Fees for DVC exchanges

[Carl D]

And if you do exchange remember to give any resort that pulls the mandatory fee BS very, very low marks and explain why. Maybe the owners will get tired of having low scores and make the practice stop.

Even though this has been rehashed over and over, I'm still not sure where to start.

John, if you don't like the fee, just don't exchange into DVC. It really is just that simple. It's not brain surgery.

Why would someone pay the fee to stay there, then give low scores? If you are that opposed to the fee, why pay it in the first place to stay there? It just doesn't make sense.

Would you buy something at Wallmart, get it home, then write a complaint letter about the management because you thought the price was too high? Of course not. You would simply not buy it in the first place.

 

[timeos2]

Why defend them? You're only a renter anyway. Like any landlord they do as they want

Even though this has been rehashed over and over, I'm still not sure where to start.

John, if you don't like the fee, just don't exchange into DVC. It really is just that simple. It's not brain surgery.

Why would someone pay the fee to stay there, then give low scores? If you are that opposed to the fee, why pay it in the first place to stay there? It just doesn't make sense.

Would you buy something at Wallmart, get it home, then write a complaint letter about the management because you thought the price was too high? Of course not. You would simply not buy it in the first place.

Carl - If in order to shop at Walmart they demanded a $95 fee after you were at the checkout unless you were a stockholder the correlation would be closer but still not perfect. I understand that some people want to stay at DVC and on occasion get an II based exchange in. Then, as you see very often here on TUG, want to know why they are being charged in addition to the exchange fee. So if they REALLY want it - I don't , so I don't trade in - then they are told "at checkout or in this case check in - pay $95 or leave". Take it if thats what you want and then do the same in return that you just got. Screw them over on the scores. Starting the stay out like that what else would they expect? I did do it to the Manhattan Club when they started pulling that nonsense and, what do you know, others must be too as their scores have dropped. Yahoo! Lets hope everyone told them why so they are sure of what the problem is.

DVC deserves the same. Say you don't like the fees, the smaller than average units, the often so-so cleaning and rate them poorly. Maybe it will change but I doubt it. DVC is above listening to mere exchange guests I'm sure. Meanwhile if you want to use DVC - rent. It's often cheaper and you get what you want rather than the leftovers.

 

[Carl D]

Carl - If in order to shop at Walmart they demanded a $95 fee after you were at the checkout unless you were a stockholder the correlation would be closer but still not perfect.

But, you see, they would have asked for the fee BEFORE you ever entered trhe store.
You have the option of going to the K-Mart down the street.

Say you don't like the fees, the smaller than average units, the often so-so cleaning and rate them poorly. Maybe it will change but I doubt it.

First, the units may not be the largest in the industry, but again, they don't keep that a secret. You can easily find the square footage before you pay the $95 fee.

Second, I will be the first to say DVC housekeeping can be improved upon.
That said, it's far better than most hotels I've stayed at, and I dare to say I stay at more hotels than anyone on this board.
DVC is VERY responsive to housekeeping complaints, as they should be. Guests will naturally expect more in the way of cleanliness simply because it's Disney. I can't argue with that, as I do the same.

 

[Carl D]

Here's a renown idea- Let the market forces work.
If enough exchangers are unhappy enough to not pay the fee, DVC will be less in demand causing the trade power to eventually fall.

 

[Dean]

John, I agree with Carl, simply skip it if you don't like it. Or complain and complain to II about it trying to get it changed. But, I've said it before and i'll say it again, anyone who accepts the exchange knowing about the fee IN ADVANCE and them marks them down in a premeditated fashion simply because of the fee is just plain dishonest. I just went back and did an evaluation to make sure I had all the info to respond. There are NO items that are directly applicable to the fees or even the value of a given exchange. Thus one would have to lie in other areas to give a resort low marks for a reason along these lines. If there are other things that you simply don't like, by all means mark them accurately. If you want to add the comments in the comment boxes, that is absolutely fair as well.

I continue to wonder what falling you you had with DVC given your crusade in this area as a former owner.

 

[timeos2]

I continue to wonder what falling you you had with DVC given your crusade in this area as a former owner.

Dean - While it makes me feel a bit like Carolinian (talking about the good old days) my distaste for Disney dates back to 1994-1997. Back then we could have easily joined you & Carl in the "we love everything Disney" club. When my Dad bought into DVC with the idea that the family would enjoy it and use the annual passes they were giving back then we couldn't have been happier.

