Florida is the least affordable place to live in the USA

[Mongoose]

It's hardly "fake news." Hawaii is "chump change" compared to living in the nice parts of Florida. Where are the nice parts? Draw a red line around the coast -- except for mainland Monroe county. That line. No place else.

ScoopLV you tend to speak in absolutes and make statements indicating "that's the way it is" and don't seem to provide any supporting material. Note that I actually provided links that show FL isn't even in the top 10. There is a reason people are moving there and leaving states like CA, NY, MA, NJ, CT.

 

[ScoopKona]

ScoopLV you tend to speak in absolutes and make statements indicating "that's the way it is" and don't seem to provide any supporting material. Note that I actually provided links that show FL isn't even in the top 10. There is a reason people are moving there and leaving states like CA, NY, MA, NJ, CT.

Damned straight.

I've lived in both the nice parts and inland. There's no comparison. Throw away tropical storms and the associated insurance, and pretty-much everyone who lives in Ocala, The Villages and Gainesville would gladly trade their house for Key Biscayne, Key Largo, Palm Beach or Bal Harbour.

Living inland is a trade off, and there is no other way to put it. The bulk of the population of Florida lives close to the coast, because that's where the pleasant climate is. Comparing the cost of living for Jennings (near the Georgia border) with Miami Beach is ridiculous. And it's also ridiculous to suggest that Florida is more like Jennings and less like Miami Beach. There are nightclubs in Miami Beach with more Floridians than the entire town of Jennings.

The rule of thumb with California is "drive East until you can make the payments." And the rule of thumb with Florida is "drive inland until you can make the payments."

But the bulk of the population lives in the pricey zip codes. And Florida really is the least-affordable state in the USA.

 

[ScoopKona]

Note that I actually provided links that show FL isn't even in the top 10.

Your link was for average home prices only. That's only one part of the equation -- you also have to consider cost of living and wages. Hawaii has a very high cost of living, high housing costs -- but also high wages. There is very little poverty here.

Florida has either medium or sky-high housing costs, either medium or sky-high cost of living, and low wages. Trying to make the numbers work, living on the coast, is BRUTAL.

You've got the only two Floridians trying to tell you what life in Florida is really like. You should listen, if you want to live there.

 

[tombanjo]

a stupid quote from the article

"
However, for high-paid transplants coming to Florida from New York or Los Angeles, even the heftiest prices may still seem like bargains.
"For migrating tech workers leaving San Francisco, New York, Chicago, being able to save thousands of dollars each year remains a compelling driver… to relocate," said John Boyd, the principal of Boca Raton site-selection firm the Boyd Co. told MoneyWatch
"

So, the reason they are moving to save thousands, is because Florida is the least affordable ? Then why not stay in SF or LA if they are more affordable than Florida ?

Is this where all those tech bros are moving from the bay area ? Hedge Fund Manager from Manhattan coming to Pahokee as the "least affordable" state location they want to live in ?

Things like "affordability" have multiple and complex levels. If everyone working in a particular state at McDonalds part time is making over a million dollars a year, and houses are $400,000 for a new 4 bedroom, that's affordable, but if the average wage is $40,000 a year and a new 4 bedroom house is $300,000, that is not affordable.

So the housing cost by itself is not a measure of "affordability"

That is not to say there are no issues with the housing market in SOUTH Florida causing issues with people being able to continue to live where they may have grown up, but headlines and stories like this are really useless they actually get a bit into what makes a place affordable using more than a single data point.

 

[x3 skier]

So other than tropical storms, Florida is great? Sort of like other than tornadoes or war or earthquakes or volcanoes or sub zero temperatures or you name it, someplace else is great as well

Cheers

 

[tombanjo]

Florida is famous for the "face eating" murderers, pyramid schemes, fraud, drug crazed naked people trying to have sex with a trees and other inanimate objects, and that is just the old folks in "Celebration" - the Disney manufactured "hometown". For the real action, head to the "Margaritaville" retirement community of "Parrot Heads".

When looking at quality of life, you have to include the excitement of alligators in your pool, Cougars (all types) showing up at 3 am on your patio and being run over by a dump truck at 6 am on 595 when you run out of gas.

On a sad note, Wolfie's no longer has the early bird with the Strawberry Jell-O and coolwhip. The zimmer frames used to be 4-5 deep at the door at 4 pm.

When was the last time you saw a headline "Arkansas Man gets naked, climbs to top of 300 foot crane" ? - Never, cause it is Florida that is the national leader in naked men on top of cranes.

Florida really is tops in so many things that the occasional death and wide swatches of destruction from hurricanes is just a small part of our glorious pageant of living here.

