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EV Electricity at MVC Resorts [MERGED]

Not unless they start line-item charging of every other on-property amenity. We don’t use the indoor pools and I imagine the electricity cost for those far exceeds the EV charging stations? Don’t use the indoor activities areas either, or the owner lounges/hospitality suites. We do use electricity for TV’s/Wi-fi and electronic gadgets but TUG has taught me that many vacationers unplug, so should I be charged a surcharge and they be reimbursed?

We don’t have an EV and I don’t know how much the electricity to run one costs. I suppose if it’s more than $25/week during a typical timeshare stay, and the chargers can be outfitted with pay-as-you-go meters like the vacuums at car washes, then I’d be okay with that.
In my opinion, the charger access is an amenity, but the electricity usage is fuel for their personal car. There is a big difference. I also believe that guests should pay a greater portion for the activity costs, but that is a different issue. When I initially bought into MVC, it was more of a condo investment. Now everyone wants all the amenities of an expensive resort. That has driven our MF's to be almost unaffordable. We use the basic amenities, but don't need all of the activities or buttons and whistles.
 
I am an EV owner, and I would definitely expect to pay for the electricity - hopefully at cost or reasonable markup. Tesla superchargers automatically charge the owner's Tesla account for usage, which in California is based on time of day.
 
I am not sure I have ever seen a vehicle in one of these spaces while at a MVC property. Even when we went to Palm Desert, where I thought I would see at least one being utilized, they were all empty. There were quite a few spaces at DSVI and DSVII with EV chargers. I would suspect and hope that the resorts are installing these with some type of tax credit and/or some other entity paying for them. For as many Teslas that I see on the roads around here in Florida, it doesn't seem like any of them are ever at timeshares when we are.

On our recent trip, we saw 3 in use at the same time. I suppose it's semi random based on who is there the same week.
 
BTW - even at resorts that don't have any level 2 chargers, like Branson, many seem to have 110v outlets that can be used. Yes, they are super slow, but really, who cares. I don't use 250 miles in one day driving around Branson, so, the 90% of the day I am not using my car it can sit plugged in and that's what I do. I did the same in Florida at Legends Edge.
 
Not unless they start line-item charging of every other on-property amenity. We don’t use the indoor pools and I imagine the electricity cost for those far exceeds the EV charging stations? Don’t use the indoor activities areas either, or the owner lounges/hospitality suites. We do use electricity for TV’s/Wi-fi and electronic gadgets but TUG has taught me that many vacationers unplug, so should I be charged a surcharge and they be reimbursed?

We don’t have an EV and I don’t know how much the electricity to run one costs. I suppose if it’s more than $25/week during a typical timeshare stay, and the chargers can be outfitted with pay-as-you-go meters like the vacuums at car washes, then I’d be okay with that.

Totally agree with this as far as there are many things I do not use at a resort than undoubtedly some (many) do. In a week at Branson or Legends Edge I cited earlier, I might use 75 kwH of electricity including topping up for the return home. So, probably even in California, < $25.

To me, amenities are shared between all visitors. So, it averages off and I don't want to see more nickel and dime charges. Maybe you don't use chargers but use the JW pool/spa at DSV1. I don't, yet, MF is quite a bit for that line item, why should I have to pay? Maybe I don't use the exercise rooms. I certainly never use their probably expensive cable channels. Etc. I am quite certain this FAR more than offsets the "free" electricity. I will start being picky about all the items I don't use if others start being picky about items I do use. :)

I don't think there is a difference between electric usage for my car and amenity usage. By using the gym, you are causing the equipment to break down sooner and needing to be replaced, which raises my MF. Maybe you should be billed for the electric cost you use for your room for AC, maybe I use less. Why should I have to pay for your electricity costs?

In Branson, I charge at Branson Landing when down there as well ("free" level 2). In Palm Desert, there are chargers across the street practically from DSV that are free and a bunch all around town too.

I think for now at least, I'd be surprised if the annual cost per TS unit was even $1 (for charging electricity use fee). Would be interesting to see an overall stat, but I think it's going to equate to pennies on MF. At some point in the future, this will of course change and maybe then it does deserve looking into.
 
