First Post: Wyndham Discovery (trial) member, help? [MERGED]

[katieg]

Hope I am in the right place. I am completely new to timesharing.

Family and I are not new to timeshare presentations - we've attended a couple in past vacations where there was an incentive given to go (free or greatly reduced tickets to something we wanted to do or see). At those times we went and did not purchase anything. Got our tickets and left.

We just got back from a vacation where we attended a Wyndham presentation for the same purpose of getting discounted tickets for our activities on our trip. This was the first timeshare presentation we've seen that was points based and not weeks based. It is also the first one we've seen that offered a trial membership without full commitment of ownership right off the bat. So we took a leap of faith and purchased a trial "Discovery membership" of 300,000 points that now must be used by 04/2017.

We didn't even take a second glance at the information about what we have purchased until we got home a few days ago. I am now going through everything and trying to acclimate myself to the culture and language of timeshares and understand how it all works. All I have ever heard are rumors that timeshares are a "scam" and that they aren't a good deal at all due to fees, not enough availability and the fact that you can't cancel them. I don't know how true any of that is. I've caught a lot of flack so far from everyone I have told about our purchase, so I'm really hoping I didn't make a bad decision!

For anyone who is familiar with a Wyndham "Discovery" membership (or please direct me to where I would find those folks), I have some basic questions:

1. During our presentation we were told that points can be used to purchase non-lodging items like flights, tickets to Disney and rental cars. Is this not true for Discovery members? (The real reason I bought the discovery membership was to help offset the cost of a trip to Disney next year for our family.) How do I find out what non-lodging items I can buy?

2. I am hoping that by traveling to Disney during off peak times, we will have enough points to use the 300,000 to get us two trips next year. It looks like this is going to be nearly impossible now that I am trying to piece together the logistics of when we can reasonably take two trips (one will have to be during peak season, requiring more points than we have). How do most timeshare owners handle this? Is this a common issue?

3. How do you purchase more points if you need them? Say you are only a few hundred short...do you have to upgrade your plan to have that many for each year in the future or can you purchase points for a one time use?

4. If you are or were a Discovery member, how did you like it? Did you decide to go into an ownership after? Why or why not?

5. Any other tips and tricks for a newbie are appreciated!

Thanks in advance for the help!

 

[raygo123]

Book now!!!

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[raygo123]

How much did u pay?

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[vacationhopeful]

Rescind NOW ... take the money YOU spent for the membership and RENT from a Platinum owner who get 50% discounts and unit upgrades at the 60 day from checkin mark.

And start reading MORE about all the points systems ... and then BUY RESALE.

 

[Ty1on]

Hope I am in the right place. I am completely new to timesharing.

Family and I are not new to timeshare presentations - we've attended a couple in past vacations where there was an incentive given to go (free or greatly reduced tickets to something we wanted to do or see). At those times we went and did not purchase anything. Got our tickets and left.

We just got back from a vacation where we attended a Wyndham presentation for the same purpose of getting discounted tickets for our activities on our trip. This was the first timeshare presentation we've seen that was points based and not weeks based. It is also the first one we've seen that offered a trial membership without full commitment of ownership right off the bat. So we took a leap of faith and purchased a trial "Discovery membership" of 300,000 points that now must be used by 04/2017.

We didn't even take a second glance at the information about what we have purchased until we got home a few days ago. I am now going through everything and trying to acclimate myself to the culture and language of timeshares and understand how it all works. All I have ever heard are rumors that timeshares are a "scam" and that they aren't a good deal at all due to fees, not enough availability and the fact that you can't cancel them. I don't know how true any of that is. I've caught a lot of flack so far from everyone I have told about our purchase, so I'm really hoping I didn't make a bad decision!

