EXIT Strategy- Death, Disability, Desire…..

[ronparise]

Is the general recommendation of experienced TUGers NOT to put a new timeshare in a family trust? I am in the process of purchasing a resale timeshare and was planning on having the deed show the Trust as owner. It appears from the postings above that this would be a bad idea.

A trust is probably a good way to title a timeshare, if you want it to live on after your death..But if your family dosent want it...thats the problem

 

[DeniseM]

Even if this resort is less than desirable, the weeks can be converted to Wyndham points 650000 at $470/1000 points mf...thats desirable, even if the resort isnt

Ron - Most of the weeks at this resort don't have points. The resort was completely sold out before Wyndham bought it out and only a small number of owners have converted to Wyndham, because Wyndham requires you to buy a full price unit from Wyndham to join. We were quoted $18,000 minimum to join Wyndham. Before Wyndham bought it, it was part of a small timeshare group on Kauai - Pahio.

BTW - the resort is very "desirable." We own 3 Starwood timeshares, but this is our favorite resort.

 

[ronparise]

Denise...I havent done it but Ive been offered the opportunity to convert my floating weeks (at a Wyndham resort) into points; $2300 for the first week and $900 each additional...

...You are probably thinking of Wyndham's PIC program where you can bring a non Wyndham week into the wyndham points program with a new purchase

 

[DeniseM]

We have attended two Wyndham presentations since buying resale at KBV (one at this resort) and both times we were told that we had to buy another week from the developer to bring the resales into Wyndham points. We were not offered the deal you referenced at either presentation. It's been 3 or 4 years since we attended a presentation - could it have changed?

 

[ronparise]

Maybe the old Pahio is different than the old Equivest that I own

 

[pkyorkbeach]

Two daughters who plan on using the TS's that I own. One keeps hoping I will let her have one week now so she can go with her college room mate.

 

[Ridewithme38]

We have attended two Wyndham presentations since buying resale at KBV (one at this resort) and both times we were told that we had to buy another week from the developer to bring the resales into Wyndham points. We were not offered the deal you referenced at either presentation. It's been 3 or 4 years since we attended a presentation - could it have changed?

Be careful when dealing with the sales weasels, they'll do anything to make an additional sale...I'm worried to go to the bathroom during those meetings for fear they'll tell me i have to buy a discovery package to flush

When i called Wyndham Corporate Direct 800-786-6764 back in Jun 2011 i was told the fee to convert was $2,395, no need to buy any additional weeks...You should try calling directly to corporate instead of talking to the sales weasels

I don't know if its different for the resort your dealing with though, the resort i was questioning him about was Kingsgate

 

[am1]

I agree with Ride and Ron.

Salesmen will tell you what they think will make a sale. Wyndham wants weeks converted so they can collect the program fee and there is more inventory available for points owners.

 

[DeniseM]

Guys - I have been to many sales presentations in my day. I'm not a greenhorn here. I can assure you that Wyndham NEVER offered to convert my Pahio weeks to points for a fee.

I have no intention of calling the corporate office. The last thing I would consider is converting Ocean Front weeks to Wyndham points!

 

[california-bighorn]

Guys - I have been to many sales presentations in my day. I'm not a greenhorn here. I can assure you that Wyndham NEVER offered to convert my Pahio weeks to points for a fee.

I have no intention of calling the corporate office. The last thing I would consider is converting Ocean Front weeks to Wyndham points!

We also own @ "Wyndham" PAHIO Kauai Beach Villas and last September, out of curiosity, we took the sales presentation to convert to Wyndham points ownership. To convert, Wyndham would require we purchase a minimum of Wyndham points (don't really remember the number, but 230,000 sticks in my head) for $17,000, then they would allow our KBV to be used toward Wyndham points. The Wyndham sales people said almost everyone was converting to points because it is such a "good deal" while the actual number of owners converting is in the 10% range. Agree with Denise, I see no valid reason to convert any PAHIO week to Wyndham points.

 

[Holly]

My husband has strict orders to come to TUG, announce that I died, and find someone to help him give away the timeshares. He has no idea what we have or how to use them. He just goes along with the whole thing, lol.

For a long time he thought that I had to be having an affair with someone on line. A timeshare BBS? C'mon, be realistic! That's ridiculous.

 

[ronparise]

Guys - I have been to many sales presentations in my day. I'm not a greenhorn here. I can assure you that Wyndham NEVER offered to convert my Pahio weeks to points for a fee.

