Feedback please! (bad rental?)

[Happytravels]

We could start a whole new thread about letting friends or family members use your unit. You mentioned that they were paying you for it... however, I've invited family members on our timeshare trips before, and it's amazing how wishy-washy the whole process works. Because usually we don't ask them to pay... it means nothing for them to back out at the last minute... or leave your plans completely up in the air because they go back and forth on their schedule plans. I feel that working with friends and family through the process requires a lot of patience and communication!

Oh my I couldn't have said it any better..... .... they are sooooooooooo wishey washey.. ...yes then no :annoyed: and well maybe or if..etc...

 

[foreverloves]

The Seller didn't get in touch with me for three days, and didn't tell me in the first email that her father died.

She does not corner the market on sad stories.

The whole reason I was trying to move my week into July is because my father has metastatic prostate cancer. He is starting radiation next week and won't be able to make the trip to Hilton Head with us at the end of August. I have a 2 year old daughter who might never know her grandfather. I could go into 100 different scenarios about how sad that is, but I won't.

Suffice to say, I have a huge amount of sympathy for someone who loses their father.

The other point to consider is that I did not initially realize that the person (owner) was on Tug. If she wants to post the emails, you will see that the subject line was "Red Week Rentals" (the standard message it puts in when you answer an ad on redweek). Because she answered me on redweek. When Denise asked me who this person was on Tug, I could not even remember, because she had contacted me through redweek. I actually thought it was someone who might have been just listing rentals on redweek and not really a Tug member. So, I take the hit on the chin for that one.

Having never rented before, and getting no response from the seller, incorrect check-in information, etc...yeah. I panicked. Who wouldn't? I had just sent $400 to a person who isn't even verified on Paypal! YIKES!

I offered to split her verified loss with her AND pay her paypal fees, but she refused this. She brought this garbage talk of lawyers, which just totally threw me for a loop. Never said word one about lawyers, but okay then...

I've been accused of not knowing about how rentals work (in the absence of agreements; apparently there's this pool of knowledge about how rentals just...'work'). But this person has been on TUG far longer than me and even told me that she's rented other units before. I pray it was with full knowledge to her renters!

Now we're forced to send this up to the 'powers that be', and if that isn't successful, then we'll have to challenge it with our credit card, and then go from there, because the seller simply wants to believe that she did every single thing right and even in the absence of telling us ahead of time that the money we were sending her would be retained, should be entitled to keep it.

I have truly no idea what this person rented the unit for. I asked for that information and I didn't get it.

My offer stands: I will SPLIT the substantiated loss with the seller and pay the paypal fees associated with the transaction.

If I remember correctly, the seller made some claim to have lost $200 on the transaction. So, if my math serves me correctly, that would mean a refund of slightly less than $300. Seller takes a hit, Jennifer takes a hit. I give the seller $100 bux for essentially nothing, and Seller takes hit for not disclosing to us that she was keeping the cash we sent her, being out of touch, agreeing to refund us, and then backing out.

Owners: you have GOT to tell your renters what you are doing with their cash! You have to provide agreements (hell, even in EMAIL! Just TELL the renter!) that any money they send is non-refundable. You have to give accurate resort confirmations. You can't assume that they somehow 'know' that you're keeping all of their money no matter what! You can't begin a transaction and, if something happens to the renter, just up and walk away with the cash. This owner never - and I mean NEVER!!! - told us that the money we sent her wasn't refundable; not in email, not on the phone, and not in any agreement. We are being held responsible for something we didn't even know.

And I'm not being nitpicky about 'signing an agreement'. Seriously. I couldn't produce for you ONE email where she even WROTE that she was keeping anything, because it was never said. Ever. If I ever heard this ANYWHERE from her, at least I would have known when I called her cell phone on that Friday. I would have known that I was kissing that cash goodbye. But I didn't.

Again; I offered to split this with her and she didn't bite, but the offer stands. I don't think there's anything more fair than that. You take your lumps, I take mine.

 

[ace2000]

Jennifer, you paid a deposit and backed out of the deal. You should be accepting any offer from the owner, instead of trying to set the terms yourself. Also, can you share the basis of your dispute with Paypal? What reason(s) did you provide?

