Donate for a Cause?

[brigechols]

Why would a lawyer not join his professional organization?
Do they require you to conform to a higher ethics than non-members?

It is not unusual for an attorney to opt out of joining the state bar association if they actually practice in another state. Furthermore, a state bar association is one if many professional organizations for an attorney e.g., American Bar Association.

there is not a higher ethics requirement placed on members of these professional organizations.

 

[Amy]

It is not unusual for an attorney to opt out of joining the state bar association if they actually practice in another state. Furthermore, a state bar association is one if many professional organizations for an attorney e.g., American Bar Association.

I believe in most states, the state bar association is MANDATORY with respect to membership if you want to remain licensed in that state, even if only licensed on "inactive" status (meaning you are not practicing in that state); it is my understanding that only in a few states is membership voluntary. The ABA is a wholly voluntary professional association.

I looked into the CO situation a bit more and apparently the Colorado Bar's website's "Find a Lawyer" link, unlike similar links on many other state bar websites, does not allow one to search for all members licensed in that state; rather, Colorado's "Find a Lawyer" link is a link to its referral service. So attorneys who opt out of the referral service wouldn't be included.

 

[Amy]

It could be the DIF score given to the return or the extra form required to be filed with a non-cash contribution of over $500.

What is the "DIF score"?

 

[brigechols]

I believe in most states, the state bar association is MANDATORY with respect to membership if you want to remain licensed in that state, even if only licensed on "inactive" status (meaning you are not practicing in that state); it is my understanding that only in a few states is membership voluntary. The ABA is a wholly voluntary professional association.

I looked into the CO situation a bit more and apparently the Colorado Bar's website's "Find a Lawyer" link, unlike similar links on many other state bar websites, does not allow one to search for all members licensed in that state; rather, Colorado's "Find a Lawyer" link is a link to its referral service. So attorneys who opt out of the referral service wouldn't be included.

There is a statewide voluntary bar association in every state. To the best of my knowledge, there are no mandatory state bar associations. The state bar is not responsible for attorney licenses or registration. That responsibility falls on the state's board of law examiners. If you want to determine whether someone is admitted to practice law in a particular state, go to the website of the agency that licenses attorneys in that state. If the information is not available online, there is generally a phone number to call and check on the status of an attorney. I say all of this to make this point - Mr. Tarpey is licensed to practice law in the state of Colorado. His registration number is correctly reported in this thread. This information may be verified online if you go to the correct website. Am I a member of the Colorado Bar? No, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night

 

[Amy]

There is a statewide voluntary bar association in every state. To the best of my knowledge, there are no mandatory state bar associations.

I'm sorry, but this is incorrect. California, for example, has a mandatory state bar association. See, e.g., the About the Bar page, which states, in part:

Created by the state legislature in 1927, the State Bar is a public corporation within the judicial branch of government, serving as an arm of the California Supreme Court. All State Bar members are officers of the court.
Membership in the State Bar of California affords attorneys the right and privilege of practicing law in this state.

(Emphasis added).

If you are not a member of the State Bar of California, you are not permitted to practice law in California.

Oregon also has a similar mandatory membership in its state bar. Its state bar is an arm of the state judicial branch:

The Oregon State Bar (OSB) was established in 1935 by the Oregon Legislative Assembly to license and discipline lawyers, regulate the practice of law, and provide a variety of services to bar members and the public. The bar is a public corporation and an instrumentality of the Oregon Judicial Department.

I just did a quick online search to see if anyone has put together a list of mandatory bars and discovered Wiki has such a list -- apparently just a slight majority: see here but quoted for your convenience:

Some states require membership in the state's bar association to practice law there. Such an organization is called a mandatory, integrated, or unified bar.[1][2] They exist at present in a slight majority of U.S. states, including Alabama (Alabama State Bar), Alaska, Arizona (State Bar of Arizona), California (State Bar of California), Florida (Florida Bar), Georgia (State Bar of Georgia), Idaho, Kentucky, Louisiana, Michigan (State Bar of Michigan), Minnesota, Mississippi, Missouri, Montana, Nebraska, Nevada, New Hampshire, New Mexico, North Dakota, Oklahoma, Oregon (Oregon State Bar), Rhode Island (Rhode Island Bar Association), South Carolina (South Carolina Bar), South Dakota, Texas (State Bar of Texas), Utah, Virginia (Virginia State Bar), Washington (Washington State Bar Association), West Virginia, Wisconsin, and Wyoming. The District of Columbia, the U.S. Virgin Islands, Puerto Rico, Guam and the Northern Mariana Islands also have unified bars.

 

[Charlie D.]

Every so many years the IRS does a round of in-depth audits called TCMP (tax compliance measurement program) audits. Every line item on the return that has an entry is audited. Married filing joint – show me your marriage certificate. Dependants – show me their birth certificates. Charitable contributions – show me the cancelled checks/other documentation to prove it.