But within a year the ugly and all controlling side of the heavy handed Disney showed itself. The passes - they were only good for the named buyer. Period. Not the family, not any exchange guests. The named buyer(s) only. That was never explained at the purchase and I swear they did it after the fact as it is in none of the original paperwork. I was already uncomfortable with the RTU idea vs a deed and this early example of what we saw as changing the rules on a whim started the negative ball rolling. But the passes were only for 5 years anyway so we got names added to the contract and thought we were all set. 2nd year - OK. 3rd year - they are back to the ORIGINAL names only! No one knows "how you got that changed" the previous use period. Now I'm getting steamed. My Dad is furious and makes the trip just to get the passes and swears he'll never set foot on Disney property again. As far as I know he never has. 4th year my brother uses it so I don't know if they got the passes or not - he wouldn't complain either way and has never said. 5th year we're back and fight for nearly a full day to get the last set of passes - they weren't happy and neither were we. The hassle spoiled the whole trip.

Now we're a "standard" owner, no passes and we go to deposit some of our points with RCI. Nope - we're II now. Since when? As of NEXT year. Then why can't we deposit now? Never did get an answer or a deposit. But we did get an RCI exchange into DVC that summer (unlike II RCI used to get good periods and even 2 BR in prime times). But when we get there they want a $95 transportation fee. What? $95 transportation fee or you go home. We called RCI - they know nothing about it. So we pay (as daughter is in tears thinking we aren't going to get to stay) but we protest it to DVC & RCI. Later that year we get a check back from DVC for $95 - no explanation. We also get a letter from RCI stating DVC was not allowed to add fees covered by the annual fees and not also charged to owners. Thank you RCI! Another black mark for II.

1999. We now know that DVC will not allow any deposits to RCI even though they were the promised and official company when my Dad bought. Any other resort would let old owners use what they had-even Wastegate does that - not DVC. Cut off. We had already tried II and found it to be poor compared to RCI. The absolute control, the disregard for the buyer, change simply so they could make more money - it was too much. I had seen the ugly underbelly of Disney and it literally soured me on them forevermore. It helped that as my daughter turned 10 she started to like Busch Gardens and Universal better - we had no need to pay homage to Disney anymore. I don't miss them. Dad sold the points (and made money - at least that worked out)

I laughed last night when Jay Leno had in his opening:
"People were complaining that a gas station outside Disney World is charging $4.50 per gallon of gas. $4.50 per gallon! They felt this was unfair as the ripoff is supposed to start AFTER you get inside Disney World..."

Disney of today is all about money. Nothing else. We've seen it a few times since. It is a shadow of what it once was. I have to say I sure saw it coming.

 

[tomandrobin]

DVC people trading out to other resorts don't pay it. They should as long as DVC is charging it but thats another story.

Actually, Disney does charge DVC members a $95 fee to use thier points at a non-DVC Disney property. Its not a timeshare exchange, but there still is a $95 fee.

 

[timeos2]

Actually, Disney does charge DVC members a $95 fee to use thier points at a non-DVC property. Its not a timeshare exchange, but there still is a $95 fee.

Plus the II fee? Really?

 

[tomandrobin]

Plus the II fee? Really?

No II fee for Disney Hotel stays, just a fee to use your points at Poly, Grand Floridian or any other Disney resort.

 

[tomandrobin]

Disney of today is all about money. Nothing else. We've seen it a few times since. It is a shadow of what it once was. I have to say I sure saw it coming.

Who or which company is not about the money?

We are relatively new owners, about two years. We really enjoy our membership and the perks come with it. Just like when you were members, none of our perks are guaranteed. We knew that when we bought.

I don't think there are many, if any timeshares, that can and will take away or change any perk that they currently receive. Even perks that are written with some of other timeshares have big disclaimers that gives them the right to change the plans or take them away.

 

[Dean]

Dean - While it makes me feel a bit like Carolinian (talking about the good old days) my distaste for Disney dates back to 1994-1997. Back then we could have easily joined you & Carl in the "we love everything Disney" club. When my Dad bought into DVC with the idea that the family would enjoy it and use the annual passes they were giving back then we couldn't have been happier.

