retail and resale would be just south of $2.50 per point. Again, I have purposely concentrated my ownership to be in New York because for what I want to do, I need owner booking windows. As I stated previously, if I just booked studios each year in New York with my points, I could have 15+ weeks. Would I recommend this to anyone else or do I think it is a good use of my money? Not really, but it works for me.

Sean

 

[Reddart]

Though the Downtown Conrad is farther, it’s nice and I don’t mind the subway and walk to the Conrad.

And maybe everyone else knows this, but I just found out you can make this trip covered almost all the way. From the Conrad, go out the back exit from the lobby and walk across the street to the Brookfield mall. Walk south then east, and you can take escalators down to the Occulus WTC mall, where you can catch a plethora of subways and even the NJ Path trains. Catch the E, transfer to the F at Washington Sq, and emerge on the corner at the W57th stop.

 

[boraxo]

Full breakdown of my ownerships and tradebacks that began in 2010 would be too long a tale. I currently have 129,000 points if I count the 118,000 New York points plus HGVC Seaworld 11,200. I would estimate the cumulative total I have paid by retail and resale would be just south of $2.50 per point. Again, I have purposely concentrated my ownership to be in New York because for what I want to do, I need owner booking windows. As I stated previously, if I just booked studios each year in New York with my points, I could have 15+ weeks. Would I recommend this to anyone else or do I think it is a good use of my money? Not really, but it works for me.

Sean

So you just own points not penthouse weeks? That was not the impression I got from your original post. I guess we can all just go buy points if we want to stay there.

 

[brp]

So you just own points not penthouse weeks? That was not the impression I got from your original post. I guess we can all just go buy points if we want to stay there.

For HGVC, points and weeks are interchangeable with the exception of Home week, where the concept of a week matters. Even then, except for a few special cases, it's not a specific week. Just the right number of points to book 1 week in the season and unit type you own. Otherwise, just points. However, for bHC properties (like New York), owning at a specific location can have booking window and lounge access implications. But it's just points.

The unit type and season one buys just determines how many points one gets. And the amount of MFs.

Cheers.

 

[Eric B]

So you just own points not penthouse weeks? That was not the impression I got from your original post. I guess we can all just go buy points if we want to stay there.

I don’t believe that’s what was posted - The Quin is only sold as fixed week fixed units for the penthouses. It is not sold as just points, though that might be how it gets used. I own two weeks in a studio penthouses there but use them as 46,080 bHC points eligible to book at The Quin during Home Resort Priority.

You are, of course, right that anyone can just go buy points to stay there. The penthouses do seem to book up well in advance of the Club season there, though. Ideally, the bHC points used in Home Resort bookings are supposed to be from that resort, though it’s not set up that way in the system. IMHO, a studio penthouse week there is a good ownership because of the low mf/point plus the home resort.

 

[brp]

I don’t believe that’s what was posted - The Quin is only sold as fixed week fixed units for the penthouses. It is not sold as just points, though that might be how it gets used.

Thanks for the clarification/correction to what I posted above. I was citing the general case, and not aware that Quin penthouses were sold differently.

Cheers.

 

[Eric B]

For HGVC, points and weeks are interchangeable with the exception of Home week, where the concept of a week matters. Even then, except for a few special cases, it's not a specific week. Just the right number of points to book 1 week in the season and unit type you own. Otherwise, just points. However, for bHC properties (like New York), owning at a specific location can have booking window and lounge access implications. But it's just points.

The unit type and season one buys just determines how many points one gets. And the amount of MFs.

Cheers.

Not at The Quin for the penthouse units. I believe there are a few others sold as FW/FU ownerships but don’t have a list.

 

[Eric B]

I included all that info in the post. The deed has 2 units — 1BR PH (33,600 points) and Studio PH (23,040 points), fixed week (41) and fixed units (1804, 1803). I can put any of those days into the pool and just use bHC points like any other ownership.

Total points are 56,640 and MF is $8000, $0.14 per point. I actually ended up saving over $2000 in MF compared to the deeds I traded in. The deal worked for me and checked my boxes. Again, not for everyone and YMMV.

