DVC Direct Price Increase

[TravelTime]

It sounds like DVC direct is not a great fit for most people on TUG. I must say that the upfront costs of buying into Aulani resale is about half the direct price. Also AK, SSR and OKW are still relatively inexpensive resale. Some of these resorts can still make sense depending on the person's objectives. I bought Aulani for $82.50 pp about a year ago. It is still in the $80s and $90s with many reputable agents. To me, that is a great deal for DVC given today's economy and in light of the price increases. I have also found I can get anything I want at the 7 month mark but I do not go for studios. So technically for people who want 1 or 2 BRs, you can own somewhere you can afford and trade at 7 months. I did not want to take a risk and we have the disposable income, so I bought at the various resorts I thought I might want to stay at. I am probably going to sell some contracts in the future and consolidate into 2 home resorts since I found that exchanging at 7 months is easier than people have reported on TUG. I think we need to give new Tuggers accurate information and not poo poo DVC just because it seems expensive or direct prices are so high. I am concerned that comparing DVC to the cheaper and less flexible alternatives like renting points and discounts on hotel rooms is not accurate. The cash prices for deluxe resorts are high and the discount does not get you a cheap room, even after a discount. And availability and selection are usually limited for cash rooms. When I did the AK 1 BR Club room comparison, I chose that only because I had trouble finding something comparable on the hotel booking site. I have been told it can be hard to rent points and get what you want. You also lose control when renting points and might need to be more flexible than what is available. I could see doing this once in awhile but not regularly. You are still paying at least double to almost triple to rent from an owner on a cost per point basis. I think there are many DVC haters on TUG and I am not sure why. Just because something is expensive does not make it bad. There are 126+ million HHs in the USA. So timeshare market share is about only about 7% of US households. I think this is small.

 

[chriskre]

I own two DVC contracts and bought both direct even as a TUG member! LOL

At the time when I purchased SSR they were doing incentives which brought
the price close to resale with no closing costs and with the ability to book immediately.
I was making good money and was tired of staying off site and knew that I
was going to continue to visit Disney for the rest of my life. I have been to
Disney more than 100 times in my lifetime. I am the perfect target for DVC.

DVC also does owner financing so it does not show on your credit and at the
time I was buying and selling real estate and did not want any obligations
on my credit report hindering my investing.

I only bought 150 points but have banked and borrowed that small contract
to double what I own in the years I wanted to have an annual pass.

Now DVC is allowing smaller direct first time buyers, so 100 or even as low
as 50 points is now the entry point. More people can afford $200 points if the
contracts are only 50 points. They can then bank and borrow and do a trip
every 3 years and still feel they are beating Disney's prices, especially in
studios.

You also have the ability to rent additional points from Disney for $19 a point in
the years you need additional points without dealing with a points broker or
unknown owner and taking a risk. I think owning DVC is all about lowering
your risk, not necessarily financial risk but hassle and stress risk.
It's pretty much a hassle free ownership for those who learn the
club rules and actually use what they bought.

When I saw that Poly was going TS I definitely wanted to own there because it
was the first resort I had stayed in at Disney as a child and the nostalgia of
those times sold me on the resort before it was even built as a TS. I bought
direct again from Disney, but the price was $144 or $146 at the time. I don't
remember exactly but in the $140s. Again Disney financed it but I paid it off
after a year. Poly is one of the original Disney hotels and I would say that it's
definitely not the highest and best use of the land. If Disney had wanted they
could have leveled the buildings and built high rises like BLT or GF but they
did not, so I don't think they are thinking to level the other older resorts like
BWV and BCV. Riviera is pretty tall so I can see them doing it with OKW in the
future with the renewed desirability of Disney Springs. I'd hate to see it
happen because I love the feel of OKW, but there is so much potential for
them to pack in more units there if they build up and could still try to keep
the Key West vibe and not disturb the rest of the club during the rebuild.

Sad to say but I don't think the new purchasers are going to have a hint of
a clue as to the trap the mouse has set for them. Even I a TUGger at the time
of purchase did not understand DVC enough and bought at a resort that I really
have little interest in staying at because Disney sells you on the idea that points
are points, stay where you want. I think that was probably true before SSR came
on board, but afterwards with the influx of all those owners it's definitely harder
to get what you want without owning multiple contracts or going off season.
Luckily I prefer the off season so I don't need to own where I want to stay except
at Poly which seems to be booked all the time.