Second, again I see that you have latched on to several things Denise has said on this thread. That's been the point I've been trying to make the whole time from the start of this thread... please everyone, stop giving her a guilt-free out on this one!

 

[foreverloves]

Jennifer, you paid a deposit and backed out of the deal. You should be accepting any offer from the owner, instead of trying to set the terms yourself. Also, can you share the basis of your dispute with Paypal? What reason(s) did you provide?

Second, again I see that you have latched on to several things Denise has said on this thread. That's been the point I've been trying to make the whole time from the start of this thread... please everyone, stop giving her a guilt-free out on this one!

Why should I accept any offer from the seller? Now seriously - I don't follow this at all. The owner had responsibilities and she didn't follow them. We were misled about what she did with our money. As I've stated a hundred times, I was a leasing manager for a highrise apartment complex. On EVERY DOCUMENT we provided to a prospective renter, there was very clear language that said (something like) "If you fail to rent here, the Management Company will retain your money as liquidated damages." We HAD to tell people this or else we were not entitled to keep anything.

Why are timeshare landlords excluded from this provision?

Guilt free? I apologized to this owner...hmmm. At least three times. Probably more, but I'll say three to be safe. Her response was "okay fine, we'll let paypal do their job'. She later reneged on this.

Here's the funny part. Let's just say, for the sake of this discussion, that this seller did everything right. In fact, let's just say I'm a total liar and I did, in fact, sign - heck let's say NOTARIZE - a document, as well as acknowledge numerous times in email that I fully understood that I was going to lose my money no matter what; that everything was non-refundable.

Why would I be here?
Why would I have communicated with this seller for DAYS and DAYS?
Why would I have to escalate this?

Seriously. Do you know ANYONE that is that bored? Cause I don't. And I'm certainly NOT that bored.

In fact, why did I even bother to reach out to the owner? Why did I call her, send emails, etc? I should have known I was kissing my money goodbye. I should have dropped off the face of the planet and just said "Oh well; I made a 400 dollar mistake."

I called her and emailed her and all of that because I was completely under the impression, based upon everything she had said and written, that since the reservation was NEVER conveyed to us and no confirmation was ever sent, we would have our funds returned to us. This is exactly how it is in the 'real world' of renting if you don't have those little 'retained for liquidated damages' clause in there.

And PS: This seller actually agreed to that, until she decided that she didn't. And then we start talking about $2K for attorneys, and giving me an attorney's name in Washington DC...yeah.

No. The owner isn't entitled to keep our funds without informing us. It *might* even be different if the owner hadn't re-rented, but she had. The terms of that rental are undisclosed. For all I know, this owner rented it for twice what she charged me - AND is keeping my $400. I'm not saying I really believe that, but I just don't know.

I just felt like splitting the loss was the fair thing to do because we both lose a llittle instead of one of us losing a lot. But that's just me.

 

[timeflies]

It is obvious that this person does not get it at all!! If I had paid a deposit within 30 days of the checkin date and then had to cancel, I would not expect the deposit back. Anybody with any sense would understand that to be true.

 

[ace2000]

Why should I accept any offer from the seller? Now seriously - I don't follow this at all. The owner had responsibilities and she didn't follow them.

The owner did fine. I'm not going to nitpick what the owner did and monday quarterback this thing like some of the others. With all of your fluff that you keep providing in all of your long-winded posts... this comes down to one concept:

What does a deposit mean? I guess some feel that it only guarantees the rentee the week (as you feel), while others state it provides protection to the renter. Guess everyone can make up their own mind.

It also my claim that even if this owner provided details about losing the deposit... you would have still found a way to try and get your money back based on a scam theory or the fact that she wasn't Paypal 'verified'.

Did you miss my question about Paypal (what was the basis of your dispute)? Yumdrey, can you provide those details?

 

[ace2000]

It is obvious that this person does not get it at all!! If I had paid a deposit within 30 days of the checkin date and then had to cancel, I would not expect the deposit back. Anybody with any sense would understand that to be true.