Different categories of taxpayers are audited. Single with less than $30k income reported, Single with $30-$40k income, etc. Then on to Married filing jointly at various income levels. Then on to corporations of various sizes. Based upon the results of these audits, a trend can be established. If the normal contributions for a married filing jointly return showing $100k of income is 4% then the DIF may assign 0 or very few points for a return that has that same ratio. However, if the contributions are 10% of the income, DIF may assign 50-60 points for that line item on the return. After the return has been assigned the various points for all the line items a total DIF score is calculated.

The returns with DIF scores over the magic cut-off line for that particular year are selected for review by a human. If there appears to be potential for errors the return is sent to the IRS office near where the taxpayer lives. The taxpayer may then receive a letter requesting they and or a representative come visit the office and provide documentation to support what ever on the return looks unusual. Corporations are normally visited by the revenue agent.

By the way, the IRS also has a matching program that matches up the information it receives from 3rd parties with what is reported on the return. If the total of the taxable income reported on W-2s from the employers is more than the W-2 income on the return that could be handled as a correspondence audit. Something like, you reported $100k and the W-2s IRS received show $110, it appears as if you underreported your income by $10k. Please sign and forward the agreement to pay the $1,500 of additional tax liability plus the calculated interest and penalties. Of course it could be an error in which case the employer would be requested to forward a corrected W-2 so that everything is cool.

Charlie D.

 

[brigechols]

This discussion started because of an allegation that Mr. Tarpey is not a licensed attorney. The answer remains the same - yes, he is licensed to practice law in the state of Colorado. Mr. Tarpey lives in a different state and does not practice in Colorado so that could be the reason why he is not a member of the Colorado State Bar Association.

:deadhorse:

 

[Amy]

I don't understand your dead horse image. Are you directing that to me because I corrected your misstatement about the existence of mandatory state bars in the U.S.? That issue only came up because you said there are no mandatory state bars. I directed you to the correct answer and have not tried to post a second post to beat a dead horse so to speak.

 

[brigechols]

I don't understand your dead horse image. Are you directing that to me

Yes

because I corrected your misstatement about the existence of mandatory state bars in the U.S.?

No. Because in spite of information contained in this thread and further information which is available online, your post, along with others, fail to recognize that Mr. Tarpey is licensed to practice law in Colorado.

you said there are no mandatory state bars

I said To the best of my knowledge, there are no mandatory state bar associations.

 

[Amy]

No. Because in spite of information contained in this thread and further information which is available online, your post, along with others, fail to recognize that Mr. Tarpey is licensed to practice law in Colorado.

Probably because once someone confirmed he was licensed, no one cared about that point anymore?

 

[chriskre]

This has been a very lively and informative thread.

Thanks everyone for your input.

 

[Robert D]

I just stumbled on this thread and have found it very entertaining. I have to agree with the opinion expressed that this DFAC outfit is pretty slimey. I haven't seen their website, only the excerpts in this thread but it not only appears they are misleading people about (a) fees paid to get rid of your TS being tax deductible (they are not because you are receiving value for these payments) and (b) overstating the value of your TS (that you have to pay them to take off your hands) for tax purposes, but it also appears they are in the business of selling fraudulent tax appraisals to justify your tax deduction for a fee. I wonder what % of their revenues are actually donated to a legitimate charity. My guess is if the IRS did an audit of this "charity" and their claims, that they would soon no longer be a charity.

 

[Dave M]

My guess is if the IRS did an audit of this "charity" and their claims, that they would soon no longer be a charity.

To the contrary, they seem to fulfill their exempt purpose better than many charitable entities that have to advertise to generate revenues, including numerous large charities that I served as clients during my career as a CPA. In 2007, the most recent year for which their tax return is available to the public, they show that they donated $330,838 to other charities. The listed charities on their website include American Cancer Society, American Kidney Fund, and United Cerebral Palsy.

In addition, most of the rest of their expenses were related to the generation of the revenue for the contributions they make. Only $37,726 was related to general management expenses (salaries, rent, legal fees, etc.) that were not directly related to raising revenue for making contributions to other charities.

Certainly, they don't come close to the low expense percentage of United Way and other charities that rely heavily on unpaid volunteers to raise funds. That doesn't diminish the good that they do.

 

[alexadeparis]

ok, this is off topic, but it needs a response for the laypeople . . .

Why would a lawyer not join his professional organization?
Do they require you to conform to a higher ethics than non-members?

No, it's not that. The bar associations are a fee grab, including and especially the ABA.

I am licensed in two states, one where the Bar association is mandatory (WI). My yearly license there costs me $275.
In the other state (IL), where it's voluntary, my license is $125 (or so). So why the difference in cost? It appears the "unified" bar in WI costs me $150 a year. There is currently a debate as to whether WI should continue this way, or make it a voluntary bar. I hope it becomes voluntary.

BUT, in both states, there are a number of bar associations in that state that they want you to join besides the state one: the county, the major city, the region (multiple counties). PLUS, all of these bar associations have "sections" that they want you to join that cost even more just to get a bunch of newsletters.

Don't even get me started on the "special" bars : gender, ethnicity, etc. I could easily spend over $5k a year on this BS if I bought into the idea that I needed to join them all. So I only join the ones that provide real benefits to me, like free legal research, reduced costs for Continuing Legal Ed, etc.