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Exit/Deedback of MVC destination points

txeddie17

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Jan 12, 2024
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Does anyone have any expereince with this in working with Marriott? I am interested in getting of this program due to a life chnaging event.

Is it just straight deedback to Marriott?
Can I expect any money in return?
How long does this take?
Are there other options to exit with certainty?
 
What you have, someone may want to buy from you for real money. You ought to check resale listings on RW and here on TUG marketplace, or talk to a broker. But if you own a very off-season week, it might have $0 value.
 
Does anyone have any expereince with this in working with Marriott? I am interested in getting of this program due to a life chnaging event.

Is it just straight deedback to Marriott?
Can I expect any money in return?
How long does this take?
Are there other options to exit with certainty?
Contact Exit Services at MVC. You will not receive any money in return, and your MFs must be paid current; and any purchase loan paid in full. The process is reported to last up to 180 days. You ask if there are any "options to exit with certainty". Well, there is only so many ways to dispose of unwanted real property ownership. Death, sale, gift transfer are all done with certainty. Deed-back to developer is basically only an option in the timeshare world when there is no purchase loan.

BTW - while you can always try and sell the Club Points (formerly known as Destination Points), that process takes time as you must find a willing buyer, go through the ROFR process if you do find a willing buyer, and then conclude the transaction. If you are looking for an immediate exit, basically the deed back is your only option. My condolences on your life changing event.
 
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Does anyone have any expereince with this in working with Marriott? I am interested in getting of this program due to a life chnaging event.

Is it just straight deedback to Marriott?
Can I expect any money in return?
How long does this take?
Are there other options to exit with certainty?
From your title you are trying to get rid of MVC Destination points, now called Abound points. Do not give them to Marriott like other posters suggest. There is an active sales market where you can garner about $3 per point. Giving them to Marriott would be like throwing this money away.

Note that NEITHER giving to Marriott or selling will work if you still have a loan balance tied to them.
 
Does anyone have any expereince with this in working with Marriott? I am interested in getting of this program due to a life chnaging event.

Is it just straight deedback to Marriott?
Can I expect any money in return?
How long does this take?
Are there other options to exit with certainty?
Because you are new, and you didn't indicate whether your points are paid off or not, you may not be aware that before they can be transferred out of your name they would have to be paid off. If they are paid off you could do a deed back and get nothing from Marriott. You could potentially sell and net around $2-$3 per point. Deeding back or selling it and pricing it right you can expect to be out in 6 months or less.
 
The resale market for points is dead right now. Just go to eBay and look at the myriad of points ownerships that received no bids and didn't sell. The reality is that many purchases that do happen are way below $2-$3 a point meaning Marriott is going to scoop the points up anyway through ROFR. The seller could end up losing money on the deal after paying all the listing costs, etc. If someone is willing to wait the market out and see if improves sometime in the next year or two to see if in hopes of getting a few bucks, great. But if they're looking to end their MF obligation for free (2024 points MFs already paid) sooner, then deed back would be the way to go.
 
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The resale market for points is dead right now. Just go to eBay and look at the myriad of points ownerships that received no bids and didn't sell. The reality is that many purchases that do happen are happening way below $2-$3 a point meaning Marriott is going to scoop the points up anyway through ROFR. The seller could end up losing money on the deal after paying all the listing costs, etc. if someone is willing to wait the market out and see if improves sometime in the next year or two to see if they can get a few bucks, great. But if they're looking to end their MF obligation for free (2024 points MFs already paid, then deed back would be the way to go.


"The seller could end up losing money on the deal......"

I don't think there is any question that the seller WILL end up losing money on the deal no matter what!





.
 
The resale market for points is dead right now.
That was quick. I was expecting points to hold some value a few years longer, but with recent maintenance fees increases the resale value of points is approximately zero already.
 
I wonder if Marriott's plan to drive up MFs so they could pick up points on the cheap to replenish inventory for sale. Doesn't seem to make sense, but stranger things have happened.
 
I wonder if Marriott's plan to drive up MFs so they could pick up points on the cheap to replenish inventory for sale. Doesn't seem to make sense, but stranger things have happened.
Don't forget that when MVW takes back Trust Points or adds components to the Trust such that additional Points for Sale are issued, MVW pays the MF on those points until sold. And, the Trust Components have MFs that are tied to the operating costs of those specific locations. All of the Component locations are audited properties, so it's not like the multiple HOAs/COAs could be hoarding reserve funds, as it would all be disclosed in the AFS. And, reserve funding is subject to the independent reserve analysis reports. So, if there was a big stash of cash in reserves, it would be noted by both the auditors and the reserve analysis folks.

