Exit Strategy

[OldGuy]

Something many do not consider, especially here at Tug, is that timeshares are considered a fun luxury item. The people that develop these do so for profit and there are many expenses and regulations regarding timeshares. The people that buy these usually understand that timeshares are luxury items and want them because they are desirable. The problem is created because timeshare companies are selling their product to people that can't afford a timeshare which debases the product.

Bill

I've tried to leave this alone, but . . . luxury items are owning your own place on Sanibel, Captiva, Boca Grande, et al . . . . Timeshares have always been pitched to ordinary, middle-class people, as a means to provide affordable vacations in nicer facilities than traditional motels.

 

[PigsDad]

I've tried to leave this alone, but . . . luxury items are owning your own place on Sanibel, Captiva, Boca Grande, et al . . . . Timeshares have always been pitched to ordinary, middle-class people, as a means to provide affordable vacations in nicer facilities than traditional motels.

That may all be true, but it doesn't change the fact that timeshares are a luxury item, i.e., something that is not a necessity. Or are you saying that middle-class people can't own luxury items based on the definition of "middle-class"?

Kurt

 

[PigsDad]

Owners who don't quickly react to change are the biggest losers...

Resorts that don't react to change are the losers...

I fixed it.

But resorts are run by the HOAs, and the HOAs are elected by the owners, so in the end, is it not the owners who need to be vigilant on keeping up the resort so it keeps its value? If owners and potential new buyers believe a timeshare ownership has value, then that would eliminate the issue of existing owners not being able to "get out" of their timeshare -- they could simply sell it. Unfortunately, what I see happening often is that the owners want to keep their MFs artificially low, allowing the resort to become undesirable, and in the end, the owners just end up screwing themselves. Of course there are exceptions, but IMO this is the root of why many timeshares are worthless.

BTW, this whole us (timeshare owners) vs. them (resorts) seems silly to me, since they are the same.

Kurt

 

[OldGuy]

I know one vigilant owner who did all he could to drag a couple of old-fashioned boards to deal with the obvious, and they did all they could not to. So, owner(s) can be vigilant, but it doesn't make any difference if the Board is not.

Generally speaking, the Board governs and the owners follow.

 

[OldGuy]

Or are you saying that middle-class people can't own luxury items based on the definition of "middle-class"?

Kurt

I am saying what I said, that timeshares have always been pitched to middle class people as a means to provide affordable vacations in nicer facilities than traditional motels.

Yup, that's what I said . . . it's right up there.

 

[easyrider]

I am saying what I said, that timeshares have always been pitched to middle class people as a means to provide affordable vacations in nicer facilities than traditional motels.

Yup, that's what I said . . . it's right up there.

Sure, nothing wrong with the sales pitch as it is true. I know there are many reasons some people think these timeshare sales are borderline fraud but the reality is these are sold to people that can afford them for the most part. Most people know their financial situation before attending a timeshare presentation. Most of the consumers that purchase timeshares are happy with their purchase in all categories of this product.

A person becomes un-happy and resentful with their purchase when they feel they can no longer afford it and are stuck trying to get rid of it. I get it but the reality is that this group represents a loan default rate of less than 8%. This default rate might seem high but compared to the default rate on vehicle loans at 35% or 40% for student loans it seems most timeshare debt is not sub-prime.

Really, you can't compare people at Tug with the regular timeshare consumer because many people at Tug know more about timeshares than the people selling them.

Regarding an exit strategy for majority of owners, it seems there is exit by selling it, giving it away, giving it back or walking away.

https://www.consumerreports.org/travel/the-timeshare-comes-of-age/

Bill

 

[PigsDad]

I know one vigilant owner who did all he could to drag a couple of old-fashioned boards to deal with the obvious, and they did all they could not to. So, owner(s) can be vigilant, but it doesn't make any difference if the Board is not.

I was referring to "owners" as the group of owners as a whole, not just two, three, or a small subset of owners. Go back and re-read my post with that definition and it should be more clear.

Generally speaking, the Board governs and the owners follow.

And owners elect the board. If the owners (the owners as a whole) do not like what the board is doing, they should oust them. Unfortunately, in many cases too many owners are apathetic to the whole process and find it easier to play the victim vs. doing something about it.

Kurt

 

[rapmarks]

I was referring to "owners" as the group of owners as a whole, not just two, three, or a small subset of owners. Go back and re-read my post with that definition and it should be more clear.


And owners elect the board. If the owners (the owners as a whole) do not like what the board is doing, they should oust them. Unfortunately, in many cases too many owners are apathetic to the whole process and find it easier to play the victim vs. doing something about it.