Sean

Well, we wound up trading in one of our Quin studio penthouse weeks and three District 1 BRs to upgrade to a similar 2 BR at the Quin but with 1901, the two story 1 BR PH with two terraces, and the other 18th floor studio penthouse, 1802. They removed all of the availability in unsold weeks in 1901/1802 this year when they shifted to selling those as 2 BRs; sales staff said they would only offer one of those weeks to someone already owning 54K in HGVC points, though I'm not sure I really believe that. Our average MF stays about the same since a 1 BR PH at The Quin has about the same price per bHC point as a 1 BR at The District. As noted by @Smclaugh99 upgrading to those is not for the faint of heart but we wound up with a two story penthouse suite at The Quin for Memorial Day every year - there will no doubt be some occasions that week with nice enough weather to really enjoy having those terraces.

 

[Smclaugh99]

Well, we wound up trading in one of our Quin studio penthouse weeks and three District 1 BRs to upgrade to a similar 2 BR at the Quin but with 1901, the two story 1 BR PH with two terraces, and the other 18th floor studio penthouse, 1802. They removed all of the availability in unsold weeks in 1901/1802 this year when they shifted to selling those as 2 BRs; sales staff said they would only offer one of those weeks to someone already owning 54K in HGVC points, though I'm not sure I really believe that. Our average MF stays about the same since a 1 BR PH at The Quin has about the same price per bHC point as a 1 BR at The District. As noted by @Smclaugh99 upgrading to those is not for the faint of heart but we wound up with a two story penthouse suite at The Quin for Memorial Day every year - there will no doubt be some occasions that week with nice enough weather to really enjoy having those terraces.

That is so awesome to hear. Congratulations! Are you able to break down what they offered for the trade-ins and what new money you had to bring to the table? As someone in the thread said, this comes down to mastering the arbitrage! Who was your sales person?

Sean

 

[Eric B]

Mine was a bit more complicated because I traded in ones I had upgraded to - unfortunately I had run out of resales and hadn't expected them to make this offer. I did wind up with a ton of bonus points but brought in a bit more new money than you.

One other nice thing about that week is in addition to Memorial Day most years it also includes a Manhattanhenge! I've been meaning to get up there for one of those.

 

[DazedandConfused]

Appreciate that but still a bit hard to follow what you presently own. From above I gather your total cash cost (adding all purchases from the beginning) was $112.5k. The time value of that money at 8% is $9k per year. Your annual maintenance fees on the points are now $7.9k per year. So essentially your total cost is almost $17k per year.

But what exactly to you own? You mention HCNY, Quinn and Centrum. Do you own 2BR at all these properties? One week at each? Can you trade from October to December or does that cost more points?

Sorry for all the basic questions but I would love to understand the deal.

No offense, but using 8% time value of money is crazy high, especially as you don't remove the time value of taxes owed on that, so the net return would be much less, and good luck getting a 8% every year, if you can, then there is no need for timeshares, just stay at the Four Seasons or Ritz.

When it comes to timeshares, you are probably best to leave off any calculation of time value of money. Look, I get the math and the concept, but do you time value money for everything including coffee, dinners, Broadway shows, airline tickets, probably not. Sure in this example, a few TUGers are spending $100k on a NYC timeshare and you really need to look at that as a true investment, but as mentioned earlier, these properties probably are worth $5 to $10 million dollars in adjoining buildings, so these purchases are actually a great deal viewed thru those optics.

 

[boraxo]

No offense, but using 8% time value of money is crazy high, especially as you don't remove the time value of taxes owed on that, so the net return would be much less, and good luck getting a 8% every year, if you can, then there is no need for timeshares, just stay at the Four Seasons or Ritz.

When it comes to timeshares, you are probably best to leave off any calculation of time value of money. Look, I get the math and the concept, but do you time value money for everything including coffee, dinners, Broadway shows, airline tickets, probably not. Sure in this example, a few TUGers are spending $100k on a NYC timeshare and you really need to look at that as a true investment, but as mentioned earlier, these properties probably are worth $5 to $10 million dollars in adjoining buildings, so these purchases are actually a great deal viewed thru those optics.

This sounds like it was written by timeshare salesman, as they either can't do math or prefer customers that don't understand it.

Admittedly not my best subject but here goes:

Can you get a 2BR in NYC for $17k for several weeks? Let me know, I don't do AirBnb. My money is all sheltered in retirement accounts so I don't pay tax on the 8% (at least not yet). But personally I would rather have $17k a year to spend as I want, where I want - not locked up in a timeshare scheme.

