Equivest bankruptcy at Bluebeard's Castle

[Jennie]

I just received the following message by Email. Since I do not own at the Castle, I am not a member of the Yahoo group where the details are apparently posted. Can anyone provide more information.

As read on http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bluebeards/

Here's the message:
-"Equivest St. Thomas, Inc. filed for bankruptcy a week ago Monday.

This is the way FF, now Wydham, has chosen to avoid financial responsibility in their fight with the HOA's at Bluebeards Castle. Oh the tangled web of business anymore.

 

[timeos2]

No surprise. The owners needed to give some too

I just received the following message by Email. Since I do not own at the Castle, I am not a member of the Yahoo group where the details are apparently posted. Can anyone provide more information.

As read on http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bluebeards/

Here's the message:
-"Equivest St. Thomas, Inc. filed for bankruptcy a week ago Monday.

This is the way FF, now Wydham, has chosen to avoid financial responsibility in their fight with the HOA's at Bluebeards Castle. Oh the tangled web of business anymore.

I know it was hard for the Board/Association at Blue Beards Castle to accept but they had the best offer they were going to get when over $12 million was on the table from Fairfield. Unfortunately they didn't want to compromise and take maybe 50-75% of what they felt was owed and fought instead. Now they may end up with nothing or at least far less than the the $12 million and still face the needs to renovate and improve the resort. Sometimes you just have to swallow hard and take whats there rather than go for everything possible.

I also see a similar disaster shaping up at Summer Bay, LV where the Board has done a great job, perhaps not perfect, that is now threatened to be nixed by the owners. I hope they realize that the option may be much worse than the potentially flawed agreement they are seemingly heading toward turning down. Compromise and sharing the wealth are necessary if agreements are going to work. Your stance may be 100% correct but the cahnces of enforcing it very low in the courts and with a well financed foe.

 

[Bill4728]

Here is a little more info from street talk

ST. THOMAS: In the ongoing saga of the Bluebeard Castle HOAs vs Equivest/Fairfield Resorts (now Wyndham VO), which has been dragging along for several years now, it looks like Wyndham has followed through on its latest threat to bring things to a close.

Equivest St. Thomas, Inc., filed in the VI Bankruptcy court July 3, 2007. Case No. 07-30011. Guess who is their biggest creditor? Wyndham at $12.5M. All others? Under $50,000 each at most.

Says one disgusted Bluebeard owner: “Power play? You go figure… Let’s keep straight that Equivest St. Thomas was bought by Fairfield which was part of Cendant which is now Wyndham. Connect the dots? One would think.”

Well, that’s one way to get out of ongoing litigation and the expenses thereof. I understand that Fairfield has its own side to the story, but it all kind of reminds me of the way Epic Resorts did business, which leaves an unsavory smell…

So Equivest is bankrupt because they owe 12 million dollars to Wyndham ( the owner of equivest)

 

[ausman]

As an interestered observer these past few years I must be missing something.

Didn't Fairfield assume the Equivest debt and obligations.

Can someone explain why a shell of a corporation filing bankruptcy would matter in the slightest.

It may look good in the press but legally I don't see it matters.

 

[timeos2]

What you see is not what you get

Like so many things corporate who knows what they have combined, split off, maintained as a wholly owned subsidiary - it can be any type of mumbo jumbo that can cover their rear ends.

In any case they have maintained a company called Equivest - here is the website

It may be a game but it's a costly one to the owners and guess who has the deep pockets to wait them out? That original offer now sounds better and better as time goes by but it may not even be available anymore. Why would FF pay 12 million now when they may be able to pay little or nothing. There are a litany of bad decisions all around this resort and it isn't getting better.

 

[JudyS]

...Can someone explain why a shell of a corporation filing bankruptcy would matter in the slightest.

It may look good in the press but legally I don't see it matters.

I really don't understand the situation. But, off the top of my head, my guess is that Wyndham forced Bluebeard's Castle into bankruptcy because doing so would either reduce Wyndham's obligations to the owners there, or would allow Wyndham to seize some of the assets that would otherwise belong to the owners (which I suppose is more-or-less the same thing.)

John, can you fill us in here as to what the owner/Wyndham dispute was over?

 

[ausman]

Like so many things corporate who knows what they have combined, split off, maintained as a wholly owned subsidiary - it can be any type of mumbo jumbo that can cover their rear ends.

