Embarc News

[Bill4728]

A copy of email from Embarc about HGV MAX and a 50 times multiplier of Embarc points

As we notified you on April 13, HGV conducted two program changes on April 18, which are necessary to create one consistent, simplified points scale across all Club programs and provide the foundation for the launch of HGV Max to Embarc Members.
First, HGV adjusted the number of points allocated to an Embarc Member’s vacation ownership interest and the number of points required to make a reservation by a multiplier of 50. Hence, a Member’s ability to make reservations using their points within the Embarc Resorts Collection stays the same:

• For every 1 point in a Member’s or Embarc Passport Member’s account, the system multiplied it by 50 points. For example, if an Embarc Member was previously allocated 200 points annually, this allotment was increased to 10,000 points annually starting today.
• Points allocated to Embarc Members with membership in Extraordinary Escapes were also adjusted by the same amount across all Member tiers.
• Likewise, the number of points needed to make reservations were adjusted by the same amount.

Second, effective January 1, 2024, the Use Year for every Embarc Member account will be adjusted to begin on January 1 and run through December 31 of that same year.

• If a Member has unused 2023 points, they will be able to use them without penalty through December 31, 2024.
• Additionally, Members will continue to have the opportunity to bank points.

Please note that these adjustments do not impact your existing membership, your existing reservations, your voting rights, access to Embarc resorts or your Annual Resort Fees.
We appreciate your understanding as we work toward our goal of integrating these fantastic Club programs.

 

[Bill4728]

Here is the rest of the Email;


On April 13, an email was sent to all Embarc Members sharing some exciting changes to your Embarc membership. We are happy to announce that starting today, HGV Max membership is now available to all Embarc Members with a qualified purchase.

HGV Max is our new best-in-class membership program available through Extraordinary Escapes that is uniquely flexible to fit your specific vacation needs. When you become an HGV Max Member, not only will you enjoy access to more properties in more destinations, you’ll also enjoy special discounts across the Hilton portfolio of hotels and resorts, plus access to exclusive events like concerts, unique culinary experiences and more through our HGV Ultimate Access program.

 

[Bill4728]

So three things

1: Embarc owners can get into HGV MAX but you have to buy more points.
2: Your points will be increased by a factor of 50 So 200 pts become 10,000 points
3: All ownership points will expire on Dec 31 of each year and /But this years will not expire till Dec 2024

 

[Baledin]

Does anyone have any ideas on how they'll calculate maintenance fees for these new point totals? Embarc has been far cheaper on MF compared to my Diamond points but now I have 4x as many Embarc points and I'm afraid Hilton may price them accordingly. :\

 

[dioxide45]

Does anyone have any ideas on how they'll calculate maintenance fees for these new point totals? Embarc has been far cheaper on MF compared to my Diamond points but now I have 4x as many Embarc points and I'm afraid Hilton may price them accordingly. :\

Per the email, they multiplied the points by 50. That means each point should have only 1/50th of its previous per point fee.

 

[Baledin]

Per the email, they multiplied the points by 50. That means each point should have only 1/50th of its previous per point fee.

One would hope so, but I fear that won't be the case (I don't have much to back up that fear other than distrust of Timeshare companies).

 

[CanuckTravlr]

@Bill4728 Thanks for posting this. So now they have done some form of "equalization" of points with HGVC/HVC, as was done previously with HGVC, and Embarc owners can also buy into HGV Max, if they choose. The next big step/question, is whether they will be a stand-alone sub-system within HGVC, or become a more integrated part of HGVC with access to the legacy side of HGVC without a Max purchase. I hope it's the latter, and will then assume and hope there will also be reciprocal access for legacy HGVC owners to access Embarc properties, even if as some form of affiliate.

I will be staying at HGVC Whistler (formerly Embarc Whistler) in mid-May. One of my cousins is an owner there and he needed to use up some points from the pandemic, so is hosting a group of us cousins for 5 nights. We have discussed the implications of the "merger" and this will add to our discussion, I'm sure.

 

[NachoDaddy]

@Bill4728 Thanks for posting this. So now they have done some form of "equalization" of points with HGVC/HVC, as was done previously with HGVC, and Embarc owners can also buy into HGV Max, if they choose. The next big step/question, is whether they will be a stand-alone sub-system within HGVC, or become a more integrated part of HGVC with access to the legacy side of HGVC without a Max purchase. I hope it's the latter, and will then assume and hope there will also be reciprocal access for legacy HGVC owners to access Embarc properties, even if as some form of affiliate.

