First Lawsuit filed against Viking Ship LLCs / PCCs

[ronparise]

I am more than happy to recommend you or Boca to an owner of your preferred brands looking to sell. Why not? You aren't, to my knowledge, planning any Viking ship operation and, based on the presented tales of sales and or rentals, apparently keep fees paid up to your HOA's so you can do business. A perfect set up IMO. I know of owners at my resorts that hold multiple weeks that they regularly rent. I point anyone asking about a sale to them as well.

A healthy HOA is a critical factor in a healthy resort. I know that any HOA buried in non-performing ownerships is fighting a no win battle. At both my resorts there have been periods of time when collections were at or below 50% in the middle of a year. Anyone that recommended a sell off at that point in time may have had a case. Instead I saw the owners that did pay pull together, get independent and reliable management in place, raise money needed to improve the facilities and turn the resorts around in less than 5 years. It wasn't because they took the easy way out and said we'll take back the deed from any owner thats worried and wants out - it was because they enforced the collection rules and made it a desirable ownership again. They also found options for those looking to sell but it was NOT to accept the obligation of future fees onto the backs of those loyal owners who paid to get through those tough times.

One last time. An Association MUST have in place a way for every owner to be able to sell their time if needed. There are always ways to get out of future fees that do not require a PCC, Viking Ship or any other sabotage of the proper procedures called for in the resort documents and State regulations. The Association has no requirement or obligation to accept ownerships into it's name on demand. Once they offer a safe outlet to sell (one that requires no up front fee and that has a proven sales record) finding a buyer is up to the existing owner, not the Association. The Association needs to focus on the reasons they exist. Make sure every owner is treated equally, collect every dollar due, operate and maintain the resort for the owners. There are no sales in that list and there never was meant to be by design.

Owners may need to become involved and push for tough things like rewrites to documents written 20 years ago under far different circumstances. They may need to become creative along with their management to handle off season times and the "new" ways people vacation. They need to work with Developers / on site sales groups to help establish a resale market for THEIR resort as someday they too are likely to need to sell. Far to many want the gravy then simply throwaway the leftovers by leaving them to someone else to discard properly. Take the responsibility of ownership from start to finish as you would any other property and the system works exactly as it was designed to. Despite the active efforts of Developers and others to distort it.

I'm not for having a perpetual, no way out ownership of any timeshare. But if an Association is doing their job correctly there is no need for heavy handed and unworkable edicts such as they MUST accept deeds into their name. There are other options and owners need to work at those not at trying to beat the system. Proponents of easy shortcuts to get out will never get my backing.

I wonder what we are fighting about You have said the same thing I have been arguing for. and that is "An Association MUST have in place a way for every owner to be able to sell their time if needed."

The only think I would add is ....and if our resale dept/broker cant find a buyer, the association will, for a small fee take it back


It may not be the associations job to provide an easy exit strategy, and its certainly not their job to take it back, but if an association is going to be responsible to all their owners, especially the ones that pay and pay on time, then it seems to me that an association ought to do everything they can to keep the cash flowing, ie to collect all the mf that is due. I just think that will be easier if the week is in the hands of the association rather than a pcc

If we can take your example of an association that has only collected 50% of their fees by mid year. I think part of the collections effort at this point would be to inform the deadbeats that there is a resale dept or authorized broker that can arrange for a sale

 

[Carolinian]

Actually, most of those provisions are in state law - the Uniform Condominium Act and the preceding model act. Which one governs a particular resort depends on when it was organized. The model act requires unanimous consent to dissolve a timeshare except under certain circumstances.

They can't sell out, most HOA BOD's have avoided fighting documents creating by the developers to make it next to impossible to close a TS...a small number of others have actually voted in, without the consent of all owners, to have the plan run forever...

The fact that the HOA BOD's through the inactivity of letting illegal condo doc's stay on the books or the activity of putting their members into bondage through timeshare plans that can't end is more evidence of just how at fault they are.

 

[DeniseM]

Other owners at your resort(s) have zero responsibility to subsize your vacations. ZERO.