 

[joestein]

Florida is famous for the "face eating" murderers, pyramid schemes, fraud, drug crazed naked people trying to have sex with a trees and other inanimate objects, and that is just the old folks in "Celebration" - the Disney manufactured "hometown". For the real action, head to the "Margaritaville" retirement community of "Parrot Heads".

When looking at quality of life, you have to include the excitement of alligators in your pool, Cougars (all types) showing up at 3 am on your patio and being run over by a dump truck at 6 am on 595 when you run out of gas.

On a sad note, Wolfie's no longer has the early bird with the Strawberry Jell-O and coolwhip. The zimmer frames used to be 4-5 deep at the door at 4 pm.

When was the last time you saw a headline "Arkansas Man gets naked, climbs to top of 300 foot crane" ? - Never, cause it is Florida that is the national leader in naked men on top of cranes.

Florida really is tops in so many things that the occasional death and wide swatches of destruction from hurricanes is just a small part of our glorious pageant of living here.

The hate for Florida is off the charts. Can you point us to the articles about the crazy people at Margarita retirement community? Because I can't seem to find them.

No reckless behavior or accidental car deaths occur elsewhere?

Joe

 

[tombanjo]

That part is satire. At least you agree about the folks in Celebration.

 

[Brett]

The hate for Florida is off the charts. Can you point us to the articles about the crazy people at Margarita retirement community? Because I can't seem to find them.

No reckless behavior or accidental car deaths occur elsewhere?

Joe

Margaritaville sounds less crazy than the Villages at least according to this article
https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2022/03/28/retirement-the-margaritaville-way

 

[ScoopKona]

Margaritaville sounds less crazy than the Villages at least according to this article

From the article: Chuck told me, “If you don’t get here and automatically relax and think, This is great, there’s something wrong with you, and you don’t belong here.”

I am certain that there is something wrong with me, and I don't belong there.

Coming from Key West, I have a complicated relationship with Parrotheads. On the plus side, they hold their liquor better than the other major groups that have an annual festival in Key West. (Or at least did-have. I have no idea when the last MOTM was held.) Every year, I heard something like this. "You have no idea how much I envy you! I wish *I* lived in Key West."

Me: "Then why don't you move here?"

Them: "Oh, I have a *life* back home."

As if we don't have lives here. Just existing to mix drinks for tourists. (And many people do mix drinks. It's a good line of work.)

But, you have to get use to such things living in a tourist town.

 

[rapmarks]

That article was quite a read. I do think spending winter in Florida prolongs life if they are active.

 

[Mongoose]

Your link was for average home prices only. That's only one part of the equation -- you also have to consider cost of living and wages. Hawaii has a very high cost of living, high housing costs -- but also high wages. There is very little poverty here.

Florida has either medium or sky-high housing costs, either medium or sky-high cost of living, and low wages. Trying to make the numbers work, living on the coast, is BRUTAL.

You've got the only two Floridians trying to tell you what life in Florida is really like. You should listen, if you want to live there.

Ok, well here is overall cost of living. BTW, HI is #1, FL about average. You can hate on FL all you want, but there are many reasons that people are leaving other states in droves and heading to FL. The population jumped 15% in 10 years.

Cost of living comparison by state | Insure.com

 

[ScoopKona]

Ok, well here is overall cost of living. BTW, HI is #1, FL about average. You can hate on FL all you want, but there are many reasons that people are leaving other states in droves and heading to FL. The population jumped 15% in 10 years.

Cost of living comparison by state | Insure.com

And NOW you have to figure in wages. ALL THREE. That's the affordability rating -- price of housing vs. cost of living vs. wages. It's easy to make any area work for a millionaire tycoon. But for a wage-earner in coastal Florida with a five-figure windstorm premium, the numbers become VERY hard to juggle. And even if they're not paying the Citizen's premium directly, it's cooked into their rent.

And I don't "hate on Florida." I'm a Florida boy, after all. But Florida has high prices and low wages. Ask anyone. Drive to Miami or the Keys or Marco Island or similar, and ask the person working the ice-cream stand about wages vs. cost of living.

That doesn't register for most retirees. They're buying a their house/condo with cash. They have savings, a 401K and similar. And they don't need to work. They don't need to empathize about what its like to be a wage-earner in Ft. Lauderdale or similar. "I've got mine, Jack" is a fairly common attitude in the inland swath of the state. But that doesn't make Florida affordable. Not in the least -- it's actually part of the problem.

A typical response at that point is, "Well, if you can't make the payments, LEAVE! Move someplace where you can!"

And people are doing just that. Most of my friends and family in the Keys have moved. They can't make the numbers work. And the entire system is breaking down because towns don't have enough teachers/cops/waiters/landscapers/nurses to go around. Nobody is going to pay the person working the ice-cream stand a living wage. That's just how it is.