Nope, that's not the way it is at all. There are some here blaming yumdrey for this mess because she didn't email her terms to the rentee from the beginning.

 

[heathpack]

Jennifer,

You are really being unreasonable.

When you posted here you very well knew owner was a TUGGER (it is in your first post). So posting here was likely going to be read by the rentor and you should consider that implying he/she was a scammer would likely to result in bad feelings. You created that scenario.

NOW you know TUGGER is not a scammer and still you will not back down on your insistence of proof of the rental fee, which she does not want to send you for legitimate reasons of privacy concerns for her new rentee.

Your father is sick with cancer and you are trying to travel with him in TS accommodation without considering cancellation policy/refundabilty of deposit? I am sorry for your father's illness, but you are being so unkind in all of this that it is hard for me to generate genuine sympathy for you. My brother was ill with cancer for 10 years before he passed away, and for any trip we took during that time and overwhelming concern when we booked was "what is the cancellation policy in case we can't go?". That indeed happened several times, but we always knew with an ill family member there would be a chance the trip would need to be cancelled, maybe at the last minute. We were totally prepared that this might one day incur some sort of financial penalty.

You have already implied your rentor was a scammer, now you don't believe what she rented to week for, and the only terms you will consider are the ones YOU think are reasonable.

Honestly, if I were Yumdrey, I'd have my hackles up as well. I'd probably just give you your money back to get rid of you. You are unwilling/able to see anyone else's perspective and I'd consider $200 or $300 a small price to pay to wash my hands of you.

H

 

[rickandcindy23]

What does a deposit mean? I guess some feel that it only guarantees the rentee the week (as you feel), while others state it provides protection to the renter. Guess everyone can make up their own mind.

There are email conversations that can be used in court to determine what the deposit was all about. I would love to see those emails, but I don't think anyone should post their emails here, so we shouldn't be privy to those.

I just know Jennifer said she never saw a confirmation with the correct date, and that turned out to be a lie. That makes us all look at this very differently. And she is determined to convince us she is right. I already made up my mind about it, based on that one lie from the beginning. I would have tried to find a new renter for Yumdrey, if it were me, and I wouldn't have had a problem doing it. Hilton Head is prime, and we had so many requests for our Myrtle Beach weeks.

Both sides have sad stories, but as Jennifer said, we all have sad stories.

 

[dmbrand]

I'm probably swimming against the tide on this one....

In this particular situation, if I had been the renter, I would have given back the deposit. Whether I legally had to or not probably wouldn’t have entered the equation. The timing of the events and the nature of the cancellation would have prevailed. Life just happens; it would be difficult for me to keep someone’s money because of their misfortune within 24 hours of making a commitment.

Paying any fees incurred would be a good faith token on the part of the renter. They both own at the resort, they may have had an opportunity to help each other out in the future; best not to burn any bridges (this may be moot point now).

Everything about this transaction seems too messy to call it anything but a learning experience for both parties. Hopefully they can find a compromise that is suitable to both. I wouldn’t have a problem renting to or from either one, they are both intelligent people who will probably never transact without an agreement again.

 

[SueDonJ]

In this particular situation, if I had been the renter, I would have given back the deposit. Whether I legally had to or not probably wouldn’t have entered the equation. The timing of the events and the nature of the cancellation would have prevailed. Life just happens; it would be difficult for me to keep someone’s money because of their misfortune within 24 hours of making a commitment.

Paying any fees incurred would be a good faith token on the part of the renter. They both own at the resort, they may have had an opportunity to help each other out in the future; best not to burn any bridges (this may be moot point now).

Everything about this transaction seems too messy to call it anything but a learning experience for both parties. Hopefully they can find a compromise that is suitable to both. I wouldn’t have a problem renting to or from either one, they are both intelligent people who will probably never transact without an agreement again.

You might be against the tide but you're not alone, and I like that you've managed to bring some level of compromise into the equation without disparaging either party.

 

[ampaholic]

You might be against the tide but you're not alone, and I like that you've managed to bring some level of compromise into the equation without disparaging either party.