I

Agreed,

However from what we seem to know Fairfield aka Wyndham ( having purchased the name essencially) assumed the debt and obligations of the Equivest entities, what ever they were.

I wonder what the Bluebeard's Castle legal response will be. If not outright derision, as they must have weighted the offers and ultimatum, I could imagine phrases from Corp Law I, such as lifting the corporate veil.

As I said, an interestered observer only but it does strike me as a little strange.

 

[timeos2]

A readers digest version

John, can you fill us in here as to what the owner/Wyndham dispute was over?

As a real short summary the original developer of Bluebeards Castle used the owners maintenance funds to build other resorts, run his hotels, took insurance money that rightfully belonged to the Bluebeards resort and the resort fell into disrepair. None of this was under FF or Equivest watch. The owners had a long battle to have the developer removed as management, and won a sizable award of misappropriated fees that was supposed to be resolved but the developer sold out and Equivest stepped in as the new management. But the money never got paid - I don't know if the award was challenged or what happened. Then Fairfield bought out the Equivest system, some say taking on the debts - including the money due to Bluebeards. (As I say this is a rough summary and not meant to represent all the hardships and battles the owners at BB went through. 99% were the fault of a crooked developer who then passed the issue on to those who came after).

After FF came on the scene they offered a major influx of funds - somewhere between 12 and 15 million dollars - to upgrade the resort and to become the marketer on site. They were also to be the management company. There was some hanky panky with the votes for the Board of Directors (I'm saying it lightly but it was a very serious matter and was not handled well at all by FF) and in the end rather than having a majority of pro FF Board members they ended up in the minority. They ended up saying that the offer of 12-15 million was it - they weren't going to pay anymore. The Board felt the number should be something more like 20-25 million and held out. (Again there were other factors such as management control and how the money could be spent - but the bottom line was the two sides couldn't agree on a number) Then FF started to play hardball. They only paid for the units they controlled (sort of like Wastegate at Bluetree in Orlando) and managed those themselves. The remainder of the resort is basically broke, certainly can't afford the desperately needed repairs and upgrades and is suing FF for the 20+ million they feel is owed. The bankruptcy is an attempt by FF/Equivest to wipe out the debt no matter what the number is. And the war continues as the resort suffers. 5 years and counting.

What a mess.

 

[johnmfaeth]

A slight correction, no award of damages was ever won by the owners. They rejected a settlement offer (Timesharing Today indicated a couple of years back in a cover story that it was 17 Million).

That case is on the calendar in the Virgin islands courts and is coming up soon for initial discovery, etc. Expect appeals if lost by Wyndham/FF. A collectable award could be years away.

Sad all around....

 

[kdrew]

Wrong again John...........

I know it was hard for the Board/Association at Blue Beards Castle to accept but they had the best offer they were going to get when over $12 million was on the table from Fairfield. Unfortunately they didn't want to compromise and take maybe 50-75% of what they felt was owed and fought instead. Now they may end up with nothing or at least far less than the the $12 million and still face the needs to renovate and improve the resort. Sometimes you just have to swallow hard and take whats there rather than go for everything possible.

:whoopie:
Time to correct a few people here. There was never $12M on the table from Fairfield. But let us just say there was an offer of $12M. That would not be even close to what is needed to fix the resort. f course owners like John would like to just settle for pennies on the dollar and then send out a special assessment to owners to pay for all the repairs that need to be done so then Fairfield/Equivest/Cendant/Wyndham/who freakin' knows or cares can then go and sell the "Fixed up" resort and pocket a tremendous profit.

BTW- if you were owed $100, would you take $1? If so, can you loan me $100?!?!?!?!

I will further correct people below so read on!!!

Ken
owner since 1991 and Board member since 2002

 

[kdrew]

As a real short summary the original developer of Bluebeards Castle used the owners maintenance funds to build other resorts, run his hotels, took insurance money that rightfully belonged to the Bluebeards resort and the resort fell into disrepair. None of this was under FF or Equivest watch. The owners had a long battle to have the developer removed as management, and won a sizable award of misappropriated fees that was supposed to be resolved but the developer sold out and Equivest stepped in as the new management. But the money never got paid - I don't know if the award was challenged or what happened. Then Fairfield bought out the Equivest system, some say taking on the debts - including the money due to Bluebeards. (As I say this is a rough summary and not meant to represent all the hardships and battles the owners at BB went through. 99% were the fault of a crooked developer who then passed the issue on to those who came after).

