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FOR SUNSET HARBOR OWNERS - BOD ELECTION

JanT

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Ultimately it is the responsibility of our elected BOD to ensure the resort is being taken care of. If they haven't held MVW to getting the work done, that's on the BOD.

No need to continue to debate this.

The reason it "looks like a run-down, nasty Motel 6 out in the middle of the Mojave Desert" is because Marriott is charged with maintaining the resort. If you want to point fingers, that's who to point them at. That's what that entire vote was about -- throwing MVC out on its ear, and finding a new company to manage Sunset Harbor.

MVC already has control over the resort. The vote was whether to let them maintain control over the resort. A "no" meant "Stay the course. Steady as she goes. Marriott has this." A yes vote meant "enough is enough. We need a new management company."
 

JanT

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The floors don't just look dirty, they ARE dirty - filthy!! I believe there is a plan to replace flooring starting in 2024. At least that's what I got from the meeting. I'll be requesting a copy of all the financials that were presented at the meeting and will have a better handle on things then. Of course, because it's been put off for so long, we're having to do it now when product and labor costs have skyrocketed, i.e., it's going to take a bigger chunk of the budget.

Yes, we have a problem - a huge one. Eventually all this "kicking the can down the road" is going to catch up with us and we're going to get hit with a special assessment. There is absolutely no way we're going to be able to get enough money in our reserves to cover all that. Especially now when they are having to replace balconies, etc. There's so much maintenance that needs to be done it's ridiculous. I'm not sure what the BOD have been thinking. That we'd raise money to do it all by holding a couple of bake sales? Nuts!

I am not going to put all the blame on the BOD. Hyatt/MVW has their failures, too and I'm definitely not a MVW "yes man," but, I do place the bulk of the responsibility at the feet of the BOD. Ultimately, they are responsible for holding MVW accountable and pushing them to get maintenance done. It's very obvious they haven't.

I simply cannot be so enthralled with the location of the resort that I can look the other way. It is disgusting. So, time to get engaged and try to get other owners engaged as well. We have to get owners communicating with each other so we can work together and keep both the BOD and MVW accountable.

Are there any plans to replace the floors? They always look dirty. Your point that units are not maintained to the standards of the other Hyatt resorts is spot on. We’ve been trading into Sunset for nearly 20 years and have put up with the lack of maintenance because of the location. Just this year we finally purchased a unit. Since we were going every year anyway, we decided that we would like a specific unit and purchased. At the time of purchase we were a bit concerned that the reserves were not sufficient to maintain the resort in a first class manner as the units need a lot of updating. After seeing the 2023 maintenance fee and how little of it is going to the reserves (and how much more it would take to fully fund the reserves,) it seems that indeed we have a problem.
 

ScoopKona

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Ultimately it is the responsibility of our elected BOD to ensure the resort is being taken care of. If they haven't held MVW to getting the work done, that's on the BOD.

No need to continue to debate this.

The BOD tried to change management companies. That's what the vote was about. I knew the fix was in when one of the board members did an about face and sided with MVC.

As far as I'm concerned, the board tried their level best to get owners to boot MVC as the management company -- and for good reasons which you have laid bare. I can't believe so many owners voted to keep MVC/Hyatt, when they are clearly running SH into the ground.
 

Kal

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The BOD tried to change management companies. That's what the vote was about. I knew the fix was in when one of the board members did an about face and sided with MVC.

As far as I'm concerned, the board tried their level best to get owners to boot MVC as the management company -- and for good reasons which you have laid bare. I can't believe so many owners voted to keep MVC/Hyatt, when they are clearly running SH into the ground.
Their vote wasn't about the MVC, but about the loss of HRC exchange opportunities. Keep the exchange and MVC might be gone.
 

GTLINZ

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I did not have a dog in this fight. But what amazes me is how owners got caught up in the BOD drama and failed to focus on voting to retain control of SH. This was a unique opportunity due to high weekend ownership usage, and misinformation won.
 

IslandTime

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If anyone is so miserable with Sunset Harbor that they want to sell week 49 in the 500 building at a bargain rate, please let me know.
 