I do wish the Mouse had an in-house rental program for owners. I still don't
know why they aren't getting in on that action themselves. Seems like an easy
thing for them to do for themselves and for their members. Maybe one day they'll
add that no hassle feature to the club.

 

[frank808]

I suspect there are very few DVC owners among Tuggers. Many of the folks who have been commenting on the recent threads seem to be non owners. It would be nice to know which Tuggers are DVC owners to get some perspective on their comments.

I think the ROFR information on Disboards and elsewhere is more helpful than ROFR.net or TUG because they have hundreds of people reporting every quarter for all the resorts. I do not think there are enough Tuggers to get broad enough data here.

We own DVC, MVC and HGVC.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

 

[Dean]

The reason I've wondered if DVC may want to demo OKW is because of what they did in the past with the property now known as Saratoga Springs Resort. When it was first developed, it was the Walt Disney World Conference Center, then the Village Resort, then the Disney Village Resort, then the Disney Institute, and finally, SSR. Along the way, there were sections called Vacation Villas, Fairway Villas (townhomes), Treehouse Villas, Club Lake Villas, and Grand Vista Suites. All of these condos and houses (except the Treehouses) were demolished and the higher density Saratoga Springs condo buildings were added around the central spa facilities. When demo'd, those buildings were not "THAT old" either.

They kept some of the common buildings and rehabbed them. Plus to build SSR they scrapped the Eagle Pines project that had been announced and renderings released. One of 2 resorts that got to the point of being announced formally but did not happen, the other at the site of what is now Marriott's Newport Coast. Of course there are a lot of other resorts that were in the works that didn't happen as well but we have less information about them.

 

[Dean]

I think there are many DVC haters on TUG and I am not sure why. Just because something is expensive does not make it bad. There are 126+ million HHs in the USA. So timeshare market share is about only about 7% of US households. I think this is small.[/QUOTE]That's more than I would have expected, if accurate, I would have guessed it to be under 1%. There's no doubt that DVC isn't your typical timeshare in some ways. My observations over the years is that the perception is partly because DVC is a specialty product and partly because of the attitudes of the members. I can't count the number of times where someone said they would never have bought a timeshare but they bought DVC. I've seen 2 times on DVC specific sites where people said they didn't own a timeshare but owned DVC. Some want to quibble that it's a vacation club, not a timeshare. And to be honest, DVC Members can be elitist more than the average. Realize that at least a couple of those DVC haters on TUG are former DVC members. DVC is a great system to use for WDW stays, less so for other options. But is is expensive, far more so than other similar products, mostly because they can. And to be honest, there are some things they do poorly. Side by side there are better resorts out there in many situations, ignoring location and theming which of course you can't truly do.

 

[Panina]

I think there are many DVC haters on TUG and I am not sure why. Just because something is expensive does not make it bad. There are 126+ million HHs in the USA. So timeshare market share is about only about 7% of US households. I think this is small.

Where I think “DVC haters on TUG” can be found there are timeshares haters on Tug too so DVC is just part of the pack of what the haters hate.

It’s great to have choices in timeshares to find what works for you. I am a DVC lover but I chose not to buy as I am happy trading in to Saratoga. I prefer to spend my money elsewhere. For my preferences it is more cost effective to trade in and to have a guarantee to go other places more then DVC.

 

[ljmiii]

I own two DVC contracts and bought both direct even as a TUG member! LOL

At the time when I purchased SSR they were doing incentives which brought
the price close to resale with no closing costs and with the ability to book immediately....

Yeah....this is part of what makes me sad.

I was in a similar situation. When I first bought DVC the pricing was such that with incentives direct and resale were more or less the same. We decided we wanted BCV and so bought resale. Fast forward a decade or so and after one too many times of being 'shut out' at 7 months we decided to buy at BLT. But by this time DVC had started to treat resale buyers differently...and I was staggered by the spread between direct and resale prices. So of course I bought resale.

For the past few years DVC has put more and more restrictions on contracts...and are somehow surprised that people still buy resale. I wish there was someone I could tell, "Dummkoff - people are buying resale BECAUSE of the restrictions!" Ah well...

 

[Dean]

Where I think “DVC haters on TUG” can be found there are timeshares haters on Tug too so DVC is just part of the pack of what the haters hate.

It’s great to have choices in timeshares to find what works for you. I am a DVC lover but I chose not to buy as I am happy trading in to Saratoga. I prefer to spend my money elsewhere. For my preferences it is more cost effective to trade in and to have a guarantee to go other places more then DVC.