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I don't think there is a difference between electric usage for my car and amenity usage.
This would also mean there is no difference between the electric for your car or the gas for mine? Where are the fuel pumps so I can fill up?
 
This would also mean there is no difference between the electric for your car or the gas for mine? Where are the fuel pumps so I can fill up?

The infrastructure is being built out for electric cars, as mentioned earlier the way those are funding varies widely from electric companies, to state and local rebates, to all sorts oif other ways. That is a policy decision and there are many factors that go into that. For <$1/year per TS unit, it's not worth worrying about at this time IMHO. And as I said, maybe they should bill actual electric charges to each room ,which at DSV will be vastly more than any EV charging. That way, I won't fund your stay, or anyone elses. Gas has nothing to do with this. I am not at all against having to pay for it. There are so many bigger fish to fry though and worrying about pennies doesn't seem a useful expenditure of time.

I am calculating <$1/TS unit based on 1 out of 52 weeks potentially having an EV owner staying there, who decides to charge his vehicle there, and, is likely to spend more than $52 in electric. Not very likely. As I also said, as electric cars become more common and there is enough usage to worry about, revisit it. Seems practical. I am sure there are some resorts who are paying for the electric, I don't doubt that. At DSV, they told me the local utility will eventually charge, but is not doing so yet. So, in DSV case (assuming the information was valid), it's not a concern anyway. Factor that across all resorts, and it's probably not 25cents per week for those actually paying. And while EVs may be a few percent of the overall car ownership, it also doesn't mean the average resort non local person drives their EV across country, many do not. I talk to thousands of owners of EV in various forums, the majority do not drive long distances. I would be a rarity.

That's my main point.
 
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Just found this thread - while not a big EV guy I do believe that they are becoming pretty standard so I agree with having charging stations for those cars. The how is the big question.

We had an interesting event at Mountain Side where an EV was parked - not in a parking slot and plugged into a standard 110 outlet with a Tesla adaptor. This was bad for all - encouraged parking where ever you wanted, made traffic difficult (you had to make multiple attempts to get out of the slots across from the car) and the resort therefore the owners (us) were paying for the electricity for that vehicle. I guess it is up to us to get with the boards of the resorts we own at and let them know EV charging stations are fine - we will even pay for the instal - but the owner of the EV has to fund the electricity. While the idea of a profit to reduce the MF is nice I am not in favor of that option as per passepartout noted above. Not sure how the DP only folks can effect a single resort but.... I did mention it on our "exit survey" at Mountain Side as we were there on points..
Dont want to sound like a EV hater and I'm not - but when we buy gas we pay for the entire pipeline associated with fuel production and delivery as well as the roads (fuel taxes) EV should have to do the same.
I do understand the desire to use "free" infrastructure (government tax and grant rules) to drive behavior but not sure my/our MFs should be used in that manner.
 
This would also mean there is no difference between the electric for your car or the gas for mine? Where are the fuel pumps so I can fill up?
Ask Vladimir Putin :) Joking aside - this is the rationale why many employers dont offer free charging at work. Because they believe they would have to offer free gas or other free fuel types too.
 
EV chargers are pretty efficient and, in my experience, we use them at resorts for relatively small amounts for local travel. Yes, you could charge guests for their use but most EV chargers at resorts don't have a payment mechanism. Usage is probably not that significant when added to the overall electric usage, compared with air conditioners, pool pumps, refrigeration, etc. We look for their availability like some do for pools, jacuzzis and other resort benefits. And I do see a lot of employers adding them as an employee benefit.
 
This discussion has caused me to wonder who really is paying for ev charging stations? A primary reason a hotel installs ev charging stations is to draw overnight guests who may select a hotel with ev charging over a hotel that does not. Therefore, my opinion is the hotel side of Marriott should bear all the expense for installation and electricity. At the present time, ev charging is a marketing and sales tool to draw on hotel guests. If timeshare owners are bearing the cost for ev stations or electricity, I think timeshare owners are subsidizing the hotel operations of Marriott.
 
