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Don't Travel if you Don't Have To

CaliSunshine

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Yeah, I think domestic restrictions might be coming to stop the following behavior.

From https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/13/travel/coronavirus-travel-deals.html

Young, Confident and Flying, Virus Be Damned
For some people, a $50 plane ticket is too good a deal to pass up, even during a pandemic.
As people self-quarantine, work from home and generally wall themselves off from the outside world, Joe DeSimone is preparing to travel the globe.
In the last few weeks, the 30-year-old game design instructor from Austin, Texas, has booked two flights — to London and Toronto — and has getaways to Nashville and Los Angeles in the works.
He’s one of a number of young people who have watched airline ticket prices plunge in the wake of the coronavirus outbreak, and have seen it as their golden opportunity to travel.
“The way I see it,” Mr. DeSimone said, “either things will normalize and prices will return to a rate that makes it difficult for me to travel, or the world is going to end and I might as well enjoy it while it lasts.”
 

b2bailey

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"If you don't have to" -- how is that measured?
I made a commitment to care for my grand-daughter's two large dogs while she goes to Hawaii. Assuming she is able to travel, would my commitment to help her be a "have to" situation? I'm not unwilling, just wondering.
 

Talent312

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Aside from the issue of being stuffed into a sardine can with wings...
I'm not sure that its safer in my hometown than in my destination.
.
 

geekette

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"If you don't have to" -- how is that measured?
I made a commitment to care for my grand-daughter's two large dogs while she goes to Hawaii. Assuming she is able to travel, would my commitment to help her be a "have to" situation? I'm not unwilling, just wondering.
I, personally, would put care and feeding of living beings into the Have To category.
 

geekette

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30 year old traveller may have a bummer of a trip if he gets quarantined far from home in lodgings far less plush than imagined.
 

CanuckTravlr

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Young, Confident and Flying, Virus Be Damned
For some people, a $50 plane ticket is too good a deal to pass up, even during a pandemic.
In the last few weeks, the 30-year-old game design instructor from Austin, Texas, has booked two flights — to London and Toronto — and has getaways to Nashville and Los Angeles in the works.
I don't know about London, but good luck to him on his visit to Toronto.

Assuming arrival restrictions are not in place by the time he flies or keep him here when he goes to leave, I wish him well in finding something to do other than walk around outside. Pretty well everything he might want to see as a tourist is already shut down. Most tourist attractions are closed ...no sporting events, no large gatherings, many restaurants closed or only doing food by delivery, theatres closed, museums closed, the zoo closed and the list keeps growing.

Unbelievable arrogance or ignorance, not sure which...or perhaps both!!! :rolleyes::clap::rolleyes:
 
Last edited:

Luanne

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I just read about a couple that traveled from some yet unknown (or at least not reported) state on a non stop flight to Maui on March 2. They knew they had been exposed to the coronavirus. They both ended up in the urgent care on Maui (they were staying in Lahaina) and didn't disclose they'd been exposed. So, they then flew on to Kauai, when they are both now in the hospital on Kauai with the virus. Several health care worked are self quarantined as they weren't wearing the correct protective gear since this "lovely" couple didn't say they'd been exposed. Dh says they should be fed to the sharks. We were in Lahaina for one of the days they were there.
 

Luanne

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I don't know about London, but good luck to him on his visit to Toronto.

Assuming arrival restrictions are not in place by the time he flies or keep him here when he goes to leave, I wish him well in finding something to do other than walk around outside. Pretty well everything he might want to see as a tourist is already shut down. Most tourist attractions are closed ...no sporting events, no large gatherings, many restaurants closed or only doing food by delivery, theatres closed, museums closed, the zoo closed and the list keeps growing.

Unbelievable arrogance or ignorance, not sure which...or perhaps both!!! :rolleyes::clap::rolleyes:
Dd just had a work conference that was supposed to be in Toronto cancelled. They may try to do the workshop virtually. She's not sure yet.
 

Panina

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I just read about a couple that traveled from some yet unknown (or at least not reported) state on a non stop flight to Maui on March 2. They knew they had been exposed to the coronavirus. They both ended up in the urgent care on Maui (they were staying in Lahaina) and didn't disclose they'd been exposed. So, they then flew on to Kauai, when they are both now in the hospital on Kauai with the virus. Several health care worked are self quarantined as they weren't wearing the correct protective gear since this "lovely" couple didn't say they'd been exposed. Dh says they should be fed to the sharks. We were in Lahaina for one of the days they were there.
That is why the virus is spreading, people have their head in the sand and think of no one but themselves.
 

CaliSunshine

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"If you don't have to" -- how is that measured?
I made a commitment to care for my grand-daughter's two large dogs while she goes to Hawaii. Assuming she is able to travel, would my commitment to help her be a "have to" situation? I'm not unwilling, just wondering.

If you're over 50 and thinking about getting on a plane, my definition of "if you don't have to" is "I will lose my job or my health if I don't get on this plane." Anything less, to be honest, I wouldn't go.

Actual, not confirmed, coronavirus cases double every 6 days. Latest estimate out of Johns Hopkins is 50K people in the US already have it. https://thehill.com/policy/healthca...tes-at-least-50000-people-have-coronavirus-in In 6 days that will 100K. In another 6 days that will be 200K. So basically in two weeks, 1 out of every thousand Americans will have Coronavirus. 1 out of a thousand is not good odds when you're on a 300 person plane.

So if you're planning on flying in 2 weeks, Don't. If you're 50 or over, Don't. If you're flying for any reason other than your job or your health, don't.
 

CaliSunshine

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Aside from the issue of being stuffed into a sardine can with wings...
I'm not sure that its safer in my hometown than in my destination.
.

