Do not buy from this seller: pennyrcipoints!

[smoothie24]

Real estate deeds do not require the signature of the recipient (grantee). They only require the notarized signature of the owner (grantor) that owns the tile and then can simply go down to the recorder's office, pays the transfer fee and any applicable taxes and records it. Hoila! The recipient, in this case you, is now the owner. Timeshare deeds may be different but I'm guessing it isn't.

That being said, you can return the favor and do the same thing and grant it back. You do not have to go through escrow or a lawyer to do this. It's amazing how simple transfers can be done. I'll admit that when you purchase real estate, most transactions occur through escrow with all the proper signatures obtained for both sides of the transaction. But there's nothing illegal with not using escrow and just granting the property. This is similar to a transfer when you deed your interest to a property to your spouse. The receiving spouse's signature isn't required. Why you would do that is up to you but this inter-spousal transfer deed is used all the time.

 

[JudyS]

I suggested that the people caught up in this problem send a "lawyer letter" to the seller and the resort saying they will not accept ownership.

Theo responded:

Unfortunately, this slippery seller can (and very likely will) easily make the readily available and obvious assertion that the mere act of hitting that "Buy it Now" button was, in and of itself, overt performance of the legally requisite act of "acceptance" by the buyer. A new deed could be prepared and recorded before any attorney correspondence even gets generated.

I'm not saying that the slippery seller is right (or honest), just that his/her position is likely quite predictable and, unfortunately, maybe also has some merit. After all, what is it that can be portrayed (after the fact) as being somehow unclear about the intent of those three words "Buy it Now"?

I really don't know if the deed would hold up in court or not. But, I don't think that really matters. The point of the lawyer letter is to show that one intends to fight this. Hopefully, that alone will persuade the seller to back down.

 

[ampaholic]

I suggested that the people caught up in this problem send a "lawyer letter" to the seller and the resort saying they will not accept ownership.

I suggest they also send a copy of the letter to the county recorder with a deed deeding the TS over to Pennyrcipoints.

I would also include a note to the recorder stating your right to not have property recorded in your name without your permission.

Serve the PCC right to have a county recorder miffed at them.

Many states have a law on the books called "abuse of process" hummmm?

 

[wackymother]

I suggest contacting eBay to let them know about this new scam. It may not do much good, but they might add a warning somewhere that tells people not to click Buy It Now just to "get more information."

 

[theo]

Not universally correct...

Real estate deeds do not require the signature of the recipient (grantee). They only require the notarized signature of the owner (grantor).....

There are indeed states in which both grantor and grantee signatures are required on a deed. It matters not at all that it's a timeshare deed; it's still a real estate transaction in which state requirements prevail.

[/QUOTE]....there's nothing illegal with not using escrow and just granting the property [/QUOTE]

Assuming that the grantee is informed and accepting. Absent grantee knowledge or acceptance, granting to an uninvolved and unknowing party would constitute criminally actionable fraud. :deadhorse:

 

[theo]

Timing is everything...

I suggested that the people caught up in this problem send a "lawyer letter" to the seller and the resort saying they will not accept ownership...... The point of the lawyer letter is to show that one intends to fight this. Hopefully, that alone will persuade the seller to back down.

I don't disagree at all with the thought or the strategy, but the simple fact remains that if the seller is truly of focused ill intent, it is highly likely that the deed will be recorded long before any such attorney correrspondence even gets generated...

 

[tnlewis]

I recently purchased 2 resale ts and I too was also quite surprised that I did not have to sign the deed paperwork. But, both deeds stated a dollar amount for the sale and in both cases I had a purchase agreement signed by both parties. I would think that the county recorder would void the new deed if the seller could not provide proof of the sale----not just a "buy it now" tab on a non-binding sale site on ebay.

 

[jghall]

Deed

The Clark County Clerk records documents and are not in the business of deciding if the deed is valid or not. For instance, a deed is still valid whether it is recorded or not....recording just helps protect the interest of the owner....and various other reasons. They would even record the document "I Hate Elvis" if you mail it in with proper payment

I would first ascertain what exactly I own before I started spending $$ on lawyers to get the deal undone. You might have an asset that you could resell or at the very least give away

 

[Jennie]

I wonder if this person is also advertising on TUG?

http://tug2.com/TimeshareMarketplac...tingGUID=28a5d25d-4dee-45a5-a75f-6ac744207e26

Seems eerily familiar ....

Not necessarily so. There are some independent resorts (not part of a group) that acquire RCI Points for weeks that the resort owns due to deed-backs, foreclosures, or were never able to sell in the first place. They are usually off-season weeks with poor trading power in the Weeks program, and not usually reserved by owners as bonus time.

Some resorts have converted these weeks into RCI Points and "rent" them, usually to their owners in good standing, for about a penny a point. It is a one time transaction without assuming ownership or any on-going responsibility or fees.

The fees the resort collects from these one time transactions helps compensate for the loss of maintenance fees from the non-performing "underlying" weeks. One must have an RCI Points account into which the Points will be transferred.