I've been on DVC related sites almost daily since before there was a true internet starting 1995. Plus likely the most widely read and subscribed since it's inception in 1998. Yes there are all types in all areas but I have long since held the opinion that a much higher proportion of DVC Members are elitist and feel entitled compared to the general timeshare population. Still, it's not everyone and likely not the majority.

 

[TravelTime]

I have not gotten the sense that DVC owners are elitist or more entitled than anyone here on TUG. They just love Disney. People buy Disney to stay at Disney. If you love something, you will sing its praises but that does not mean you think you are superior to anyone else. I also see there is a lot of price consciousness on the Disney boards, just like here on TUG, so I do not see the DVC crowd as elitist. Many are just average people who love Disney to death (literally, they will never sell their points). There are also many Disney haters on the Disney boards. It is a bit irritating to read hate threads on a forum that is supposed to be magical.

 

[TravelTime]

I think there are many DVC haters on TUG and I am not sure why. Just because something is expensive does not make it bad. There are 126+ million HHs in the USA. So timeshare market share is about only about 7% of US households. I think this is small.

That's more than I would have expected, if accurate, I would have guessed it to be under 1%. There's no doubt that DVC isn't your typical timeshare in some ways. My observations over the years is that the perception is partly because DVC is a specialty product and partly because of the attitudes of the members. I can't count the number of times where someone said they would never have bought a timeshare but they bought DVC. I've seen 2 times on DVC specific sites where people said they didn't own a timeshare but owned DVC. Some want to quibble that it's a vacation club, not a timeshare. And to be honest, DVC Members can be elitist more than the average. Realize that at least a couple of those DVC haters on TUG are former DVC members. DVC is a great system to use for WDW stays, less so for other options. But is is expensive, far more so than other similar products, mostly because they can. And to be honest, there are some things they do poorly. Side by side there are better resorts out there in many situations, ignoring location and theming which of course you can't truly do.[/QUOTE]

This is a pretty common post on Mouseowners and Disboards. It does not sound entitled or elitist to me. The poster sounds realistic. There are also many negative posts but I will not share them.

It was never an investment for us, quite the opposite, I saw it for what it was, a timeshare, which could lose money, but I wanted onsite accommodations and years of vacations with my family.​

 

[TravelTime]

I love this post:

We sold our condo in a 55+ bldg. in FL and now use DVC as our snowbird getaway. No crabby old people. Kids laughing, families having fun.
Many resorts to pick from. Mission accomplished.​

 

[TravelTime]

Another good one:

I joined DVC in 2009 at VWL (ok, ok, BRV). My purpose was to "prepay" for accommodations at my favorite resort (WL) at a discount to cash ressies. I have carefully tracked and compared my actual cash outlay to DVC (including the time-value of money and MFs) to the notional cash cost of my vacation lodging at WDW. My membership has saved me a material amount of money even if I plug in rooms at moderate or value resorts. This is why I purchased DVC, and this is exactly what DVC has delivered.

But wait, there's more. DVC has also delivered valuable benefits above and beyond what my original purchase price guarantees or my MFs cover:

- In addition to VWL, I have been able to enjoy several other resorts: OKW, SSR, BCV, BWV, VB, AKV, THV, BLT, and PVB (the last four were added after 2009 purchase!).
- I have received hundreds of dollars in discounts on tours, food, and merchandise.
- I have attended several, FREE after-hour parties (seven and counting).

Lastly, and incredibly, DVC is a timeshare that has not only held it's resale value, but has actually appreciated. My points have 9 less years of "value", yet, I can sell them today for more than my purchase price. I don't plan to sell, but if my circumstances change, I'll get all of my money back and keep all of my memories.

So, even if DVC could and did take away all the extras, and all that I was left with is my ability to stay at BRV (a deluxe resort) for less money than it would cost me to stay at moderate/value resorts, than you'd find me contently relaxing at Geyser Point, and most likely, I'd be talking up DVC with my fellow vacationers.
​

 

[TravelTime]

My sense is that if DVC owners are elitist in any way, then they have a monopoly on happiness. We are elitist about passion. We are elitist about loving life. The characters make us feel warm inside and smile. That is why I love Disney. It is the ultimate in positive thinking.

 

[TravelTime]

Another nice post...this is how normal people think. Whether it is true or false is irrelevant. Like I said, you can’t easily change deeply held beliefs.