Those from this new "compromise" school fail to note that Yumdrey has already offered a suitable compromise: she offered to return nearly half of the deposit - just deducting for her actual loss on the re-rent instead of keeping the entire $400 as liquidated damages as most here think she in entitled to do.

Foreverloves won't settle for the $178 refund offered but wants at least $300 refunded - and is using a lie to PayPal to create leverage to try to enforce her will by getting a full refund.

Foreverloves has to have lied to PayPal for them to even consider a refund.

Imagine the truth: I paid 40% down for something then decided I didn't want to pay the other 60% as agreed so I backed out of the deal - please refund the 40% that I sent to the other party - because I want it back.

In short there is no legitimate reason for PayPal to refund - sad sad sad.

 

[SueDonJ]

Those from this new "compromise" school fail to note that Yumdrey has already offered a suitable compromise: she offered to return nearly half of the deposit - just deducting for her actual loss on the re-rent instead of keeping the entire $400 as liquidated damages as most here think she in entitled to do.

Foreverloves won't settle for the $178 refund offered but wants at least $300 refunded - and is using a lie to PayPal to create leverage to try to enforce her will by getting a full refund.

Foreverloves has to have lied to PayPal for them to even consider a refund.

Imagine the truth: I paid 40% down for something then decided I didn't want to pay the other 60% as agreed so I backed out of the deal - please refund the 40% that I sent to the other party - because I want it back.

In short there is no legitimate reason for PayPal to refund - sad sad sad.

The way I see it both parties have fairly legitimate reasons for the arguments they're making, and lack of communication is the biggest reason for this particular mess. There wasn't a written contract between them, and it appears that they each understood differently the unspoken terms of their initial agreement. Apparently the possibility of a language barrier might exist in this situation, but even without that both parties suffered experiences almost immediately that made it difficult to pin down the exact terms of the rental.

Saying that all TUGgers should know that timeshare rental deposits are always non-refundable doesn't make any sense to me - what, is there a set of Rental Commandments that's supposed to be absorbed by osmosis? I read TUG religiously and all I've learned about rentals is that not everybody uses a contract, and those who do don't all use the same one with the exact same strict terms.

I would think that the decent thing for a "landlord" to do when someone has to cancel and the week is re-rented is to refund the first deposit, especially if the first renter contacts the "landlord" almost immediately after reaching the verbal agreement but the "landlord" doesn't respond. Sure, if the "landlord" ends up paying OOP for anything above what the second renter is paying, then the first renter should cover those fees. But in order to do that fairly, the "landlord" has to be willing to divulge the second rental's terms.

Reading all the posts in this thread from those of you who act as landlords in a good number of timeshare rental transactions brings up a topic that I've always been curious about but have never been brave enough to ask point-blank, and attempts to bring it up in a roundabout way have always been ignored. So here goes. You talk about how it costs you paypal/ad/etc fees, how you invest a lot of time into your rentals ... Bruce even asked me upthread, "do you work for free?" Obviously you're making money at this, or maybe not "obviously" but IMO it would be ridiculous to put all this time into rental ventures if you weren't making money.

My question is, do your timeshare contracts contain any type of stipulation that prevents rentals which could constitute "a commercial activity?" (Mine do.) If not, great! But if so, how are you justifying your actions, and how is it that you all castigate timeshare developers for skirting to within an inch the rules while you're doing the exact same thing? And if so again, how can you expect a Court to side with your unspoken Rental Commandments when by doing so, they'd be effectively rubber-stamping actions against the contracts?

Please don't kill me.

 

[DeniseM]

My question is, do your timeshare contracts contain any type of stipulation that prevents rentals which could constitute "a commercial activity?" (Mine do.)

Owners have the right to rent their own timeshares - I think you are misinterpreting the rules.

 

[NWL]

....There are some here blaming yumdrey for this mess because she didn't email her terms to the rentee from the beginning.

The OP should not have gone through with the transaction without knowing all of the terms of the agreement. She sent the deposit anyway. Bad decision on her part. Yumdrey is not to blame for the OP's lack of due diligence.

And really, to start throwing out more excuses at this point in time (parental illness) to explain away her mistake is just sad.