Of course, when MVW does take back Trust Points via a deed back or if MVW exercises its ROFR, then those Trust Points are able to be resold. So, yes, it does get "inventory" to sell. But if you're not being flippant by that comment about driving up MFs to create more inventory, if that were really happening, the BOD of the Trust (which is all controlled by MORI) would be breaching their fiduciary duties to all Trust Point owners. The company wants to stay in business and sell its product and manage the properties. It doesn't want to own Trust Points to sell.
 
Does anyone have any expereince with this in working with Marriott? I am interested in getting of this program due to a life chnaging event.

Is it just straight deedback to Marriott?
Can I expect any money in return?
How long does this take?
Are there other options to exit with certainty?
Don't know if this would work for you, but I have been able to rent my Marriott points fairly easy and cover my MF.
Just need to use the points to book something and then use TUG or redweek.com. Best of luck
 
Don't forget that when MVW takes back Trust Points or adds components to the Trust such that additional Points for Sale are issued, MVW pays the MF on those points until sold. And, the Trust Components have MFs that are tied to the operating costs of those specific locations. All of the Component locations are audited properties, so it's not like the multiple HOAs/COAs could be hoarding reserve funds, as it would all be disclosed in the AFS. And, reserve funding is subject to the independent reserve analysis reports. So, if there was a big stash of cash in reserves, it would be noted by both the auditors and the reserve analysis folks.

Of course, when MVW does take back Trust Points via a deed back or if MVW exercises its ROFR, then those Trust Points are able to be resold. So, yes, it does get "inventory" to sell. But if you're not being flippant by that comment about driving up MFs to create more inventory, if that were really happening, the BOD of the Trust (which is all controlled by MORI) would be breaching their fiduciary duties to all Trust Point owners. The company wants to stay in business and sell its product and manage the properties. It doesn't want to own Trust Points to sell.
Having been a CPA and an auditor for over 30 years, I'm not so sure I agree with the statement that "all component locations are audited properties." Just because they have a financial statement doesn't make them audited, and intercompany expenses between the component locations and Marriott Vacations Worldwide aren't necessarily vital expenses for the location to function.
 
Does anyone have any expereince with this in working with Marriott? I am interested in getting of this program due to a life chnaging event.

Is it just straight deedback to Marriott?
Can I expect any money in return?
How long does this take?
Are there other options to exit with certainty?
I participated in their resale program, Took about 9 months from list to close. I received $7000.00 proceeds. Was very happy with the entire process.
 
Is Marriott still exercising ROFR at $3 to $4 a point ?
Or is that currently an unknown after the recent increase in Maintenance fees?
 
Recent entries at ROFR.net indicate above $3.80 pp may succeed.
I was just looking at ROFR.net and notice that the last reported entry was in early December and that was a fail at $1.60. It is possible if there are more points coming to market that the price they exercise at could fall.
 
Don't forget that when MVW takes back Trust Points or adds components to the Trust such that additional Points for Sale are issued, MVW pays the MF on those points until sold. And, the Trust Components have MFs that are tied to the operating costs of those specific locations. All of the Component locations are audited properties, so it's not like the multiple HOAs/COAs could be hoarding reserve funds, as it would all be disclosed in the AFS. And, reserve funding is subject to the independent reserve analysis reports. So, if there was a big stash of cash in reserves, it would be noted by both the auditors and the reserve analysis folks.

Of course, when MVW does take back Trust Points via a deed back or if MVW exercises its ROFR, then those Trust Points are able to be resold. So, yes, it does get "inventory" to sell. But if you're not being flippant by that comment about driving up MFs to create more inventory, if that were really happening, the BOD of the Trust (which is all controlled by MORI) would be breaching their fiduciary duties to all Trust Point owners. The company wants to stay in business and sell its product and manage the properties. It doesn't want to own Trust Points to sell.
While my post was somewhat flippant, it isn't necessarily impossible. While MVC would have to carry the points until they resell them, they do have ways to monetize them by renting out inventory that they own. Even if the MFs on points they own are a 100% loss, it just becomes a smaller margin that they make on them. The annual fee on points is only about 5% of the overall retail price. It would seem that this type of buy and sell inventory management would be cheaper than dropping an entire resort into the trust which could take several years to unload all the points. If they take back points with a 2024 use year, even if they sell them with 2025 use year, they have only lost maintenance fees on one use year. That is also considering that they didn't rent something out to monetized the points in the 2024 use year.
 
The resale market for points is dead right now. Just go to eBay and look at the myriad of points ownerships that received no bids and didn't sell. The reality is that many purchases that do happen are way below $2-$3 a point meaning Marriott is going to scoop the points up anyway through ROFR. The seller could end up losing money on the deal after paying all the listing costs, etc. If someone is willing to wait the market out and see if improves sometime in the next year or two to see if in hopes of getting a few bucks, great. But if they're looking to end their MF obligation for free (2024 points MFs already paid) sooner, then deed back would be the way to go.
If they can't sell them I'd agree, but if they can sell for even $1 a point, I can't imagine them losing money vs. a deedback (not counting what they paid in either case). It obviously depends on how many points they own but more than likely 1500 or more.

