Elderly Father in law bought timeshare he cannot afford

[dioxide45]

It makes me so angry to read things like this. I'm not a lawyer, but I'm pretty sure that both parties to a contract have to have the "capacity" to enter into a contract in order for it to be enforceable.

Therefore, no minor can have a contract that they sign enforced against them. I would think an 80 year old who enters into a timeshare contract would similarly be deemed to not have had the capacity to contract. As would, in my opinion, virtually all judges and, in particular, all juries. If it were me, I might even seek punitive damages and I bet a jury might award them to me.

If you're not as angry as I am and don't want to sue, at least call the resort and let them know how you feel. Let's see what they say.

I am sure there would be many 80 year olds that would be insulted by this comment. Just because someone is 80 years old doesn't make them incapable of entering into a contract.

 

[Tia]

My stepdad was talking about a trip to Europe yesterday, told me that he is going to go to France, then Italy, then to Poland and Germany. He is 90 and has dementia. We asked him for his log-ins to his bank and credit card. This is SCARY that he is planning a trip. I think people with mild dementia do plan trips. I just hope my stepdad forgets that he planned a trip, and we can get a refund for him.

He also talked about going on a cruise a few days ago. He is tired of being home alone. I told him that he could maybe go on a cruise with us, but he is wobbly, so getting off the ship, not really a good idea. Maybe he could go up to meals and enjoy the views from the balcony. I have no idea what to say to him about these crazy plans he is making in his head.

His doctor reiterated to him in front of Rick that he should not be driving, unless it's the 1 mile to the grocery store, but he keeps driving down "his street," Lowell Blvd (his name is Lowell) and we keep telling him that his doctor said he shouldn't be driving.

The doctor told him to remember 3 words, talked to him for a few minutes about his meds, then asked the three words he was supposed to remember. He could not remember any of the words.

I could see an elderly couple getting into a car, driving a distance, like from Denver to the Colorado Rocky Mountains, going to a timeshare presentation, and walking away and forgetting that they bought something, until the bill comes. You might think that is an unlikely scenario, but I know my stepdad, and he is impulsive.

He has me so worried right now because he is bored at home and won't go the few blocks to the senior center.

Oh boy your post deserves it's own thread. What about assisted living for your stepdad?

 

[rickandcindy23]

Oh boy your post deserves it's own thread. What about assisted living for your stepdad?

He won't do it.

 

[rapmarks]

^^^ Well, good for that company. However, I presume the buyer was well enough to travel. This person was already on vacation. Let's hope he doesn't need his credit score for anything.

I don't condone the purchase but age is not automatic "elder abuse." This person's decision isn't any different than many folks who get sucked into a T/S purchase.
There are rules about competency but how do you prove someone is incompetent if he's well enough to travel? On the other hand, there are laws against age discrimination for a mortgage, etc. A 95-yo qualifies for a 30-yr mortgage just like everyone else.

Definitely. I am 80 and so are a lot of my friends. All sharp as can be.

 

[Larry M]

It amazes me to see people older than me (I am 70) sitting in the waiting area for a timeshare presentation. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to know what these sleazeballs have in mind to con seniors. It's elder abuse, frankly, to push an older person into signing for a timeshare. There should be a law that no one over a certain age should be invited to a timeshare presentation. It has to be over 70 because I am 70.

I'll be 80 in June and know better. Unfortunately, some others haven't aged as well.

 

[easyrider]

Timeshare sales presentation could be fine, if only the sales staff would not insist you must sign a contract right now, this hour, this very second, today to receive the best offer.

I cause this Pressure . IMHO.

Nobody would buy them if they researched it first, imo.

Bill

 

[easyrider]

I am sure there would be many 80 year olds that would be insulted by this comment. Just because someone is 80 years old doesn't make them incapable of entering into a contract.

This is true and goes to show how at 80 a person can be duped into buying a timeshare the same as a person of any age. Bad judgement has no age limit, lol.

Bill

 

[CalGalTraveler]

I drive by an Indian Casino every once in a while and I see busses of old people spending their SS checks likely on slots. I think most of them are losing.

Then this guy being discussed on this thread bought a timeshare.

At what age is too old ? From what I see it's different for everyone but generally by 80+ many people aren't functioning physically or mentally as well as they did in their 70's.

Bill

I would not assume it was their SS checks. I knew of an elderly man in his 90s who played one-armed bandit every few days at a local casino. He needed is SS to pay bills but would use birthday and Xmas money on his "lucky" machine. The machine would pay out against this money. Never much winnings but enough to keep him going. We think either the system was faulty or the casino set the machine to play with these odds for him.

 

[jr4seasons]

Rent it out every year and use proceeds to pay it off. If not enough to cover the full debt owed each year (I'm assuming he has a payment arrangement for the purchase with the resort) ask resort to adjust it. Many resorts have in-house rental programs (for a fee) or he (you) could rent it out directly -TUG, Redweek, MyResortNetwork, etc. Check for an Owners Facebook page for the resort and post there too.

