first american title [Aug '07 THREAD]

[onitsud]

i have found a buyer for a timeshare week and was looking for and closing company with escrow that was reputable . I thought well lets see what redweek recomends. i thouth 300+ recording fees for closing and escrow were resonable i started their online form but there is a spot there that asks who will pay the title insurance fee. I am not going to pay another 300 for title insurance and already agreed to a set price with me covering closing costs. im selling it for 1800 cc included. I dont think that warrants title insurance. anyways the online form will not let you complete without choosing who will pay the insurance fee, i call their toll free number and get "we are open 8-430 monday thru friday. should i just use a different closing company, they sound reputable, but i wish on the page where redweek is promoting them they would state that the title insurance is mandatory to use them for closing/escrow I wouldnt have wasted my time on filling out their forms just to hit a wall and then possibly look like a ass when i tell my buyer want to use a different company. any advice would be welcomed

 

[rickandcindy23]

Use Timeshare Transfer at www.timesharetransfer.com

There is also a TUG member who does closings. His TUG username is ttt. You can find him in Users List above this post. I believe his charges are under $150. I am going to use him for all of my purchases from now on because so many people have been happy with the speed of his services. I don't know if he provides an escrow service.

 

[esk444]

First American is either the largest or second largest title insurance company in America. They are very reputable. I didn't know that they did closing and escrow services too. I used them for my house for the title search and insurance, but used a separate settlement firm. If they are getting into timeshare closing and escrow, it wouldn't surprise me that they would require title insurance.

For a $1,800 purchase, I don't know if title insurance is necessary, so it might be better to use a timeshare closing specialist. For a $25,000 purchase, I would defninitely buy title insurance, as the coverage lasts as long as you own the property.

Speaking of title insurance, I once had a title insurance company as a client and thought that one day I should start my own title insurance company. Before a title insurance company issues a policy, they do a thorough title search which 99.9% of the time will stand up in court, so they never actually have to pay any claims. So you are really paying for a thorough title search, but are being charged money for an illusory insurance policy. I loved that business model, as there was almost no risk to the insurer (unlike just about any other kind of insurance business). Oh well, my business plan didn't pass muster with the wife.

 

[Harry]

Good company for real estate; Timeshares?

You are from this local area. They service Phoenix and do a good job with residential real estate. I do not believe they do timeshares and are probably not expeerienced in that area. You will probably pay them more than you desire anyway. Now, if you are buying locally and they were the original company, then I might say give them a try. In Phoenix, Stuart Title has also done a few timeshares for developers in Scottsdale and Sedona. Check with the resort where you are buying to see who they would recommend. Good luck.

 

[voyager1]

I have sold several timeshares over the past year and have used First American (through the Redweek link) for several of the transactions. Although they were, in some cases, slightly more expensive than some of the other companies they were IN EVERY CASE more thorough, efficient and timely than the other companies. A good example would be that I sold several different Hawaii weeks and they were the only company that consistently had a proceeds check in my hands within 6 to 8 weeks from opening of escrow.

I know that most here love Timeshare Transfer, however I will never use them again. They were chosen by my buyer for 2 expensive Hawaii weeks and it took so long for them to notify me and start the paperwork that the buyer decided the deal must be dead and cancelled (and because of the way their process works no funds were deposited by the buyer). First American requires a minimum $500 deposit at the opening of escrow.

Title insurance is not really necessary for a timeshare, however most buyers seem to insist upon it (which is fine if they're footing the bill). Since you are paying closing costs then you need to decide whether possibly losing the deal is a price you're willing to pay for refusing to offer them title insurance.

 

[johnmfaeth]

Most people do not realize that title insurance really has two components.

The first is a title search. This is usually performed by a local abstract company who is affiliated with the title insurance firm. They check the records at the local recorder of deed and produce what is called an "Abstract of Title". The document sums up any liens and the chain of ownership of the property.

The second is title insurance. It is a financial garantee that anything missed in the title search will be the responsibilty of the title insurer to remedy. In this age of computerind records, the title insurance companies almost never pay out as nothing is missed. They do not guarantee clear title, it may be defective as heck. They merely guarantee that nothing else was overlooked.

A good compromise is contacting a local abtract company (local to the resort) and obtaining a title search. This is usually in the $150 - $200 price range. That is much cheaper that the $300-600 a full title insurance policy would fetch.

Still, I would only do this on a $5,000 plus timeshare. Title searches of timeshares RARELY yield anything and are often meaningless when issues are discovered because they are legal technicalities which do not stop the resort from recognizing one's ownership (frankly the resorts are not that swift with such things).

The story is 100% the opposite for traditional real estate for many reasons. The biggest being, most filers of liens will never detect, nor bother to attach, a lien to the person's timeshare located in a different county, usually state too, than their primary residence. They will, including the tax authorities, go after the primary residence.