I will be staying at HGVC Whistler (formerly Embarc Whistler) in mid-May. One of my cousins is an owner there and he needed to use up some points from the pandemic, so is hosting a group of us cousins for 5 nights. We have discussed the implications of the "merger" and this will add to our discussion, I'm sure.

Reciprocal access between platforms is HGV Max. Just like Diamond owners, if you want to go to an HGVC resort (or an HGVC member wishes to go to an Embarc or Diamond resort) you have to join HGV Max. What the costs are for joining as an Embarc owner I do not know. If you do not join you will still have access to your Embarc resorts and will probably be known as an Embarc Legacy owner (Diamond owners who do not join HGV Max are known as Diamond Legacy owners).

 

[CanuckTravlr]

Does anyone have any ideas on how they'll calculate maintenance fees for these new point totals? Embarc has been far cheaper on MF compared to my Diamond points but now I have 4x as many Embarc points and I'm afraid Hilton may price them accordingly. :\

HGVC generally treats its owners pretty fairly (not counting sales weasels). For those of us in Canada and others outside the USA, they went an extra step to allow us to extend the time period for saving our points, when the borders and airspace closures impacted our ability to enter the US.

Also, when they adjusted the points for legacy HGVC owners to bring them into line with Diamond, there was no impact on maintenance fees. Other than normal inflation, the maintenance fees did not change. In any case, maintenance fees are based on expenses, plus improvements, and replacements, with formally audited financial statements. You can always calculate the MF/point, which will now be lower, but that is not the basis on which maintenance fees are calculated.

 

[Baledin]

HGVC generally treats its owners pretty fairly (not counting sales weasels). For those of us in Canada and others outside the USA, they went an extra step to allow us to extend the time period for saving our points, when the borders and airspace closures impacted our ability to enter the US.

Also, when they adjusted the points for legacy HGVC owners to bring them into line with Diamond, there was no impact on maintenance fees. Other than normal inflation, the maintenance fees did not change. In any case, maintenance fees are based on expenses, plus improvements, and replacements, with formally audited financial statements. You can always calculate the MF/point, which will now be lower, but that is not the basis on which maintenance fees are calculated.

Thank you, makes me feel a bit better. I think, for myself at least, it's the confusion on how MFs are calculated--I assumed they were based on number of points available.

 

[CanuckTravlr]

Reciprocal access between platforms is HGV Max. Just like Diamond owners, if you want to go to an HGVC resort (or an HGVC member wishes to go to an Embarc or Diamond resort) you have to join HGV Max. What the costs are for joining as an Embarc owner I do not know. If you do not join you will still have access to your Embarc resorts and will probably be known as an Embarc Legacy owner (Diamond owners who do not join HGV Max are known as Diamond Legacy owners).

Actually, that is not quite accurate, and we don't know how Embarc properties will be treated yet. HGV Max allows access between HGVC and HVC (formerly Diamond properties). Embarc was never a part of any of the Diamond trusts and was an outlier, due to their governance rules. What we do know is that they are being rebranded as Hilton Grand Vacation Club, not Hilton Vacation Club. So what they will have access to, and what reciprocation will apply (if any) outside Max, is still to be determined.

As far as I am aware, Diamond owners did not have access to Embarc pre-merger, and still don't. What access is provided to Embarc through a new potential HGV Max purchase was not specified in the email posted. I suspect it is yet to be determined.

 

[CanuckTravlr]

Thank you, makes me feel a bit better. I think, for myself at least, it's the confusion on how MFs are calculated--I assumed they were based on number of points available.

I'm a Canadian CPA, so that's an understandable confusion, and to add to it, the number of points you own does have some relationship to your maintenance fees. The more points you have, generally the higher the maintenance fees you pay. But it's all relative. The maintenance fees for your points are actually calculated based on your percentage fractional ownership in the property, which should be stated in your declaration. That fractional ownership has a set number of points assigned to it. Your fractional ownership hasn't changed, just the number of points associated with it. Hope that is clearer!

 

[echino]

Legacy HGVC ownership are deeded weeks at a home resort, and maintenance fees are the same for every week for the same unit size, regardless of the season or number of points.