 

[rickandcindy23]

@Snazzylass We have told my stepdad that he cannot drive to Georgia from Denver to visit his daughers, and he pouts that we won't let him go. He pouts like a toddler, but he at least doesn't have tantrums, not yet anyway. He is quite comfortable driving on the interstate highways, but no one on the road would be comfortable with his driving the same roads with them, believe me.

He eats dinner with us every night we are home (we do travel a lot), drives 9/10 of a mile in his car through our neighborhood to get to our house, then drives back. The store is closer than 9/10 mile, but he has to stop for traffic lights. The neighborhood has stop signs and it's his habit to drive it, so he does just fine with it.

He is not my father, who is not suffering for dementia at all, not that any of his kids can tell. I have no real say in what my stepdad does. We did get him a DNR and he has a medical alert service.

My birth father is 90, this is the father whom I have only known for 6.5 months. He still gambles, plays cards, and has gambled with a lot of celebrities in poker tournaments in his lifetime. He drives to Black Hawk every night and wins, apparently. His wife also plays poker. That's their hobby. They drive up and back on the interstate at night, neither of them drinks, no traffic incidents so far, except a deer and a raccoon once. My birth father moves very slowly and has had injuries in his life that cause him a great deal of pain.

My stepdad moves fairly well, unless he has a dizzy spell due to low BP.

The difference between the two 90-year-old men is astounding, and I believe my stepdad is suffering from dementia partly out of loneliness. My mom has been gone for nearly 22 years. But will he move to assisted living? Never. Will he sell his house and move to Georgia to be nearer his daughters? Even his daughters believe he would die right away from that stress.

I agree that it depends on the older person's competence. The OP's elderly parent might know exactly what happened at the presentation and signed with no regrets and still has no regrets. We all know that it's still a bad decision. If he is impaired, he should be allowed out of the contract based on age. I think Florida provides this option, actually. When Bondi was the AG, she fought for the elderly who were taken advantage of by scams, and timeshare is scammish.

 

[Foggy1]

I'll be 80 in June and know better. Unfortunately, some others haven't aged as well.

I have you by 10 yrs and agree with your statement on aging well. I actually bought a TS when I was 70 and have gotten 20 good years out of it. Age may just be a number.

 

[andre10056]

I am sure there would be many 80 year olds that would be insulted by this comment. Just because someone is 80 years old doesn't make them incapable of entering into a contract.

I agree 100%. But that's what you tell the resort regardless to try to negotiate a deedback. I would take that position to do battle with the timeshare entity.

 

[bobby]

Hi all,

Two days ago, my husband found out that his 80-something father purchased a timeshare that he is not able to afford. The transaction occurred in the fall so we are well past the rescission period. The debt appears to be around 11k, though we're still trying to figure out the full financial impacts. I've read about the responsible exit program, but that appears to be geared toward those who do not have any debt. Has anyone else been in this kind of situation? We have learned to stay away from timeshare exit companies. Any other tips?

This is not necessarily an age issue. It happens to all age groups. I'm 80 and certainly competent. So the fault is just being ignorant of scams. Happens in many types of life.

 

[pedro47]

I mean, this is the exact problem - what age do you become legally incompetent? Should Warren Buffett be disempowered? Do you want to be forced to a conservator when you become some "old age"?

Even just for timeshares - you still need to determine the "bright line" and I don't see getting political agreement. And TBH I've seen worse done in car sales to much younger people who are mentally impaired. Say around 68 or so. Heck, I have a relative who's 78 but who I would say can make a totally informed decision around vacationing, and is currently perfectly able to travel and as mobile as I am at 43. Now, maybe the argument would be she wouldn't get long enough use to be a reasonable purchase, but again, who would we be to decide that?

I would think that you could try and get a contract voided if you could prove impairment at time of signing, but that's pretty expensive and potentially hard to do.

Now, I've made the argument before that I think there's a market and business plan for TSs that isn't predatory and doesn't need these high pressure sales, but clearly the Industry disagrees.

Would Warren Buffett sign a legal document without his team of attorney in the same room.?

 

[tjk144]

I am 75, soon to be 76, and my wife and I attend these presentations all the time to get free stuff, cash mostly. Just attended a couple in Branson last summer. I have no problem telling these people to take a hike -- even with high pressure sales tactics of which there are always a few. Hopefully I will still the capacity to say NO in my 80's although I always thought that there were age restrictions on attending these sales presentations. How many 80 year olds are going to be purchasing timeshares, even 70 year olds for that matter?

 

[pedro47]

I am 75, soon to be 76, and my wife and I attend these presentations all the time to get free stuff, cash mostly. Just attended a couple in Branson last summer. I have no problem telling these people to take a hike -- even with high pressure sales tactics of which there are always a few. Hopefully I will still the capacity to say NO in my 80's although I always thought that there were age restrictions on attending these sales presentations. How many 80 year olds are going to be purchasing timeshares, even 70 year olds for that matter?

I’m 78 years old and I too can say No.

We do not attend timeshare presentation. We are on vacation and do not need any high pressure sale talk.

But, how many seniors citizen can say No. Their must be a reason why timeshare sales personnel target senior citizens over the of age of seventy (70)..

