eBay Inventory

[EKniager]

I'll be glad when this British seller Timeshareinterval moves on and gets tired of posting high priced MVC auctions without getting bids.

My concern is that the casual one off seller might actually think these prices are real comps and misprice their offerings as well.

 

[BocaBoy]

I'll be glad when this British seller Timeshareinterval moves on and gets tired of posting high priced MVC auctions without getting bids.

My concern is that the casual one off seller might actually think these prices are real comps and misprice their offerings as well.

But the EBay sales prices are not the best comps either. They are the low end. A patient seller can do much better. I have sold four units in the past three years and have gotten between $11,300 (Sabal Palms) and $24,500 (Waiohai EOY) for them. Those sales are clearly not the best comps either, but rather the high side. As a seller I would never list on EBay unless I was willing to literally give the unit away and wanted it done very fast. Some sellers are in that position, but probably not most of them.

 

[pwrshift]

And where were you a patient seller? Tell us all how to do it.

But the EBay sales prices are not the best comps either. They are the low end. A patient seller can do much better. I have sold four units in the past three years and have gotten between $11,300 (Sabal Palms) and $24,500 (Waiohai EOY) for them. Those sales are clearly not the best comps either, but rather the high side. As a seller I would never list on EBay unless I was willing to literally give the unit away and wanted it done very fast. Some sellers are in that position, but probably not most of them.

 

[larryallen]

But the EBay sales prices are not the best comps either. They are the low end. A patient seller can do much better. I have sold four units in the past three years and have gotten between $11,300 (Sabal Palms) and $24,500 (Waiohai EOY) for them. Those sales are clearly not the best comps either, but rather the high side. As a seller I would never list on EBay unless I was willing to literally give the unit away and wanted it done very fast. Some sellers are in that position, but probably not most of them.

WOW, you got $24,500 for a Waiohai EOY? That's amazing. The guy that bought it from you must not have done very much research for his purchase... or was brain dead perhaps! That's crazy.

 

[BocaBoy]

And where were you a patient seller? Tell us all how to do it.

I have posted several times on this subject. My best personal sales results have been through Marriott Resales. I had to wait six months for one sale and almost two years for the other one, but the end price was much better than what I could have gotten on the resale market. Their prices have come down recently, but they are still much higher than EBay and most other private sale prices and the closing process is seamless and worry free, just like buying direct from Marriott was when they were selling developer weeks. Another week was sold privately to an individual I know who was considering buying direct from Marriott. We basically split the difference between Marriott prices and Redweek prices because he wanted to deal with someone he knew if it was not Marriott. Not having to worry about getting scammed can be a powerful motivation to pay more for a product.

My point is not that everyone can be successful using this approach nor is it right for everyone. My only point is that EBay is only one small part of the market and sellers can usually do much better if they are not in severe distress and have a decent week to sell. Viewing EBay as the "market price" is similar to viewing foreclosures as the "market price" in the single family housing market. It affects prices but is not the whole story.

 

[mike2200]

I have posted several times on this subject. My best personal sales results have been through Marriott Resales. I had to wait six months for one sale and almost two years for the other one, but the end price was much better than what I could have gotten on the resale market. Their prices have come down recently, but they are still much higher than EBay and most other private sale prices and the closing process is seamless and worry free, just like buying direct from Marriott was when they were selling developer weeks. Another week was sold privately to an individual I know who was considering buying direct from Marriott. We basically split the difference between Marriott prices and Redweek prices because he wanted to deal with someone he knew if it was not Marriott. Not having to worry about getting scammed can be a powerful motivation to pay more for a product.

My point is not that everyone can be successful using this approach nor is it right for everyone. My only point is that EBay is only one small part of the market and sellers can usually do much better if they are not in severe distress and have a decent week to sell. Viewing EBay as the "market price" is similar to viewing foreclosures as the "market price" in the single family housing market. It affects prices but is not the whole story.

I thought Marriott took 50% when it handles your resale? Or am I wrong please advise thanks!

 

[dioxide45]

The problem now is that what BocaBoy received a while back is not really possible any longer when listing through Marriott. Even Marriott has realized the loss in value of weeks and Marriott is no longer selling weeks through their resale department for what they used. After their 40% commission, you will be lucky to get much over selling through other avenues.

 

[BocaBoy]

I thought Marriott took 50% when it handles your resale? Or am I wrong please advise thanks!

It is 40%.