That's a nice theory but existing owners DO pay the maintenance fee for deadbeats - wait until you get your first maintenance fee bill from the resort. When you see the line item for delinquent maintenance fees added to YOUR bill, are you going to default, too?

I didn't think so... You are going to pay it to keep your ownership, so it's great that you are OK with it...

 

[Ridewithme38]

I disagree Carolinian, everything you've mentioned can be correcting by increasing the amenities and quality of the resort. The only reason those things effected these resorts soo much is because the HOA/BOD's didn't take action to counteract them....I bet you know of some NC Outerbeach resort that did just exactly that...and has actually increased value because of better amenities and better services even with all that going on...

There are lots of things that impact the value of timeshare, many of which are outside the control of the HOA BOD. One obvious one is the state of the overall economy. Another would be major disasters. Katrina impacted the value of NO timeshares for a period in its aftermath.

Another is changes by exchange companies. RCI's mass rentals to the general public create massive competition for individual timeshare owners who want to read their weeks, and indeed for the HOA in renting HOA inventory, and this has damaged its value.

Also changes in exchange programs impact the desirability and thus value of certain timeshare. Chrsytal deHahn, founder of RCI instituted the 45-day window and RCI heavily promoted it, but Wyndham later downgraded and ultimately destroyed it. That change decreased the value of off season weeks, not something that the HOA had any control whatsoever over. Again, in instituting the TPU ''Points Lite'' system, RCI shuffled the deck yet again and degraded the value of some weeks and resorts, and also stuck that right under everyone's nose. Some owners who primarily exchange and had their trading power gored suddenly wanted out alrhough they had been satisfied up until that time.

HOA's have been faced with lots of challenges not of their own making. Some have done better jobs than others in meeting those challenges. HOA's need to build replacement markets, which means introducing their members who exchange to other exchange companies, dual affiliating with II and making them aware of the independent exchange companies. It also means identifying own-to-use markets for their off season weeks. I have given several examples on other threads of resorts in my area, and in the UK doing just that.

 

[Carolinian]

In their spiels, PCC's frequently lie about lots of things, including the true value of timeshares, claiming all of them are worthless. That is why various state attorneys general have gone after them, banning them from operating in their states, imposing civil fines and penalties, and ordering restitution to their victims. These state AG's clearly are not finding what the PCC's do is a ''valuable service''. I would really like to see some of the state AG's up the ante and start prosecuting them criminally.

One example of what these sleazebags do is an older widow who owned three summer OBX weeks, which had value. Even on the bargain basement of eBay, they would have brought a minimum of $2,000 each, and more if sold through other venues. A PCC conned her into paying them ~$3,000 per weeks to take them off of her hands. If she had been dealing with someone honest, she would have had ~$6,000 or more in gain, but by dealing with PCC crooks, she was out of pocket ~$9,000 instead. It is cases like this that cry out for the PCC scammers to be prosecuted and jailed.

I do it every time you ask. I am a Bluegreen specialist and a licensed real estate broker. I buy, rent, sell, broker and trade Bluegreen timeshares. Many organizations, some of whom are PCCs, send me inventory. Actually, in most cases, I do not know their business model for acquiring it because they don't tell me. I think more of them are trade in/travel clubs than PCCs. I am widely known in the industry as the Bluegreen specialist. Just about everyone comes to me eventually when they want to move Bluegreen properties in bulk. That is why I know something about what they do. Most of the time, I get them from individuals. Sometimes, I get them out of LLCs.

When I talk to the owners who are liquidating their timeshares, I cannot describe to you their joy at being relieved of their future obligations. This is how I know that the PCCs are providing a valuable service.

What I am is the market maker for Bluegreen timeshares. I help provide liquidity for people who want to move them. Now that Bluegreen is exercising ROFR, it is becoming much easier to move them. In fact, really cheap inventory is getting much harder to find which means that prices should start increasing.

I would like to help other HOAs by doing for them what I do for Bluegreen. I know it is what the industry needs. But, I cannot do it unless the resorts also do the right things. I am advocating what I believe will help the industry in the long run become healthy.