Kurt

We have situation at Christmas Mountain Village, bluegreen has controlling interest in three of the five boards. They wanted to take $538,000, the entire reserve fund, to remodel a building owned by Bluegreen and not the association. Fees would go up dramatically to replace the reserves. The two non Bluegreen associations fought it and right now it is on hold, but the way the vacation club is structured, bluegreen votes those ownerships and will always have control

 

[OldGuy]

We have situation at Christmas Mountain Village, bluegreen has controlling interest in three of the five boards. They wanted to take $538,000, the entire reserve fund, to remodel a building owned by Bluegreen and not the association. Fees would go up dramatically to replace the reserves. The two non Bluegreen associations fought it and right now it is on hold, but the way the vacation club is structured, bluegreen votes those ownerships and will always have control

Ah, c'mon, as we have recently been informed . . . let me grab the exact words . . . But resorts are run by the HOAs, and the HOAs are elected by the owners, so in the end, is it not the owners who need to be vigilant on keeping up the resort so it keeps its value? . . . And owners elect the board. If the owners (the owners as a whole) do not like what the board is doing, they should oust them.

So, you, the owner, the one in charge, is at fault.

 

[PigsDad]

Ah, c'mon, as we have recently been informed . . . let me grab the exact words . . . But resorts are run by the HOAs, and the HOAs are elected by the owners, so in the end, is it not the owners who need to be vigilant on keeping up the resort so it keeps its value? . . . And owners elect the board. If the owners (the owners as a whole) do not like what the board is doing, they should oust them.

So, you, the owner, the one in charge, is at fault.

Nice selective editing -- you should be the press secretary for our president, as you can certainly spin things! You conveniently forgot a key sentence:

Unfortunately, in many cases too many owners are apathetic to the whole process and find it easier to play the victim vs. doing something about it.​

I still stand by my statement. Nice try, though.

Kurt

 

[WVBaker]

Nice selective editing -- you should be the press secretary for our president, as you can certainly spin things!

Tread cautiously

 

[jme]

It would be nice to see an exit strategy for this thread......it has far outlived its usefulness (if any).

I DID learn, however...perhaps new to many,
that old, run-down and mismanaged smaller resorts experiencing extreme financial difficulties are making owners unhappy,
and they would like to find a quick way out with no further responsibilities.

 

[easyrider]

It would be nice to see an exit strategy for this thread......it has far outlived its usefulness (if any).

I DID learn, however...perhaps new to many,
that old, run-down and mismanaged smaller resorts experiencing extreme financial difficulties are making owners unhappy,
and they would like to find a quick way out with no further responsibilities.

The quickest way out is to call the resort person that is in charge of the maintenance fee's and tell them you will no longer be paying the mf and that you would be happy to quit claim the ownership back to them or let them foreclose. Foreclosing will take time and cost the resort maybe $250. If you don't rely on your credit score this would not a huge problem as the foreclosure might show up on your credit score. There is also the possibility of the amount owed being sold to a collection agency.

Often not the quickest way to exit would be to give the timeshare away or sell it. Many resorts are hard to sell or give away. Quit claiming the deed to some one else is easy if they want it. You can give the timeshare to anyone. I have read that some people quit claim to people that are terminal or very old because death terminates the contract.

There might be a legal option that could allow you to terminate the contract because many timeshare sales, especially resale timeshares, have the wrong information on the recorded deed. It could be that the recording didn't have the proper names, signatures that are not the same throughout the contract, unit size or what ever. The most common thing is the signatures and legal description of the unit owned have been altered. The contact is required to be notarized and names throughout the contract need to match. The legal description has to match as well. None of this can be altered without your consent usually given by an addendum or initialing the correction.

So looking at your contract and comparing it to what is recorded can provide a means to terminate the contract occasionally but you might need to hire an attorney.


Bill

 

[jme]

It would be nice to see an exit strategy for this thread......it has far outlived its usefulness (if any).
I DID learn, however...perhaps new to many,
that old, run-down and mismanaged smaller resorts experiencing extreme financial difficulties are making owners unhappy,
and they would like to find a quick way out with no further responsibilities.