The electrical usage of an EV charging station per day is likely far lower than the jacuzzi pump. My guess is a small number of guests get in one each day but the presence of a jacuzzi may be an important benefit to some. I am not sure I understand the "subsidizing" Marriott line of thought. All of the amenities are paid for by maintenance fees, EV chargers being just one.
 
Even if a L2 station ran 24 hours per day (impossible because of downtime due to unplugging and plugging in a car, but ok for assumption purposes), assuming a high cost electricity state like CA where service averages about 23c/kwh, and assuming a MAX L2 service of 12kw (for comparison sake, my 2017 Leaf that I used to own had a max of 6.6kw capacity; most of Chargepoint's units run at <=7.8kw, yada yada yada)...

24 x .23 x 12 = ~$66/day. With actual kw capacity of both the charging station or the car being likely lower than 12kw (let's say 6.6kw for argument's sake), it is probably more like 24 x .23 x 6.6 = ~$36/day if it were to run 24/7 which is unlikely. For a Marriott resort with more than 100 units, we are talking about less than $1/day per station per unit.

Negligible IMHO. And by the way, if you start charging for power, then you'd likely have to link up with a 3rd party service like blink, evgo or chargepoint that will charge you for the service -- so you would not get your full money back anyway. There are ways to manually control the station, but then you are using your own manpower to regulate the station usage which costs money too...
 
Totally agree with this as far as there are many things I do not use at a resort than undoubtedly some (many) do. In a week at Branson or Legends Edge I cited earlier, I might use 75 kwH of electricity including topping up for the return home. So, probably even in California, < $25.

To me, amenities are shared between all visitors. So, it averages off and I don't want to see more nickel and dime charges. Maybe you don't use chargers but use the JW pool/spa at DSV1. I don't, yet, MF is quite a bit for that line item, why should I have to pay? Maybe I don't use the exercise rooms. I certainly never use their probably expensive cable channels. Etc. I am quite certain this FAR more than offsets the "free" electricity. I will start being picky about all the items I don't use if others start being picky about items I do use. :)

I don't think there is a difference between electric usage for my car and amenity usage. By using the gym, you are causing the equipment to break down sooner and needing to be replaced, which raises my MF. Maybe you should be billed for the electric cost you use for your room for AC, maybe I use less. Why should I have to pay for your electricity costs?

In Branson, I charge at Branson Landing when down there as well ("free" level 2). In Palm Desert, there are chargers across the street practically from DSV that are free and a bunch all around town too.

I think for now at least, I'd be surprised if the annual cost per TS unit was even $1 (for charging electricity use fee). Would be interesting to see an overall stat, but I think it's going to equate to pennies on MF. At some point in the future, this will of course change and maybe then it does deserve looking into.
The difference between the amenities you choose not to use, and the EV charging is that those other amenities are available for anyone to use, while charging is an amenity available for use by only a select few. As Dioxide notes, you can get your car charged but he can't get his gas tank topped off.

Everyone will have their preferences and resorts will always offer a broad spectrum that won't be preferred or used by all. But they are available to all. (No, don't argue we could all go buy e-vehicles.)

This would also mean there is no difference between the electric for your car or the gas for mine? Where are the fuel pumps so I can fill up?
 
Emost of Chargepoint's units run at <=7.8kw, yada yada yada)...
Not sure you took into account commercial services use 3 phase power, you take one leg of the 3 phase to get 208VAC. And most commercial chargepoints use split connections so when two people charge you get 1/2 power (about 3.6-3.9 kW) which doubles the time on the charger. My solution is to jump my Chevy on Tesla Destination chargers and avoid the Chargepoints, my Chevy and I thank you Mr. Musk.
 
The difference between the amenities you choose not to use, and the EV charging is that those other amenities are available for anyone to use, while charging is an amenity available for use by only a select few. As Dioxide notes, you can get your car charged but he can't get his gas tank topped off.

Everyone will have their preferences and resorts will always offer a broad spectrum that won't be preferred or used by all. But they are available to all. (No, don't argue we could all go buy e-vehicles.)