I bought direct akl in 2008

I have no regrets or issues with any dvc change. It really doesn't effect me.

I looked at it as pre paying my stays for decades. I have stayed in animal kingdom,. wilderness, Saratoga, grand Floridian. Studio, 1 bedroom, 2 bedroom 3 bedroom.

I woul have never been able to stay in these accommodations without my dvc.

I love my dvc car magnet.​

 

[PcflEZFlng]

Just my perspective on this. We love Disney and always have, since childhood. We own one DVC contract plus two Vistanas, and we view them all equally as timeshares, simply to be used and enjoyed, and nothing more and nothing less.

We've owned the DVC one, at a high-demand resort, since 2003, and today it just so happens could be sold on the resale market for over twice what we paid for it direct. For us, it's just "nice to know" and nothing else. There's a lot of hand-wringing going on right now over on the Disney boards about the latest price increases and postulating what the future holds, but the bottom line is that Disney concluded that the demand is there to support the latest price increase. DVC wasn't exactly cheap in 2003, either.

The two Vistana contracts, OTOH (bought direct in 2005 and 2006), are almost worthless on the resale market. But we don't care. We use them and enjoy them every year.

If we were to do it over again, the only thing we would have done differently was to buy all three of them resale (the Vistana ones at mandatory rather than voluntary resorts). But that all happened a long time before I finally discovered TUG.

 

[Dean]

I have not gotten the sense that DVC owners are elitist or more entitled than anyone here on TUG. They just love Disney. People buy Disney to stay at Disney. If you love something, you will sing its praises but that does not mean you think you are superior to anyone else. I also see there is a lot of price consciousness on the Disney boards, just like here on TUG, so I do not see the DVC crowd as elitist. Many are just average people who love Disney to death (literally, they will never sell their points). There are also many Disney haters on the Disney boards. It is a bit irritating to read hate threads on a forum that is supposed to be magical.

Like I said, I've been doing this for over 20 years and I have a different opinion. That is the % of entitlement and elitism is higher than the average for timeshares though many aren't.

 

[Lisa P]

I've been on DVC related sites almost daily since before there was a true internet sorting 1995. Plus likely the most widely read and subscribed since it's inception in 1998. Yes there are all types in all areas but I have long since held the opinion that a much higher proportion of DVC Members are elitist and feel entitled compared to the general timeshare population. Still, it's not everyone and likely not the majority.

... the % of entitlement and elitism is higher than the average for timeshares though many aren't.

I could have posted both of these, with the same experience as Dean. This is NOT the majority but it seems to me like a MUCH higher proportion of DVC members who display this attitude in their posts than of other high end timeshare owners... more so than Hyatt, Marriott, Four Seasons, HGVC, Hapimag (Europe), etc. Other owners delight in their ownership but don't seem to compare them to others in the disparaging terms the way DVC members have so often done. Just my opinion, like Dean's, based on over 20 years of frequenting newsgroups (pre-forums) and internet boards/forums. You are certainly welcome to disagree, with different experiences.

 

[Lisa P]

People buy Disney to stay at Disney. ... There are also many Disney haters on the Disney boards. It is a bit irritating to read hate threads on a forum that is supposed to be magical.

Many people who buy Disney, plan to stay at Disney with their points. But we've seen posts on TUG from potential buyers who intend to trade around the world or cruise or take Adventures by Disney with their points. TUG members are quick to point out that this is not a great use of DVC, unless you would otherwise lose the points. I don't think taking a cautious approach to DVC makes someone a hater. I also don't think independent forums should be considered "magical", like a marketing arm of commercial company, where pointing out limitations or negatives gets one branded as a "hater". That's pretty extreme, IMO.

 

[Lisa P]

Another good one:
I joined DVC in 2009 at VWL (ok, ok, BRV)... So, even if DVC could and did take away all the extras, and all that I was left with is my ability to stay at BRV (a deluxe resort) for less money than it would cost me to stay at moderate/value resorts, than you'd find me contently relaxing at Geyser Point, and most likely, I'd be talking up DVC with my fellow vacationers.

That's a delightful post about enjoying a timeshare that was purchased to be used in the best way possible... but important to recognize that the terms of their 2009 purchase were DIFFERENT from the terms today. Sharing is wonderful. Giving advice to new buyers as we do here on TUG is a bit different.

Is it still going to be common for a NEW DVC buyer today to "stay at ... (a deluxe resort) for less money than it would cost ... to stay at moderate/value resorts", given today's increase in prices and restrictions on resale??? That's a really important question for TUG posters and lurkers.