 

[m61376]

Out of curiosity, what did Marriott charge for EOY Waiohai weeks? $24,500 sounds like a developer price, or pretty close to it. Hope it wasn't a friend you sold it to....

 

[Ridewithme38]

More timeshares sell on Ebay everyday then anywhere else, without knowing the totals of the smaller place, i'd still guess that its more then anywhere else combined...Hundreds a week

Ebay IS the market...just because you find a place to sell it for a rediculously high price, doesn't mean thats the market price....Ebay is the market price

 

[MALC9990]

More timeshares sell on Ebay everyday then anywhere else, without knowing the totals of the smaller place, i'd still guess that its more then anywhere else combined...Hundreds a week

Ebay IS the market...just because you find a place to sell it for a rediculously high price, doesn't mean thats the market price....Ebay is the market price

EBAY may well be the marketplace for the distress sales in the USA where there seems to be a desperate rush to get our from under TS MFs but that is not the situation in Europe - look for the low value sales of Marriott TSs in Europe on EBAY - you will not find them. Resale prices in Europe may not be anywhere near developer prices by they are certainly not down at $1 point.

I don't think EBAY actually sells many TSs in Europe. My experience was that my reseller was using EBAY as an advertising platform - along side their own WEB site, Google and also ads in other media. The actual sales were done by email and telephone and was like buying a house. The agent quoted the price the buyer wanted, I made an offer, the agent passed my low ball offer to the seller and we then negotiated to an agreed price or not as was often the case. In the end I got my desired resale weeks for a price that was acceptable to me and the sellers. The agent took his commission from the sale proceeds. I paid a refundable security deposit which was deducted from my final price when the sale was completed.

These weeks are all appearing on EBAY.CO.UK - so if you don't want to see them just exclude worldwide when doing your search on EBAY.COM

Weeks in European Marriott resorts have not tanked anywhere near as much as in the USA.

 

[dioxide45]

More timeshares sell on Ebay everyday then anywhere else, without knowing the totals of the smaller place, i'd still guess that its more then anywhere else combined...Hundreds a week

Ebay IS the market...just because you find a place to sell it for a rediculously high price, doesn't mean thats the market price....Ebay is the market price

I think it is a stretch to say that Ebay is larger than all other avenues combined and IS the market. Ebay is just an advertising conduit. Ebay doesn't sell anything. PCCs, brokers, owners, etc sell on Ebay. Think of all the other websites out there, local brokers. The problem is that the rest of the market is not visible without looking behind the scenes at actual deed recordings.

When you look at the housing market, the market isn't ONLY the forclosed homes, there are other comps to look at. Now the forclosed homes do bring down overall values, but those are far from being THE market.

 

[bw3]

More timeshares sell on Ebay everyday then anywhere else, without knowing the totals of the smaller place, i'd still guess that its more then anywhere else combined...Hundreds a week

Ebay IS the market...just because you find a place to sell it for a rediculously high price, doesn't mean thats the market price....Ebay is the market price

Yes! Yes! Yes! I would not offer any seller more than the eBay price for any week. Brokers and sellers are always hoping to find an uninformed buyer. Or someone who is brain dead. If you are patient, meaning you can wait 10 years, you might see prices increase. Today, eBay is the market. They just set the price for 2 br platinum frenchman's cove at $7,200. You might add a few hundred if you know the seller.

 

[SueDonJ]

... Viewing EBay as the "market price" is similar to viewing foreclosures as the "market price" in the single family housing market. It affects prices but is not the whole story.

... When you look at the housing market, the market isn't ONLY the forclosed homes, there are other comps to look at. Now the forclosed homes do bring down overall values, but those are far from being THE market.

Very interesting correlation, I like it!

Yes! Yes! Yes! I would not offer any seller more than the eBay price for any week. Brokers and sellers are always hoping to find an uninformed buyer. Or someone who is brain dead. If you are patient, meaning you can wait 10 years, you might see prices increase. Today, eBay is the market. They just set the price for 2 br platinum frenchman's cove at $7,200. You might add a few hundred if you know the seller.

We're not in the market for more timeshares but I'll admit that if we were, eBay is the last place we'd look because we're just not comfortable with that process. I'd certainly make good use of whatever advice TUGgers would want to give in order to get a decent price, but my main concerns would be the usage value - including a consideration of how that could change in the future - of the particular timeshare we'd like to own as well as the ease of processing during its purchase. If a seller outside of eBay would accept an offer that matches eBay's lowest then I'd consider that purchase, but they're not easily found. There's a reason eBay has the lowest prices!