Another correction here- the original developer is at fault for many things like poor mamangement of the resort, under insured, using insurance money to buy another resort, spending money at these resorts, etc.

Keeep in mind that Equivest and Fairfield also got caught with their "hands in the cookie jar" as well. They also continued to do a variety of questionable, dare I say "illegal", things.

NO AWARD WAS EVER GIVEN TO OWNERS...EVER!!!!!!

After FF came on the scene they offered a major influx of funds - somewhere between 12 and 15 million dollars - to upgrade the resort and to become the marketer on site. They were also to be the

WRONG AGAIN HERE JOHN- FF offered owners $4.25M plus a 10 year management contract with their fee based on the size of the budget (i.e. higher budget & fees meant a higher fee to them to run the resort!). There is one small issue neglected here............FF had reports detailing, at that time, that the resort needed at least $10M of repairs. Nice offer, huh?

The only upgrades done were to their own property NOT owners units and they were mainly safety related and things that had to be done. Trust me, FF does not fix things unless they have to! Wake up people in timeshare land. The developer is out to make money and does not give a s#@t about "Joe Timeshare owner. Read on for more corrections........."

management company. There was some hanky panky with the votes for the Board of Directors (I'm saying it lightly but it was a very serious matter and was not handled well at all by FF) and in the end rather than having a majority of pro FF Board members they ended up in the minority. They ended up saying that the offer of 12-15 million was it

There was no hanky panky with votes! Owners backed an owner slate and we elected a totally owner controlled Board. We then were able to start looking into our finanaces and, to date, FF/Wyndham/Equivest has still never turned over all the financial records.....hummmm...wonder why??? FF did offer $10M and that was turned down since that would not cover the costs of the resort repairs and we pressed on to get engineering reports and fiscal reports to determine what we are owed. This included multi-millions of developer maintenance fees that had never been paid.......

- they weren't going to pay anymore. The Board felt the number should be something more like 20-25 million and held out. (Again there were other factors such as management control and how the money could be spent - but the bottom line was the two sides couldn't agree on a number) Then FF started to play hardball. They only paid for the units they controlled (sort of like Wastegate at Bluetree in Orlando) and managed those themselves. The remainder of the resort is basically broke, certainly can't afford the desperately needed repairs and upgrades and is suing FF for the 20+ million they feel is owed. The bankruptcy is an attempt by FF/Equivest to wipe out the debt no matter what the number is. And the war continues as the resort suffers. 5 years and counting.

What a mess.

John- do you work for FF or just kiss the ground they walk on? First off, there has only been one mediation that was close to settlement but lawyers from both sides and the mediator dropped the ball and onwards we went. The supposed amount was $16-$18M depending on whom you talk to. That fell through. Since that time, we have asked to meet with FF/Wyndham/Equivest/WTF and they have refused to meet. They refused binding arbitration from the start............ask yourself "why?". We all know why- they want to punish Castle owners and they are trying everything they can try to smoke us out. This includes financially supporting a small group of FF sympathetic owners and actually sending out campaign literature using FF's postal meter. They have placed FF execs on two of the 4 Boards but the USVI judicial system has told them that they cannot decide or be involved with litigation issues. this includes the small number of owners they actually appointed to the Boards!

So now what? Bankruptcy? Nice try. They claim that they are in debt. Great. I can't wait to force them from Chapter 11 to Chapter 7 and then we liquidate their other resorts on island (the Beach Club and Elysian) to pay for our repairs. We can make a VERY strong argument for a Trustee which means they no longer run their own show. Timeshare history, my friends!

The fight is long from over and owners will win and prove to all the FF/Wyndham lovers that your beloved timeshare developer is not a good as you think they are. Get on your own Boards and see how they spend your money on their sister companies and pad their profits. Get an independant management company and wathc your fees go down.........


Ken

 

[kdrew]

so what would you do?!?!?!

FF/Equivest to wipe out the debt no matter what the number is. And the war continues as the resort suffers. 5 years and counting.

What a mess.

So what to do? Take pennies and assess owners? Stand up and fight for what is right? The overwhelming support from owners is to fight for what is FAIR. Not the max amount but what it will cost to fix the resort.