But within a year the ugly and all controlling side of the heavy handed Disney showed itself. The passes - they were only good for the named buyer. Period. Not the family, not any exchange guests. The named buyer(s) only. That was never explained at the purchase and I swear they did it after the fact as it is in none of the original paperwork. I was already uncomfortable with the RTU idea vs a deed and this early example of what we saw as changing the rules on a whim started the negative ball rolling. But the passes were only for 5 years anyway so we got names added to the contract and thought we were all set. 2nd year - OK. 3rd year - they are back to the ORIGINAL names only! No one knows "how you got that changed" the previous use period. Now I'm getting steamed. My Dad is furious and makes the trip just to get the passes and swears he'll never set foot on Disney property again. As far as I know he never has. 4th year my brother uses it so I don't know if they got the passes or not - he wouldn't complain either way and has never said. 5th year we're back and fight for nearly a full day to get the last set of passes - they weren't happy and neither were we. The hassle spoiled the whole trip.

Now we're a "standard" owner, no passes and we go to deposit some of our points with RCI. Nope - we're II now. Since when? As of NEXT year. Then why can't we deposit now? Never did get an answer or a deposit. But we did get an RCI exchange into DVC that summer (unlike II RCI used to get good periods and even 2 BR in prime times). But when we get there they want a $95 transportation fee. What? $95 transportation fee or you go home. We called RCI - they know nothing about it. So we pay (as daughter is in tears thinking we aren't going to get to stay) but we protest it to DVC & RCI. Later that year we get a check back from DVC for $95 - no explanation. We also get a letter from RCI stating DVC was not allowed to add fees covered by the annual fees and not also charged to owners. Thank you RCI! Another black mark for II.

1999. We now know that DVC will not allow any deposits to RCI even though they were the promised and official company when my Dad bought. Any other resort would let old owners use what they had-even Wastegate does that - not DVC. Cut off. We had already tried II and found it to be poor compared to RCI. The absolute control, the disregard for the buyer, change simply so they could make more money - it was too much. I had seen the ugly underbelly of Disney and it literally soured me on them forevermore. It helped that as my daughter turned 10 she started to like Busch Gardens and Universal better - we had no need to pay homage to Disney anymore. I don't miss them. Dad sold the points (and made money - at least that worked out)

I laughed last night when Jay Leno had in his opening:
"People were complaining that a gas station outside Disney World is charging $4.50 per gallon of gas. $4.50 per gallon! They felt this was unfair as the ripoff is supposed to start AFTER you get inside Disney World..."

Disney of today is all about money. Nothing else. We've seen it a few times since. It is a shadow of what it once was. I have to say I sure saw it coming.

John, DVC was my first timeshare purchase and I too was naive at that point. I know that DVC knew that they were changing to RCI as early as 1994 because they told me such. I have several versions of the POS as early as 1993 and all of them say that the limited park passes are good for the owners and their guests but not renters or exchangers. And I know that I had many family and friends use my points at OKW and get the free park passes when we were not along on the trip. I know that the passes were extended to include MGM though the initial indication was they would not be. And the passes were NOT extended to AKV when they initially indicated they likely would. They also stated in print that the 2000 points borrowed to 1999 would not qualify for free passes, they later changed this stance because the POS would not support that position. Of course one had to stay at OKW to get the passes but we road that for all it was worth. As for why your experience was different than the written rules, I obviously can't say.

If you look at me as a "believer" when it comes to DVC or RCI points vs weeks, you would be sorely mistaken. As any of those that frequent both DIS or dvctalk and TUG can tell you in regards to DVC, that is simply not the case. I'm a realist and honest to the point where many there likely think I've far too negative.

There's no doubt that DVC needs to be in control, that was true when they were with RCI and true now. But I find it interesting how one could prefer the deposit first method over the request first one that went in place with II even if they preferred RCI otherwise. The new system was and is better for almost all DVC members though it does leave a lot on the table and a lot to be desired.

I do appreciate the time and effort for you to post your story and it only confirms my suspicions that you are not an objective participant in these discussions regarding DVC but then again many DVC members are not either. I'd like to think I am, I do my best, but only God knows for certain.

DVC is a corporate member of II as they were RCI. The DVC member can't even join II, or RCI previously, directly even if they wanted. Thus if they changed exchange companies it only makes sense you'd have no options past a pending deposit.