Sure, many eBay transactions go through with no trouble at all. But practically every other day on TUG there's some report about an eBay transaction being processed incorrectly - minor annoyances like the closing taking forever or a problem getting the new purchase added to existing accounts, all the way up to major headaches including the seller misrepresenting the product or the PCC's/closing companies engaging in fraud. Plus, at least one TUGger has admitted to using eBay as a testing ground and NOT honoring a buyer's winning bid because it wasn't high enough. I don't want ANY of those headaches and will avoid them if at all possible. And as ridiculous as it may sound because of course we're all just individual drops in the bucket, I don't want to be a player in the fringe illegalities of the timeshare market.

It makes no difference to me that others don't agree with this type of thinking because we all have different levels of comfort. But I still, even after all these years on TUG, have a problem with seeing those of us who do think this way referred to as "uninformed" or "braindead." It simply isn't necessary to blatantly - or indirectly - insult anybody who might do things differently than you do.

 

[Gophesjo]

I don't mean to be disrespectful, but Ebay is the market, and any other perspective reminds me of the proverbial ostrich with its head in the sand. You may not want to buy from a seller in the Ebay market, but that market is where current prices have been set - repeatedly, and are being set - daily.

 

[Ridewithme38]

When you look at the housing market, the market isn't ONLY the forclosed homes, there are other comps to look at. Now the forclosed homes do bring down overall values, but those are far from being THE market.

in June 2009, Foreclosure sales accounted for 22% of all US home sales, so no, the market isn't ONLY foreclosure sales, but you can't really compare some like Forclosure sales vs regular sales to something like Timeshare sales...if you did, you'd have it backwards, Regular sales(that 78% of sales) would be Ebay Timeshare sales and the 22% would be from ANYWHERE else

Your better comparison would be Potato Chips, there are 100 Stores in my area that sell Potato Chips, But the Walmart is the largest seller in my area, accounting for 47% of all Potato Chip sales and the other 99 stores accounting for the other 53%

 

[SueDonJ]

I don't mean to be disrespectful, but Ebay is the market, and any other perspective reminds me of the proverbial ostrich with its head in the sand. You may not want to buy from a seller in the Ebay market, but that market is where current prices have been set - repeatedly, and are being set - daily.

Hmmm. I think the market LOW is set on eBay, sure. I wonder, using what Bocaboy and Dioxide have posted, would you venture into the real estate market for a single-family home and insist to your realtor that you would only pay the established lowest short sale or foreclosed price for ANY of the houses in a particular neighborhood? Or would you take into consideration that the sellers' circumstances helped to determine the prices for each individual offering, and if you have a preference for one over the other, or a preference for how the sale progresses, then you will have to work with that particular seller to come to a mutual agreement?

How is it that the folks who recognize that eBay is not the ONLY market, are the ones who are seen with their heads in the sand?

 

[Ridewithme38]

Sure, many eBay transactions go through with no trouble at all. But practically every other day on TUG there's some report about an eBay transaction being processed incorrectly - minor annoyances like the closing taking forever or a problem getting the new purchase added to existing accounts, all the way up to major headaches including the seller misrepresenting the product or the PCC's/closing companies engaging in fraud. Plus, at least one TUGger has admitted to using eBay as a testing ground and NOT honoring a buyer's winning bid because it wasn't high enough. I don't want ANY of those headaches and will avoid them if at all possible. And as ridiculous as it may sound because of course we're all just individual drops in the bucket, I don't want to be a player in the fringe illegalities of the timeshare market.

This kinds of things happen with ALL resale contracts, its just the way it is, the reason you see it so much with ebay, is because that is where the Majority buy from, because, well, its the market

 

[m61376]

Ebay does set the bottom of the market, but there are many other buyers who will opt to pay a little more for ease/security of transaction. That said, in general it does represent what the lowest prices are for a particular resort. However, even informed sellers may get a better price elsewhere, and informed buyers may pay a little more.

I think Dioxide's analogy to the foreclosure market pricing is a good one.

 

[SueDonJ]

This kinds of things happen with ALL resale contracts, its just the way it is, the reason you see it so much with ebay, is because that is where the Majority buy from, because, well, its the market

Like I said, I would prefer to avoid those kinds of problems if at all possible, and knowing that they happen frequently with eBay resales would cause me to avoid eBay. It's a personal preference is all, certainly not one I'm trying to force on others.