FF/Wyndham is letting their own buidlings on the resort go into disrepair and have not a care in the world if owners are effected. Their attitude is "we do not care about timeshare owners so tough luck. We are a big corporation and we will do what we want"

Sometimes people actually stand up to the bully and work towards what is right. Corporate America is a machine but the machine can be turned off if enough people care to stand up for what is right and fair. Fair is binding arbitration in October of 2003. Fair is not punishing owners for their mistake. Fair is not offering $4.25M and knowing that it would cost at least $10M to fix the resort thus the owners would have had to pick up the slack.

Time for bed...........

Ken

 

[timeos2]

So what to do? Take pennies and assess owners? Stand up and fight for what is right? The overwhelming support from owners is to fight for what is FAIR. Not the max amount but what it will cost to fix the resort.

FF/Wyndham is letting their own buidlings on the resort go into disrepair and have not a care in the world if owners are effected. Their attitude is "we do not care about timeshare owners so tough luck. We are a big corporation and we will do what we want"

Sometimes people actually stand up to the bully and work towards what is right. Corporate America is a machine but the machine can be turned off if enough people care to stand up for what is right and fair. Fair is binding arbitration in October of 2003. Fair is not punishing owners for their mistake. Fair is not offering $4.25M and knowing that it would cost at least $10M to fix the resort thus the owners would have had to pick up the slack.

Time for bed...........

Ken

Ken - Sadly it most likely will be the owners who end up saddled with the costs. I've been on the side that was right & the "winner" yet ended up with those pennies on the dollars you mentioned. For various reasons - bankruptcy, legal technicalities, judges whim, whatever - the big guy gets the breaks. While it's never pleasant sometimes you come out ahead taking what you can get sooner & moving on rather than fighting a costly battle only to end up with another penny more. As I've said my sympathy lies with the owners but reality says this isn't turning out as they hope it will. I applaud your stand for whats right in any case while wondering if it's just a bit too rigid to see other options.

 

[kdrew]

Sometimes, you have to make a stand........

Ken - Sadly it most likely will be the owners who end up saddled with the costs. I've been on the side that was right & the "winner" yet ended up with those pennies on the dollars you mentioned. For various reasons - bankruptcy, legal technicalities, judges whim, whatever - the big guy gets the breaks. While it's never pleasant sometimes you come out ahead taking what you can get sooner & moving on rather than fighting a costly battle only to end up with another penny more. As I've said my sympathy lies with the owners but reality says this isn't turning out as they hope it will. I applaud your stand for whats right in any case while wondering if it's just a bit too rigid to see other options.

Several options still exists but let us face it- if America never stood up and made a stand, we may all be speaking with different accents today. Bottom line, some people lead, some follow. Some take a stand and do what is right, some don't. You never know what will happen if you do not try. Castle owners are wiling to try unlike most timeshare owners who seem to allow the developer to do whatever they wish.

Agree to disagree is OK by me. I respect your view. I just do not agree with it. Time will tell....... Have a great weekend!


Ken

 

[johnmfaeth]

Hi Ken,

First, good luck to all Castle owners in the fight for Equivest compensation.

As per Timesharing Today's article of a year or two back, the settlement discussions of 16-18 MM also included several current board members stepping down and new elections occurring as FF considered them impossible to work with going forward.

Was this correct? Why is that not discussed in your posts?

Sounds like that may be a breach of duty to the other owners if a few board members put their own desires to remain in power ahead of the financial nterests of the owners they represent.

Please comment. This is not an attack, just a desire to learn your perspective on what is rarely discussed.

PS. If a settlement and special assessment would stem the flood of delinquencies long term and permit necessary repairs, may not be so bad. It's like the guy who gets killed by a cement truck putting "but I had the right of way" on his tombstone.

PPS. Currently, no resort in the entire caribbean has the number of units available for $1 resale as the Castle.

 

[bogey21]

The fight is long from over and owners will win and prove to all the FF/Wyndham lovers that your beloved timeshare developer is not a good as you think they are. Get on your own Boards and see how they spend your money on their sister companies and pad their profits. Get an independant management company and wathc your fees go down.........

GOOD LUCK!!

GEORGE

 

[JudyS]

As a real short summary the original developer of Bluebeards Castle used the owners maintenance funds to build other resorts, run his hotels, took insurance money that rightfully belonged to the Bluebeards resort and the resort fell into disrepair....

