Explain It To Me Like a Five-Year Old...

[SteveinHNL]

As they are happy with Gold season, and if they can use a Studio, and move rooms mid-trip. All they need to do is lock-off and pay the MVC fee to lock-off and then book the 1-bed and studio sections for consecutive dates directly in MVC, so no need for II if they can make that work.

Thank you for the info, I really like Marriott but I don't own it that system so it's good to know a bit about how it works!

 

[BulldogzRus]

As they are happy with Gold season, and if they can use a Studio, and move rooms mid-trip. All they need to do is lock-off and pay the MVC fee to lock-off and then book the 1-bed and studio sections for consecutive dates directly in MVC, so no need for II if they can make that work.

Yes, I also like the flexibility that if I want to book separate weeks I can, or do consecutive and still pay one maint. fee. Also, I just found out that both the Surf and Ocean Club are RTU-only, so does that mean that no one has "priority booking" and we all put in requests on e first come/first served basis?

 

[Hindsite]

RTU-only, so does that mean that no one has "priority booking" and we all put in requests on e first come/first served basis?

RTU is just a feature of how the ownership of the land is set up. It doesn't impact how the usual reservation timelines and prioritisations work.
Usually priority goes to owners booking in their owned week, within that it is usually by owner level, then its MVC points bookers. That said, I recall there being a "feature" for one of the Aruba resorts where they run their own prioritisation, which doesn't alter you getting the unit size and view type you booked, but may alter whether you get a better allocation within that combination. As you are planning on travelling in lower season that should not have much impact on you anyway. Just make sure that you buy the view type that you actually want.

 

[BulldogzRus]

You make the offer it is accepted and then the seller/agent prepares the documentation, which is submitted to MVC and they decide whether to exercise ROFR or not. If they do, the seller gets the price from MVC and the buyer is left with no purchase. If they don't exercise then the buyer gets the week.
You don't pay for the week until it has gone through the ROFR process, so you don't loose out. Avoid financing if you can as that kills the value you get from usage, if you do finance, get the best rate you can for the shortest time.

Thought more about this, and it would seem that I wouldn't really want to offer much less than asking because wouldn't that just make it easier for Marriott to swoop in and buy it instead?

 

[Hindsite]

Thought more about this, and it would seem that I wouldn't really want to offer much less than asking because wouldn't that just make it easier for Marriott to swoop in and buy it instead?

We really don't know what MVCs criteria for exercising ROFR is, it could be budget related and if you submit once they've met budget it won't matter what the price is, it could be price related.
look up on rofr.net for any info on the specific resort and then guess from there. Asking price isn't the best guide as some people price too low, just to get it shifted for MVC to pick it up, others are aspirational about the true value and overprice. Take some time to get a feel for what is reasonable and go from there. It may be trial and error, so prepare for having to do several rounds.

 

[claraj]

I think someone has noted before that MVC typically do not exercise ROFR for EOY contracts.

 

[Dean]

Negotiable to a point. You need to pass ROFR, if Aruba has ROFR, and that can be tough.

I would buy a good trader, Palm Desert Marriott platinum season, or another Marriott, like Grand Chateau in Vegas, maybe even Willow Ridge in Branson, and use that to exchange into Aruba. A good trader can easily get gold season in Aruba in a 1 bedroom.

For a 1 BR Gold season I would absolutely buy a "Trader" in the group of Grande Vista, Harbour Lake, Manor Club, Grand Chateau or Willow Ridge all Platinum. I might also consider others if there are ones you'd use part of the time that might be more difficult to get by exchange.

I've always believed ROFR could be overcome by inserting custom provisions into the contract, such as the seller retaining the option to rent back from the Buyer in odd years for payment of MFs. I'm sure Marriott couldn't honor that and would have to pass on the ROFR. If Seller later waives that right after closing, well isn't that nice.