But you are right. If I decided to spend $17k per year on lodging, I would use it at hotels where I get a small ROI (points) and where I don't jump through hoops to reserve the exact nights I need. Or, I rent a villa which again is far easier than jumping through hoops (and I get them for much cheaper than $17k in peak summer destinations)

I respect OP for working the system and getting what he wants likely for a fraction of what timeshare shills would sell him at retail. But it is fair to present the math, and to nail down the restrictions.

*

 

[ljmiii]

Can you get a 2BR in NYC for $17k for several weeks? Let me know,...

Upthread in response to the question, "You pay $8000 a year to spend a week in this Penthouse NYC Room?", I posted...

Does that seem too high or too low? Now that the Conrad Midtown is a Marriott, Hilton doesn't really have any comparables. But for the 2nd week in December...

Le Meridian - Jr suite is $11.5K and 1BR suite is $13K.
Luxury Collection Hotel (previously the Conrad) - 1BRs are $9.5K- 31.5K
Essex House - Rooms w/1K bed are $9-$12K and 2BRs are $80-90K (no 1BRs available)
Ritz-Carlton - 1BRs are $22-$105K

 

[Eric B]

Upthread in response to the question, "You pay $8000 a year to spend a week in this Penthouse NYC Room?", I posted...

Does that seem too high or too low? Now that the Conrad Midtown is a Marriott, Hilton doesn't really have any comparables. But for the 2nd week in December...

Le Meridian - Jr suite is $11.5K and 1BR suite is $13K.
Luxury Collection Hotel (previously the Conrad) - 1BRs are $9.5K- 31.5K
Essex House - Rooms w/1K bed are $9-$12K and 2BRs are $80-90K (no 1BRs available)
Ritz-Carlton - 1BRs are $22-$105K

Took me a second to realize that “1K bed” wasn’t really a thousand beds….

For me, the bottom line is that TUG includes folks that are willing and able to pay the prices for higher tier TS that you don’t often see resale, if ever. We all share insights on using a wide variety of different TS, which I value. We also help each other identify good and bad deals - buying a penthouse (or 3) at The Quin is one that I acknowledge isn’t the most efficient use of my funds but I’m at a point in life where I value experiences higher than incrementally higher account balances. I just don’t see myself regretting not having more cash unspent in the bank when I pass on….

 

[letsgobobby]

Appreciate that but still a bit hard to follow what you presently own. From above I gather your total cash cost (adding all purchases from the beginning) was $112.5k. The time value of that money at 8% is $9k per year. Your annual maintenance fees on the points are now $7.9k per year. So essentially your total cost is almost $17k per year.

But what exactly to you own? You mention HCNY, Quinn and Centrum. Do you own 2BR at all these properties? One week at each? Can you trade from October to December or does that cost more points?

Sorry for all the basic questions but I would love to understand the deal.

not who you asked but we have enough points for 5 nights annually in a W57th 1BR PH. MFs are $3700 and tied up money is $10k including all closing and activation costs. I’d call that a $4200 annual carrying cost. Excluding other benefits, that’s about $850 per night (including tax). It’s hard to see that as a bad deal, compared to the costs of nearby comparable rooms/hotels, to say nothing of nearby luxury hotels (which W57th isn’t).

Usually we stay in a standard 1 BR, where our points will cover 11 days, and the per night cost is under $400. Going off season or when rooms are discounted can be even less - 14 days in gold season, or 20 days when a sale is going on as it was at my last stay. Then rooms are as little as $200 per night.

The downside as you say is the need to plan somewhat in advance but with reservations cancelable until 31 days out, the risks are minimal.

Yes - you can just ‘go buy a bunch of points’ and use them anywhere in the HGVC system. In the HGVC system (not HVC) all ‘points’ to my knowledge are in fact attached to deeds. We have a couple point generators attached to deeds in Las Vegas and elsewhere. Those are good for lower demand HGVC locations where you can reserve during the 9 month club window without difficulty.

To have access to priority reservation windows at W57th you have to own W57th points. Those cost more in annual MFs.

Lots of ways to play this game.

 

[ljmiii]

In the HGVC system (not HVC) all ‘points’ to my knowledge are in fact attached to deeds.

Many (all?) of the non-US HGVC locations are not deeded. Not that it matters in the slightest.