Ok, so, I accept that. But it doesn't change the main facts, the amount will be <$1/year for a weeks MF (I provided the calculation in previous post), not worth worrying about it (for now). But someday, sure. People like to imagine how much is being "lost" to this charging but it's wildly overstated. Though a 6 hour charge is hardly the same experience as a 5 minute fueling up for a gas car, and I would wager it's much harder to put in and get all the licenses and resources for a gas fueling station. And I doubt the resorts want long cables stretched across the grass or sidewalks to trip someone when EV owners do show up at a resort. As Dioxide also noted, he didn't see many charging users. Exactly! I am sure it's spotty, but, unlikely to exceed 1 user/52 weeks per unit at this time.

This is not an unusual thing for now. For those not owning EV cars, likely most of you commenting, workplaces are putting them in, allowing EV owners to charge for free. Also allowing charging off 110v/220v outlets even if they do not put in a charger, cities are putting them in and allowing charging. Do some workers complain? Sure, but it hasn't changed the fact for the most part. Some people have long commputes and in many esp. rural places there simply are no chargers to be used. Harley Davidson has free fast chargers. Many dealerships allow free charging, even with competitor cars. My local coop has a free charger for use, you can likely understand why they might want to encourage ownership as a power company.... It's all likely to encourage EV ownership. I would think and expect (with zero facts) that California state and city/county levels at a minimum have some sort of incentive/program/directives to put these things in. I doubt all that infrastructure will be free once EVs (if EVs) become more popular. But all is not great on the EV side necessarily, prices for charging along highways vary WIDELY, way more than gas varies as there is little competition. I can charge my car along the highway in my state and get 50kwH for maybe $5. But if I go to Arkansas and charge from the same company, over $20. A small portion of that is electric rates, most isn't. The airports I use all have free chargers, you park in their garage and charge while, out of town. This is not to justify free MVCI charging, it's to point out that as a nation, there is a pattern here for now in trying to encourage more EV ownership.

Again, I have never said it shouldn't be charged (ever), it should at some point. It's just not worth worrying about for now, getting people worked up over a few cents a year in MF. Imaginations can run wild and with the price of gas these days, I am sure there will be some "envy". This country has made some movement towards encouraging ownership, I don't think that's a bad thing. But we all know when/if EV's become a significant percentage of car sales, money will end up being made on charging at that point. It just isn't now. As always, we'll be lured in by "free" or cheap stuff, and once enough people go for it, then they rake us over the coals. Which is why I charge my car off my home solar system. I spend (allowing percentage of use of original cost of the system less incentives) about $100 a year fueling my car. But for now, it's a hassle when going on long trips. I accept that hassle as an adventure since for the rest of the year, I don't spend any time at a gas station. For many, it's a no go.

The OP was about EV chargers and (eventually) MF. I just want to put the actual electricity costs into perspective. Some of the early posters have also posted (elsewhere) many times that they also do not wish for all the amenities to be part of MF either, so, was also partially responding to that. For example, activities. I don't use these agreements with hotels, the one I am most familiar with (DSV1) is actually at least a real amount of annual MF. Yes, anyone could use it but it's part of the ongoing discussion in many threads here about MF and how to cut costs. Whether charging, certain amenities, etc. it's a valid discussion but for me, I'd start with the more expensive items is what I am trying to communicate.
 