Good reply, I would love to know how many timeshares are sold to couples after the age of 70 years old?

 

[rapmarks]

I am 75, soon to be 76, and my wife and I attend these presentations all the time to get free stuff, cash mostly. Just attended a couple in Branson last summer. I have no problem telling these people to take a hike -- even with high pressure sales tactics of which there are always a few. Hopefully I will still the capacity to say NO in my 80's although I always thought that there were age restrictions on attending these sales presentations. How many 80 year olds are going to be purchasing timeshares, even 70 year olds for that matter?

I bought a week , resale,when I was 75, I am selling it now, but with a heavy heart.

 

[LannyPC]

Timeshare sales presentation could be fine, if only the sales staff would not insist you must sign a contract right now, this hour, this very second, today to receive the best offer.

I cause this Pressure . IMHO.

I get what you're saying but the sales staff are lying in this instance. If the potential buyer came back the following day saying ,"Yeah, this looks like a great deal. I'll buy it," I'm sure the sales person would gladly sell it at yesterday's "today only" price.

 

[GrayFal]

Rent it out every year and use proceeds to pay it off. If not enough to cover the full debt owed each year (I'm assuming he has a payment arrangement for the purchase with the resort) ask resort to adjust it. Many resorts have in-house rental programs (for a fee) or he (you) could rent it out directly -TUG, Redweek, MyResortNetwork, etc. Check for an Owners Facebook page for the resort and post there too.

Bluegreen prohibits renting.
Of any kind.

 

[GrayFal]

I agree 100%. But that's what you tell the resort regardless to try to negotiate a deedback. I would take that position to do battle with the timeshare entity.

Bluegreen has a buy back program of paid off points. No loans on points.

You pay 18 months of MF and it's gone.

 

[jp10558]

Would Warren Buffett sign a legal document without his team of attorney in the same room.?

So maybe the law should be you must prove each side had an attorney review a contract before signing for it to be valid? That seems much more widely reasonable except that it means a lot of disruption for our corporations love of contracts of adhesion in the 21st century, and also probably makes a huge percentage of people unable to actually afford to enter into any contracts.

I'm just pointing out that in my limited experience most laws or regulations require either a case by case determination (this will mean a lot of court cases and money) or a somewhat arbitrary line that "anyone" can apply like checking age against government ID. The analog of what you're suggesting (I think) would be similar to instead of saying no alcohol before 21, you should determine how "mature" the person is even if they're 13 or something. Which in practice I think means no limit but occasional lawsuits.

 

[skimeup]

I bought a week , resale,when I was 75, I am selling it now, but with a heavy heart.

I'm 81 and happily attend sales presentations for the free stuff. I also have purchased a couple of Grandview Vegas for the points as I love traveling to New York. Don't care about the season and am able to get into Hilton's routinely - sometimes in cold weather, once in May. Definitely don't have the energy I once had but seriously? My kids would laugh at the idea of prohibiting me from having fun with traveling to my timeshares!

 

[Snazzylass]

So maybe the law should be you must prove each side had an attorney review a contract before signing for it to be valid? That seems much more widely reasonable except that it means a lot of disruption for our corporations love of contracts of adhesion in the 21st century, and also probably makes a huge percentage of people unable to actually afford to enter into any contracts.

I'm just pointing out that in my limited experience most laws or regulations require either a case by case determination (this will mean a lot of court cases and money) or a somewhat arbitrary line that "anyone" can apply like checking age against government ID. The analog of what you're suggesting (I think) would be similar to instead of saying no alcohol before 21, you should determine how "mature" the person is even if they're 13 or something. Which in practice I think means no limit but occasional lawsuits.

well, that is the law in some states for real estate transactions including refinancing. NY and maybe SC require an attorney. NJ requires one for purchase but not refi. Thank God the Bar Association lobby is not that strong in most states. I recall a first-time buyer hiring an attorney for closing. What was he supposed to say? The contracts are preprinted. Boilerplate. He brought nothing to the table.

On the other hand, I've allowed attorneys to tinker with preprinted contracts because it's their nature. They always want to add there 2 cents. Of course, I've only allowed the changes when it benefited the lender

 

[GrayFal]

Respectfully, this thread has really gone off the tracks.

@dottie127 came for advice.
It’s a BG Vacation Club membership.

1. Pay it off or keep paying the loan and use it. As previously stated, an 11K retail purchase is for a very small number of points which will give them minimal vacation time likely available at a cash rate for a lot less than the loan payment and maint fee.

2. Pay it off and use the Bluegreen exit program to get out of it cleanly. You can also try to give it away for free once it is paid off Most people giving away will also pay the $500 transfer fee.

Here is the website with all the contact information to directly engage Bluegreen in giving back an unwanted timeshare.

https://www.bluegreenvacations.com/talk-to-bluegreen-vacations-were-here-to-help

and the phone number: (844) 757-6932

3. Default on the loan and do not pay the maint fee. Yes, there could/would be a credit ding but you will eventually be out from under this obligation.

Good luck