 

[TravelTime]

Damned straight.

I've lived in both the nice parts and inland. There's no comparison. Throw away tropical storms and the associated insurance, and pretty-much everyone who lives in Ocala, The Villages and Gainesville would gladly trade their house for Key Biscayne, Key Largo, Palm Beach or Bal Harbour.

Living inland is a trade off, and there is no other way to put it. The bulk of the population of Florida lives close to the coast, because that's where the pleasant climate is. Comparing the cost of living for Jennings (near the Georgia border) with Miami Beach is ridiculous. And it's also ridiculous to suggest that Florida is more like Jennings and less like Miami Beach. There are nightclubs in Miami Beach with more Floridians than the entire town of Jennings.

The rule of thumb with California is "drive East until you can make the payments." And the rule of thumb with Florida is "drive inland until you can make the payments."

But the bulk of the population lives in the pricey zip codes. And Florida really is the least-affordable state in the USA.

I grew up in Miami-Dade and lived in Miami until age 22 and also lived there from age 30-35. I think the bulk of Florida’s population lives inland. In Miami-Dade, once you get past Coral Gables, it is pretty inland. Even Coral Gables is inland and takes 30-45 minutes to get to the beach, although not as long to get to bay in Coconut Grove and parts of Coral Gables are on the bay/ocean. I went to college at University of Miami in Coral Gables. Coral Gables is gorgeous, has unique architecture and one of the pricey zip codes.

I do not think the majority of Florida’s population lives in pricey zip codes. However, nowadays, many zip codes that were affordable not that long ago have become expensive esp relative to average incomes in Florida. Miami-Dade has really boomed compared to when I last lived there.

 

[ScoopKona]

I do not think the majority of Florida’s population lives in pricey zip codes.

If you look at a population density map of Florida, you'll see that they do. I get what you're saying about Dade County (I refuse to call it Miami Dade. I hated the name-change then and I hate it now.) Keep driving west from Miami and eventually you get to the parts of the county that were created to be problem areas from the get go. They're not exactly high-dollar, compared to anything around MacArthur. But the people who live there (inland from Miami) aren't getting what they pay for, either.

The only coastal areas of Florida which *aren't* heavily populated are the ones that were too swampy to develop in the first place. Mainland Monroe and the area around Suwanee, for instance. But if they could get a toehold -- Panama City, for instance -- they did.

 

[TravelTime]

If you look at a population density map of Florida, you'll see that they do. I get what you're saying about Dade County (I refuse to call it Miami Dade. I hated the name-change then and I hate it now.) Keep driving west from Miami and eventually you get to the parts of the county that were created to be problem areas from the get go. They're not exactly high-dollar, compared to anything around MacArthur. But the people who live there (inland from Miami) aren't getting what they pay for, either.

The only coastal areas of Florida which *aren't* heavily populated are the ones that were too swampy to develop in the first place. Mainland Monroe and the area around Suwanee, for instance. But if they could get a toehold -- Panama City, for instance -- they did.

I agree on the name change. Personally I never actually say Miami-Dade. I usually say Miami to refer to all of Dade County. This is what people said when I lived there. Sometimes I would say Dade County but not as often. I always referred to Broward as Broward and not Ft Lauderdale.

When you say population density, how far inland are you referring to? When I was growing up, anything west or south of Coral Gables was considered really far out there. Now, I do not think locals have this perception anymore.

 

[ScoopKona]

When you say population density, how far inland are you referring to? When I was growing up, anything west or south of Coral Gables was considered really far out there. Now, I do not think locals have this perception anymore.

If you google Florida Population Density Map, you'll see the one I mean. A big line of red around the coast, except in the swampy areas. Only Orlando has any real density inland. The rest are rather light compared to the coasts.

Granted -- there are some horrible areas of Tampa, Miami and Jax that aren't high-dollar but ARE high density. I'm not trying to call these places "paradise." But it's fair to say that most of the population lives within a quick drive to the ocean, and a very large percentage lives within sight of the Gulf or Atlantic. (And in my lucky case when I lived there, both.)

I don't think what's happening in Florida is long-term sustainable. But I left quite awhile ago -- my hometown ceased to feel like "home." Why pay so much for something that isn't working anymore?

 

[TravelTime]

If you google Florida Population Density Map, you'll see the one I mean. A big line of red around the coast, except in the swampy areas. Only Orlando has any real density inland. The rest are rather light compared to the coasts.

Granted -- there are some horrible areas of Tampa, Miami and Jax that aren't high-dollar but ARE high density. I'm not trying to call these places "paradise." But it's fair to say that most of the population lives within a quick drive to the ocean, and a very large percentage lives within sight of the Gulf or Atlantic. (And in my lucky case when I lived there, both.)