I've seen this talked about and seen it tried but never seen this be successful. What I have seen work is to submit a dishonest representation of the deal which I could never do and would feel poorly of anyone that did. Adding in items that can't be duplicated is bypassed by MVC requiring you to put a value on the items. I've seen both MVC and DVC do this in such situation and I've been involved in it with DVC though it wasn't an intent to fool them but rather a true trade of timeshare deeds. IMO this is a waste of time.

I think someone has noted before that MVC typically do not exercise ROFR for EOY contracts.

It appears they are less likely so but they have been known to take them on occasion.

 

[m61376]

While rofl.net gives some reference numbers, historically it’s a bit of a crapshoot- Marriott may exercise ROFR today and tomorrow pass at a lower price. The only loss with failure is time and costs aggravation. You should always use a transfer company and money should always be held in escrow. So my best advice is to negotiate the best price you can.
Buying a week definitely seems like a no brainer for someone who likes to go annually. And Aruba is one of those places that many people like to frequently return to. We own at the SC so share your sentiments.
If you buy a 2 BR you can either use it as a 2 BR and treat family/friends, you can use it for 2 weeks, stating one week in the 1 BR and one in the studio, use the 1 BR and trade the studio for a larger unit (easy in the off season when you like to go) in Interval, or use the 1BR and rent the studio (in which case reserve the studio during a higher demand time, like a summer week, and you’ll cover or mostly cover your 2K annual MF).


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[SteveinHNL]

I've seen this talked about and seen it tried but never seen this be successful. What I have seen work is to submit a dishonest representation of the deal which I could never do and would feel poorly of anyone that did. Adding in items that can't be duplicated is bypassed by MVC requiring you to put a value on the items. I've seen both MVC and DVC do this in such situation and I've been involved in it with DVC though it wasn't an intent to fool them but rather a true trade of timeshare deeds. IMO this is a waste of time.

Are you aware of some mechanism by which Marriott can require a deed owner to "put a value" on these contract terms? My guess is that there is no mechanism, and that they have to decide whether to exercise the ROFR or not to. And if they choose to do so, I don't know that they would be happy to receive a deed that is encumbered by alternating year options to rent-back. Can you be more specific about what exactly you have seen tried that did not succeed, and how Marriott overcame it? Also, if someone could post Marriott's typical ROFR language, that would be interesting and helpful. I'm confident this approach would be very successful in getting Marriott to pass on its ROFR, but I would be more confident if I saw the contract docs that grant Marriott its ROFR in the first place.

 

[bizaro86]

If you have someone who has rented you a week for the cost of MF for many years in a row I'd consider asking them if they'd like to sell. They might be happy to be rid of it, and you might be able to work out a win-win deal

 

[jwalk03]

If you have someone who has rented you a week for the cost of MF for many years in a row I'd consider asking them if they'd like to sell. They might be happy to be rid of it, and you might be able to work out a win-win deal

This is definitely a good starting point at least. Though I have found that some owners are ill-informed and think their weeks are worth what they paid for them and have no clue the actual value. But I would certainly at least ask if they are interested in selling.

 

[Dean]

Are you aware of some mechanism by which Marriott can require a deed owner to "put a value" on these contract terms? My guess is that there is no mechanism, and that they have to decide whether to exercise the ROFR or not to. And if they choose to do so, I don't know that they would be happy to receive a deed that is encumbered by alternating year options to rent-back. Can you be more specific about what exactly you have seen tried that did not succeed, and how Marriott overcame it? Also, if someone could post Marriott's typical ROFR language, that would be interesting and helpful. I'm confident this approach would be very successful in getting Marriott to pass on its ROFR, but I would be more confident if I saw the contract docs that grant Marriott its ROFR in the first place.