 

[DeniseM]

Ride - The Sheraton Vistana Resort just went through a complete renovation and the units and resort are top notch now, with great pools and extensive amenities, granite counters and all new furnishings, etc. They are as nice or nicer than any resort in Orlando - and it cost the owners a fortune.

Before the renovations these units sold for $1 on ebay.

Now, they sell for $1 on ebay....

Why didn't your theory work?

I will tell you why - because no matter what the HOA does, Orlando is still overbuilt and when there is more supply than demand, prices will not go up... You can insert Las Vegas, Branson, Williamsburg, and many other places into the same situation.

 

[Carolinian]

Resorts that have pushed back against the problems generated by RCI changes, have done it by developing non-exchange markets for off season weeks, and to a lesser degree by making other exchange options with other exchange companies availible. Several did increase their RCI award status, but that did not have any impact on prices or HOA resales of HOA inventory. The key is developing the markets, and sometimes that is just a matter of sitting down and analyzing things.

I disagree Carolinian, everything you've mentioned can be correcting by increasing the amenities and quality of the resort. The only reason those things effected these resorts soo much is because the HOA/BOD's didn't take action to counteract them....I bet you know of some NC Outerbeach resort that did just exactly that...and has actually increased value because of better amenities and better services even with all that going on...

 

[Ridewithme38]

Ride - The Sheraton Vistana Resort just went through a complete renovation and the units and resort are top notch now, with great pools and extensive amenities.

Before the renovations these units sold for $1 on ebay.

Now, they sell for $1 on ebay....

Why didn't your theory work?

They didn't add new amenities, just cleaned up what was already there..No matter how much you shine a 'poop' it is still a 'poop'....Add an indoor waterpark, movie theater, rock climbing wall, better childrens programs, popcorn machines in each room, etc.....Changing pillow cases and painting walls isn't exactly enough...

Making it stand out and giving people a REASON to go there is the HOA BOD's job, instead of sitting around just making it more cookie cutter. Only when the HOA BOD do their job will you see values go through the roof. Sure it's a hard job, but if they don't want to do the work they shouldn't be on the BOD

 

[Elan]

This should be an easy fix

If only 12 weeks out of the year have value, Then the association should go after the owners of the other 40 weeks and take them back.

Lets assume mf to be $700 a week or $36400 per year per unit (700x 52)
So now the owners of the 12 weeks will have their mf increased to where it belongs... $3000

This is exactly how seasonal resorts should be sold. In my neck of the woods, there are basically two seasons -- summer, and ski season -- both about 15 weeks long. The other 20ish weeks are pretty really undesirable (30 to 45 degrees outside, with no snow). The annual MF's should be divided by 30, and either the resorts get shuttered the other 20 weeks, or a small subset of units could be available as rentals with limited amenities, and the rental proceeds could be rebated to owners.

 

[DeniseM]

They didn't add new amenities, just cleaned up what was already there..No matter how much you shine a 'poop' it is still a 'poop'....Add an indoor waterpark, movie theater, rock climbing wall, better childrens programs, popcorn machines in each room, etc.....Changing pillow cases and painting walls isn't exactly enough...

Making it stand out and giving people a REASON to go there is the HOA BOD's job, instead of sitting around just making it more cookie cutter. Only when the HOA BOD do their job will you see values go through the roof. Sure it's a hard job, but if they don't want to do the work they shouldn't be on the BOD

Ride - you are incorrect - they completely renovated every unit.

Now, as an owner at the resort, you are willing to pay a large special assessment for a movie theater, rock climbing wall, etc., etc. Correct? That's going to cost each owner thousands of dollars....