JanT

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Owners didn't get so caught up in the BOD drama that they "failed to focus on voting to retain control of SH." Owners were smart enough to know there was a whole lot of smoke and mirrors in that effort. They were smart enough to know that not near enough work was done (in fact, basically nothing) to justify what the BOD was proposing. They were right to vote against it. There was so much misinformation floated, empty promises that could never come to fruition, I'm grateful owners were smart enough to push back against the BOD and the limited number of owners that were supporting it.

I've been doing a lot of digging and eventually will be putting together information for owners. Right now, I'm still in investigative mode. It gets more interesting every day.

I did not have a dog in this fight. But what amazes me is how owners got caught up in the BOD drama and failed to focus on voting to retain control of SH. This was a unique opportunity due to high weekend ownership usage, and misinformation won.
 

ScoopKona

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From the very first post of the Sunset Harbor vote thread:


The Board has noted the following important reasons to terminate our contracts:

  • A vote to terminate the Management Contract is a vote:
  1. to take back full control of our property;
  2. to eliminate excessive management fees; and
  3. to contract with new management which will work solely for the benefit of owners.
  • A vote to terminate the Club Resort Agreement is a vote:
  1. to eliminate substantial Club Fees which the Board believes do not benefit most owners;
  2. to eliminate the Club’s use of our property for transient 1-to-2-night reservations;
  3. to eliminate the Club’s requirement each year for owners to reserve or lose the right to use their deeded Unit Weeks; and
  4. to terminate owner use of the Club’s points-based reservation and exchange system and related services which is reviewed in the Appendix to this letter.

The Board believes that termination of the Management Contract and Club Resort Agreement will allow our Association to market our Resort and the benefits of ownership as we seek to improve the demand for and value of Unit Weeks.

@GTLINZ has it right. Regardless of what happened with the board, owners could have given Marriott the heave-ho. Misinformation won. I don't think owners will have another chance. Oh, sure, they can hold a vote as often as they want. But every week that Marriott ROFRs is another vote they get to hand pick a BOD to say "how high" when they say "jump." Now there is nothing stopping Marriott from selling the same property multiple times -- which is what they wanted. (Why build a resort when you have one you can just keep selling in perpetuity?)

The local term for this is "the hoodwink." When the city/county does something that nobody (except developers) want; and it turns out exactly how everyone said it would at the commission meetings; and it turns out to be an awful idea that enriches the few at the expense of the many; the city/county throws up their hands and cries, "We wuz hoodwinked." Find a local who was here for Peary Court, Truman Annex, the Mosquito Control scandal, the payphones on Smathers and similar. Hoodwink was thrown around more often than a volleyball on Smathers.

Schooner Wharf Bar is still nice, though.
 

JanT

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Scoop,

Yes, this is what they sent out but absolutely NO plan presented to back these claims up. When asked what management company would be used, we got the "We didn't want to spend Association money exploring that until we knew it was what owners wanted. And legally, we couldn't contact other management companies." They had absolutely no problem spending an exorbitant amount of money on that boondoggle without talking to owners previously. And there is zilch legally that prevented them from speaking to other management companies and even putting a RFP together and getting a proposal from them. That happens every day in the business world. If they can't write a simple RFP then we have the wrong people on the board.

How would owners have taken full control of their resort back? A management company would have been involved and have power. How much would that have cost? Oh, that's right! We don't know because they didn't offer any of that up. And why would they think any management company would work solely for the benefit of owners? They are a business - they're in it to make money, too. And maybe, just maybe that's part of the reason this BOD pushed for it? Who would have financially benefitted from that? Who was in the pipeline to have a wad of cash or a chunk of business pushed their way if MVW was booted out?

Substantial Club fees? Are we still bitching about the $57.00 per week fee? That's ridiculous. People who own at SH drop that or more on a meal.

I could go on and on. I can dispute everything you keep pushing. This BOD has breached its fiduciary duty to owners and they tried to lead owners down a path that would have ended up as an absolute nightmare. They've already launched us into a potential lawsuit with their dereliction of duty. There was misinformation put out there alright - by the BOD.

MVW is not buying back week after week. I know that for an absolute fact.