I don't think what's happening in Florida is long-term sustainable. But I left quite awhile ago -- my hometown ceased to feel like "home." Why pay so much for something that isn't working anymore?

I googled the density map. I have not been able to find one that shows how far out based on specific streets the population density goes. The maps I see show high population density in all of Dade County and does not show specific streets or neighborhoods. My comments are based on Dade County and not all of Florida. If Dade County is actually more populated on the coast (i.e. within 5-10 miles of the coast), it could be due to high rises since those are all found on Biscayne Bay and Miami Beach. Or it could be that the red area on the maps extends to streets/neighborhoods I would consider to be inland. BTW, when I say Miami Beach, I am actually referring to the towns north of Miami Beach too. I am a bit familiar with Broward County since I lived there for a brief time and have family and friends in Broward. I am not familiar with population patterns in Broward like I am with Dade. Driving just 10 miles east/west in Dade county can take a very long time as you might know so that is pretty inland to me. In other towns, 10 miles is nothing.

 

[amycurl]

Google "Florida Man" and your birthday....here's mine:
"Florida Man hit dad in face with pizza..."
You can't make this stuff up.

 

[Brett]

Google "Florida Man" and your birthday....here's mine:
"Florida Man hit dad in face with pizza..."
You can't make this stuff up.

https://floridaman.com/birthday-challenge

 

[chriskre]

I have wanted to move to Florida for the nice weather - except for the summer, which I won't spend there.

I have thought that I might travel for the summer. I had been thinking of 2 homes, but I think it might make more financial sense just to Airbnb somewhere for the summer. OR maybe use the last call feature of RCI. Who knows?

Maybe we will rent for a while to see what we like.

Joe

Vacation Village allows owners to do 8 consecutive weeks in their Weston properties.
That's a western suburb of Fort Lauderdale.
The timeshares are decent and the neighborhood is upscale.
It's next to the Everglades and a short 1 hour trip to Naples.
I stay there often if I want to do a staycation and go shopping at the Outlet malls.
You can pick it up in RCI last calls and get aways for cheap.
They have 3 properties.
I'm not sure if you can do 8 weeks in each resort or if it's 8 weeks total.

 

[chriskre]

I have a downtown Miami condo and the rents have skyrocketed this past year with the pandemic.
I'm in a facebook group with people coming to Miami looking for rentals and trying to move and
so many are getting rent increases of $1000 to $1500 on their new leases.
So rents that were already high for a 1 bedroom at $1800 are now $2800 to $3000.
People are moving to the western suburbs and not finding much relief there either.

I own rental property in the western Miami suburbs and my 2 bedroom bread and butter
rentals that I was getting $1500 last year are now renewing at $2000-$2300 and they
are getting snapped up before they hit the market.

It's insane what is going on.
People are coming here from out west with a years rent up front and beating out the locals.
Not just rich people either, UPS drivers relocating from Nevada type people, with a year of
rent to pay up front. So it's not just California and NY escapees, they are coming from all over.
It's crazy to be honest. You'd think there was a gold rush here. LOL

 

[joestein]

[political - deleted]

 

[chriskre]

That is what happened when you have a eviction/mortgage moratorium. Plus you give out free money and unemployment in excess of wages.

People have tons of cash with a limited supply of housing. No different than what has happened on the supermarket shelves. Tons of cash and limited supply.

This doesn't take into account the amount of grift and fraud that has taken place. Watching Bill Mahr he spoke about how the GAO found a minimum of $150BB of fraud of the $800BB unemployment program. Another organization who investigated came up with a number closed to $400BB. So, we lost $150BB - $400BB of the unemployment supplement to Fraud which equates to a range of 19% to 50%. You barely see any stories about this. He noted one particular household that received $2.3MM in unemployment subsidies.

Is there anything the gov't is doing well in this country? Regardless of party in control.

Maybe, I don't know what it is, all I know is that I pulled my Brickell condo off the market and refinanced it instead of selling it.
The building next door to mind just sold at 2.5 million per door to tear it down!
During the pandemic I only got offers for my unit for $250K.
No way, Jose, I'm holding out.
Investors are looking for places to snap up and my building is 40 years old.
All of us old farts who have lived there for 20 plus years don't want to pay huge special assessments to upgrade the building
so eventually I'm sure someone will want our full block of prime real estate. We just are not the highest and best use of that
prime Brickell Ave real estate anymore. I love my unit, it's a loft but it's time is limited and I'm okay with that.
It was the Russians and Chinese who were buying up the land around me so who knows how they are going to do it now
but I'm sure they'll find a way to get around the banking blocks.
Miami is full of corruption.