Can we count on you to pony up $3,000 for a special assessment at SBP? It really needs popcorn machines in every room, too.. :rofl:

 

[Carolinian]

Beach resorts are perhaps the most vulnerable of all. The very thing that makes them super in demand 8-12 weeks per year - the weather and beach - is a major drawback the rest of the year. Few want to visit a blustery, cold, damp beach side resort out of season no matter what features they may choose to offer. If closing isn't an option those weeks are always going to be a very tough sell especially if fes are required to be equal for all ownerships. That is not the HOA's fault it is a poor decision (likely to make money) by the original developer. They need to mitigate it as best they can but no Association can make a seasonal beach resort a 52 week a year high demand destination. Be real.

It really depends on where the beach is and how much timeshare is there. The farther north you are, the more likely your contention is to be true, the farther south the less likely. In the Caribbean, it is more likely to be hurricane season than ''blustery, cold'' that makes for a bit of a low season. Even with good weather yearround, like the Canary Islands, overbuilding can lead to a glut of timeshare and low value. Other attractions nearby also impact value, such as the Isle of Palms beach resort is valuable all year due to the proximity of Charleston. HHI and MB have popular golf seasons outside the beach season, and the Fall fishing season on the OBX is also quite strong up through Thanksgiving. If an area is far enough south that it has a pleasant warm Spring and Fall, even if the ocean is not warm enough to swim, it will have enough demand to meet supply unless the area is overbuilt, although not the huge excess of demand over supply that summer has.

The real factor in low value is supply and demand, and influenced by overbuilding. Timeshare developers go where they can best get the tours in the door to sell units when deciding where to build, not what the dynamics of the subsequent exchange or usage markets will be. The Canary Islands, for example is warm all year, red all year with RCI and II, but vastly overbuilt in timeshare, which means it is low value and hard to sell on the resale market. The Isle of Palms, close to Charleston has only one timeshare which has only four units, so it is the oppposite of the Canary Islands as to supply and demand.

Another example of supply and demand off the beach, is London. When I traded into Sloane Gardens Club through SFX this year, in talking to the manager, I found out that there were only two weeks that members had up for sale, both in the lower season, and both fairly pricey. London has extremely high demand and a miniscule supply

 

[Rent_Share]

This is exactly how seasonal resorts should be sold. In my neck of the woods, there are basically two seasons -- summer, and ski season -- both about 15 weeks long. The other 20ish weeks are pretty really undesirable (30 to 45 degrees outside, with no snow). The annual MF's should be divided by 30, and either the resorts get shuttered the other 20 weeks, or a small subset of units could be available as rentals with limited amenities, and the rental proceeds could be rebated to owners.

But unless that was envisioned when the subdivision documents were recorded, the allocation of maintenance fees cannot be changed without amending those documents which would take a super majority in agreement, you have already defined a simple majority (30 Week owners in the viable seasons) that would experience a 40% increase and would be opposed.

 

[Ridewithme38]

Ride - you are incorrect - they completely renovated every unit.

Now, as an owner at the resort, you are willing to pay a large special assessment for a movie theater, rock climbing wall, etc., etc. Correct? That's going to cost each owner thousands of dollars....

Can we count on you to pony up $3,000 for a special assessment at SBP? It really needs popcorn machines in every room, too.. :rofl:

You have to spend money to make money....My car is worth maybe $1500 right now, it the last year they made the Acura Integra....2001....Now, i can repaint it, shampoo the carpets, replace the seats, get it detailed, but because there are literally thousands on the road, 'polishing the poop' isn't going to make a difference in price....

Now in some circles, this is considered a 'tuner car' so if i make more major changes like new rims, Type R or B20 Motor, Turbo, with built Tranny and custom ECU...I could ask $3,500-$5,000, bringing it to a mid 12 second car...

It's the same with timeshares, paint and body work just brings it back up to where everyone else is...so no real change in value....But larger amenities, things that make it stand out in the pack....Those are the things that bring REAL value...

 

[BocaBum99]

If that's the case then the resort has bigger problems than PCCs! They have a failing business model and should not continue to run as a timeshare. Making Viking Ships illegal will NOT save a failing business.


Hmmm... funny but I don't think that PAYING a PCC to take a timeshare off your hands is an owner saying that "Nothing short of a 100% return of the developer sales price would be enough". These people want out. All they want is a way out that won't hurt their credit.