For anyone who is familiar with a Wyndham "Discovery" membership (or please direct me to where I would find those folks), I have some basic questions:

1. During our presentation we were told that points can be used to purchase non-lodging items like flights, tickets to Disney and rental cars. Is this not true for Discovery members? (The real reason I bought the discovery membership was to help offset the cost of a trip to Disney next year for our family.) How do I find out what non-lodging items I can buy?

2. I am hoping that by traveling to Disney during off peak times, we will have enough points to use the 300,000 to get us two trips next year. It looks like this is going to be nearly impossible now that I am trying to piece together the logistics of when we can reasonably take two trips (one will have to be during peak season, requiring more points than we have). How do most timeshare owners handle this? Is this a common issue?

3. How do you purchase more points if you need them? Say you are only a few hundred short...do you have to upgrade your plan to have that many for each year in the future or can you purchase points for a one time use?

4. If you are or were a Discovery member, how did you like it? Did you decide to go into an ownership after? Why or why not?

5. Any other tips and tricks for a newbie are appreciated!

Thanks in advance for the help!

Rescinding is not a bad idea if you are still within the rescission period. Otherwise,

With points, you don't have to use an entire week at a time. You might find two trips doable if you take a full week in a lower season and part of a week in the Prime season. If you do a week in High season at Bonnet Creek, you can do 5 weekdays at Bonnet Creek in Prime season by only renting 2K points. I think you can rent them, but someone who has used Disco can verify. Or you can do 6 days High and 5 days Prime and be covered by your points.

Availability-wise, the earlier you reserve, the better your chance of availability. It may be late for some Prime periods next year.

If you wanted to go to DisneyLAND, you could easily manage two weeklong trips with those points.

There is arbitrage built into every alternative use of poiints, like for airfare. The general consensus is that it is better to use your points for accommodations and cash for other expenses.

The most important thing to know is that if you love the experience you have with Discovery, you don't have to pay the salesmen tens of thousands to get into it permanently. Points contracts are going for about a penny a point, give or take depending on location and bidding wars.

 

[katieg]

OK. Total newbie here so I don't understand the lingo being used.

Please explain: What is "rescind"? Rent from owner? What is arbitrage? Penny per point, where and on what market? How do I even use points for airfare if I wanted to...I don't even see the option?

FYI, if it matters, we are not looking to travel to Disney until December 2016, about 18 months from now and we cannot book until 10 months out per Wyndham. I'm just looking to fill in a trip for the rest of the points so I don't lose them. I'll do something else cheaper for the second trip. Or I wanted to fully use them at Disney via airfare and park tickets but cannot find this option anywhere.

 

[vacationhopeful]

Rescind .. the act of cancelling YOUR purchase and getting your money back .. it is the return policy by the law of the state WHERE you brought.

It is required paperwork in your contract ... VERY FEW DAYS to act ... MUST ACT ASAP.

I own a lot of Wyndham points ... and post regularly here as does Ty1on ....

You can buy exactly what you are cancelling AFTER you learn WHAT it is that YOU brought ... spending any sum of money on Wyndham's Discovery Program is just a SALES HOOK into YOU (like a fishing hook in the mouth of a fish -- so you get reeled and gutted).

If you really think you get a deal ... go to eBay ... type in "Wyndham points timeshare" under the "real estate" catagory .... you can BUY points for LESS than your sunk cost in the Discovery Program and WAY less than a full retail purchase from Wyndham (including the first 10+ years of MFs would be like less buying resale than the original costs of the Wyndham full frieght purchase).

I have taken great friends with me to resorts or sent them using my points and THEY brought from Wyndham directly, too ... smart professionals ... just no common sense trying to PROVE they could do and vacation like me. They spent $25,000+ ... I spent $700 and OWNED better locations for my travel plans and MORE points.

 

[katieg]

How do you buy/sell your timeshares to other people? Aren't they contracted to you only? I am genuinely trying to understand.

I get that our discovery is just a sales hook and am not disappointed by that. We went with it knowing that we were throwing that money away to try something out. I do not see us becoming owners ever.