Yes, I've seen it happen a couple of times with MVC and once with DVC. While this gets talked about a lot, I've never seen an instance of this forcing a sale to go through and avoiding ROFR but honestly it rarely actually happens in practice. Maybe you have other information. The reality is they hold all the cards. All they have to do is to demand the value and refuse to allow the sale to be listed for the buyer. Unless one were willing to go to court or to simply keep the timeshare for the time being, they hold the cards whether you agree with them or not. IMO as a non lawyer, I can't see them losing such an argument in court if the intent were clearly simply to bypass ROFR. As I mentioned, I've actually done this with DVC but it was an honest exchange of a non DVC timeshare for DVC points. It was also very simple as the legitimate value was roughly the same anyway. We gave them honest numbers and they passed on ROFR. DVC did later take one of my sales under ROFR and tried to inset additional language requiring that I not release the terms of the sale. I refused being willing to just keep it but they closed anyway.

I am not aware of any language spelling out the terms for ROFR other than the fact it is required where applicable and their time frame to respond.

 

[Pamplemousse]

So I'm not sure if I'm making this too difficult on myself, but I've been visiting the Marriott Aruba Ocean Club the past 6 years. I always went in "low" season usually mid-September to October. Pre-pandemic the rates were approx. $1300-1850/wk. for a 1BR Villa, Oceanview but now are trending a good $500-1000 more because of demand. We're not really picky as long as it had the full kitchen which was nice to have, and the views have always been nice regardless. I've been using the same owner to rent from the past 4 times and she always charges less than market asks, so I usually offer a little more making sure to at least cover her maint. fees in rental. But it takes some emails back and forth to confirm dates, worse is last time I visited she had mistakenly given me my previous confirmation code and Marriott Front Desk was refusing to let me into the room, despite it being booked under my name and for that week. They literally we're playing the "we need to see/hear the new code directly from you, although we can see it here in our system" game. It took a call to the States and fortunately she picked up, but I sat on the phone long distance for almost 30 minutes while she looked for the new one.

Having said that, if I instead bought a floating medium (18-49) for say, $5-6k and current maint. fees of $1450, is it easier to just go that route? I love going there so it isn't like I'd regret it, but my understanding is that she usually had to see what is available, if you own one do you have access to some sort of rental calendar you can book ASAP if it is open? I mean, if I'm almost paying $3k a week as of now to rent, at a $5-6k purchase price then within two years I'm only paying for maint. and my airfare, correct? What I mean is, even w/yearly increases of approx. 5%, a good 20 years later my out-of-pocket to go there is still around $3500 in maint. fees which most likely would cost less than paying to rent it for a week, no?

Anything I seem to be missing here? Obviously my understanding is that getting the cheapest buying price is preferable then simply absorb the fees. What would be any hidden costs I'm missing specifically regarding the timeshare?

Thanks so much in advance!

In the simple terms-
-Find a resale you are interested in buying- note that its season matches the dates you want to travel if you don’t want to exchange via II.
-Have a look at rofr.net to get an idea of what has been passing- no guarantee this will work. MVC might not excise their right of first refusal at a lower rate than they had previously or they might exercise at an even higher rate. The price the seller sets and agrees to sell at is the price they will get either from you or Marriot via rofr. They may set a low price because they just want it sold quickly.
-Make your offer, repeat as necessary until you get one.
-Once you own you will get an MVC owners site log in. You use that site to book your actual stay up to 12 months in advance. There is a calculator under resources, helpful tools that show you the exact date you can book.
-You an only book you owned week (home resort, owned season) direct with MVC. Full unit or lock off a 2Br to get a week in 1br and a week in studio.
-You can rent your owned weeks once you reserve them (redweek or such).
-You can reserve your week and deposit into II for exchange (full week or lock off and deposit one or both parts).
MVC has in brand priority exchange on II to help get another MVC resort- you can exchange back into you home resort in the same or different season and you may get the option to upsize your unit for a fee (Views are not guaranteed through exchange).
As others have said if you want to plan to use II to exchange you don’t have to own Aruba and could potentially buy someplace with lower maintenance fees but if you plan to stay there most years it is simplest to not need to exchange (which also involves fees so it’s a balance).