The quickest way out is to call the resort person that is in charge of the maintenance fee's and tell them you will no longer be paying the mf and that you would be happy to quit claim the ownership back to them or let them foreclose. Foreclosing will take time and cost the resort maybe $250. If you don't rely on your credit score this would not a huge problem as the foreclosure might show up on your credit score. There is also the possibility of the amount owed being sold to a collection agency.
Often not the quickest way to exit would be to give the timeshare away or sell it. Many resorts are hard to sell or give away. Quit claiming the deed to some one else is easy if they want it. You can give the timeshare to anyone. I have read that some people quit claim to people that are terminal or very old because death terminates the contract.
There might be a legal option that could allow you to terminate the contract because many timeshare sales, especially resale timeshares, have the wrong information on the recorded deed. It could be that the recording didn't have the proper names, signatures that are not the same throughout the contract, unit size or what ever. The most common thing is the signatures and legal description of the unit owned have been altered. The contact is required to be notarized and names throughout the contract need to match. The legal description has to match as well. None of this can be altered without your consent usually given by an addendum or initialing the correction.
So looking at your contract and comparing it to what is recorded can provide a means to terminate the contract occasionally but you might need to hire an attorney.
Bill

Sorry for not being clearer with my opening remark, which was...
>>> "It would be nice to see an exit strategy for this thread......it has far outlived its usefulness (if any)."

WHAT I MEANT WAS......I'm ready for this WHOLE THREAD to go away.....
i.e., to "exit".
An "EXIT STRATEGY for the whole thread", not an exit strategy for owners and their poor weeks
at lousy resorts.
The thread is doing NOTHING but rehashing the same ole stuff,
and there will never be an answer that will please the owners of such, imho.

I then said facetiously,
"I DID learn from this thread, however...perhaps new to many, that old, run-down and mismanaged smaller resorts
experiencing extreme financial difficulties are making owners unhappy,
and they would like to find a quick way out with no further responsibilities."

It's the "no responsibilities going forward" that gets to me, i.e., being relieved of maintenance fees, etc.
WHY should they be relieved of that? It's what they purchased and contracted for, like a home mortgage or a vehicle.

My answer was to sell, period, THAT is the only "exit strategy" that is doable and right.
Sorry to not have been clearer.

 

[OldGuy]

I agree, that discussions of this nature are not intended for people who do not care for discussions of this nature. That would include most people here.

But, by ARDA's own numbers, discussions of this nature are pertinent to over 300,000 timeshare owners just in the State of Florida. No telling what the total number would be . . . more than a million?

I can't help but think that maybe legacy resorts are the canary in the coal mine.

But, if you are not the intended audience, congratulations. If you are, there's hope, and even the legislatures are seeing the need for changes.

You just exit the discussion by exiting the discussion, which is a lot easier than telling your board you aren't going to pay your maintenance fees any more, and you will just quit claim your week to them, and have them say, "OK."

 

[easyrider]

Sorry for not being clearer with my opening remark, which was...
>>> "It would be nice to see an exit strategy for this thread......it has far outlived its usefulness (if any)."

WHAT I MEANT WAS......I'm ready for this WHOLE THREAD to go away.....
i.e., to "exit".
An "EXIT STRATEGY for the whole thread", not an exit strategy for owners and their poor weeks
at lousy resorts.
The thread is doing NOTHING but rehashing the same ole stuff,
and there will never be an answer that will please the owners of such, imho.

I then said facetiously,
"I DID learn from this thread, however...perhaps new to many, that old, run-down and mismanaged smaller resorts
experiencing extreme financial difficulties are making owners unhappy,
and they would like to find a quick way out with no further responsibilities."

It's the "no responsibilities going forward" that gets to me, i.e., being relieved of maintenance fees, etc.
WHY should they be relieved of that? It's what they purchased and contracted for, like a home mortgage or a vehicle.

My answer was to sell, period, THAT is the only "exit strategy" that is doable and right.
Sorry to not have been clearer.

Maybe using one of the emogies to convey your sarcasm or not liking the thread might have been better than to ask another question that you didn't want to discuss.


Better yet would have been to not ask, imo. I really thought you were befuddled so I was only trying to help.

I agree with you that one of the best and most responsible thing to do with a timeshare you do not want is to sell it or give it away. That is what I do.

Bill

 

[easyrider]

If you are, there's hope, and even the legislatures are seeing the need for changes.

You just exit the discussion by exiting the discussion, which is a lot easier than telling your board you aren't going to pay your maintenance fees any more, and you will just quit claim your week to them, and have them say, "OK."

No one can legislate timeshare debt away. A debt is a debt and a contract is a contract. Some resorts do take contracts back so it is a good idea to call and find out.

Bill

 

[4Sunsets]

OP, WOW, what a horrible idea! Only adopt this if you want to make timeshare companies wealthy. What we need is a simple consumer protection / truth in buying law that says timeshare companies must inform all prospective buyers about the full long-term costs of timeshare ownership, as in:

$70,000 upfront
$2200 closing fees

$1850 - approximate 1st Year MF
$2000 - approximate 2nd Year MF
$2250 - approximate 3rd Year MF

$225 - approximate 1st Year taxes
$250 - approximate 2nd Year taxes
$275 - approximate 3rd Year taxes

$299 - approximate 1st year club dues
$309 - approximate 2nd year club dues
$319 - approximate 3rd year club dues

$98000 approximate 10 year ownership costs
$187000 approximate 15 year ownership costs
$265000 approximate 20 year ownership costs

This would help a lot of people understand whether they can really afford to purchase.