 

[katieg]

What are MFs and what is full freight purchase?

 

[Ty1on]

What are MFs and what is full freight purchase?

Arbitrage is when a business makes the difference between the value they pay for a commodity and the value they sell it for. In this case, they are giving you less value in airfare than you could get if you used it for room nights, and the difference goes to profit for them.

MF is maintenance fees, what you have to pay every year to "maintain" the unit.

Full Freight means paying the full developer price instead of getting it cheaper resale.

Penny a point is the going rate for a wyndham contract if you buy it resale through EBay, and you should look for a similar price if you find an offering elsewhere. In other words, a 217,000 point contract would cost you about $2,200 on average on EBay.

 

[LannyPC]

I do not see us becoming owners ever.

Then rescind. The instructions should have come with the package you bought. Make sure you follow the directions carefully including the method of delivering the rescission letter (usually certified mail).

After you have rescinded, you can take your time to examine your other options and to study up about TSs.

 

[LannyPC]

OK. Total newbie here so I don't understand the lingo being used.

Please explain:...Rent from owner?

It means exactly that. Someone else who owns a TS week or points package might not be able to (or want to) use his unit so he might rent it out to someone who can (or wants to) use it.

Check out the TUG Marketplace or TUG BBS Last Minute Rental section for owners who are offering their TS for rent. BTW, a lot of weeks are being offered in the Last Minute Rental section for less than what the owner is paying in MFs.

 

[katieg]

Why are you all here? What do you like about timeshares? Hearing all of this rescind and don't use them - clearly someone uses them or they wouldn't be in business?

 

[katieg]

Also I intend to use our discovery points so why would I rescind? I just need some pointers on how to use them effectively and looking for other discovery members. Can someone direct me there?

How do ppl that rent the timeshares they own, manage to turn a profit on it, if they are renting for a penny a point and the market rate per the timeshare company is obviously much higher than that.

 

[Ty1on]

Why are you all here? What do you like about timeshares? Hearing all of this rescind and don't use them - clearly someone uses them or they wouldn't be in business?

I have found the members of this site to religiously love timeshare for the most part. The reason for the knee-jerk rescission advice is that so many of them were bitten by developer prices (buying from the resort salesmen) before they discovered they could have the same experience with much less investment.

No one is trying to run you out of timeshare or even keeping the points you bought. The reason for the urgent and repeated rescission advice is that there is a very limited time to rescind. If you don't want to rescind, don't rescind. Enjoy the use of your discovery points, and when you have a great experience using them, and they sit you down and try to sell you a permanent ownership, buy that too, if you want. But you would do well to keep in the back of your mind during that presentation that 98% of the benefits they are using to sell you on their $20K package at 13%-17% interest can be had for three thousand (Cash) tops.

 

[katieg]

BTW someone asked what we paid. We paid $2,500 for 300,000 points. This sounds like the same market price you are talking about?

 

[katieg]

Yes thanks. I don't plan to purchase anything at all and am quite fine with saying no during the presentation at the end. I do not plan to rescind our current points. I would like to know how to navigate the system and some first time advice about how experienced users best use their points

 

[Ty1on]

Also I intend to use our discovery points so why would I rescind? I just need some pointers on how to use them effectively and looking for other discovery members. Can someone direct me there?

How do ppl that rent the timeshares they own, manage to turn a profit on it, if they are renting for a penny a point and the market rate per the timeshare company is obviously much higher than that.

The penny a point is the general average of BUYING a Wyndham contract on the resale market and is unrelated to rental cost.

Rental rates range from quite lower than a penny a point to a little higher. I would think it is typically less. Renters have some tools available like getting reservations at half the standard point cost, free upgrades, etc. Others may just not be able to use their timeshare that year, and rent it out to cover or offset their maintenance fees. That means it is possible to rent a timeshare for less than the person renting it to you paid in annual fees....they eat the loss, because for them, the choice is get what they can or let it go unused.