 

[littlestar]

That's a delightful post about enjoying a timeshare that was purchased to be used in the best way possible... but important to recognize that the terms of their 2009 purchase were DIFFERENT from the terms today. Sharing is wonderful. Giving advice to new buyers as we do here on TUG is a bit different.

Is it still going to be common for a NEW DVC buyer today to "stay at ... (a deluxe resort) for less money than it would cost ... to stay at moderate/value resorts", given today's increase in prices and restrictions on resale??? That's a really important question for TUG posters and lurkers.

I agree. The exit strategy risk has changed with the proposed restrictions for new DVC resorts if resold. To me, it is a game changer. I would not recommend a new DVC resort purchase that has the new restriction to my friends and relatives. I would tell them to look for a cash deal if they want to stay on Disney property (a discount code or rent from a DVC member via David’s Rentals). Or maybe a purchase at one of the original 14 DVC’s without the home resort restriction when resold.

 

[elaine]

To me, it is a game changer. I would not recommend a new DVC resort purchase that has the new restriction...Or maybe a purchase at one of the original 14 DVC’s without the home resort restriction when resold.

exactly my thoughts. IMHO, resale orig. 14 DVCs is still a good option for the person who primarily wants to stay at DVC and doesn't "have" to stay at the latest, greatest DVC.

 

[TravelTime]

I could have posted both of these, with the same experience as Dean. This is NOT the majority but it seems to me like a MUCH higher proportion of DVC members who display this attitude in their posts than of other high end timeshare owners... more so than Hyatt, Marriott, Four Seasons, HGVC, Hapimag (Europe), etc. Other owners delight in their ownership but don't seem to compare them to others in the disparaging terms the way DVC members have so often done. Just my opinion, like Dean's, based on over 20 years of frequenting newsgroups (pre-forums) and internet boards/forums. You are certainly welcome to disagree, with different experiences.

I would love to see some of those posts. Maybe you and Dean could cut and paste some so we will better understand this. I have not yet noticed it but maybe I don’t notice since I like Disney. Sometimes people are more aware of certain things than others because they have been more sensitized to it, for whatever reason.

 

[Lisa P]

I would love to see some of those posts. Maybe you and Dean could cut and paste some so we will better understand this.

LOL. I guess "seeing" is believing. I get it, you haven't had the same experience as me.
Truly, I'm not looking to convince you or anyone else to agree with me or my experiences. Whether someone on TUG shares an all-good experience or a mixed experience with Disney/DVC membership, resorts, or members on forums, it's no reflection on me or on you. It also doesn't warrant being labeled a "DVC hater", IMO. I can't condense 20+ years of DVC conversations and have no desire to hunt down posts for the sake of this discussion. Surely, we can amicably disagree on this point.

 

[TravelTime]

LOL. I guess "seeing" is believing. I get it, you haven't had the same experience as me.
Truly, I'm not looking to convince you or anyone else to agree with me or my experiences. Whether someone on TUG shares an all-good experience or a mixed experience with Disney/DVC membership, resorts, or members on forums, it's no reflection on me or on you. It also doesn't warrant being labeled a "DVC hater", IMO. I can't condense 20+ years of DVC conversations and have no desire to hunt down posts for the sake of this discussion. Surely, we can amicably disagree on this point.

I understand what you are saying and no need to post if that is too much work. I was just wondering. I do not mean to fight or challenge. I have just been posting my experience and my opinions. I do not take any of this personally. Frankly it is fun to hear different viewpoints.

 

[Dean]

I would love to see some of those posts. Maybe you and Dean could cut and paste some so we will better understand this. I have not yet noticed it but maybe I don’t notice since I like Disney. Sometimes people are more aware of certain things than others because they have been more sensitized to it, for whatever reason.

Maybe you could review posts on DVC Facebook, Mouseowners and DIS regarding the 2010/2011 reallocations, valet parking change and the current reallocation. All total likely well over 100 pages, that'd be a good start but only a start. But it's really not specific posts as much as it's information over time and the attitudes involved. It's been interesting to go from DVC basher on DIS to DVC apologist without any change in my own position as others opinions have changed when they stopped drinking the Kool-aid and swung far the other way. Personally I love DVC for what it is but I don't like to see people put themselves in jeopardy or spend a lot more than they should for a given options. For example, I've seen many people that bought DVC mainly for DCL cruising, IMO, a horrible approach.