Embarc is different, it's not based on deeded weeks, but instead based on points, similar to Worldmark or new Marriott points. Maintenance fees are charged per point, and the calculation is a lot more convoluted compared to weeks.

 

[dayooper]

Actually, that is not quite accurate, and we don't know how Embarc properties will be treated yet. HGV Max allows access between HGVC and HVC (formerly Diamond properties). Embarc was never a part of any of the Diamond trusts and was an outlier, due to their governance rules. What we do know is that they are being rebranded as Hilton Grand Vacation Club, not Hilton Vacation Club. So what they will have access to, and what reciprocation will apply (if any) outside Max, is still to be determined.

As far as I am aware, Diamond owners did not have access to Embarc pre-merger, and still don't. What access is provided to Embarc through a new potential HGV Max purchase was not specified in the email posted. I suspect it is yet to be determined.

Eh, we kinda do have an idea. @cd5 is a board member and has reported that outside access to Embarc (and vice versa) will be through Max and will require a purchase.

 

[PigsDad]

Eh, we kinda do have an idea. @cd5 is a board member and has reported that outside access to Embarc (and vice versa) will be through Max and will require a purchase.

So Embarc properties will now be new group of properties accessible via Max. I hate to even think this, but what is the possibility that HGV will tell existing Max members that to access the new group of properties, they need to make a new purchase / upgrade? That would be extremely slimy, but at this point, I wouldn't put it past them.

Kurt

 

[dayooper]

So Embarc properties will now be new group of properties accessible via Max. I hate to even think this, but what is the possibility that HGV will tell existing Max members that to access the new group of properties, they need to make a new purchase / upgrade? That would be extremely slimy, but at this point, I wouldn't put it past them.

Kurt

I have been really disappointed in how the DRI/HGVC merger has gone. The lack of transparency has been the worst issue, but even I don’t think they would stoop that low. Then again, I wouldn’t put anything past Apollo. Hopefully they have very little say, but I’m not so sure.

 

[dioxide45]

So what is a qualifying purchase? Buying more Embarc (wasn't it mostly sold out)? Buying HVC or even buying HGVC?

 

[dayooper]

So what is a qualifying purchase? Buying more Embarc (wasn't it mostly sold out)? Buying HVC or even buying HGVC?

Depends on where you want the best booking window. That will give you the normal booking window instead of 6 months. If an Embarc member bought a qualifying purchase through Embarc, they would have the normal Embarc booking window. If they bought HGVC, those points (and only those points) from that deed would give the standard HGVC booking window. Same with HVC/DRI points.

 

[GT75]

A copy of email from Embarc about HGV MAX

@cd5 @Bill4728 What are your thoughts?

 

[cd5]

No change for Embarc members who don't buy in. It's an exchange system to give access to Embarc/Hilton/Diamond. You can only reserve 6 months before the CHECK-OUT date. Existing terms for Embarc member reservations are 11 months out from CHECK-IN for 6 days or more, and 6 months out from CHECK-IN for 5 days or less.
So, someone in Max gets to reserve after Embarc members have already have made their choices. We (Embarc) generally have to reserve 11 months out (to the minute) at "peak & activity" seasons for most of the 9 resorts. Availability will not be there for those trying to exchange in.
If I was interested in going to Hilton I'd be better off buying something in Hilton, same thing for Embarc - if I wanted to go there, I get a resale membership, not Max.

 

[dayooper]

No change for Embarc members who don't buy in. It's an exchange system to give access to Embarc/Hilton/Diamond. You can only reserve 6 months before the CHECK-OUT date. Existing terms for Embarc member reservations are 11 months out from CHECK-IN for 6 days or more, and 6 months out from CHECK-IN for 5 days or less.
So, someone in Max gets to reserve after Embarc members have already have made their choices. We (Embarc) generally have to reserve 11 months out (to the minute) at "peak & activity" seasons for most of the 9 resorts. Availability will not be there for those trying to exchange in.
If I was interested in going to Hilton I'd be better off buying something in Hilton, same thing for Embarc - if I wanted to go there, I get a resale membership, not Max.

Thanks for the clarification. I appreciate you taking the time to let us know.

Seems like HGVC is just adding Embarc to Max to make it look like they are adding more resorts or even encouraging Legacy DRI members to upgrade to get access. All smoke and mirrors.