It's not necessarily safer in your hometown than your destination. It's a lot safer in your house if you don't leave. What I'm telling my parents is don't go out of the house except to go to the supermarket. And when you go to the supermarket wear a mask. And don't talk to anyone in person. And stay at least a few feet away from other people even in the supermarket.
 

CaliSunshine

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Note that the 50K is this doctor's LOW estimate. The HIGH estimate is half a million. If you like numbers, here are some more for you: https://qventus.com/blog/predicting-the-effects-of-the-covid-pandemic-on-us-health-system-capacity/

In 4 weeks we will start running out of hospital beds in this country. In 8 weeks we will run out of hospital beds in every single state in this country (some states will technically be under 100% utilization, but 90% utilization your state doesn't mean you will find a bed in your city; it might be several hours away).

That means if you get sick in a month or two, you are not guaranteed a hospital bed, you are not guaranteed a ventilator. We see this right now in Italy: old people who are on the cusp of death are not being treated because the doctors need to decide which of three patients to give the bed and ventilator to and they decide that it's better to give it to the young and healthier person because they have a higher chance of surviving and more years to live.
 

T_R_Oglodyte

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"If you don't have to" -- how is that measured?
I made a commitment to care for my grand-daughter's two large dogs while she goes to Hawaii. Assuming she is able to travel, would my commitment to help her be a "have to" situation? I'm not unwilling, just wondering.
Let's see. This is a granddaughter, so I'm guessing that you fit into the older age group for whom COVID-19 is a particular health risk. Seems the trade-off here is between you undertaking an activity which could result in you being exposed to the virus amd getting seriously ill and exposing everyone in your household, and everyone in the plane as you return back to your house as an asymptomatic carrier. Versus her putting the dogs in a kennel (if she can't find someone else to care for them).

I would hope that your granddaughter would say "Please don't make the trip Grandma. Your health and well-being is much more important." And if she doesn't feel that way, perhaps someone should try to talk some sense into her. Or, ultimately, if she thinks so little of you that it's not a big deal to her if you get sick and spread the virus, then why are you bending over backward to help out someone who's that indifferent to putting you and your household at risk?

**********

Personally, I think this isn't anywhere near being a close call on the "have to travel" criterion.
 

bbodb1

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I just read about a couple that traveled from some yet unknown (or at least not reported) state on a non stop flight to Maui on March 2. They knew they had been exposed to the coronavirus. They both ended up in the urgent care on Maui (they were staying in Lahaina) and didn't disclose they'd been exposed. So, they then flew on to Kauai, when they are both now in the hospital on Kauai with the virus. Several health care worked are self quarantined as they weren't wearing the correct protective gear since this "lovely" couple didn't say they'd been exposed. Dh says they should be fed to the sharks. We were in Lahaina for one of the days they were there.

DH is correct!
 

heathpack

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Aside from the issue of being stuffed into a sardine can with wings...
I'm not sure that its safer in my hometown than in my destination.
.

But it’s a helpful thing to the rest of society if you don’t contribute to moving the virus from place to place. Your hometown might have it already, and you might be incubating an infection, while your destination might not have it. Or vice versa. So if you don’t travel when you don’t need to, you won’t contribute to dragging infection from point A to point B. It’s one of those “for the greater good” things.

It’s time for Americans to stop thinking individualistically (as is our cultural habit) and start thinking about what’s best for the overall population. It’s a huge paradigm shift but really important.
 

Maple_Leaf

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ISIS issues travel advice: Terrorists should avoid traveling to Europe.
 

T_R_Oglodyte

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But it’s a helpful thing to the rest of society if you don’t contribute to moving the virus from place to place. Your hometown might have it already, and you might be incubating an infection, while your destination might not have it. Or vice versa. So if you don’t travel when you don’t need to, you won’t contribute to dragging infection from point A to point B. It’s one of those “for the greater good” things.

It’s time for Americans to stop thinking individualistically (as is our cultural habit) and start thinking about what’s best for the overall population. It’s a huge paradigm shift but really important.
Precisely!!!
 

cerralee

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I live in a small town., less than ten thousand people. One of the first Pennsylvania cases was diagnosed less than a mile from my house and the infected person visited several coffee shops and eating establishments before going to be tested. As I am very recently out of initial treatment from cancer I was not very happy to hear of where this person was prior to being tested. It was never put out on the media where this person had been but still, thwre are places I would have avoided if I had known.
 

Big Matt

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Here are some things that folks don't see unless you are looking for it. Number one: people aren't flying starting about one to two weeks out. I know that becuase I have a trip to Los Angeles to visit my son who is out there on an internship. It's been planned for a while and I bought the tickets a month ago. The plane was half full at the time. As of this morning this 777 airplane has 6 seats sold. It will be pretty easy to keep spread out. Second, most companies have put a ban on travel. Most ban non-essential travel. Some are banning all travel for a couple of weeks. So people aren't going to be crammed into planes like sardines. I'm just not sure why the airlines haven't started cancelling or consolidating most of their flights.
 

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If you're over 50 and thinking about getting on a plane, my definition of "if you don't have to" is "I will lose my job or my health if I don't get on this plane." Anything less, to be honest, I wouldn't go.
I would absolutely ditch the job to save my life. I am Hard No on mass transit of any kind. I can replace the job later, I cannot replace myself.

It has been many decades since I ever felt "Had To" applied to the job. I have on occasion kept my integrity and left the job without another. I can, will, and have Said NO plenty of times. And this is so much more than taking a stand on morals, it's a life and death situation. And not just for you, but for everyone you go home to or visit.

Nobody gets to risk my life for their profit. Nobody.
 
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