 

[BulldogzRus]

This is definitely a good starting point at least. Though I have found that some owners are ill-informed and think their weeks are worth what they paid for them and have no clue the actual value. But I would certainly at least ask if they are interested in selling.

I've thought about this and ironically she'd probably sell it for next to nothing, lol! The problem with that of course is the Marriott ROFR scenario, I'd get all excited thinking I got a deal then have them take it right from under me. I wonder if even if their inventory was full, they'd buy one simply because the offer was too low? Not out of spite but to "keep up appearances" of a higher value property.

 

[jwalk03]

I've thought about this and ironically she'd probably sell it for next to nothing, lol! The problem with that of course is the Marriott ROFR scenario, I'd get all excited thinking I got a deal then have them take it right from under me. I wonder if even if their inventory was full, they'd buy one simply because the offer was too low? Not out of spite but to "keep up appearances" of a higher value property.

Yeah I wouldn't go too low or they almost certainly will take it. Especially in Aruba where they need the weeks to keep selling there.

 

[FunnyFarm]

I have tried to see ROFR.net but all I get is a page to add a new experience. The stats page just said future feature. What am I doing wrong.

 

[claraj]

I have tried to see ROFR.net but all I get is a page to add a new experience. The stats page just said future feature. What am I doing wrong.

Try selecting a company from the drop down menu.

 

[dioxide45]

I have tried to see ROFR.net but all I get is a page to add a new experience. The stats page just said future feature. What am I doing wrong.

That is a button to add a new experience. Clicking the button takes you to a different page. From the main page, just change the drop downs to the system and resort you are searching for.

 

[SteveinHNL]

I've thought about this and ironically she'd probably sell it for next to nothing, lol! The problem with that of course is the Marriott ROFR scenario, I'd get all excited thinking I got a deal then have them take it right from under me. I wonder if even if their inventory was full, they'd buy one simply because the offer was too low? Not out of spite but to "keep up appearances" of a higher value property.

This is such a perfect opportunity to try my theory of ROFR avoidance against the competing "it'll never work" theory.

 

[dioxide45]

This is such a perfect opportunity to try my theory of ROFR avoidance against the competing "it'll never work" theory.

The problem is, you'll never really know if that was the reason they waive ROFR. You might have to do 50 transactions and judge from a wider set of data Excuse to buy more!

 

[davidvel]

Are you aware of some mechanism by which Marriott can require a deed owner to "put a value" on these contract terms? My guess is that there is no mechanism, and that they have to decide whether to exercise the ROFR or not to. And if they choose to do so, I don't know that they would be happy to receive a deed that is encumbered by alternating year options to rent-back. Can you be more specific about what exactly you have seen tried that did not succeed, and how Marriott overcame it? Also, if someone could post Marriott's typical ROFR language, that would be interesting and helpful. I'm confident this approach would be very successful in getting Marriott to pass on its ROFR, but I would be more confident if I saw the contract docs that grant Marriott its ROFR in the first place.

Yes, I've seen it happen a couple of times with MVC and once with DVC. While this gets talked about a lot, I've never seen an instance of this forcing a sale to go through and avoiding ROFR but honestly it rarely actually happens in practice. Maybe you have other information. The reality is they hold all the cards. All they have to do is to demand the value and refuse to allow the sale to be listed for the buyer. Unless one were willing to go to court or to simply keep the timeshare for the time being, they hold the cards whether you agree with them or not. IMO as a non lawyer, I can't see them losing such an argument in court if the intent were clearly simply to bypass ROFR. As I mentioned, I've actually done this with DVC but it was an honest exchange of a non DVC timeshare for DVC points. It was also very simple as the legitimate value was roughly the same anyway. We gave them honest numbers and they passed on ROFR. DVC did later take one of my sales under ROFR and tried to inset additional language requiring that I not release the terms of the sale. I refused being willing to just keep it but they closed anyway.