 

[CanuckTravlr]

Eh, we kinda do have an idea. @cd5 is a board member and has reported that outside access to Embarc (and vice versa) will be through Max and will require a purchase.

I have been following the comments by @cd5 . Unless I missed something, until her latest post above, I don't see anywhere that she indicated that outside access to Embarc would be through Max, other than perhaps for HGV/DRI owners. Since they were renaming Embarc as HGVC, it was speculated that there were two possibilities whenever any announcement was made, which was what I was referencing.

One possibility was that former Embarc and legacy HGVC locations would be part of the same system and Max would only be needed for access by both Embarc and HGVC legacy locations to HVC (former DRI) properties, and vice versa. The second possibility would be to keep the former Embarc locations as a separate subsystem, where their owners would need Max ownership (or resale purchases in the other systems) to access either HGV or other non-Embarc HGVC properties, and vice versa.

As it turns out, it seems that it's the second option that HGVC has decided to go with. I am very saddened by this decision. This concept all started with creating the Hilton Club tiers. Now it seems the whole system has been carved up into little enclaves. It has made the booking system and booking timelines complex, unwieldy, and inconsistent, especially when you add in the rules for Max and various elite levels.

Since I have no interest in paying for any more retail purchases, and I find limited value in elite privileges, I will certainly not be interested in Max. If I want access to Embarc, or specific HVC properties, I have other options. As @cd5 suggests, it will be simpler, more efficient, and less costly to simply purchase appropriate resales, or just use RCI or Hilton Hotels when available. I think HGV may ultimately find they have shot themselves in the foot with this approach, but I guess that remains to be seen. I at least know what I will be doing. Colour me disappointed with HGV!!

 

[dayooper]

I have been following the comments by @cd5 . Unless I missed something, until her latest post above, I don't see anywhere that she indicated that outside access to Embarc would be through Max, other than perhaps for HGV/DRI owners. Since they were renaming Embarc as HGVC, it was speculated that there were two possibilities whenever any announcement was made, which was what I was referencing.

One possibility was that former Embarc and legacy HGVC locations would be part of the same system and Max would only be needed for access by both Embarc and HGVC legacy locations to HVC (former DRI) properties, and vice versa. The second possibility would be to keep the former Embarc locations as a separate subsystem, where their owners would need Max ownership (or resale purchases in the other systems) to access either HGV or other non-Embarc HGVC properties, and vice versa.

As it turns out, it seems that it's the second option that HGVC has decided to go with. I am very saddened by this decision. This concept all started with creating the Hilton Club tiers. Now it seems the whole system has been carved up into little enclaves. It has made the booking system and booking timelines complex, unwieldy, and inconsistent, especially when you add in the rules for Max and various elite levels.

Since I have no interest in paying for any more retail purchases, and I find limited value in elite privileges, I will certainly not be interested in Max. If I want access to Embarc, or specific HVC properties, I have other options. As @cd5 suggests, it will be simpler, more efficient, and less costly to simply purchase appropriate resales, or just use RCI or Hilton Hotels when available. I think HGV may ultimately find they have shot themselves in the foot with this approach, but I guess that remains to be seen. I at least know what I will be doing. Colour me disappointed with HGV!!

Back in the early summer (end of June), she had mentioned that there would be a cost to book and toward the end of summer or early fall, Max was brought up.

I too am disappointed with how this has all transpired. But on the other hand, I sorta expected it. With Apollo involved, their main goal is to make money and they won’t give it away for free. I had thought HGVC was above it all but was wrong in that account.

I still love the program and very happy with the resorts I have access to. I won’t purchase retail for Max either but am grateful I purchased HGVC resale instead of some other system. I still feel it’s the best system to own resale in and will enjoy it until it’s no longer viable.

 

[GT75]

No change for Embarc members who don't buy in. It's an exchange system to give access to Embarc/Hilton/Diamond. You can only reserve 6 months before the CHECK-OUT date. Existing terms for Embarc member reservations are 11 months out from CHECK-IN for 6 days or more, and 6 months out from CHECK-IN for 5 days or less.

Thank you again for your comments. I agree with you and @dayooper & @CanuckTravlr, this is truly another disappointment from HGV. Again, this is only for sales to show customers a map of places that they will most likely not be able to book.

 

[Talent312]

If the whole system imploded and suddenly, all we had
left were stays at our home port, I might not be happy,
but I'd be okay with that.
,