Cheers!

 

[ampaholic]

-snip-
Saying that all TUGgers should know that timeshare rental deposits are always non-refundable doesn't make any sense to me - what, is there a set of Rental Commandments that's supposed to be absorbed by osmosis?
-snip-

I would think that the decent thing for a "landlord" to do when someone has to cancel and the week is re-rented is to refund the first deposit, especially if the first renter contacts the "landlord" almost immediately after reaching the verbal agreement but the "landlord" doesn't respond. Sure, if the "landlord" ends up paying OOP for anything above what the second renter is paying, then the first renter should cover those fees. But in order to do that fairly, the "landlord" has to be willing to divulge the second rental's terms.

Name me one (just one) situation with "other" things out there where you would get your deposit back when you "just changed my mind and want to cancel"?

Just one...

My question is, do your timeshare contracts contain any type of stipulation that prevents rentals which could constitute "a commercial activity?" (Mine do.) If not, great! But if so, how are you justifying your actions, and how is it that you all castigate timeshare developers for skirting to within an inch the rules while you're doing the exact same thing? And if so again, how can you expect a Court to side with your unspoken Rental Commandments when by doing so, they'd be effectively rubber-stamping actions against the contracts?

Please don't kill me.

Ok I'll put the electric chair away for now ... My timeshares are owned in fee simple per the deed - that means I am free to rent them or give the use of them to anyone I choose anytime I choose. I am the owner - end of story.

 

[SueDonJ]

Name me one (just one) situation with "other" things out there where you would get your deposit back when you "just changed my mind and want to cancel"?

Just one...

Sure, a direct-purchase timeshare, if you change your mind during the rescission period.

Now you'll tell me that without a written agreement the OP didn't have a rescission period to protect her. But I'll just say that without a written agreement neither did the landlord have any certain protections.

I really do pretty much agree that based on common decency the OP should be responsible for whatever OOP costs the landlord absorbed in this unfortunate situation. But it's up to the landlord to prove the OOP costs in some way.

What's happening here is that the OP is being bullied into accepting the complete blame for this mess, and I disagree that the fault rests solely with her.

Beyond that, all the talk about legal rights and supposed unspoken terms that I've coined "Rental Commandments" and who's actually right and wrong in this mess? We all have our own opinions that probably won't change no matter how long this thread continues, and without a written contract each of our opinions is as valid as the next.

 

[Cargojon]

I can't believe this thread is still alive.

I've read a lot of venom here at the OP, who seems to have tried to stay above the fray and not go tit-for-tat with many of the people here that appear to have nothing better to do than take sides, and nastily so. She did go off on one poster who appeared to be claiming to be clairvoyant. Can't blame her for that one.

Many of you should be ashamed of yourselves, this is a place where people come for advice, assistance, etc and several of you have turned this thread into a ****-flinging fest.

I pray someone has the mercy to close and lock this thread from further comment.

 

[rickandcindy23]

I've read a lot of venom here at the OP, who seems to have tried to stay above the fray

Thanks for getting this back on track. The OP shouldn't have asked our opinions, if she didn't want them. She dug a hole for herself and continues to dig it deeper, in my opinion.

All we can do is state our opinions. Some can actually say how they would handle it or have handled it.

You think the thread should close? That's your opinion.

 

[timeflies]

The only real venom has come from the OP. She simply keeps digging the hole deeper.

 

[aliikai2]

You should really read what the OP actually did

before you come here and bawl us out for calling her out on her B******T

fwiw,

Greg

I can't believe this thread is still alive.

I've read a lot of venom here at the OP, who seems to have tried to stay above the fray and not go tit-for-tat with many of the people here that appear to have nothing better to do than take sides, and nastily so. She did go off on one poster who appeared to be claiming to be clairvoyant. Can't blame her for that one.

Many of you should be ashamed of yourselves, this is a place where people come for advice, assistance, etc and several of you have turned this thread into a ****-flinging fest.

I pray someone has the mercy to close and lock this thread from further comment.

 

[MOXJO7282]

The Seller didn't get in touch with me for three days, and didn't tell me in the first email that her father died.