[I snipped the description of legal battles, Equivest & Fairfield role, etc.] Thanks for the explanation. Wow, it does sound like a mess!

:whoopie:
Time to correct a few people here. There was never $12M on the table from Fairfield. But let us just say there was an offer of $12M....
Another correction here- the original developer is at fault for many things like poor mamangement of the resort, under insured, using insurance money to buy another resort, spending money at these resorts, etc....
WRONG AGAIN HERE JOHN- FF offered owners $4.25M plus a 10 year management contract with their fee based on the size of the budget (i.e. higher budget & fees meant a higher fee to them to run the resort!). There is one small issue neglected here............FF had reports detailing, at that time, that the resort needed at least $10M of repairs........

John mentioned the problems with the original developer in his post. I didn't see him as siding with FF, just as trying to answer my question about the nature of the dispute. Explaining the dispute required describing what FF's position was as well as the owners' position.

I am getting confused -- if there was an offer of $12 million but not from Fairfield, then where did the $12 million offer come from? And, did FF offer $4.25M or $10M? Did the resort need $10M of repairs, or more than $10M of repairs?

It sounds like the original developer was an outright criminal. Since this resort is in the US Virgin Islands, wasn’t it under US jurisdiction? I’m surprised that the original developer could get away with so much fraud for so long. I’ve heard of that happening at other resorts, but usually not in the US.

I can’t tell how much Equivest/FF/Wyndham is at fault, and how much the fault is the original developer’s, but certainly the owners are getting a raw deal. Can they just hand the whole thing over to Wyndham and walk away? Or, is Wyndham trying to stick them with the repair bill?

 

[Tia]

[I snipped the description of legal battles, Equivest & Fairfield role, etc.] ................ Can they just hand the whole thing over to Wyndham and walk away? Or, is Wyndham trying to stick them with the repair bill?

We own at the resort in question ,20 years, as well as Bluebeards Beach Club. For your question Judy about handing the whole thing over to Wyndham, this is not an option that I know of . IMO Wydham has been passively pushing to leave owners with the whole bill . Wydham and past developers all counted profits gotten using unethical, sometimes illegal, and choke hold tactics.

It is my thought that even if Wydham was to take back all the deeded ts it would still be an unjust end for the little ts owners. l also wonder if the property due to location has much more $ value, in future development possibilities etc. than anyone admits.

 

[timeos2]

Several options still exists but let us face it- if America never stood up and made a stand, we may all be speaking with different accents

Ken - Also realize the British and others had to admit they lost and become allies or we'd still be fighting. Compromise sometimes is required. We can agree to have two views & as always I hope for the best possible outcome for the owners.

 

[kdrew]

Hi Ken,

First, good luck to all Castle owners in the fight for Equivest compensation.

As per Timesharing Today's article of a year or two back, the settlement discussions of 16-18 MM also included several current board members stepping down and new elections occurring as FF considered them impossible to work with going forward.

Was this correct? Why is that not discussed in your posts?

I mentioned this before. We did have a presumed agreement at that figure but both sides dropped the ball and it fell through. As for Board members stepping down, that has not happened although FF would have liked to get people like myself off the Board and place owners who are sympathetic to their company (like the current FF appointed president of the Beach Club whom Ff has given campaign money to to run against the current boards). FF considers anybody who does not share their views as a problem and thus would like them removed thus they continue to fight to appoint people even thought the bylaws do not allow it after 90% of the units have been sold.

Simply put- it takes two to tango and FF would rather sit than dance.....

Sounds like that may be a breach of duty to the other owners if a few board members put their own desires to remain in power ahead of the financial nterests of the owners they represent.

Please comment. This is not an attack, just a desire to learn your perspective on what is rarely discussed.

PS. If a settlement and special assessment would stem the flood of delinquencies long term and permit necessary repairs, may not be so bad. It's like the guy who gets killed by a cement truck putting "but I had the right of way" on his tombstone.

PPS. Currently, no resort in the entire caribbean has the number of units available for $1 resale as the Castle.

I ask you this- let's say you found a report that you had prepared told you that you needed $XXX to fix the resort and then you were offered $YYY and the diference between XXX and YYY was huge. Would you settle for that deal? Would you settle for that deal and send owners a bill for more work to be done and their already inflated fees?