Yup.



I'm not sure I would go that far but I agree that if there aren't buyers for a property then that's a sign there's a problem with management.



The thing is, though, that unloading an unwanted timeshare to a PCC can often be a GOOD financial decision.

Other owners at your resort(s) have zero responsibility to subsize your vacations. ZERO. If their ownership has no value to them, it has no value to them, period. And they should get rid of the liability however they can. That's a smart financial move.

If they chose to simply not pay rather than transfer to a PCC the end result would be the same. There's no difference between regular individual defaults vs Viking Ship defaults to a resort's financials. This is not a "bail out." That's not what's happening here.

What's happening is that resorts that can't find buyers are FAILING businesses. They are doing something wrong and need to change. Until they change, side businesses like PCCs will scoop up some profits from these failing businesses' inefficiencies.

I see that you and I have like minds on this subject. This thinking will prevail long term simply because it is right and the only way to create a healthy industry. A year ago, everyone was against me and my way of thinking about this problem. Now, you see more turning to this point of view. The last hold outs will be people like John who are vested in what they've pitched and have a need to justify their prior points of view.

I am so convinced that deed backs are the solution that I have been helping some owners do the deedbacks. What I have learned is that many resorts will take them if you arm twist them. They won't say yes to the owner. They keep it secret that they allow it. But, they will say yes to a professional who finds the right person in the organization to take it. It is a much higher number of resorts than I would have expected.

The answer is to just put it in the open that you allow it and put in the infrastructure to deal with it. If you can make it work, you are a viable resort. If you aren't, then go out of business.

No matter how many roadblocks and excuses people make for the resort HOAs, they must know in their heart that I am correct. As more people start making the arguments that you do, that kernal of doubt will grow until they turn.

The only person who will never change is Carolinian. He never changes his mind. He still thinks that going back to the old RCI and eliminating rentals is the answer.

 

[BocaBum99]

In their spiels, PCC's frequently lie about lots of things, including the true value of timeshares, claiming all of them are worthless. That is why various state attorneys general have gone after them, banning them from operating in their states, imposing civil fines and penalties, and ordering restitution to their victims. These state AG's clearly are not finding what the PCC's do is a ''valuable service''. I would really like to see some of the state AG's up the ante and start prosecuting them criminally.

One example of what these sleazebags do is an older widow who owned three summer OBX weeks, which had value. Even on the bargain basement of eBay, they would have brought a minimum of $2,000 each, and more if sold through other venues. A PCC conned her into paying them ~$3,000 per weeks to take them off of her hands. If she had been dealing with someone honest, she would have had ~$6,000 or more in gain, but by dealing with PCC crooks, she was out of pocket ~$9,000 instead. It is cases like this that cry out for the PCC scammers to be prosecuted and jailed.

These guys are as bad as the resort developers themselves. I do not condone such sales pitches and I am very pleased that these guys got fined by the AGs.

I can tell you that I can deliver an honest PCC pitch that is completely ethical and doesn't lie and will result in a sale. In fact, when Bluegreen timeshares were at their low, people paid me to move their timeshares. None of them would even remotely claim I was anything but upfront with them.

In one case, an owner wanted to deedback a timeshare. I told them to call Bluegreen because I knew they were taking them back. He told me they rejected him. I said okay, sign this listing agreement and I'll try to move it for you thinking that deedback was not viable. I got them to take it back and earned my commission. The owner was happy even though they had to pay me. The bottom line is that the PCC business model can be done ethically. I think that it is not because the people they hire to sell the services are the same people who used to sell on the line.

 

[BocaBum99]

This is exactly how seasonal resorts should be sold. In my neck of the woods, there are basically two seasons -- summer, and ski season -- both about 15 weeks long. The other 20ish weeks are pretty really undesirable (30 to 45 degrees outside, with no snow). The annual MF's should be divided by 30, and either the resorts get shuttered the other 20 weeks, or a small subset of units could be available as rentals with limited amenities, and the rental proceeds could be rebated to owners.