 

[Carl D]

But within a year the ugly and all controlling side of the heavy handed Disney showed itself. The passes - they were only good for the named buyer. Period. Not the family, not any exchange guests. The named buyer(s) only. That was never explained at the purchase and I swear they did it after the fact as it is in none of the original paperwork. I was already uncomfortable with the RTU idea vs a deed and this early example of what we saw as changing the rules on a whim started the negative ball rolling. But the passes were only for 5 years anyway so we got names added to the contract and thought we were all set. 2nd year - OK. 3rd year - they are back to the ORIGINAL names only! No one knows "how you got that changed" the previous use period. Now I'm getting steamed. My Dad is furious and makes the trip just to get the passes and swears he'll never set foot on Disney property again. As far as I know he never has. 4th year my brother uses it so I don't know if they got the passes or not - he wouldn't complain either way and has never said. 5th year we're back and fight for nearly a full day to get the last set of passes - they weren't happy and neither were we. The hassle spoiled the whole trip.

Interesting, buy I'm wondering just who bought DVC? You or your father??
It also seems as though your main reason for purchasing was the free passes???

I laughed last night when Jay Leno had in his opening:
"People were complaining that a gas station outside Disney World is charging $4.50 per gallon of gas. $4.50 per gallon! They felt this was unfair as the ripoff is supposed to start AFTER you get inside Disney World..."

Ironically, gas prices are cheaper on Disney property. Strange but true, and I have no idea why.

 

[Carl D]

I do appreciate the time and effort for you to post your story and it only confirms my suspicions that you are not an objective participant in these discussions regarding DVC but then again many DVC members are not either. I'd like to think I am, I do my best, but only God knows for certain.

Yes, Dean calls it as he sees it.
I admit to drinking the Kool-Aid now and again, but Dean is a straight shooter... although I disagree with him much of the time.

 

[timeos2]

Interesting, buy I'm wondering just who bought DVC? You or your father??
It also seems as though your main reason for purchasing was the free passes???

No - but they were the big plus in those days. Remember others were handing out $100 or more in 1992/3 dollars and Disney was giving an Ice Cream Sundae. as the tour "gift". Plus the difference in cost between a non-DVC resort was made much less attractive when free passes were in the mix for DVC. Even then that was a few hundred dollars to offset fees.

We never complained about the end of the passes although they had hinted at the sale time that they would most likely be continued. We understood from the start there was a time limit. But the silly restrictions were never discussed nor where they in the docs. That we complained about - bitterly.

 

[Carl D]

No - but they were the big plus in those days. Remember others were handing out $100 or more in 1992/3 dollars and Disney was giving an Ice Cream Sundae. as the tour "gift". Plus the difference in cost between a non-DVC resort was made much less attractive when free passes were in the mix for DVC. Even then that was a few hundred dollars to offset fees.

We never complained about the end of the passes although they had hinted at the sale time that they would most likely be continued. We understood from the start there was a time limit. But the silly restrictions were never discussed nor where they in the docs. That we complained about - bitterly.

Moral of the story:

-- Never believe what a salesman says, let alone what he hints at.

-- Don't buy a timeshare because you are counting on a perk that is included at the time.

John, from what I read you are way too smart to fall into the above trap. Perhaps that was in your more naive days, and if so you should really chalk the whole DVC thing up to a learning experience, and let the hostillity go...

 

[timeos2]

No II fee for Disney Hotel stays, just a fee to use your points at Poly, Grand Floridian or any other Disney resort.

Not the same thing then. I have no problem with that fee as you are stepping outside the timeshare/exchange process and crossing over into unrelated hotel time. They can charge what they want for that.

 

[timeos2]

Everyday is a new lesson

Moral of the story:

-- Never believe what a salesman says, let alone what he hints at.

-- Don't buy a timeshare because you are counting on a perk that is included at the time.

John, from what I read you are way too smart to fall into the above trap. Perhaps that was in your more naive days, and if so you should really chalk the whole DVC thing up to a learning experience, and let the hostillity go...

Carl -

Naive? Heavens yes! That is back in 1992-94. No TUG, no Internet groups like today. I was definitely in learning mode then. While I had already figured out that resale meant savings it wasn't easy to track down and certainly no peer support like today.

In fact between the issues with DVC, the explosion of Internet groups, Timesharing Today and then my extremely informative "training" about all things developer and timeshare framed my opinions now. As I became a Board member and ended up fighting a developer for control of a resort (along with all the owner Board members and an extremely supportive owner base) I have learned first hand far more than I ever wanted to know about the industry.