You say the problems happen more frequently because of the volume of eBay sales, because the majority of re-sold timeshares are sold through eBay. Well, how do you know that? As Dioxide pointed out, it's only possible to know the total numbers and methods of timeshare sales if you have access to the deed recordings in every municipality wherein timeshares are sold. Do you have that access?

I don't have that access, but I would say that the frequency of problems found with eBay sales could have as much to do with the nature of the sellers and buyers using that model as it does with the volume (whether eBay represents the majority timeshare resale market or not.) That's the impression I've gleaned from TUG all these years, anyway - that there are fewer issues with resales processed outside of eBay.

 

[larryallen]

I don't mean to be disrespectful, but Ebay is the market, and any other perspective reminds me of the proverbial ostrich with its head in the sand. You may not want to buy from a seller in the Ebay market, but that market is where current prices have been set - repeatedly, and are being set - daily.

I agree. Ebay is reality. People put high asking prices on redweek and through brokers but only completely uninformed people buy at those other places. It's simply wasting money. Buying from a friend is worth about $100. All you are doing there is giving your friend the extra money. The protections are in place for purchases on Ebay to be safe and smooth. It's not like Ebay is some back-alley transaction. Your deposit is protected by PayPal and then you buy through escrow. It's really simple and safe. I would say it's much safer than buying through Redweek.

 

[persia]

Ebay actually is more a market middle, the market bottom are those who will take the timeshare off your hands for a (substantial) fee. You may be able to pocket a couple hundred bucks in a private transaction over Wyndham points but that's about it. Wyndham points are, like a lot of other timeshares, essentially worthless and there's no imaginable future where they will return to their pre-recession value of $5 to $10 a thousand. Those days are gone forever.

 

[EKniager]

There are always multiple markets. There are plenty of ways to segment and evaluate this: transaction time, buyer characterizations, seller motivations, etc.

eBay is an efficient "channel" to reach lots of different buyers. It's also open and highly visible so we all get to observe the data and form opinions. The only entity that truly understands the overall re-sale market is Marriott as they have a role in 100% of the transactions.

I am in the segment of bargain shoppers looking to buy a very specific product at a very specific price limit. This thread was initiated to express my opinion that a new (to me) seller was using this channel to advertise their higher priced inventory. Since novice, amateur, one-off sellers also use this channel, I was concerned that they may form the incorrect opinion that they too can sell their possibly distressed property at this higher premium price and that will clog "the machine" for a while with auctions ending without bids, thus, delaying my opportunity to buy the item I seek at a recently establish value I can relate to. :annoyed:

 

[SueDonJ]

I agree. Ebay is reality. People put high asking prices on redweek and through brokers but only completely uninformed people buy at those other places. It's simply wasting money. Buying from a friend is worth about $100. All you are doing there is giving your friend the extra money. The protections are in place for purchases on Ebay to be safe and smooth. It's not like Ebay is some back-alley transaction. Your deposit is protected by PayPal and then you buy through escrow. It's really simple and safe. I would say it's much safer than buying through Redweek.

There it is, that "uninformed" buyer again. Sheesh.

There are TUGgers who are quite knowledgeable who have dealt with respectable brokers outside of eBay, despite knowing that it could be possible to eventually find the same timeshare on eBay for a lower price. Reading them I don't get the impression that they were "uninformed" at all. They simply had a preference for a method other than eBay and happily went about their purchase. You (the collective you) might not go that route, but that doesn't mean that everybody who does is not as smart as you.

 

[Gophesjo]

Hmmm. would you venture into the real estate market for a single-family home and insist to your realtor that you would only pay the established lowest short sale or foreclosed price for ANY of the houses in a particular neighborhood? Or would you take into consideration that the sellers' circumstances helped to determine the prices for each individual offering, and if you have a preference for one over the other, or a preference for how the sale progresses, then you will have to work with that particular seller to come to a mutual agreement?

How is it that the folks who recognize that eBay is not the ONLY market, are the ones who are seen with their heads in the sand?

Yes, I would base the price I am willing to pay on the latest resales in the neighborhood, even if they were short sales or foreclosure sales. I would certainly factor in property condition, but I would NOT consider the circumstances that led up to the last sale being a short sale or foreclosure sale.

My condo is worth 50% of what it was worth three years ago. I can try to say that that is not really the case - that the last foreclosure sale was just an anomaly - but the FACT of the matter is that the last willing seller and the last willing buyer settled on that 50% price. If I take any other perspective, I am being that ostrich with my head stuck in the sand.