The problem is that there is no way for this resort to go out of business. The resort just has to refuse to take deedbacks and slowly take back deeds that go into foreclosure over a 10 year period. Then, those owners who own off season weeks subsidize forever the owners of the peak season weeks that refuse to vote for any changes in the bylaws to make it work for all owners.

 

[VegasBella]

Making it stand out and giving people a REASON to go there is the HOA BOD's job, instead of sitting around just making it more cookie cutter. Only when the HOA BOD do their job will you see values go through the roof. Sure it's a hard job, but if they don't want to do the work they shouldn't be on the BOD

I partially agree with you and partially with Denise. To your point, yes I think timeshares that are struggling (particularly older ones) in overbuilt areas should focus on making themselves more unique. They need to stand apart from the other timeshares, not compete directly.

I don't think they should do that by adding expensive ammenities. I think they can do that easily by simply changing some staff and/or decor, getting more creative. They have to look towards the young people - what's popular? For example, a resort can become actively gay-friendly. They could host a LGBTQ conference at reduced rates in the off season and start making a name for themselves as a gay-friendly destination. Make the concierge desk familiar with local gay-friendly destinations and educate the staff on appropriate language/terminology so they can reflect a positive, accepting vibe.

Another example of a direction a timeshare could go: make it pet-friendly. They can set one building or block of rooms aside for pets. Make one lawn area designated for pets. Offer pet goodie bags (treat and toy) at check-in.

There are lots of ways to go but it would require taking some risks and being creative. And even still, not all timeshares would succeed in attracting new buyers and increasing overall value. But it would definitely work for some.

 

[Elan]

But unless that was envisioned when the subdivision documents were recorded, the allocation of maintenance fees cannot be changed without amending those documents which would take a super majority in agreement, you have already defined a simple majority (30 Week owners in the viable seasons) that would experience a 40% increase and would be opposed.

Right. That's why I said "how seasonal resorts should be sold". I realize it's not a viable solution for existing resorts, but I'm not sure that passing legislation requiring HOA's to take back ownerships is any more viable (not that I think it's a bad idea). At a seasonal resort, the business model should be such that the property can be run off income from the high season(s) only. Everything else should be gravy. If it can't be sold and run that way, then it either should not be built or should go under.

 

[DeniseM]

You have to spend money to make money....My car is worth maybe $1500 right now, it the last year they made the Acura Integra....2001....Now, i can repaint it, shampoo the carpets, replace the seats, get it detailed, but because there are literally thousands on the road, 'polishing the poop' isn't going to make a difference in price....

Now in some circles, this is considered a 'tuner car' so if i make more major changes like new rims, Type R or B20 Motor, Turbo, with built Tranny and custom ECU...I could ask $3,500-$5,000, bringing it to a mid 12 second car...

It's the same with timeshares, paint and body work just brings it back up to where everyone else is...so no real change in value....But larger amenities, things that make it stand out in the pack....Those are the things that bring REAL value...

GREAT! Your special assessment bill is in the mail - It's $3,000 - for the next 3 years....

 

[BocaBum99]

Right. That's why I said "how seasonal resorts should be sold". I realize it's not a viable solution for existing resorts, but I'm not sure that passing legislation requiring HOA's to take back ownerships is any more viable (not that I think it's a bad idea). At a seasonal resort, the business model should be such that the property can be run off income from the high season(s) only. Everything else should be gravy. If it can't be sold and run that way, then it either should not be built or should go under.

When the PCCs are gone, what can an off season week owner do if the resort will not take a deed back? Should their only option be to pay until they die or ruin their credit?

This resort needs to restructure their timeshare plan. In the absence of a market feedback mechanism to do the right thing, they will never do it. High season owners will be subsidized forever by the low season owners.

 

[Ridewithme38]

GREAT! Your special assessment bill is in the mail - It's $3,000 - for the next 3 years....

Oh man! No one's going to buy it with a $3,000 SA and i can't afford to pay it! Do you have the number of an PCC i can use?