When people bought into Hyatt they should have realized and seen in their contract that there was almost certainly a clause that said the Hyatt Residence Club vacation plan was subject to change at any time. No one is trying to steal their weeks and force them into points. They have their weeks, they use them or they don't. Most BOD members don't even use their weeks. They rent them out for a nice tidy profit.

Please, just stop with all the drama of board members being bought off, "hoodwinked," etc. It's simply crazy damned talk. MVW is not going to risk everything they've built for a 44 unit property in Key West by "buying off" board members. Yes, it's a prime piece of real estate but they have much more money than is tied up here. You sound like a crazy person and I know you're not. Just stop with all this nonsense. It isn't helping.

From the very first post of the Sunset Harbor vote thread:


The Board has noted the following important reasons to terminate our contracts:

  • A vote to terminate the Management Contract is a vote:
  1. to take back full control of our property;
  2. to eliminate excessive management fees; and
  3. to contract with new management which will work solely for the benefit of owners.
  • A vote to terminate the Club Resort Agreement is a vote:
  1. to eliminate substantial Club Fees which the Board believes do not benefit most owners;
  2. to eliminate the Club’s use of our property for transient 1-to-2-night reservations;
  3. to eliminate the Club’s requirement each year for owners to reserve or lose the right to use their deeded Unit Weeks; and
  4. to terminate owner use of the Club’s points-based reservation and exchange system and related services which is reviewed in the Appendix to this letter.

The Board believes that termination of the Management Contract and Club Resort Agreement will allow our Association to market our Resort and the benefits of ownership as we seek to improve the demand for and value of Unit Weeks.

@GTLINZ has it right. Regardless of what happened with the board, owners could have given Marriott the heave-ho. Misinformation won. I don't think owners will have another chance. Oh, sure, they can hold a vote as often as they want. But every week that Marriott ROFRs is another vote they get to hand pick a BOD to say "how high" when they say "jump." Now there is nothing stopping Marriott from selling the same property multiple times -- which is what they wanted. (Why build a resort when you have one you can just keep selling in perpetuity?)

The local term for this is "the hoodwink." When the city/county does something that nobody (except developers) want; and it turns out exactly how everyone said it would at the commission meetings; and it turns out to be an awful idea that enriches the few at the expense of the many; the city/county throws up their hands and cries, "We wuz hoodwinked." Find a local who was here for Peary Court, Truman Annex, the Mosquito Control scandal, the payphones on Smathers and similar. Hoodwink was thrown around more often than a volleyball on Smathers.

Schooner Wharf Bar is still nice, though.
 

ScoopKona

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It was really very simple:

1) Vote MVC/Hyatt out of the management contract. (The second yes/no vote didn't matter one way or the other. Only the first vote was critically important.)

2) Hire a new management company. (I would have gone with the company that manages the Galleon. They're doing a good job. Galleon owners are happy with their resort. That's certainly better than what MVC is doing, and charging considerably more to do it.)

I think you are making this unnecessarily complex. The smart move was voting Hyatt/MVC out. SH owners were complaining about Hyatt management even back when I was working for the Hyatt. They have never been overjoyed about the job Hyatt is doing. And now less so that it's Hyatt-in-name-only. Henceforth, "HINO."

I really thought owners had a decent shot of getting out from under MVC. It's a real shame they didn't. I was rooting for SH owners. Giving MVC another whack upside the head might have jarred some sense into them. I'm sure Aspen owners agree with this sentiment.
 

Kal

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ScoopKona is not speaking of conspiracy but rather years of Key West political experience. IMHO, he is simply saying it's almost impossible to make a change that would benefit anyone other that the high rollers in Key West. The BOD asked basic questions but then were buried by at least one BOD member and Marriott thru their disinformation program of stooges. By far and away, HSH owners rarely if ever vote on anything. Thus it becomes big money and the high rollers who control. So now look at the election of the new BOD. You can easily see where MVC placed their votes. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see who was rewarded for being the MVC YES people. It's also noteworthy that Don Heisler did not receive MVC votes. Thank goodness Don is still there even tho silenced by the MVC YES people.
 

ScoopKona

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ScoopKona is not speaking of conspiracy but rather years of Key West political experience. IMHO, he is simply saying it's almost impossible to make a change that would benefit anyone other that the high rollers in Key West.