I have no intention of calling the corporate office. The last thing I would consider is converting Ocean Front weeks to Wyndham points!

This whole discussion about converting Wyndham weeks to Wyndham is a little off topic, but I hate to leave so much bad information out there.

Even if you convert, you still own the underlying week and you can use it pretty much as you always have...Its just that you would have the option of not using it and using points somewhere else, instead...You may not want to do it, and it may be an bad idea for most anyone, but it can be done for a fee.....and I think think its a good way to get low mf Wyndham points for a reasonable amount.. Which I think goes to ampaholic's question "What am I missing?"

BTW no one is suggesting that you would want to convert your week to points, but I would think that you would want to confirm that the info you are putting out here is correct...dont worry...dont call.. I will do it

 

[Sewbiz13]

Please, please, please - anyone that is planning on passing their timeshare on to someone after they are "gone", please make sure that the person wants it. Also, check your deeds and see what they say about when you are "gone". My sister and I went through heck and back with my parent's 2 timeshares. We never wanted them and we were in a bad place. I am happy that we finally did get rid of both of them but wish we never had them.
Presley - what a great idea to have the folders with the info in them. Your family will truly appreciate that - I know I would have if my parents had done that.
To those of us that are not familiar with timeshares - the whole process was very hard on us and it truly makes your head spin trying to get answers.
Dot your "i"s and cross your "t's and be sure you have everything set up right so it is easy for the next person in line.
I hope you are all here for a very long time and can enjoy your vacations!

Barbara

 

[DeniseM]

BTW no one is suggesting that you would want to convert your week to points, but I would think that you would want to confirm that the info you are putting out here is correct...dont worry...dont call.. I will do it

Ron - see post #35 that confirms my experience...

 

[glypnirsgirl]

I have 6 weeks in 4 different systems. Between us, Ian and I have 3 kids. My son and daughter-in-law would love the DVC points. So would my 2 bonus children. After our marriage and our first two family vacations, we bought more points so that we could divide them evenly between the 3 kids. Now Ian wants to sell half of our points because it had been so easy to trade in through RCI. (But now it is hard again, so who knows??)

The Rayburn Country Club and Dikhololo I think that I will leave to their respective Homeowners Association. No one in the family is going to want to spend the time that I have spent learning to use these.

I have 2 Gold Plus weeks at SBP. I get such good trades with those, they will be worth keeping if one of the kids wants to learn to use them --- much easier than RCC and Dikhololo. If no one wants to learn --- or to use them, they can be deeded back to the HOA also.

I refuse to make a HOA go through the hassle and expense of foreclosing. if it is avoidable with some planning.

elaine

 

[ampaholic]

Gosh folks I was just talking about changing my policy to not buy weeks in Hawaii but instead trade into Hawaii with cheaper MF mainland weeks - I have actually thought about bidding on the G11 unit at KBV just because of the "OMG the view" factor.

I got my 1 bedroom week at Wyndham Beach Walk in April in exchange for a week I reserved with 50% of my MROP points (about $360 worth) plus $89 exchange fee = $449 all in ($64 per night).

Sorry to stir up so much controversy about Wyndham points.

I was working up to tie the MROP into this thread because they (MROP) have such a good built in exit available.

 

[Goofyhobbie]

While I agree that the subject of conversation is off topic, I believe there may be a need for more clarification given what has been said so far within this thread.

Ron said above:

Even if this resort is less than desirable, the weeks can be converted to Wyndham points 650000 at $470/1000 points mf...thats desirable, even if the resort isnt

Surely, that result which I have emphasized in red cannot be right.

Ron, assuming you are correct about the conversion result (650K), I have to question the rate per thousand. My calculation indicates that the rate should be roughly $4.20 per thousand for 2012. Of course, any buyer who can and does consider a conversion should also consider the FSP fee and whether or not Real Estate taxes or other costs associated with the property deeded in Hawaii would apply annually.

My numbers and the result obtained were the result of using the E-Bay seller's quote for the Maintenance Fees for the two weeks together [$2,729.24].

Of course the proper technical term for maintenance fee is the Club Wyndham Plus assessment. If correctly quoted, the fee is broken down into two parts. Part A is the Property Owners Association fee which covers items such as utilities, insurance housekeeping and maintenance cost of the resort property. Part B is the Fairshare Plus (FSP) fee which covers the management of the reservation system, staff to run the telephone and computer systems as well as other miscellaneous cost including the Resort Exchange Fee cost.