I've utilized it many times through one stand alone resort where we own prime fixed-deeded weeks.

Anyone interested in obtaining extra Points on an as-needed basis needs to inquire about the source of the Points being offered and the resort from which the Points have been issued.

Also, individual owners can (and often do) transfer Points to another Points member account. Some people simply cannot use all the points they have, for various reasons. It's a simple process to transfer them and they usually show up in your account within an hour or two. So you will know that it is legitimate. Just ask the right questions.

 

[Talent312]

The named grantee can only get a recorded deed set aside by a court order, i.e. a lawsuit. The seller might agree to accept+record a deed-back rather than find themselves defending such a suit. The resort might agree to reverse the transfer rather than be named as a party, or co-conspirator.

However, directing a letter to the county recorder would accomplish nothing. Recording documents is not a discretionary act. As long as the document meets minimum statutory requirements, the county recorder must record the deed, without regard to the validity of the underlying transaction.

Criminal statutes prohibit fraudulent recordable instruments. But they are commonly used to prosecute folks who sell the same property twice or more. Most law enforcement investigators and prosecutors would likely say this is a civil matter and decline to act, but if you find one with an interest in real estate, who knows. They could pressure the seller to "make it right."

 

[Rent_Share]

Ron is correct. You can deed a property to someone without their signature. Supposedly, there is to be acceptance, so you must get an email that says they accept the timeshare, or a contract, or a payment with the notation of what you are paying for. What if that step is skipped? You have the burden of proof as the new owner that you didn't want the week, or you have to hire a lawyer at a price. It's very hard to get rid of a timeshare, let alone one that someone deeds to you without knowledge.

As I said before, I had a deed quitclaimed to me from someone who found me on TUG about three years ago, maybe four. He asked if I wanted the timeshare, I said NO, he quitclaimed it anyway, and then it was my hassle to deal with. I gave it away on TUG.

We paid two years' of past due fees. It was in my name that long without me realizing it. The guy was scum.

It truly could happen to any of us. I hate to give people any ideas who are perusing this site.

RE-READ THIS POST

This is one of the brightest posters on this board - and she was the victim of "pass the trash"

It was simpler to pay two years of maintenance fees to be able to transfer to someone who wanted the week, than engage an attorney to undo the fraudulent transfer.

The underlying documents are intended for real estate under the assumption the deeded property will always have real value. Why require acceptance on the face of the document, since who would grant an interest in something of value without adequeate consideration. That doesn't pass the timeshare smell test

YMMV

 

[ampaholic]

RCW (Revised Code of Washington) 9.62.020

Every person who shall institute or prosecute any action or other proceeding in the name of another, without his consent and contrary to law, shall be guilty of a gross misdemeanor.

[1909 c 249 § 124; RRS § 2376.]

Seems pretty clear to me - I doubt any County Recorder would want to be involved in the commission of gross misdemeanors.

Just sayin' ....

 

[MuranoJo]

Ron is correct. You can deed a property to someone without their signature. Supposedly, there is to be acceptance, so you must get an email that says they accept the timeshare, or a contract, or a payment with the notation of what you are paying for. What if that step is skipped? You have the burden of proof as the new owner that you didn't want the week, or you have to hire a lawyer at a price. It's very hard to get rid of a timeshare, let alone one that someone deeds to you without knowledge.

As I said before, I had a deed quitclaimed to me from someone who found me on TUG about three years ago, maybe four. He asked if I wanted the timeshare, I said NO, he quitclaimed it anyway, and then it was my hassle to deal with. I gave it away on TUG.

We paid two years' of past due fees. It was in my name that long without me realizing it. The guy was scum.

It truly could happen to any of us. I hate to give people any ideas who are perusing this site.

It never ceases to amaze me how these types can sleep at night.

 

[JudyS]

I don't disagree at all with the thought or the strategy, but the simple fact remains that if the seller is truly of focused ill intent, it is highly likely that the deed will be recorded long before any such attorney correrspondence even gets generated...

Could be, but a lot of the PCC companies seem to take forever to record anything. At any rate, if a "buyer" sends a lawyer letter regarding this situation, the letter should state that if the timeshare is already in their name, they want it taken out of their name.

 

[Rent_Share]

Seems pretty clear to me - I doubt any County Recorder would want to be involved in the commission of gross misdemeanors.

Just sayin' ....

NOT MY JOB MAN - IMHO the grantee could say Mickey Mouse and they would record it

 

[theo]

Another $0.02 worth...

...who would grant an interest in something of value without adequeate consideration.

Intra-family deed transfers of timeshare weeks occur all the time with the only "consideration" essentially being "good will". In even far greater numbers, of course, "dog" timeshare weeks routinely get sold these days with the "consideration" being their actual current market value (i.e., a dollar or less).