 

[BocaBum99]

GREAT! Your special assessment bill is in the mail - It's $3,000 - for the next 3 years....

You got it. The threat of a special assessment is the only way to get owners to vote to do the right thing. This is why deedbacks are so important. It shows exactly why certain actions need to be taken. If the timeshare plan is unfair and low season owners are subsidizing high season owners, then high season owners will always vote to continue the subsidy.

 

[timeos2]

I wonder what we are fighting about You have said the same thing I have been arguing for. and that is "An Association MUST have in place a way for every owner to be able to sell their time if needed."

The only think I would add is ....and if our resale dept/broker cant find a buyer, the association will, for a small fee take it back


It may not be the associations job to provide an easy exit strategy, and its certainly not their job to take it back, but if an association is going to be responsible to all their owners, especially the ones that pay and pay on time, then it seems to me that an association ought to do everything they can to keep the cash flowing, ie to collect all the mf that is due. I just think that will be easier if the week is in the hands of the association rather than a pcc

That bold line is the disagreement. You cannot tie the hands of the HOA by making it a requirement to accept a deed into the Association name.

IF it is in the best interest of the owners to do so they need to have the ability to do so. If it isn't they need the flexibility to say no. They cannot be the guarantee of a sale.

Why should they be? Without taking ownership they already have a claim to the use of the ownership as well as a receivable from the owner of record. They can (and should) rent it to recover as much of the fee as possible. They can even let it sit as delinquent indefinitely and bundle a group of those ownerships together as a RTU offering - again recovering fees without the obligation of deeded ownership and the cost of a foreclosure. They can always decide to offer a deed in leu of future fees if that makes financial sense. They just shouldn't be forced to do it.

If the supplied broker / outlet cannot sell it what options would the Association have for it that they don't already hold without owning it? None.

Who cares if it's a PCC or dead Viking ship that holds the actual title? As long as they can rent or otherwise utilize the use time to raise the annual fee the owners are better off and at zero additional overhead to them.

If we can take your example of an association that has only collected 50% of their fees by mid year. I think part of the collections effort at this point would be to inform the deadbeats that there is a resale dept or authorized broker that can arrange for a sale

Of course they do - why not? But that also means the fees usually have to be current before a transfer can be made. In some cases the fees due may exceed what the broker can obtain. What if this owner can't make up the difference?

The key is Associations must have the ability to look at each case and react appropriately. The minute an option is made mandatory or removed it limits the ability to act in the best interests of the Owners which is the charge to every HOA and Board. As long as the wording "must accept ownerships" - regardless of what may follow (if no sale can be made, if owner has allergies, if the moon is over Miami) - isn't included we are in sync. A critical and primary obligation to the Owners from every Association is a method to sell if needed. But not to guarantee a sale. Never. That is not a option that can be considered by a well run HOA. Accepting it would mean eventual collapse of the resort no matter how well run or how nice it may be. The greedy would eventually kill it regardless by forcing ownerships onto less and less of a base.

 

[DeniseM]

Oh man! No one's going to buy it with a $3,000 SA and i can't afford to pay it! Do you have the number of an PCC i can use?

Exactly - but thanks for the baloney posts....

 

[Rent_Share]

Actually, most of those provisions are in state law - the Uniform Condominium Act and the preceding model act. Which one governs a particular resort depends on when it was organized. The model act requires unanimous consent to dissolve a timeshare except under certain circumstances.

A minor 167 Page Document http://www.bhcspgh.com/babbpropertypro/uca80.pdf

A quick scan says only eminent domain trumps the Act

Can the Bankruptcy Code be used to Trump the 80% Requirement of the Condominium Act ?

As a layman I would see issues with the past practices of the BOD tying their hands

At what point do you stop increasing the fees to the paying owners to create the insolvency. The association may be stuck with the assessments/increase maintenance fees for bad debt already approved

Would the reserves need to be used to try to float a sinking ship

Accepting a fixed amount in maintenance fees to convert a performing ownership to a non performing ownership might not be viewed favorably


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