And I'm not going to "name names." Because I still have friends and family on the island. There is only so much boat rocking I'm willing to do. This is no longer my circus. But I'm still friends with quite a few monkeys. And why make their existence less pleasant just to score debate points on a timeshare forum?

Best course of action was to vote yes on question 1 and toss Marriott out on its ear. That didn't happen. Now Marriott is going to consolidate. They won't ROFR every week. But they're going to ROFR diamond and platinum weeks left and right.
 

GTLINZ

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Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.
 

Kal

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Scoop,

Yes, this is what they sent out but absolutely NO plan presented to back these claims up. When asked what management company would be used, we got the "We didn't want to spend Association money exploring that until we knew it was what owners wanted. And legally, we couldn't contact other management companies." They had absolutely no problem spending an exorbitant amount of money on that boondoggle without talking to owners previously. And there is zilch legally that prevented them from speaking to other management companies and even putting a RFP together and getting a proposal from them. That happens every day in the business world. If they can't write a simple RFP then we have the wrong people on the board.

How would owners have taken full control of their resort back? A management company would have been involved and have power. How much would that have cost? Oh, that's right! We don't know because they didn't offer any of that up. And why would they think any management company would work solely for the benefit of owners? They are a business - they're in it to make money, too. And maybe, just maybe that's part of the reason this BOD pushed for it? Who would have financially benefitted from that? Who was in the pipeline to have a wad of cash or a chunk of business pushed their way if MVW was booted out?

Substantial Club fees? Are we still bitching about the $57.00 per week fee? That's ridiculous. People who own at SH drop that or more on a meal.

I could go on and on. I can dispute everything you keep pushing. This BOD has breached its fiduciary duty to owners and they tried to lead owners down a path that would have ended up as an absolute nightmare. They've already launched us into a potential lawsuit with their dereliction of duty. There was misinformation put out there alright - by the BOD.

MVW is not buying back week after week. I know that for an absolute fact.

When people bought into Hyatt they should have realized and seen in their contract that there was almost certainly a clause that said the Hyatt Residence Club vacation plan was subject to change at any time. No one is trying to steal their weeks and force them into points. They have their weeks, they use them or they don't. Most BOD members don't even use their weeks. They rent them out for a nice tidy profit.

Please, just stop with all the drama of board members being bought off, "hoodwinked," etc. It's simply crazy damned talk. MVW is not going to risk everything they've built for a 44 unit property in Key West by "buying off" board members. Yes, it's a prime piece of real estate but they have much more money than is tied up here. You sound like a crazy person and I know you're not. Just stop with all this nonsense. It isn't helping.
A buy off could be as simple as putting out the word that the BOD member has MVW's votes for the upcoming election. The payoff is simply "Woopee, I get to be on the BOD for the next term!" How did that work? Yep, that BOD member got MVW's votes, which are decisive with routine poor owner turnout.
 
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GTLINZ

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You're not in Kansas anymore.

LOL Kal. I was just trying to interject some humor with a famous line from a movie and you took it to another level.

JanT - my reference/analagy was that the wizard of oz wanted owners to pay attention to what was on the screen and not to what was actually happening. A simple vote and a chance to control your own destiny by breaking away. I am not sure why it had to become all about the board.

Again i don't own there and I am not emotionally involved. So good luck with resolving the mound of issues you have correctly outlined without having much control. Just my opinion, obviously. I hope i did not get you riled up.
 
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JanT

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No, I just didn't understand what you meant. I'm riled up but it has nothing to do with you.

LOL Kal. I was just trying to interject some humor with a famous line from a movie and you took it to another level.

JanT - my reference/analagy was that the wizard of oz wanted owners to pay attention to what was on the screen and not to what was actually happening. A simple vote and a chance to control your own destiny by breaking away. I am not sure why it had to become all about the board.

Again i don't own there and I am not emotionally involved. So good luck with resolving the mound of issues you have correctly outlined without having much control. Just my opinion, obviously. I hope i did not get you riled up.
 

JanT

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No, I'm not. I'm not sure what you think of me (and don't really care) but let me assure you that I'm an educated, intelligent person, who just happens to finally be paying attention at what the Hell is going on at a resort that I paid a lot of money for and continue to pay a lot of money for.