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The electrical usage of an EV charging station per day is likely far lower than the jacuzzi pump. My guess is a small number of guests get in one each day but the presence of a jacuzzi may be an important benefit to some. I am not sure I understand the "subsidizing" Marriott line of thought. All of the amenities are paid for by maintenance fees, EV chargers being just one.
What I mean by timeshare owners “subsidizing” the cost of amenities for Marriott hotel operations occurs when a timeshare owner rents their unit to Marriott who subsequently rents those units for several thousands of dollars more than they paid the individual owner I have no problem with a willing seller and a willing buyer. However, all the timeshare owners, not just the week that Marriott obtained, are paying for those hotel amenities and the additional staffing required to serve the hotel guests. A timeshare weeks owner has one cleaning fee. A points owner may reserve less than a week but they pay for those extra costs through the “skim.” There could be 7 hotel guests come and go during that week. Who pays those extra expenses? Ev charging, at the present time, is a very minor expense. I am surprised by the intensity of feelings about who pays for ev charging as if only timeshare owners are using them. Marriott resorts are occupied by many hotel guests. There are many expenses that timeshare owners are paying on behalf of Marriott hotel operations. MVC reaps much profit beyond the operations fees that owners pay. There is transparency when ther is an additional expense for owners to pay. If there is profit to be had, it will be hidden from sight so timeshare owners will bicker with each other. Even though I find value and enjoyment from my ownership in Marriott timeshares, the relationship feels more like a tenant than an owner.
 
This would also mean there is no difference between the electric for your car or the gas for mine? Where are the fuel pumps so I can fill up?
I know your response is a little Devil's advocate, but would you want fuel pumps on site at Grande Vista? Where? You want the smell from spills while you're hanging out on your balcony (I mean, the pot smoke is bad enough! :))

There is far less infrastructure required to set up a charging station, not to mention the local environmental issues associated with gas/diesel installations.

As Steve said above, this is a complete non-issue cost-wise right now and for the short-term (3-5 years) future.
 
Ok, so, I accept that. But it doesn't change the main facts, the amount will be <$1/year for a weeks MF (I provided the calculation in previous post), not worth worrying about it (for now). But someday, sure. People like to imagine how much is being "lost" to this charging but it's wildly overstated. Though a 6 hour charge is hardly the same experience as a 5 minute fueling up for a gas car, and I would wager it's much harder to put in and get all the licenses and resources for a gas fueling station. And I doubt the resorts want long cables stretched across the grass or sidewalks to trip someone when EV owners do show up at a resort. As Dioxide also noted, he didn't see many charging users. Exactly! I am sure it's spotty, but, unlikely to exceed 1 user/52 weeks per unit at this time.

This is not an unusual thing for now. For those not owning EV cars, likely most of you commenting, workplaces are putting them in, allowing EV owners to charge for free. Also allowing charging off 110v/220v outlets even if they do not put in a charger, cities are putting them in and allowing charging. Do some workers complain? Sure, but it hasn't changed the fact for the most part. Some people have long commputes and in many esp. rural places there simply are no chargers to be used. Harley Davidson has free fast chargers. Many dealerships allow free charging, even with competitor cars. My local coop has a free charger for use, you can likely understand why they might want to encourage ownership as a power company.... It's all likely to encourage EV ownership. I would think and expect (with zero facts) that California state and city/county levels at a minimum have some sort of incentive/program/directives to put these things in. I doubt all that infrastructure will be free once EVs (if EVs) become more popular. But all is not great on the EV side necessarily, prices for charging along highways vary WIDELY, way more than gas varies as there is little competition. I can charge my car along the highway in my state and get 50kwH for maybe $5. But if I go to Arkansas and charge from the same company, over $20. A small portion of that is electric rates, most isn't. The airports I use all have free chargers, you park in their garage and charge while, out of town. This is not to justify free MVCI charging, it's to point out that as a nation, there is a pattern here for now in trying to encourage more EV ownership.

Again, I have never said it shouldn't be charged (ever), it should at some point. It's just not worth worrying about for now, getting people worked up over a few cents a year in MF. Imaginations can run wild and with the price of gas these days, I am sure there will be some "envy". This country has made some movement towards encouraging ownership, I don't think that's a bad thing. But we all know when/if EV's become a significant percentage of car sales, money will end up being made on charging at that point. It just isn't now. As always, we'll be lured in by "free" or cheap stuff, and once enough people go for it, then they rake us over the coals. Which is why I charge my car off my home solar system. I spend (allowing percentage of use of original cost of the system less incentives) about $100 a year fueling my car. But for now, it's a hassle when going on long trips. I accept that hassle as an adventure since for the rest of the year, I don't spend any time at a gas station. For many, it's a no go.