STILL a current cost per thousand of $4.20 sounds good; but there are a lot of questions that I would get an answer to in writing before making a purchase and especially if I intended to convert after the purchase. If the rate per thousand appears to be too good to be true, it very well may not be true.

It is usually true that one can get the best conversion deal available by going to Wyndham Corporate Direct. Wyndham assigns a point value to each resort based on the size of the units, the location and the season, so it is quite possible that the two weeks being discussed are worth 650K.

It is also true that Wyndham sales at some but not at all Wyndham resorts does offer conversion packages to those who own certain Wyndham fixed weeks in order to make as large a sale as possible; but whether or not such a package has ever been offered to owners at the former Pahio property is something only someone who experienced such an offer could attest.

Such an offer apparently has not been made to anyone who has (so far) posted within this thread.

Meanwhile, the cost to make a conversion has changed periodically over the years. As late as the early Spring of 2010 Corporate Direct, in writing, offered many if not all fixed week owners throughout the mini system CLUB WYNDHAM PLUS and the Plus Partners options and benefits for only $1,795 to convert ONE week without an additional purchase. The next FOUR weeks that a particular owner could have converted were offered at the rate of $995 each.

Obviously the cost to convert has gone up since then and the rate of $2,395 for the first week with the second week for $995 is probably currently correct.

However, as most fixed week owners at Wyndham have experienced, there usually is a minimum up-front purchase required to do the conversion especially if the offer comes through a salesman at a Wyndham Resort.

Having said that, things at Wyndham change often, and what was the case when one or more Wyndham owners inquired may not be the case tomorrow.

 

[am1]

Ron - see post #35 that confirms my experience...

#35 just confirms what happens at the resort. Not what happens through corporate. The end result is what is important not just what the salesmen are selling at the resort.

 

[Gophesjo]

Hi Ron,

For someone who does not own Wyndham developer points, would buying and converting these weeks to Wyndham points result in VIP status for the buyer without another developer purchase? Thanks,

Joe

I disagree with Denise on this...The PCC didnt get this because the resort is worthless, they got it because the owner was clueless, and was taken advantage of.

Even if this resort is less than desirable, the weeks can be converted to Wyndham points 650000 at $470/1000 points mf...thats desirable, even if the resort isnt


This will convert to 650000 wyndham points (conversion fee about $3100)

 

[DeniseM]

#35 just confirms what happens at the resort. Not what happens through corporate. The end result is what is important not just what the salesmen are selling at the resort.

I agree - but after buying here, I also attended a Wyndham presentation on the Big Island - and was told I had to buy another week there, as well. I just find it odd that I sat through 2 presentations, and was not offered the chance to just join Wyndham points.

 

[Ridewithme38]

I agree - but after buying here, I also attended a Wyndham presentation on the Big Island - and was told I had to buy another week there, as well. I just find it odd that I sat through 2 presentations, and was not offered the chance to just join Wyndham points.

The salesmen make money off the sales of weeks, corporate makes money off everything else...IMO, the salesmen you talked to were just trying to pad their commission, not unexpected...I don't know if they do or don't make a Commission off the conversion to points, but i'd think they'd make a MUCH bigger commission off a sale of a $17,000 week vs a $2395 conversion

Denise, if you are interested in conversion, as ron said:

Even if you convert, you still own the underlying week and you can use it pretty much as you always have...Its just that you would have the option of not using it and using points somewhere else

I suggest trying to call Corporate Direct at 800-786-6764, the person i talked to was named Thomas DeMarco (ext. 6860) and seemed pretty straight forward with me...There's a chance we are wrong about the fee to convert Pahio but no one will no for sure until its confirmed

 

[jschmidt]

I chose “Other” because I own a RTU in Mexico that expires in two years. When the RTU expires, it will be sold and I will get some of my money back (I hope). Then you can call me “A Renter”.

 

[Passepartout]

I posted this in another thread, but maybe it will have wider interest here.

It isn't just timeshares. It can be any long-term expenditure that we buy. Problem is that timeshares are sold to people as an asset. And it turns out that they are a liability. An ongoing expense that has no underlying value. The only way that timeshares are worth anything is in their use. Once an owner stops using his/her timeshare, it ceases to be an asset and in fact has negative value. Most of us just use other assets to continue to pay the perpetually ongoing and increasing expense that has less and less value due to the owner's inability to use the timeshare. I can't think of any other thing we can buy that falls into this category.