Even for the professional renters, the plan is either to use their VIP benefits to be able to make a profit while underselling Wyndham's rental rates, or in the case of highly sought after dates and locations that even Wyndham doesn't have inventory to rent out, simply get as much as they can in profit.

Every post here has been to inform and help you.

 

[Ty1on]

Yes thanks. I don't plan to purchase anything at all and am quite fine with saying no during the presentation at the end. I do not plan to rescind our current points. I would like to know how to navigate the system and some first time advice about how experienced users best use their points

"We just got back from a vacation where we attended a Wyndham presentation for the same purpose of getting discounted tickets for our activities on our trip. This was the first timeshare presentation we've seen that was points based and not weeks based. It is also the first one we've seen that offered a trial membership without full commitment of ownership right off the bat. So we took a leap of faith and purchased a trial "Discovery membership" of 300,000 points that now must be used by 04/2017."

This read to me like you went in intending not to buy anything when you bought the disco package. That's the only reason I wrote what I wrote.

I don't think you got an awful deal. If you can get the week and location you want at the 10 month point, you could have done worse as far as cost. 300K is a good size package to get into just about anywhere you would want to go, too. It's probably enough for a week in hawaii and a few days somewhere close to home on top of that, depending on what unit size your family requires.

For comparison's sake, your points would cost a Club Wyndham Access member about $1,700 in maintenance fees.

 

[Ty1on]

I would like to know how to navigate the system and some first time advice about how experienced users best use their points

This is like saying, "look, I didn't ask you any questions about aeronautics, just tell my which way to move this stick to take off."

 

[raygo123]

That's about right $1668 remember book as soon as you decide where to go! 8 am first day

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[katieg]

Thank you for taking the time to try to clarify things. I am not trying to come off as harsh in any way, just feeling lost and looking for a way to understand better.

One of the biggest turn offs to the timeshare industry to ME, was the sheer change in how I would be looking at our vacations. Hope I can explain that right. We are hotel-on-a-whim people for the most part. We book hotels maybe 3-4 months out after a couple of weeks of research. I like variety and activity in our locations. I do not mind planning but hate strict itineraries and cringe at planning too far in advance or being locked in to something too far in advance. This is my personality. Disney is something I am going into a bit begrudgingly because of how much planning needs to go into it (i/r/t the park, dining and experience especially). But I want to do it for my kids because they want to do it.

Anyway I want to be clear about myself because that colors my perspective and reaction on timeshares. What sold me on a trial was 1) the accommodations appear to be quite a bit nicer than what we have been doing via hotels and 2) I was happy with Bonnet Creek for our Disney trip and the price they gave me for a discovery to get us there was reasonable to me in comparison to the places we were going to book for that trip. So in this case I took the discovery option for that specific resort. And then later found out we are looking to travel to Disney during a low period and got excited that we might be able to take 2 trips with these points instead of just one like I originally thought.

What are Maintenance fees BTW and how do they work?

If you are a timeshare member and you want to cancel your membership can you? Or do you just rent it out to others for the rest of your life?

What are some destinations/resorts typically hard to get into?

 

[Ty1on]

Thank you for taking the time to try to clarify things. I am not trying to come off as harsh in any way, just feeling lost and looking for a way to understand better.

One of the biggest turn offs to the timeshare industry to ME, was the sheer change in how I would be looking at our vacations. Hope I can explain that right. We are hotel-on-a-whim people for the most part. We book hotels maybe 3-4 months out after a couple of weeks of research. I like variety and activity in our locations. I do not mind planning but hate strict itineraries and cringe at planning too far in advance or being locked in to something too far in advance. This is my personality. Disney is something I am going into a bit begrudgingly because of how much planning needs to go into it (i/r/t the park, dining and experience especially). But I want to do it for my kids because they want to do it.