A special assesment would drive the delinquency rates out of sight and basically kill the resort. Owners are not willing to pay to fix problems that the developer caused. The developers who own the liability.........

Timeshare history in the making. With no help from ARDA or major networks or publications, owners will make history and Wyndham should be very afraid because this will be a blueprint as to what it takes to beat the 900 lg. gorilla.:whoopie:

Hope this answers your questions. Thanks!

Ken

 

[kdrew]

Ken - Also realize the British and others had to admit they lost and become allies or we'd still be fighting. Compromise sometimes is required. We can agree to have two views & as always I hope for the best possible outcome for the owners.

It takes two to compromise and FF/Equivest/Wyndham do not want to play. We have no other options but to push forward. We played the game and lost a year back when we first started this excercise with FF. They made promises and then never followed through.

In time, perhaps they will see that working together is better but I have seen the underbelly of the timeshare world and it is not pretty......


Ken

 

[kdrew]

[I snipped the description of legal battles, Equivest & Fairfield role, etc.] Thanks for the explanation. Wow, it does sound like a mess!



John mentioned the problems with the original developer in his post. I didn't see him as siding with FF, just as trying to answer my question about the nature of the dispute. Explaining the dispute required describing what FF's position was as well as the owners' position.

I am getting confused -- if there was an offer of $12 million but not from Fairfield, then where did the $12 million offer come from? And, did FF offer $4.25M or $10M? Did the resort need $10M of repairs, or more than $10M of repairs?

It sounds like the original developer was an outright criminal. Since this resort is in the US Virgin Islands, wasn’t it under US jurisdiction? I’m surprised that the original developer could get away with so much fraud for so long. I’ve heard of that happening at other resorts, but usually not in the US.

I can’t tell how much Equivest/FF/Wyndham is at fault, and how much the fault is the original developer’s, but certainly the owners are getting a raw deal. Can they just hand the whole thing over to Wyndham and walk away? Or, is Wyndham trying to stick them with the repair bill?

There was never a $12M offer. FF did offer $4.25M and then several months later offered $10M. The resort needed more than $10M in repairs. Yes, the original developer was criminal but also there are indications that FF was not far behind. Let me just say that there are many options being considered by owners pending what FF/Wyndham does here. Do not be surprised when you hear about them.

And, YES, Wyndham is sticking it to owners. they will NOT even fix the property THEY OWN on the resort!! They have left the resort and refuse to fix anything! If a building collapses, they do not care. We have been told that point blank in not so many words!!

Ken

 

[johnmfaeth]

Hi Ken,

Good luck to all the Castle Owners in the fight...even 900 LB Gorilla's can trip and fall....

John

 

[JudyS]

There was never a $12M offer. FF did offer $4.25M and then several months later offered $10M. The resort needed more than $10M in repairs. Yes, the original developer was criminal but also there are indications that FF was not far behind. Let me just say that there are many options being considered by owners pending what FF/Wyndham does here. Do not be surprised when you hear about them.

And, YES, Wyndham is sticking it to owners. they will NOT even fix the property THEY OWN on the resort!! They have left the resort and refuse to fix anything! If a building collapses, they do not care. We have been told that point blank in not so many words!!

Ken

Thanks for the information. Do you have an estimate of how much it would cost to make the repairs? How many owners are there?

I second John M's wish of good luck.

There is no question that Fairfield/Wyndham is extremely unfriendly to owners. I made the proposal a week or so ago that the many timeshare owners who were being shafted by Wyndham should band together and buy stock to influence the company. Heck, if they didn't suceed, at least some of their money that Wyndham was ripping off would come back to them in the form of dividends! You can see the thread here.

 

[Jya-Ning]

Heck, if they didn't suceed, at least some of their money that Wyndham was ripping off would come back to them in the form of dividends!

Judy, I don't believe they pay divident.

Ken:

I wish you success. If not because all these class actions in the earlier year, we may still has no rescind period in TS.

This bankrupcy sounds like Eron. Where Wyndham is the parent company and own a lot of debt of the child company while child company may own the unsold units. So after bankrupcy, the parent company take over all the unsold inventories if it desired. They probably can do that for FF if they are so desired so they can create a new President Wynfham Club. On the other hand, if a judge believes it is just another eron, they basically throw whole Wyndham in.

Good Luck for you and for me.

Jya-Ning