Perhaps the biggest title issue I've seen doing closings is where the developer recorded the purchase mortgage but the seller never paid the few dollars to get their mortgage satisfaction recorded. One rarely, but occasionally finds one of these in FL. Again, it is technically a substantial title defect but one with no consequence in that the resorts records show the purchase mortgage as paid so allows the ownership change (and future changes) to go through un-impeded.

PS. It is foolish for any closing company (and also negligent to the seller's interests in my opinion) to not demand an earnest money deposit at the immediate start of the transaction.

 

[dioxide45]

Perhaps the biggest title issue I've seen doing closings is where the developer recorded the purchase mortgage but the seller never paid the few dollars to get their mortgage satisfaction recorded. One rarely, but occasionally finds one of these in FL. Again, it is technically a substantial title defect but one with no consequence in that the resorts records show the purchase mortgage as paid so allows the ownership change (and future changes) to go through un-impeded.

Is it not the duty of the lien holder to record the satisfaction of that lien when it is paid off? This holds true for mortgage transactions in residential realestate, would it not be the same in timeshare realestate?

 

[johnmfaeth]

In this case, the resort issued the satisfaction to the owner and had an arrangement with a local attorney to record it when the owner sent it to him with a payment for recording costs.

Under current Florida Statute 701.04(1) the mortgage holder is indeed required to file the satisfaction of mortgage with 60 days of payment in full. Statute 701.05 further makes it a misdeamenor to continue not fiiling within 30 days of demand to file the satisfaction being received from the owner.

I do not know the date of this change, again it was a lien from the 80's.

Not all small developers do everything within the terms of the law, in this case, the statute of limitations would probably effect the ability to hold the developer at risk for their 20+ year old lack of action.

Luckily the seller had the satisfaction and it was filed correcting the issue.

And in general, you are correct. Satisfactions, especially with conventional real estate, are normally filed directly by the lender with no involvement of the owner (other than satisfying the loan).

But the proverbial "stuff" still happens...

 

[El Codo]

What about risk in the case of death of one of the owners?

I hear what is being said about maybe not needing Title Insurance for low value timeshares.

What about a scenario where one of the owners (spouse, I assume) has died and the surviving spouse wants to sell it?

Is there any risk that other heirs could try to claim it as part of the estate and some how create a cloud on the title that would prevent the person that subsequently bought it from selling it? Could it somehow result in title insurance not being able to be obtained for it in the future, ie if it were to be sold?

Just curious.

 

[theo]

Whoa...

What about a scenario where one of the owners (spouse, I assume) has died and the surviving spouse wants to sell it?

Is there any risk that other heirs could try to claim it as part of the estate and some how create a cloud on the title that would prevent the person that subsequently bought it from selling it? Could it somehow result in title insurance not being able to be obtained for it in the future, ie if it were to be sold?

If the timeshare is / was jointly owned and the surviving spouse wants to (or does) sell after the passing of the other spouse / joint owner, it is absolutely the right and prerogative of the surviving spouse to do with the ownership as he / she sees fit. The issue of any "heirs" is completely irrelevant if / when one of the joint owners is alive and chooses to sell what they own (formerly jointly, but now just individually). In the scenario you describe, any prospective "heirs" have absolutely no standing or say in the matter whatsoever.

 

[Dave H]

If the timeshare is / was jointly owned and the surviving spouse wants to (or does) sell after the passing of the other spouse / joint owner, it is absolutely the right and prerogative of the surviving spouse to do with the ownership as he / she sees fit. The issue of any "heirs" is completely irrelevant if / when one of the joint owners is alive and chooses to sell what they own (formerly jointly, but now just individually). In the scenario you describe, any prospective "heirs" have absolutely no standing or say in the matter whatsoever.

Theo:

YOu are right on the jointly, however, I have seen way to many deeds that just say john and jane doe and do not reference husband and wife or Joint Tenants. In the case of nothing appearing, then it is held as Tenants in Common and the heirs do have a say so.

Also, in that case an estate has to be probated in the state the property is located in.

 

[theo]

Excellent point...

Theo:

YOu are right on the jointly, however, I have seen way to many deeds that just say john and jane doe and do not reference husband and wife or Joint Tenants. In the case of nothing appearing, then it is held as Tenants in Common and the heirs do have a say so.

Also, in that case an estate has to be probated in the state the property is located in.

Thanks, Dave, for providing that overlooked but critically important detail.
It did not occur to me that a husband and wife ownership could / would somehow fail to overtly indicate in a deed that "joint" ownership status.

 

[El Codo]

Thanks for the replies, Theo and Dave

I appreciate the info. I independently also found what you both mention.

In this case it looks very good. The deed mentions husband and wife and joint tenants with right of survivorship. The joint tenant part is even underlined. Can't get any better than that!