Anyway I want to be clear about myself because that colors my perspective and reaction on timeshares. What sold me on a trial was 1) the accommodations appear to be quite a bit nicer than what we have been doing via hotels and 2) I was happy with Bonnet Creek for our Disney trip and the price they gave me for a discovery to get us there was reasonable to me in comparison to the places we were going to book for that trip. So in this case I took the discovery option for that specific resort. And then later found out we are looking to travel to Disney during a low period and got excited that we might be able to take 2 trips with these points instead of just one like I originally thought.

What are Maintenance fees BTW and how do they work?

If you are a timeshare member and you want to cancel your membership can you? Or do you just rent it out to others for the rest of your life?

What are some destinations/resorts typically hard to get into?

As a whim traveler, you may find that the discovery package is as troublesome for you as owning a timeshare would be.....Getting what you want where you want sometimes requires advanced planning and the vigilance to call at the first moment of the first day a check-in date becomes available to you. I think success can also involve having back-up plans for both the resort choice and the date choice in case those who were able to reserve before your 10 month window opens have gobbled up all the availabilty you were planning on.

fortunately, you want to go to Disneyworld (I presume) which is one of the most overbuilt timeshare destinations to be found....maybe THE most. Because you want prime dates, you still need to get in at the beginning of the 10 month mark, but I think you have a better shot than you would with other locations with competition over fewer units.

As far as Bonnet Creek, what vacationhopeful was trying to say that was that even though you could get 2 weeks for your 2300 offseason, it would be very possible to have rented the same units, same weeks in the 1500-ish range. Of course the rental rates go up in primetime, and so does the points cost.

Maintenance fees are the dues "owners" pay every year to maintain the property:

-Cost of facilities maintenance, furniture and fixture repair or replacement, etc.
-In many (most?) cases, property taxes
-Cost of the folks who manage the resort, take your reservation, check you in, clean the unit, manage the resort activities, perform accounting, anyone you see in a suit or uniform around the resort.
-a "management fee" charged by the managing company of the resort. In Bonnett Creek's case, Wyndham.

All these expenses are budgeted before the beginning of a year. Once the budget is finalized, the total annual budget is divided by either the number of weeks at the resort, or the number of points in a club, and apportioned to the owners that way. Maintenance fees are typically paid monthly, quarterly, or yearly, and sometimes have to be paid fully in advance before reserving.

 

[CCR]

Thank you for taking the time to try to clarify things. I am not trying to come off as harsh in any way, just feeling lost and looking for a way to understand better.

One of the biggest turn offs to the timeshare industry to ME, was the sheer change in how I would be looking at our vacations. Hope I can explain that right. We are hotel-on-a-whim people for the most part. We book hotels maybe 3-4 months out after a couple of weeks of research. I like variety and activity in our locations. I do not mind planning but hate strict itineraries and cringe at planning too far in advance or being locked in to something too far in advance. This is my personality. Disney is something I am going into a bit begrudgingly because of how much planning needs to go into it (i/r/t the park, dining and experience especially). But I want to do it for my kids because they want to do it.

Anyway I want to be clear about myself because that colors my perspective and reaction on timeshares. What sold me on a trial was 1) the accommodations appear to be quite a bit nicer than what we have been doing via hotels and 2) I was happy with Bonnet Creek for our Disney trip and the price they gave me for a discovery to get us there was reasonable to me in comparison to the places we were going to book for that trip. So in this case I took the discovery option for that specific resort. And then later found out we are looking to travel to Disney during a low period and got excited that we might be able to take 2 trips with these points instead of just one like I originally thought.

What are Maintenance fees BTW and how do they work?

If you are a timeshare member and you want to cancel your membership can you? Or do you just rent it out to others for the rest of your life?

What are some destinations/resorts typically hard to get into?

Hi Welcome to Tug!
It sounds like you were offered the trial package. They offered me one in Hawaii a couple years back that I declined. The price you paid for the trial package is the same (probably even more) you'd pay for an actual Wyndham membership that lasts forever if purchased resale. However having only a 3 year commitment is great. I'm guessing you don't have to pay any maintenance fees for those 3 years or do you?