The OP was about EV chargers and (eventually) MF. I just want to put the actual electricity costs into perspective. Some of the early posters have also posted (elsewhere) many times that they also do not wish for all the amenities to be part of MF either, so, was also partially responding to that. For example, activities. I don't use these agreements with hotels, the one I am most familiar with (DSV1) is actually at least a real amount of annual MF. Yes, anyone could use it but it's part of the ongoing discussion in many threads here about MF and how to cut costs. Whether charging, certain amenities, etc. it's a valid discussion but for me, I'd start with the more expensive items is what I am trying to communicate.
I still believe that HOAs should not be putting in "amenities" that only a minute fraction of owners can utilize, and pass the cost on to everyone else. I get that this may be a more widely used, and even necessary, utility in he future.

If the current users are paying for the real cost, install plus energy, I have no issues. (I haven't seen yet what the actual install cost is.)
 
I don't like that the EV charging is done in a parking spot that is right up front like a disabled spot. People who are charging their cars shouldn't be also taking the prime parking spots.
 
Lots of smart comments and lots to think about
For the Marriott Hotels - it is about rates/profit/perks - add more/different perks and folks will use their dollars to vote - not a big issue for me
The thread about Marriot renting timeshare units is interesting but would really have to follow the dollars - someone/something owns every unit and should be paying the MF for that unit - what they rent for and who makes the profit is not really germain to the topic of the basic running cost of the "resort" effect by the perk of free EV charging (and all the other costs) and the passing through those costs to the owners via MF. The question here is how do we as owners affect the control of those costs via the BOD. Everyone should be able to look at the budget of their owned unit resort and if they don't like the line items get in touch with the board. This thread made me more interesting in taking that time. I am not sure the pure DP point owners have that ability as their costs are a amalgamation of multiple resorts and boards so... To that point my average MF/point is .45 and the DP MF/point is .62. Is that relate do owners having more say on cost control?
Lastly I think EV charging is a penny issue - one is not bad but as the number of pennies goes up it becomes real dollars.
Lets say there are 100 units and 52 wks so 5200 stays - we now have about 3% EV cars so lets say that there are 156 week stays with an EV and the charge cost for 1 ev is $25/wk that is $3900 additional cost for MF or 0.75 added to each MF. Not a big number but as the EV goes up and the cost of electricity goes up it has an effect on the bottom line. The way to control cost is to be worried about every expense - lots of little ones add up. So 5044 folks are subsitizing 156 people with a perk. I would say that once a perk is started it is hard to kill it off so .... as the EV numbers increase ..... Free EV charging (not the station but the electricity) needs to be stopped now before it becomes the standard. For those that put this in the pot as a basic part of unit ownership I would disagree - TV/Internet are part of a living area and expected. Hot tubs ect are communal resort items - we all use some but not all of those things every time we visit. Fueling your vehicle is not part of that deal - whether be gas, diesel, av gas, or electricity.
 
I know your response is a little Devil's advocate, but would you want fuel pumps on site at Grande Vista? Where? You want the smell from spills while you're hanging out on your balcony (I mean, the pot smoke is bad enough! :))
I was thinking more of a voucher system so I could just fill up at the Wawa. No mess, no smell. :D
 
I agree on the close spot issue -- most EV chargers are intentionally placed away from the best spots so they are not "ICEd" out by other cars (Internal Combustion Engine cars). In some cases, electrical access is only available near a building, and so they end up in close spots.

I have been at Crystal Shores the past week. They have two chargers, one Tesla and one generic. I have seen both used each day, with at least 3 Teslas and one non-Tesla EV on property. My guess is that I will use $10 max electricity over the course of the week. As an amenity that not all hotels or resorts have, it may make resorts that offer them more in demand, rentals higher, etc. (some of which should go to owner/renters, or benefit them in more valuable trades or sales). For most it EV owners, it is mostly a convenience, as the supercharger network is much faster.
 
As an amenity that not all hotels or resorts have, it may make resorts that offer them more in demand, rentals higher, etc. (some of which should go to owner/renters, or benefit them in more valuable trades or sales).
Now you are just trying too hard. ;-)
 
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