I may be fighting a losing battle but unlike many others, I don't think the fight is solely with MVW and I don't view MVW as the bogeyman. I'm not happy with them either but I'm not so damned paranoid about their intentions that I lose sight of reality. I'm going to be fighting two entities. People can say whatever they want about me: call me naive, foolish, bored, looking for "a life" - it doesn't matter to me. I'm not going to sit back and do nothing. Maybe I'll make a difference or maybe I won't. But, I refuse to sit on my ass and do nothing. In the end I can look at myself in the mirror and know that I at least tried. If I accomplish nothing, well it's no skin off anyone else's nose. It's my time and money spent; my anger, my frustration.

Owners can be united but it's going to take some effort. Not many have tried is my guess. I've certainly never gotten any correspondence from anyone. The problem is apparently SH has a lot of apathetic owners but they need to wake the Hell up. The drum keeps getting pounded that MVW is the sole problem here and they aren't. The BOD has their own ulterior motives and they have failed owners. In my opinion, they're intentionally running the resort into the ground, refusing to bring the resort up to an acceptable level - all for their own benefit.

If owners at SH are content to stay at this nasty, filthy, rundown resort and can accept what's coming down the line, well that's their choice. They can choose to spend their time at a local restaurant or bar and go back to a bug invested, rotting room. If they believe that load of termination crap sent out by the board, they're foolish. Lowering MFs? LoL Cutting Management Company costs? LoL Complete control over their resort? LoL Raise resale prices? What the Hell are these people smoking???? Timeshares aren't investments. Only people lying to you will tell you that.

But, again, that's other owners' choices. But, it's not mine. If there aren't changes made, I'll walk away from my units. They can foreclose if they want but if they screw with my credit, they will have the biggest fight on their hands that they've ever seen. No court of law will uphold anything they try to do when presented with evidence of a decaying resort and the BOD breach of fiduciary duty to owners. Do they really want to open that can of worms?

But, actually if I choose to rid myself of SH, I think I'll just sign my deeds over to MVW - personally deliver the deeds to MVW, in fact. Gives them 3 more votes and stronger control and hopefully they'll force the BOD to take action to clean this damned mess up. It won't be my problem anymore but the owners who linger behind will be in for a really rude awakening when the BOD continues to let this resort run down to the point of no recovery. Don't believe me? Just watch.


You're not in Kansas anymore.
 
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ScoopKona

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I may be fighting a losing battle but unlike many others, I don't think the fight is solely with MVW and I don't view MVW as the bogeyman. I'm not happy with them either but I'm not so damned paranoid about their intentions that I lose sight of reality. I'm going to be fighting two entities. People can say whatever they want about me: call me naive, foolish, bored, looking for "a life" - it doesn't matter to me. I'm not going to sit back and do nothing. Maybe I'll make a difference or maybe I won't. But, I refuse to sit on my ass and do nothing. In the end I can look at myself in the mirror and know that I at least tried. If I accomplish nothing, well it's no skin off anyone else's nose. It's my time and money spent; my anger, my frustration.

Your best opportunity to do something already came... and went. If you were as fired up to get people to vote yes on question one, we wouldn't be having this discussion right now. Sunset Harbor would no longer be a Hyatt resort. And the owners would be discussing the new management company, and how they're doing compared to Hyatt.

I also fail to see why you're so angry with the BOD instead of the real culprit -- the management company. Don Heisler isn't in charge of cleaning the resort. MVC is. If you don't think you're getting your money's worth, that isn't Don's fault. It's not that you're fighting a losing battle. You're fighting the wrong battle entirely. That battle already happened.

Compare the Galleon to Sunset Harbor. Compare resale prices. Compare the cleanliness of the resort. Compare how the owners feel about their condo. There's no comparison. Sunset Harbor should be managed by the same company which manages the Galleon. They're right over there, after all. You should go to the Galleon and ask to have a look around. I'm sure they'll let you.
 