She does not corner the market on sad stories.

The whole reason I was trying to move my week into July is because my father has metastatic prostate cancer. He is starting radiation next week and won't be able to make the trip to Hilton Head with us at the end of August. I have a 2 year old daughter who might never know her grandfather. I could go into 100 different scenarios about how sad that is, but I won't.

Suffice to say, I have a huge amount of sympathy for someone who loses their father.

The other point to consider is that I did not initially realize that the person (owner) was on Tug. If she wants to post the emails, you will see that the subject line was "Red Week Rentals" (the standard message it puts in when you answer an ad on redweek). Because she answered me on redweek. When Denise asked me who this person was on Tug, I could not even remember, because she had contacted me through redweek. I actually thought it was someone who might have been just listing rentals on redweek and not really a Tug member. So, I take the hit on the chin for that one.

Having never rented before, and getting no response from the seller, incorrect check-in information, etc...yeah. I panicked. Who wouldn't? I had just sent $400 to a person who isn't even verified on Paypal! YIKES!

I offered to split her verified loss with her AND pay her paypal fees, but she refused this. She brought this garbage talk of lawyers, which just totally threw me for a loop. Never said word one about lawyers, but okay then...

I've been accused of not knowing about how rentals work (in the absence of agreements; apparently there's this pool of knowledge about how rentals just...'work'). But this person has been on TUG far longer than me and even told me that she's rented other units before. I pray it was with full knowledge to her renters!

Now we're forced to send this up to the 'powers that be', and if that isn't successful, then we'll have to challenge it with our credit card, and then go from there, because the seller simply wants to believe that she did every single thing right and even in the absence of telling us ahead of time that the money we were sending her would be retained, should be entitled to keep it.

I have truly no idea what this person rented the unit for. I asked for that information and I didn't get it.

My offer stands: I will SPLIT the substantiated loss with the seller and pay the paypal fees associated with the transaction.

If I remember correctly, the seller made some claim to have lost $200 on the transaction. So, if my math serves me correctly, that would mean a refund of slightly less than $300. Seller takes a hit, Jennifer takes a hit. I give the seller $100 bux for essentially nothing, and Seller takes hit for not disclosing to us that she was keeping the cash we sent her, being out of touch, agreeing to refund us, and then backing out.

Owners: you have GOT to tell your renters what you are doing with their cash! You have to provide agreements (hell, even in EMAIL! Just TELL the renter!) that any money they send is non-refundable. You have to give accurate resort confirmations. You can't assume that they somehow 'know' that you're keeping all of their money no matter what! You can't begin a transaction and, if something happens to the renter, just up and walk away with the cash. This owner never - and I mean NEVER!!! - told us that the money we sent her wasn't refundable; not in email, not on the phone, and not in any agreement. We are being held responsible for something we didn't even know.

And I'm not being nitpicky about 'signing an agreement'. Seriously. I couldn't produce for you ONE email where she even WROTE that she was keeping anything, because it was never said. Ever. If I ever heard this ANYWHERE from her, at least I would have known when I called her cell phone on that Friday. I would have known that I was kissing that cash goodbye. But I didn't.

Again; I offered to split this with her and she didn't bite, but the offer stands. I don't think there's anything more fair than that. You take your lumps, I take mine.

With all due respect ever hear of caveat emptor "buyer beware"? All the things you said the sellers need to do is what the buyers have to insist on knowing. The seller is not obligated to give any that is not clearly negotiated.

If this was viewed by a court they would determine what is customary and rule in that direction. It is customary that depostis are not refunded if renter cancels at last minute.

If you were an "aware buyer" you would have asked the terms of cancellation and if not to your liking you could have refused. Also you could have taken out travel interest if you were so concerned about refunds.

 

[MOXJO7282]

Well! Here's the follow up to the situation.

I have been negotiating for several days with the seller, who has provided some...let's just call them "interesting" facts here.

As a matter of course, I contacted my father in law and brother in law, who are both Pennsylvania attorneys. This was only AFTER the seller threatened with a lawyer and gave me the address of said attorney. I get free legal advice from those people, but I don't throw out there that I "have attorneys" in my family. I'm not like that.