I am not aware of any language spelling out the terms for ROFR other than the fact it is required where applicable and their time frame to respond.

I am curious about the details as well. Any response that "Marriott holds all the cards and you have to sue" always applies, but irrlevant to the discussion whether they have legal right to do so.

Unless it is a demonstrably sham sale bordering on fraud, I see many terms that could be included that the "Declarant" (whoever that is today) would not accept. Here is the language for Shadow Ridge, which I presume is consistent among US resorts. I see nothing in the language that allows the Declarant to choose what terms it is willing to accept or not. If the Declarant objected and it was a legitimate deal, I'd probably be willing to represent the buyer and seller pro bono.

 

[daviator]

I am curious about the details as well. Any response that "Marriott holds all the cards and you have to sue" always applies, but irrlevant to the discussion whether they have legal right to do so.

Unless it is a demonstrably sham sale bordering on fraud, I see many terms that could be included that the "Declarant" (whoever that is today) would not accept. Here is the language for Shadow Ridge, which I presume is consistent among US resorts. I see nothing in the language that allows the Declarant to choose what terms it is willing to accept or not. If the Declarant objected and it was a legitimate deal, I'd probably be willing to represent the buyer and seller pro bono.

View attachment 96137

This was kind of the point of a post I made over on the Vistana board. When MVC invokes ROFR, they merely step into the buyer's shoes and are subject to all of the terms of the agreement. It just seems like it shouldn’t be that hard to come up with some additional terms of sale which MVC would be unable or unwilling to accept, essentially forcing them to pass on ROFR.

For example, you could add a barter component to the sale (“Buyer further agrees to come to Seller's residence weekly for one year and wash Seller's car.”) Marriott's never going to accept that, and you wouldn’t actually have to enforce the clause against a third party buyer. Or add financial penalties for all delays in closing the deal after 5 or 10 days, except for delays which are out of both parties' control. Since MVC controls the whole process, they’d have to pay up if they didn’t close the deal within a time window that they probably cannot meet.

I haven’t spent much time thinking about this, but it just seems like a clever person who wanted to avoid ROFR could find contract terms that would dissuade MVC from exercising their right.

 

[SteveinHNL]

I am curious about the details as well. Any response that "Marriott holds all the cards and you have to sue" always applies, but irrlevant to the discussion whether they have legal right to do so.

Unless it is a demonstrably sham sale bordering on fraud, I see many terms that could be included that the "Declarant" (whoever that is today) would not accept. Here is the language for Shadow Ridge, which I presume is consistent among US resorts. I see nothing in the language that allows the Declarant to choose what terms it is willing to accept or not. If the Declarant objected and it was a legitimate deal, I'd probably be willing to represent the buyer and seller pro bono.

View attachment 96137

I'll second chair you on that case lol. ROFR is just that. If the terms are too good for Marriott to pass up, they exercise their right. If the contract terms are a bit too personalized for them to be able to manage, they would have to pass. I don't even think they'd spend a whole bunch of time fretting about it. I'm sure Marriott has more than its share of easy deals to step in on without spending time and money on the ones that are a bit more complex for them.

 

[davidvel]

I'll second chair you on that case lol. ROFR is just that. If the terms are too good for Marriott to pass up, they exercise their right. If the contract terms are a bit too personalized for them to be able to manage, they would have to pass. I don't even think they'd spend a whole bunch of time fretting about it. I'm sure Marriott has more than its share of easy deals to step in on without spending time and money on the ones that are a bit more complex for them.

Right, as long as the deal has legit personal terms that MVC would never agree to, it would be on them to claim it was fraudulent.

 

[TravelJoy]

Yes... DVC did later take one of my sales under ROFR and tried to inset additional language requiring that I not release the terms of the sale. I refused being willing to just keep it but they closed anyway.

I am not aware of any language spelling out the terms for ROFR other than the fact it is required where applicable and their time frame to respond.

What were the terms of that sale