IslandTime

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If owners at SH are content to stay at this nasty, filthy, rundown resort and can accept what's coming down the line, well that's their choice. They can choose to spend their time at a local restaurant or bar and go back to a bug invested, rotting room. If they believe that load of termination crap sent out by the board, they're foolish. Lowering MFs? LoL Cutting Management Company costs? LoL Complete control over their resort? LoL Raise resale prices? What the Hell are these people smoking???? Timeshares aren't investments. Only people lying to you will tell you that.

But, again, that's other owners' choices. But, it's not mine. If there aren't changes made, I'll walk away from my units. They can foreclose if they want but if they screw with my credit, they will have the biggest fight on their hands that they've ever seen. No court of law will uphold anything they try to do when presented with evidence of a decaying resort and the BOD breach of fiduciary duty to owners. Do they really want to open that can of worms?

But, actually if I choose to rid myself of SH, I think I'll just sign my deeds over to MVW - personally deliver the deeds to MVW, in fact. Gives them 3 more votes and stronger control and hopefully they'll force the BOD to take action to clean this damned mess up. It won't be my problem anymore but the owners who linger behind will be in for a really rude awakening when the BOD continues to let this resort run down to the point of no recovery. Don't believe me? Just watch.

Would you mind sharing which units you've stayed in that are nasty, filthy, bug infested and rotting? We've only owned since 2011 and at times I have felt the tile floors could use an extra mopping but none of the units we've stayed in have fit your description. We were there for a week in July and I find it hard to believe it's gone that far downhill since then. And we stay at HSH every year for at least a week. Prior to 2021 we stayed there multiple weeks a year. We don't always stay in the unit we own because we often stay multiple weeks spread throughout the year in a studio. But I just can't believe we've stayed in the same units as you, based on your comments.

I don't share the animosity for our BOD that you do, nor do I understand it. Do you really think the BOD doesn't care about the condition of the resort? It's not like they're paid to be on the board - unlike Marriott being paid big bucks to run and maintain the resort. But go ahead, give your weeks to Marriott - that will show us. Marriott already won, the owners did not.
 

JanT

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Island Time,

I’d prefer not to reveal what unit were in right now. I can post that later, after we leave. And I have to run down what unit we were in last December. I can’t remember off the top of my head and haven’t walked over there yet.

Did you look at the pictures I posted in this same thread? If not, take a look at them. I promise you those were taken in our unit.

I know some people do not understand my animosity towards the BOD. I’m very angry right now - at MVW and the BOD. There are just failures all the way around. I’ve done a lot of research and what I’m finding is driving frustration at both parties.

I can do whatever I want with my weeks. If I choose to just sign them back over because I refuse to try to suck someone else into buying an inferior product, that’s my choice. I honestly don’t see myself doing that but they’ve got to change things here. Otherwise, we’re all going to want to get out.



Would you mind sharing which units you've stayed in that are nasty, filthy, bug infested and rotting? We've only owned since 2011 and at times I have felt the tile floors could use an extra mopping but none of the units we've stayed in have fit your description. We were there for a week in July and I find it hard to believe it's gone that far downhill since then. And we stay at HSH every year for at least a week. Prior to 2021 we stayed there multiple weeks a year. We don't always stay in the unit we own because we often stay multiple weeks spread throughout the year in a studio. But I just can't believe we've stayed in the same units as you, based on your comments.

I don't share the animosity for our BOD that you do, nor do I understand it. Do you really think the BOD doesn't care about the condition of the resort? It's not like they're paid to be on the board - unlike Marriott being paid big bucks to run and maintain the resort. But go ahead, give your weeks to Marriott - that will show us. Marriott already won, the owners did not.
 
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SUN-N-Fun

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It almost sounds like a member directory and a way to communicate directly with existing owners would be a good thing. Pretty sure I asked about one months ago and the only ones are held by a handful of people.

How can owners communicate with one another? A message board or FB group isn’t it
 

AJCts411

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It almost sounds like a member directory and a way to communicate directly with existing owners would be a good thing. Pretty sure I asked about one months ago and the only ones are held by a handful of people.

How can owners communicate with one another? A message board or FB group isn’t it

It is too bad that just ONE of those who were on the Marylin email chain that exposed all of the owners email adresses would not forward the same email to Jan or myself. That would be a least start at evening the playing field.
 
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