As I gaze into my hazy and cracked crystal ball, I can see a time when you can't give away most timeshares for free, and BOD's/HOAs won't accept deedbacks. The only way out is to BK out of them or die and force them on our descendents who will default out of them while they say 'Why did (you) buy this miserable thing?'

It's a coming mess.

I don't want to be 'Chicken Licken' crying that the sky is falling, but planning is far better than just ignoring the inevitable and putting the decision on our kids and kin.

Jim

 

[ronparise]

While I agree that the subject of conversion is off topic, I believe there may be a need for more clarification given what has been said so far within this thread.

Ron said above:

Surely, that result which I have emphasized in red cannot be right.

Ron, assuming you are correct about the conversion result (650K), I have to question the rate per thousand. My calculation indicates that the rate should be roughly $4.20 per thousand for 2012. Of course, any buyer who can and does consider a conversion should also consider the FSP fee and whether or not Real Estate taxes or other costs associated with the property deeded in Hawaii would apply annually.

My numbers and the result obtained were the result of using the E-Bay seller's quote for the Maintenance Fees for the two weeks together [$2,729.24].

Of course the proper technical term for maintenance fee is the Club Wyndham Plus assessment. If correctly quoted, the fee is broken down into two parts. Part A is the Property Owners Association fee which covers items such as utilities, insurance housekeeping and maintenance cost of the resort property. Part B is the Fairshare Plus (FSP) fee which covers the management of the reservation system, staff to run the telephone and computer systems as well as other miscellaneous cost including the Resort Exchange Fee cost.

STILL a current cost per thousand of $4.20 sounds good; but there are a lot of questions that I would get an answer to in writing before making a purchase and especially if I intended to convert after the purchase. If the rate per thousand appears to be too good to be true, it very well may not be true.

It is usually true that one can get the best conversion deal available by going to Wyndham Corporate Direct. Wyndham assigns a point value to each resort based on the size of the units, the location and the season, so it is quite possible that the two weeks being discussed are worth 650K.

It is also true that Wyndham sales at some but not at all Wyndham resorts does offer conversion packages to those who own certain Wyndham fixed weeks in order to make as large a sale as possible; but whether or not such a package has ever been offered to owners at the former Pahio property is something only someone who experienced such an offer could attest.

Such an offer apparently has not been made to anyone who has (so far) posted within this thread.

Meanwhile, the cost to make a conversion has changed periodically over the years. As late as the early Spring of 2010 Corporate Direct, in writing, offered many if not all fixed week owners throughout the mini system CLUB WYNDHAM PLUS and the Plus Partners options and benefits for only $1,795 to convert ONE week without an additional purchase. The next FOUR weeks that a particular owner could have converted were offered at the rate of $995 each.

Obviously the cost to convert has gone up since then and the rate of $2,395 for the first week with the second week for $995 is probably currently correct.

However, as most fixed week owners at Wyndham have experienced, there usually is a minimum up-front purchase required to do the conversion especially if the offer comes through a salesman at a Wyndham Resort.

Having said that, things at Wyndham change often, and what was the case when one or more Wyndham owners inquired may not be the case tomorrow.

I based my guess on what these weeks would be worth in points on the fact that a 2 bedroom ocean view unit takes 325000 points to reserve. 2x325=650

I based my estimate on mf, after a conversion to points, on the values posted in the ad... and then added the program fee
2751 + (.51x650) = 3060 / 650= 4.70

I based my statement that these weeks could be converted to points on offers that have been made to me to convert my floating weeks (at another wyndham resort) to points


Im sorry for this rather arcane discussion. All I was trying to do is show that there may be some value to this property (for some folks) beyond the obvious. Folks like me that see no value in owning a resort that I might visit just once in a lifetime, but could use more Wyndham points with cheap mf, to use at resorts closer to my home.

 

[Rent_Share]

The Rayburn Country Club and Dikhololo I think that I will leave to their respective Homeowners Association. No one in the family is going to want to spend the time that I have spent learning to use these.

I have 2 Gold Plus weeks at SBP. I get such good trades with those, they will be worth keeping if one of the kids wants to learn to use them --- much easier than RCC and Dikhololo. If no one wants to learn --- or to use them, they can be deeded back to the HOA also.

I refuse to make a HOA go through the hassle and expense of foreclosing. if it is avoidable with some planning.

Can someone confirm whether simply "leaving" to the HOA satisfies the requirement of not burdening decedents and avoiding foreclosure. ?