Wyndham has started an Ovation program that can take back contracts at certain resorts that may or may not be around in the future. If Wyndham takes that away members are stuck forever owning that membership and paying annual fees that are the maintenance of keeping it nice, day to day operations. That is if you were to buy a regular ownership.

You can buy memberships on ebay or through resalers or even here on Tug. Before the Ovation program you could buy these memberships for a dollar. Now the price has increased due to Wyndham buying them back from people that want out. Right now many resale Wyndham contracts are going fast because of the new Ovation take back program. The ones that are still selling at a dollar are probably not eligible for the Ovation program or they don't know about it.

I generally think people like Wyndham points and feel like it is a good investment as long as you find a low maintenance fee contract such as a CWA or at a resort that is priced lower.

I studied these quite a bit as I've wanted to buy a Wyndham membership a couple times but decided with me living on the west side of the US that Worldmark would be a better fit.
Using a timeshare takes lots of advance planning so not a good idea if you can't plan your life out 10 months to a year in advance. Our family loves having the bigger nicer rooms now as before I'd get the cheaper room and cram all 5 of us in a room with 2 doubles, or a queen with a pull out sofa. After our trip to Hawaii and a Wyndham tour, we said no more I love my timeshares but beware they are addictive. If I could travel 3 months of the year and afford it I'd buy tons more.

"What are some destinations/resorts typically hard to get into?" During Prime time when kids are out of school it is difficult to get into many places like Hawaii, Hilton Head, West Coast, Ski resorts during ski season. Some places are overbuilt so very easy to get into such as Vegas and Orlando.

 

[famy27]

I am a Wyndham owner, and I like the system overall. We generally use our points for one or two trips to the Wisconsin Dells each year and for one or two exchanges in RCI (which is an external exchange program) into DVC. When going to Disneyworld, we like to stay on property, so we haven't stayed at Bonnet Creek yet, but I do hear great things about it.

Things I like about Wyndham:
1) Units are generally nice and well-maintained. The presidential units at Wyndham Glacier Canyon are just amazing. We stay in them every chance we get.
2) Large number of destinations, including several in reasonable driving distance for me
3) I think the online system is pretty easy to use
4) Maintenance fees are tolerable to me

What I don't like:
1) They will nickel and dime you to death. You may pay extra for housekeeping credits, guest certificates, and transaction fees. You can avoid most of the fees, but you have to plan your trips very carefully. I don't know if Discovery packages are subject to the same fees or not
2) The sales staff at the resorts is ridiculously aggressive. In the Dells, they send you to the sales room to get your parking pass. They won't take no for an answer, so you end up having to be very firm with them, which is not how I enjoy starting my vacation. They will call and stop by your room to try and sell more points to you. They have done this almost every trip. We just got back from Galena, and the cell signal was terrible, so we had to leave the unit phone plugged in. They called at 9:30 on our first morning there. It doesn't bother some people to have to play games to avoid the sales staff, but it really rubs me the wrong way.
3) You can probably get a better deal renting points from a VIP owner.

You asked about using the points for airfare. Even if it's possible to do with your Discovery package, I really discourage you from doing so. It's an absolutely terrible value. You are much better off using your points for Wyndham stays and paying cash for your airfare.

I'm also not sure if you get an RCI account as part of your Discovery package. If you do and are interested in staying onsite at a Disney resort, you would want to set up an ongoing search right a way. Searches are filled in the order they are placed, so if you set up a search now for next December, you'd be pretty far up in line. If you need a unit large than a one-bedroom, you'd probably be better sticking with Bonnet Creek.

What week numbers were you looking at and what size unit did you need?

I am happy to help answer any questions you might have. I am certainly not the most knowledgeable owner about Wyndham, but I can share my experiences, if that is helpful.