The primary situation here is that the seller is not entitled to retain monies when there is no agreement (either email, written, or verbal) for liquidated damages. I realize many of you charge up front, in full, and provide no refunds for rentals, and as long as your renters agree to this up front, best of luck to you.

However, when a buyer does NOT agree, it is not 'assumed' or 'standard practice' or anything like that. You may think so, but it's not. Until there is an agreement between the parties, it is simply not enforceable.

After much discussion, I asked for proof that the Seller suffered a loss. How do I know s/he is not just claiming she rented for less and ultimately rented for the same amount - or more? A rental agreement does not provide that information. A rental agreement provides information about terms and length of stay. Cancelled checks, money orders, or verified paypal information that show the amount paid to the seller, do.

When I asked for this information, the seller told me she would not provide this. Again: The seller is NOT ENTITLED to retain anything for the 'loss' they may have suffered unless there is an AGREEMENT that allows this. But I was willing to at least evaluate the information and see if we could reach a fair solution based upon the facts, not just what the seller was telling me.

The unit was re-rented and the seller was apparently made whole. But the seller continues to keep our cash, without anything in writing stating why. I like what Denise told me at one point; she said (not exactly quoting, but...) "I'd say, 'Well, if you can't complete the rental, then I am keeping this money...are you still wanting to cancel?' " At least then I WOULD HAVE KNOWN!! Frankly, if I knew I was going to eat the entire thing, I would have called my inlaws or sister and seen if they had wanted the unit. And answering "Oh it's always that way" or "You should have known" are not acceptable defenses. Sorry. That's why you sign agreements - so that everyone knows everything they need to.

I have absolutely NO idea where the $178 figure came from - I really don't. I can't substantiate it. Taking a partial settlement with no understanding as to why just doesn't cut it for me. That's what they make small claims court for. I live in PA and she lives in Maryland from what I understand - it's not a far drive.

Mods can prove where people's IP comes from. I'm at home, btw. Not just some scam to back out, as some have suggested; I have a doctor's report that I was willing to provide to prove the situation, she didn't want it. I offered my phone number several times, she didn't want it until AFTER she started talking about attorneys. Then she offered me a phone number and I'm sorry, but once someone starts talking attorneys, it's not wise to speak by phone. I didn't think we were "there yet", but she brought it there. Okay, fine.

Bottom line is that I have wasted numerous hours of my life on this nonsense, and what I have from the seller is: 1. No confirmation that this reservation was EVER in my name; 2. A promise on July 18th via email that s/he would refund me and (her words) "let paypal do their job" - which was misleading 3. Several compromises that I have offered that have been refused and finally 4. Refusal to provide documents that support her claim of a loss.

Courts look for agreements (either verbal, written, or even in email). Courts look for statements like "non refundable" or any information that supports a seller's contention that an item's deposit or payment would not be refunded. I'm sure many of you at least mention this in emails or have your renters sign agreements which state this. She did not. Then she re-rented and keeps our cash anyway; never gave us a chance to find a renter for her, never transferred the item into our name.

I'm not engaging in an argument, but I wanted to update.

So in the absence of a contarct the courts rule what according to your family lawyers? With no contract they would look for what is customary and no refund is customary.

 

[BocaBum99]

So in the absence of a contarct the courts rule what according to your family lawyers? With no contract they would look for what is customary and no refund is customary.

It would never get to the courts for 2 reasons. 1) it's too costly for the amounts of money involved to get attorneys involved as their retainers would be more than any settlement by either side. 2) Even if a complaint were filed is small claims court, the judge would contact the attorneys and tell them to just work it out. This exact thing happened to me when I got into a dispute with a tenant for one of my rental properties. I withheld their security deposit for damage done to my house and she sued me to get it back. We ended up settling. The amount disputed was $5000, so it was substantially more than is being disputed here.

 

[stevedmatt]

Per Redweek's rental guidelines, we agreed to send her 50% of the agreed-upon price ($400).

Can you post a link to where this is mentioned on Redweek.com? I can't seem to find it.