Any materially complete deed can be successfully recorded in most places with relative ease.
That said, an invalid deed can certainly be voided and set aside later, albeit certainly not with the same ease (and, with attorney fees, certainly not at the same minimal cost as to initially record same).

 

[e.bram]

Legally it might be considered a good sale. The OP clicked buy it now(electronic signature in the electronic world, ie. you can file taxes )and billed the OP(consideration). The seller performed and could legally demand payment. buyer's remorse is not a valid reason to get out of a signed(digitally in 2011) contract.

 

[theo]

Not finding e.bram input to be ALL nonsense, for the first (and likely last) time...

Legally it might be considered a good sale. The OP clicked buy it now....

The possibility that using the "buy it now" button may constitute lawful "acceptance" has already been posed and discussed earlier within this very same thread, as has the possibility that no actual payment may ever actually be demanded by this seller at all if that seller chooses to instead attempt to assert that "good will" alone is sufficient "consideration". This latter possibility (maybe soon to be confirmed by a recorded deed) would then clearly indicate that the intrepid, slippery seller is / was actually more interested in just "dumping" the ownership onto someone else, as opposed to having a goal of actually receiving any money.

We shall all see here soon enough, I suspect, as the saga unfolds further...

 

[PeggyO]

About the deed matter.
In Oregon, you can create a deed for real property, usually a Quit Claim would be easiest, fill out the information, releasing yourself from any ownership in favor or anyone you choose. You can record it, and the person wouldn't know anything until the tax statement came in the mail. I'd guess that is true in most other states as well.


What I don't understand is how the resort allowed the transfer without the new owner sending a signed an agreement that they would be responsible for the MF.

I gave a way a timeshare and the resort required a transfer fee, and a signed, notarized letter that the new owner would assume responsibility for the MF.

So I'd be wondering how the resort/timeshare could be expecting to collect any fees without a signed agreement by the new owner.

Good luck on this - sounds very messy.

 

[T_R_Oglodyte]

Legally it might be considered a good sale. The OP clicked buy it now(electronic signature in the electronic world, ie. you can file taxes )and billed the OP(consideration).

Free legal advice is worth what you pay for it. IMHO - that would be a gross overpayment in this case.

 

[ampaholic]

Free legal advice is worth what you pay for it. IMHO - that would be a gross overpayment in this case.

:hysterical: :hysterical: :hysterical: :hysterical: :hysterical:

 

[theo]

Unusual...

What I don't understand is how the resort allowed the transfer without the new owner sending a signed an agreement that they would be responsible for the MF.

I gave a way a timeshare and the resort required a transfer fee, and a signed, notarized letter that the new owner would assume responsibility for the MF.

So I'd be wondering how the resort/timeshare could be expecting to collect any fees without a signed agreement by the new owner.

In the specific matter under discussion in this thread, a new deed (whether valid or not) has not yet actually surfaced at all. We're awaiting updates to the saga...

To the issue of "signed maintenance fee responsibility" documents, I have never personally encountered any such thing in my own 25+ years of timeshare ownership, purchases and / or sales. I'm not saying that it's a good or bad (...or even a legally meaningful...) idea or action; I'm just saying that the practice is statistically very unusual.

Generally speaking, a resort just gets a copy of a new recorded deed reflecting a new owner name and address and the resort then just changes its' maintenance fee bill recipient accordingly. Frankly, I'm not sure how (...or even if...) an additional "signed agreement" in any way enhances the strength of a recorded deed; it may basically just confirm to the resorts' own bookeeping satisfaction that the new owner is indeed a knowing, willing grantee who is aware that they are the new owner of record...

 

[Talent312]

Legally it might be considered a good sale. The OP clicked buy it now (electronic signature in the electronic world, ie. you can file taxes ) and billed the OP(consideration). The seller performed and could legally demand payment.

In my state, at least, a contract to convey real estate must still be both in writing and executed with a "wet" signature. Pressing an electronic button does not count becuz the there is no way the offer could contain all the many variables of a real estate transaction.

Personally, I'd try to get a prosecutor where the property is located to take this on as a fraud. If they refuse to do so, ask: "So, if I quitclaimed this TS to you, right now, and you wouldn't do anything about it? Can I have your name?"

 

[chriskre]

In my state, at least, a contract to convey real estate must still be both in writing and executed with a "wet" signature. Pressing an electronic button does not count becuz the there is no way the offer could contain all the many variables of a real estate transaction.

Personally, I'd try to get a prosecutor where the property is located to take this on as a fraud. If they refuse to do so, ask: "So, if I quitclaimed this TS to you, right now, and you wouldn't do anything about it? Can I have your name?"

Well I live in Florida and inquired about a property in Weston, FL so if this somehow ends up in my name, then I guess I'll be seeing what the FL Attorney Generals office can do with this. Maybe they'll want it.

 

[gnorth16]

Why not set up fake ebay account and have some fun with this guy???

Create a new email at gmail, pick a random name, city and give him the run around...

Scam the scamers???

Anyone know if Lynn0062 is the same seller? Ads look the same.