 

[OldGuy]

What we need is a simple consumer protection / truth in buying law that says timeshare companies must inform all prospective buyers about the full long-term costs of timeshare ownership, as in:

. . . .

This would help a lot of people understand whether they can really afford to purchase.

See Posts 12 & 14.

My topic is trying to address problems faced by "legacy" resorts, something ARDA, timeshare advocate groups, legislatures, law firms, and the TS industry acknowledge.

Addressing lying and sleaze is a different topic.

I'm thinking that legacy resorts are like a bad tooth. If you ignore them, they will go away.

 

[OldGuy]

One thing has not changed in the last 20 years is the response to those warning about timeshare issues.

Many of the resorts and systems that were bragged about by owners 20 years ago are now gone or the ones in trouble. Back then, even when there actually was a valid resale market, there were people giving warnings, and those warnings were received the same way warnings are being received now.

I can see the possibility of those really-nice, corporate-controlled systems with their $1000, $1200, $1500 annual fees hitting a wall with the current generation of owners when the inevitable life-changes occur.

Just sell when you're done with it . . . that's the exit strategy the industry was counting on, never considering what would happen when that collapsed.

So, I tend to lean toward those who are looking at the big picture, when they say:

All of this suggests that the industry should not ignore the challenges facing legacy resorts, but embrace it and assist the resorts make the right choices for their owners. The marketplace is telling us that change is coming, and we need to manage it without damaging the reputation of timeshare.

 

[bogey21]

One thing has not changed in the last 20 years is the response to those warning about timeshare issues...Many of the resorts and systems that were bragged about by owners 20 years ago are now gone or the ones in trouble. Back then, even when there actually was a valid resale market, there were people giving warnings, and those warnings were received the same way warnings are being received now.

We all didn't ignore the writing on the wall. When I saw what was happening I sold my 4 Marriott Weeks at a small profit not less. I then used 10% the proceeds to buy Weeks at 6 different HOA Controlled Independent Resorts and banked the other 90%...

George

 

[OldGuy]

I then used 10% the proceeds to buy Weeks at 6 different HOA Controlled Independent Resorts and banked the other 90%...George

How many of those have you sold?

 

[OldGuy]

Florida alone:

Nearly 36 legacy resorts are subject to potential termination, and may not be prepared for such an event.

http://www.arda.org/arda/government-affairs/issues.aspx?id=5876
- - - - - -
Timeshare is a use product and we understand that your life circumstances may have changed since you purchased it. The goal of the Coalition for Responsible Exit is to provide you with information and tools to help you make informed decisions on exiting your timeshare, as well as arm you with the knowledge to avoid scams and mistakes in the process.

In return, you have the peace of mind that you are getting the trusted and transparent advice from the industry trade association ARDA, its resort developer members and the largest coalition of timeshare owners (ARDA-ROC).

https://responsibleexit.com/

 

[OldGuy]

If a resort cannot take a week back, charging whatever fair fee they deem necessary, and convert it into a productive week via sale or rental, I question whether that resort is viable.

Many resorts have discovered that there are plans that are neither too easy nor too hard to accommodate the many reasons owners who wish to/need to exit their timeshares.

I first started encouraging one of our resorts to come up with such a plan eleven years ago, and we are going today to notarize the QC Deed the Association sent us. It costs us one year's maintenance fee, recording costs, and a $150 transfer fee, all unnecessary to transfer real estate, but agreeable to us.

Not too soft, not too hard. "Over easy"

Over those eleven years I have managed to transfer two other weeks to new owners, but, not many timeshare owners are diligent and persistent enough to spend eleven years getting this done. Also, the resort did not benefit from the extra year's fees and transfer fees, not did they have any control over who the weeks went to, on the two I did myself (for $28 each).

All this is disregarding the fact that at the end of our use of these weeks, they had no or very little value to us, no one was jumping up and down saying, "I want one. I want one."

Heading to the bank now.

 

[bogey21]

How many of those have you sold?

I sold them all some 5-7 years ago when (for health reasons) I gave up traveling. It took me about 3 years before the deed was done. In the interim I rented them or gave them to friends to use. Best I can recall I got back about $1,000 of the $6,500 to $7,000 they cost me. My loss was approximately equal to the profit I made when I sold my Marriott Weeks...

George

PS Note that 3 were Deeded Back to HOAs. I think the most I paid for this privilege was $100...