Also ROFR is irrelevant, as the seller gets paid either way. Heck I'd sell them to my brother then hope they ROFRd them.

Can you give an actual example of how they would lose money by selling?
 
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If they can't sell them I'd agree, but if they can sell for even $1 a point, I can't imagine them losing money vs. a deedback (not counting what they paid in either case). It obviously depends on how many points they own but more than likely 1500 or more.

Also ROFR is irrelevant, as the seller gets paid either way. Heck I'd sell them to my brother then hope they ROFRd them.

Can you give an actual example of how they would lose money by selling?
I would agree. Listing costs aren't going to be that much as long as you don't use a broker that requires some kind of minimum. I believe ebay is $35 + final value fee. TUG Marketplace would only be $15 for the membership and Redweek only $20 membership + $60 for DIY. I am not seeing many ebay listings ending with no bids unless they have a high starting bid. Ending bids are certainly coming in under a buck a point.

Of course this one probably lost money. Especially given that they offered up free usage. Sad that people seem to be resorting to exit and postcard companies now to get rid of MVC points.
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If the resale market of a timeshare system starts collapsing, a developer can only ROFR for so long to keep it afloat. After a certain point, it’s too many points for even the developer to keep grabbing.
 
If the resale market of a timeshare system starts collapsing, a developer can only ROFR for so long to keep it afloat. After a certain point, it’s too many points for even the developer to keep grabbing.
Thus has happened with Diamond and Club Wyndham. Looks like Marriott is in the same boat as them now.
 
Having been a CPA and an auditor for over 30 years, I'm not so sure I agree with the statement that "all component locations are audited properties." Just because they have a financial statement doesn't make them audited, and intercompany expenses between the component locations and Marriott Vacations Worldwide aren't necessarily vital expenses for the location to function.
Well, each deeded location I own as well as the MVC Trust have audited financial statements. I request them and review them.

And by the way, when using the term "component", I'm referring to the deeded weeks owned by the MVC Trust which the Trust refers to as "components." Also, do not forget that the Trust is a structure authorized by Florida law. The Trustee of the Trust is First American Title, which holds all equitable title of every component of the Trust. As part of its fiduciary duties to the Trust, I would expect that the Trustee would require AFS for every component location, but that is simply my assumption given a trustee's duties and responsibilities in these circumstances.
 
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While my post was somewhat flippant, it isn't necessarily impossible. While MVC would have to carry the points until they resell them, they do have ways to monetize them by renting out inventory that they own. Even if the MFs on points they own are a 100% loss, it just becomes a smaller margin that they make on them. The annual fee on points is only about 5% of the overall retail price. It would seem that this type of buy and sell inventory management would be cheaper than dropping an entire resort into the trust which could take several years to unload all the points. If they take back points with a 2024 use year, even if they sell them with 2025 use year, they have only lost maintenance fees on one use year. That is also considering that they didn't rent something out to monetized the points in the 2024 use year.
I agree with what you are saying about how MVC can monetize the points it owns. But going back to the original comment you made, I find it quite unrealistic to presume that the MFs are being driven up by MVC to "replenish" point inventory for sale. Remember what the MFs of each component location are based upon. MVW isn't going to randomly say let's add a multiplier of X to the MFs for Grand Chateau or Newport Coast or Ko'Olina so they can drive up the Trust MFs in order to cause either more defaults in MF payments to the Trust or sales of Trust Point ownership to then exercise a ROFR to take them back cheap when the Trust Point owner decides to sell.
 
Well, each deeded location I own as well as the MVC Trust have audited financial statements. I request them and review them.

And by the way, when using the term "component", I'm referring to the deeded weeks owned by the MVC Trust which the Trust refers to as "components." Also, do not forget that the Trust is a structure authorized by Florida law. The Trustee of the Trust is First American Title, which holds all equitable title of every component of the Trust. As part of its fiduciary duties to the Trust, I would expect that the Trustee would require AFS for every component location, but that is simply my assumption given a trustee's duties and responsibilities in these circumstances.
You are very knowledgeable about certain aspects of law; however, you’ve kept making this claim because there are audited financial statements everything must be above board.

As a CPA, I can tell you that this is a huge assumption. An audit does not consist of looking at every transaction and verifying that it is for a legitimate business purpose. It simply means that the accounting that has been done adds up and is compliant with accounting standards. It does not mean that the estimates (for example: reserves, MF defaults) are accurate or appropriate.
 
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