It is that body of largely negative experience with the operational and control sides of timeshare, not the very enjoyable actual use, that, for better or worse, makes me jump in whenever I see misrepresentations or statements of "fact" regarding timeshare that simply don't hold up in the real world. There is nothing like hands on experience to teach you exactly how things work.

 

[ralphd]

It is that body of largely negative experience with the operational and control sides of timeshare, not the very enjoyable actual use, that, for better or worse, makes me jump in whenever I see misrepresentations or statements of "fact" regarding timeshare that simply don't hold up in the real world. There is nothing like hands on experience to teach you exactly how things work.

Is the glass half empty or half full? Your view always seems to be 'half empty'. But what can you expect of a David Siegel supporter.

 

[timeos2]

No love for the King and his court of weasels

But what can you expect of a David Siegel supporter.

Supporter? While I do own a Wastegate it dates back to that same 1993 period, purchased resale even then. It is the one and only timeshare purchase I would not make again if I had it to do over even though the actual resort has been OK. I would advise, and have, everyone to stay away from Wastegate and King David at every opportunity. The absolute bottom feeder of timesharing sales.

1/2 empty? Not really but I see little point in jumping in to say "right on" when someone says how great timesharing is as an owner at a good resort, in the right multi-resort system or as an exchange guest. It's supposed to be that and most of the time that side - the use - not only meets but often exceeds your expectations. Its the behind the scenes problems - look at Wastegate - that can take an otherwise great product right down the tubes. Or the ever increasing hassles of the big exchange groups. Avoid those by using what you buy and your ownership can be just peachy. In fact the cup can be overflowing.

 

[AwayWeGo]

Sella-Sella-Sella -- Then Buya-Buya-Buya. (Or Vice Versa.)

I do own a Wastegate it dates back to that same 1993 period, purchased resale even then. It is the one and only timeshare purchase I would not make again if I had it to do over even though the actual resort has been OK.

A savvy timeshare maven ought to be able to sell off an unloved WestGate unit & use the proceeds to buy an equivalent eBay CP2 -- or maybe even another CP1 via eBay.

Shucks, somebody (not me) on the CP1 FSBO list is offering a CP1 Floating Emerald 3BR lock-off ( -- they're all floating 3BR lock-offs over there at CP1 -- ) for only $1,999. Maybe they'd take even less -- you never know.

The other way round works just as well -- buy 1st & then sell. Either way upgrades the portfolio, no ?

It might even be possible to come out ahead via that kind of timeshare wheeling & dealing, who knows ?

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​

 

[sfwilshire]

It also seems as though your main reason for purchasing was the free passes???

I'm sure you didn't mean to suggest there's anything wrong with that. I was considering the DVC at the time the passes were included. They changed that before I pulled the trigger and that was enough to make me decide it wasn't for me.

As for the rating, I don't see any problem with rating any resort you stay in however you like for whatever reasons. Even if all of us here at TUG took the same stance and gave them a poor score, the demand would be so high that it would never make a difference. That wouldn't be true of a lot of properties, but Disney could care less. Many of us would still be eager to exchange in, no matter how low their scores were.

Sheila

 

[Carl D]

I'm sure you didn't mean to suggest there's anything wrong with that. I was considering the DVC at the time the passes were included. They changed that before I pulled the trigger and that was enough to make me decide it wasn't for me.

No, there's nothing "wrong" with it, but unless DVC put in writing that we would have free passes for life, it wouldn't be my determining factor to purchase.

As for the rating, I don't see any problem with rating any resort you stay in however you like for whatever reasons. Even if all of us here at TUG took the same stance and gave them a poor score, the demand would be so high that it would never make a difference. That wouldn't be true of a lot of properties, but Disney could care less. Many of us would still be eager to exchange in, no matter how low their scores were.

Well I guess we disagree on this point. I fully agree with scoring a resort as you see it, and also putting down other opinions in the remarks section. I do not believe it's appropriate to to give a "0" in customer service (or whatever the category is) to show a displeasure of the fee. Instead maybe you should score it correctly, then write a strongly worded letter to DVC and send a copy to II. That would probably accomplish a lot more.

 

[KevGuy]

Hey, I drink the DVC Koolaid every chance I get lmao!! :whoopie:

Sorry for the sad attempt at humor, but this thread has gotten very silly, it's time to lighten up everyone. To each their own is my opinion, people will do what they want regardless of the long walls of text posted here. It certainly isn't going to change anyone's opinion IMO. Can't we all move on lol. :ignore: