Discussion of Trusted HGVC brokers and buying from Ebay

[tnsna]

Received deed this weekend (Dec 3) on a 5k Boulevard vegas property that we bought through Diane Nadeau (Time share Broker sales. The docs were provided by TRS, Inc.
Received email this am (Dec 6) with our contract number.
5K points/$1500 price tag/$899.23 MF

Total transaction fees prior to Hilton activation fees were around $2500
Points are in our account!!!

Oct 28th was beginning and Dec 6 was the finish line.....39 days!!!

 

[lockewong]

Received deed this weekend (Dec 3) on a 5k Boulevard vegas property that we bought through Diane Nadeau (Time share Broker sales. The docs were provided by TRS, Inc.
Received email this am (Dec 6) with our contract number.
5K points/$1500 price tag/$899.23 MF

Total transaction fees prior to Hilton activation fees were around $2500
Points are in our account!!!

Oct 28th was beginning and Dec 6 was the finish line.....39 days!!!

Congratulations! I have been in contract since mid-October and am waiting for the final recordation. Fingers crossed. I love Diane Nadeau. She is so responsive and so knowledgeable.

 

[HuskerATL]

Congratulations! I have been in contract since mid-October and am waiting for the final recordation. Fingers crossed. I love Diane Nadeau. She is so responsive and so knowledgeable.

I will say that Diane was great on a prior resale purchase but then I tried to buy another one, gave her my offer and she was going to present it to the sellers then I never heard from her again.

 

[Nowaker]

I will say that Diane was great on a prior resale purchase but then I tried to buy another one, gave her my offer and she was going to present it to the sellers then I never heard from her again.

This is consistent with my experience with both Diane and Judi. They don't present offers to the sellers. They'll both ghost you when you make offers. Their listings are basically unreasonably priced, usually double of what sellingtimeshares.net has. (What @lockewong got is reasonable, though) From what I see on Facebook groups, Judi is absolutely loved by the crowd there. But it's the sort of crowd that isn't very knowledgable, and you normally wouldn't suspect them of having ability to acquire much knowledge... to say it subtly. I think these agents cater to a different type of customer. I feel like, they cater to a customer that got suckered in by the timeshare developer first, and then they sucker them in again... Lower price, but still pricey compared to other agents or Ebay.

 

[alwysonvac]

This is consistent with my experience with both Diane and Judi. They don't present offers to the sellers. They'll both ghost you when you make offers. Their listings are basically unreasonably priced, usually double of what sellingtimeshares.net has. (What @lockewong got is reasonable, though) From what I see on Facebook groups, Judi is absolutely loved by the crowd there. But it's the sort of crowd that isn't very knowledgable, and you normally wouldn't suspect them of having ability to acquire much knowledge... to say it subtly. I think these agents cater to a different type of customer. I feel like, they cater to a customer that got suckered in by the timeshare developer first, and then they sucker them in again... Lower price, but still pricey compared to other agents or Ebay.

For the record, let me just say everyone doesn’t have this same opinion of Diane and Judi.
On TUG, we tell newbies about frequently mentioned broker websites including Diane & Judi’s site, so they can avoid resale scams. I’ve bought from both including two last year from Judi’s website.

I find it insulting to indicate that those who use Diane and Judi’s sites are suckers or less knowledgeable.
They have prices in all ranges. Prices will vary from time to time depending how motivated the sellers are. Some sellers are firm on their selling price.

And as I said before, if you don’t like their prices shop around.

Here’s what I wrote on a different thread and posting here.
I won’t expect a resale agent to get you the absolute lowest prices. Their prices will be higher due to their commission and in return they offer a level of security from the resale scammers. Keep in mind, these sellers spent tens of thousands for their week if they originally bought from the developer.

With the recommended agents, I just look for a reasonable price, not bargain basement prices unless we’re going through a time of uncertainty like last year with Covid-19. Sellers who use a resale agent generally expect to get more for their week. So if you’re looking for the absolute lowest prices then you’ll have to hunt for it yourself via the various websites (eBay, Redweek, etc).

Tips for those who don’t have any experience with Judi and Diane
With Judi’s website, since I’m not in a rush, I simply wait until a price appears close to the price that I’m willing to pay then make my offer.
With Diane, I was looking for a specific resort at HHV. Diane seems to prefer to talk to a person rather than communicate via email. But you have to follow up with Diane. When she didn’t get back to me after we spoke, I sent her a follow up email a few days later summarizing our conversation and my current ownership. Perhaps that‘s how she weeds out those who aren’t serious. She responded immediately to my email and found what I was looking for within the week.
Anyone that has experience with trying to rent a timeshare knows that there are lots of folks that will waste your time asking questions with no intentions of really buying anything.

NOTE: There are several brokers that work with HGVC.

Here’s what Seth from sellingtimeshares.net wrote back in 2008 about HGVC resales and commission paid to HGVC.

​

Hilton has a department that specializes in resales. There are 4 people who work on the developer property end and about 10 people who work on the affiliate resale end. There are about 10 brokerage companies that are authorized resale companies. There are no plans to eliminate the ability to have resale buyers be allowed to trade. Resale owner units cannot be stripped of rights. Hilton does not intend to do that because as resale prices fall, rescission rates go up.

Hi Joegish,
I am a Hilton Authorized Resales Broker. They receive a commission on EVERY unit that I sell that I do not own, regardless of whether they supply the seller to me, I supply the seller or another broker supplies the seller. Personally, I don't think it matters whether you use an Authorized broker or not as long as you use a licensed, bonded and competent escrow company. Who did you confirm that there were no authorized resellers with? If they want to give to me the 10s of thousands in commission checks that were sent to Hilton last year from my deals from my company, I would be happy to relinquish that title.
Hilton provides major support to the resale market. They take listings, email me, and the other authorized resellers updated listings almost every week in an excel spreadsheet and emails us whenever they get a listing below market. Typically, 1 of us has a buyer for that unit within hours. What additional support would you like them to provide? Hilton's resale department is responsible for about 10 million dollars worth of sales per year. I think that is pretty respectable.

Here’s what Judi wrote back in 2016 & 2017 regarding resale prices. She does’t deny that they try to keep resale values up. Honestly this is good for all owners (because most buyers will eventually become sellers sooner or later ). As owners, we never want to join the thousands of others on eBay and other sites trying to unload worthless timeshares.

​

To avoid the reputation of selling units that I know or think will be picked up by ROFR I advise my buyers to offer what I think will pass. If I did it the other way I would get paid for the sale and the buyer would be upset because they didn't get the property and the seller is upset because they think I sold it too low. Often the sales on ebay and other venues the "Sellers" or their agents will falsify the paperwork to get the sale through. The buyer then thinks they got a great deal and then my clients think I am over selling. Not true. I try to do what is best for everyone involved.

Hilton-HGVC -Commission
The way this works is if we write a sale at a lower price the unit will be exercised on and we will get paid. Then we sell the Buyer another unit and get paid again. That doesn't make your plan work. We try to get a higher price because we owe it to the Seller to keep the values up. If we know the Developer is going to exercise on the unit and we still write it shame on us.
The right thing to do is to sell the unit above the ROFR and then you have a happy buyer and seller and agent. Doing the right thing is important to us.

​

 

[Nowaker]

On TUG, we tell newbies about frequently mentioned broker websites including Diane & Judi’s site, so they can avoid resale scams. I’ve bought from both including two last year from Judi’s website.

All I'm saying: why them, if sellingtimeshares.net (Seth Nock / Samuel Rodriguez) offer the same for considerably less. If the price from Diane / Judi is 2-3x the price from sellingtimeshares.net (real life example: a month ago, Flamingo 7k for $4250 from ST.net, and the others had this for $8K with no 2022 points, or $9K with 2022 points), this is in the "sucker in" territory for me. We may have different opinions where that territory is.

 

[Lodemia]

On the topic of Diane - in my first conversation with her, I wasn't impressed. The second time we talked, I had my ducks in order and knew exactly what I wanted and what I was willing to pay. She presented my offer, even though I heard time and time again how good it was, and the sellers accepted. For the second transaction, the sellers countered, and I got somewhat cold feet - the counter offer didn't "feel right" so I walked. She said it was such a great deal that she had it sold by the EOD. I wouldn't hesitate to work with her again, but she's doing her job maximizing her commission. As long as you keep that in mind, it's workable.

 

[Lodemia]

The sucker territory is here: https://www.sellmytimesharenow.com.

May I present to you a 7k boulevard deed for $90k..... https://www.sellmytimesharenow.com/timeshares/index/content/details/AdNumber/100309484/sale/

 

[BingoBangoBongo]

For the record, let me just say everyone doesn’t have this same opinion of Diane and Judi.
On TUG, we tell newbies about frequently mentioned broker websites including Diane & Judi’s site, so they can avoid resale scams. I’ve bought from both including two last year from Judi’s website.

I find it insulting to indicate that those who use Diane and Judi’s sites are suckers or less knowledgeable.
They have prices in all ranges. Prices will vary from time to time depending how motivated the sellers are. Some sellers are firm on their selling price.

And as I said before, if you don’t like their prices shop around.

Here’s what I wrote on a different thread and posting here.
I won’t expect a resale agent to get you the absolute lowest prices. Their prices will be higher due to their commission and in return they offer a level of security from the resale scammers. Keep in mind, these sellers spent tens of thousands for their week if they originally bought from the developer.

With the recommended agents, I just look for a reasonable price, not bargain basement prices unless we’re going through a time of uncertainty like last year with Covid-19. Sellers who use a resale agent generally expect to get more for their week. So if you’re looking for the absolute lowest prices then you’ll have to hunt for it yourself via the various websites (eBay, Redweek, etc).

Tips for those who don’t have any experience with Judi and Diane
With Judi’s website, since I’m not in a rush, I simply wait until a price appears close to the price that I’m willing to pay then make my offer.
With Diane, I was looking for a specific resort at HHV. Diane seems to prefer to talk to a person rather than communicate via email. But you have to follow up with Diane. When she didn’t get back to me after we spoke, I sent her a follow up email a few days later summarizing our conversation and my current ownership. Perhaps that‘s how she weeds out those who aren’t serious. She responded immediately to my email and found what I was looking for within the week.
Anyone that has experience with trying to rent a timeshare knows that there are lots of folks that will waste your time asking questions with no intentions of really buying anything.

NOTE: There are several brokers that work with HGVC.

Here’s what Seth from sellingtimeshares.net wrote back in 2008 about HGVC resales and commission paid to HGVC.

​

Here’s what Judi wrote back in 2016 & 2017 regarding resale prices. She does’t deny that they try to keep resale values up. Honestly this is good for all owners (because most buyers will eventually become sellers sooner or later ). As owners, we never want to join the thousands of others on eBay and other sites trying to unload worthless timeshares.

​

​

I hesitate to take the ROFR thread too far off its intended path but do agree with everything you said about Judi. I haven’t had any dealings with Diane, but have looked at her website looking for listings. Both of them could use some improvement there, but it’s their business not mine.

I have purchased three deeds thru Judi on deals I found on the MLS site on my own after doing a fair amount of research. The first two are very low MF/pt deeds and I was willing to pay a premium over places like EBay, but not what they were listed at. Both of those offers were fair based on the market and there was no counter from the seller. I thought the third deed was very fairly priced and I offered the list price.There was a very small hiccup on one deal and Judi resolved it quickly per the original agreement.

I look at a lot of listings on eBay and its like the Wild West. There is a listing there now that has multiple bids that has MFs that are about 25% too low and has a strange line that 2023 points might not be guaranteed. There was a listing on eBay a couple weeks ago that had a resort listed and pictures of that resort, but the problem is that resort has no rooms/seasons at the point amount listed. You might pick up on these if you know the system, but you could find yourself in a mess with an uncertain party with a listing like that.

For the first couple deeds I really think having a broker involved justified what “premium“ I paid, which ended up being about 90% off developer price. I would have been comfortable doing the third one non-broker but I found such a good deal through Judi I couldn’t resist. I was actually looking at a completely different property when I found that one.

Bottom line is I think you can find good deals from multiple sources, but it helps if you have a good understanding of TS math, both short term and long term and have a strong understanding of the system and how you’ll use it.

 

[Nowaker]

There is a listing there now that has multiple bids that has MFs that are about 25% too low

I think it's because they're actually including the club fee in the MF, and skipping extra info like 1 BR Grand.

All in all though, I was always able to match the listing to HGVC points diagram and maintenance fee reports on TUG. Also note: estoppels always include the voluntary ADA contribution but it's a $5 difference (or something similar).

has a strange line that 2023 points might not be guaranteed

You're talking about https://www.ebay.com/itm/313785398801. That one was because a 2023 booking was made by the seller. The offer has an up-to-date estoppel included so you could see exactly what happened there. Worth noting, this Ebay seller resortsalesgroup, or David Thomas IRL, has very precise listings on Ebay, and answers all questions quickly and precisely. Sometimes he's not able to answer a question when he does not know the answer - and he says that clearly too. I wouldn't hesitate to do business with this seller, given my limited experience with him. Pre-sales experience definitely better than with Judi/Diane.

I'm 100% up to date with everything with all decent MF-per-point offers that show on eBay - that's how I know. Haha.

 

[BingoBangoBongo]

I think it's because they're actually including the club fee in the MF, and skipping extra info like 1 BR Grand.

All in all though, I was always able to match the listing to HGVC points diagram and maintenance fee reports on TUG. Also note: estoppels always include the voluntary ADA contribution but it's a $5 difference (or something similar).



You're talking about https://www.ebay.com/itm/313785398801. That one was because a 2023 booking was made by the seller. The offer has an up-to-date estoppel included so you could see exactly what happened there. Worth noting, this Ebay seller resortsalesgroup, or David Thomas IRL, has very precise listings on Ebay, and answers all questions quickly and precisely. Sometimes he's not able to answer a question when he does not know the answer - and he says that clearly too. I wouldn't hesitate to do business with this seller, given my limited experience with him. Pre-sales experience definitely better than with Judi/Diane.

I'm 100% up to date with everything with all decent MF-per-point offers that show on eBay - that's how I know. Haha.
[/QUOTE

Bolding above is mine.

The MF listed is 25% too low and isn’t related to the Club Fee but how that particular type of two week deed is billed. Take a look at the 2021 MFs.

How does one make a 2023 booking?

The estoppel might be up to date, but in my opinion that and the details in the ad aren’t correct.[/QUOTE

 

[BingoBangoBongo]

Reposting response:

Bolding above is mine.

The MF listed is 25% too low and isn’t related to the Club Fee but how that particular type of two week deed is billed. Take a look at the 2021 MFs.

How does one make a 2023 booking?

The estoppel might be up to date, but in my opinion the details in the ad aren’t correct.

How about this closed listing? https://www.ebay.com/itm/154692447951

 

[Smclaugh99]

I think it's because they're actually including the club fee in the MF, and skipping extra info like 1 BR Grand.

All in all though, I was always able to match the listing to HGVC points diagram and maintenance fee reports on TUG. Also note: estoppels always include the voluntary ADA contribution but it's a $5 difference (or something similar).



You're talking about https://www.ebay.com/itm/313785398801. That one was because a 2023 booking was made by the seller. The offer has an up-to-date estoppel included so you could see exactly what happened there. Worth noting, this Ebay seller resortsalesgroup, or David Thomas IRL, has very precise listings on Ebay, and answers all questions quickly and precisely. Sometimes he's not able to answer a question when he does not know the answer - and he says that clearly too. I wouldn't hesitate to do business with this seller, given my limited experience with him. Pre-sales experience definitely better than with Judi/Diane.

I'm 100% up to date with everything with all decent MF-per-point offers that show on eBay - that's how I know. Haha.

I have been stalking EBay HGVC listings since 2018 and got 6 very good deals. I also got burned for 2 deeds that took 8 months and never came through. I was able to get full refund, however. The company was based in Sevierville, TN and I learned to avoid any listing originating in TN or Missouri. Buyer be ware.

Sean

 

[alwysonvac]

All I'm saying: why them, if sellingtimeshares.net (Seth Nock / Samuel Rodriguez) offer the same for considerably less. If the price from Diane / Judi is 2-3x the price from sellingtimeshares.net (real life example: a month ago, Flamingo 7k for $4250 from ST.net, and the others had this for $8K with no 2022 points, or $9K with 2022 points), this is in the "sucker in" territory for me. We may have different opinions where that territory is.

Real Life examples: Judi website had the following listings last year and early this year (see below).

• Lagoon Tower 6200 EOY was listed for $1750. I offered and bought this one for $1500 since most of my stays are at HHV.
• Kingsland 8400 Annual (fixed week 51) for $3000. Lol, I was very tempted but decided to stick with Oahu. I noticed the seller dropped the price to $1000 after I made an inquiry but didn’t proceed.
• Grand Waikikian 12,600 EOYE asking $7000. I offered $3500 but I was too late sellers deeded it back to Hilton. I made low ball offers on two other Grand Waikikian listings but they were rejected (not surprised).
• West 57th by Hilton Club 3750 EOY was offered for $1. Almost bought since we live close by for a short getaway but got turn off by the high closing cost (Title insurance is mandatory in NY). $3k for the transfer of ownership was high compared to my Hawaii transfers. I figured the overall closing cost for NY would only rise which would make this one more difficult to get rid of years later.

All I’m saying is that I won’t make absurd accusations that timeshareprofessionals.com listings are basically unreasonably priced because I found lower listings on another website.
My point is that prices will vary from time to time on various sites depending how motivated the sellers are.

 

[alwysonvac]

Since these posts were moved from the ROFR sticky into a separate thread

To those of you looking to buy, see @CalGalTraveler warning below…

PSA: If you respond to a Redweek, MyResortNetwork, Tug or Ebay listing with a realtor. Make sure the realtor has the actual listing in hand and ask for the MLS # and have them email you the listing. There is a realtor that is frequently recommended on Tug who (after experiencing myself and conversing with several other Tuggers who have had similar experiences) we later realized uses these sources to list popular properties in order to obtain a buyer.

Once buyer responds and places an offer they will negotiate a final price directly and then go find a seller saying, "We have a buyer for you." However this realtor doesn't disclose to the buyer that they don't actually have a listing/seller and will negotiate price independently with the buyer without consulting a seller - we now believe this realtor did not actually have a bona fide listing. We offered a lower price and realtor rejected it outright without consulting the seller. To me this is highly unethical and not acting in the best interests of the buyer.

We worked with another highly ethical realtor who told us up-front that he did not have a listing right now (he did not have an ad on these sources) but would search on our behalf - that is the way it should be.

Here are a few red flags to look for:

1) Realtor cannot provide an MLS listing as proof right after you respond to the listing
2) Realtor negotiates price with you directly without taking time to take your offer to the seller
3) Realtor does not disclose that they do not actually have this listing that you responded to and would need to search for one.
4) Realtor takes more than a day or two to provide a sales contract (i.e. s/he is looking for a seller). In hindsight I realized if you were the seller would you hire an agent who doesn't close the deal right away? (this is the biggest red flag)
5) Realtor has many advertisings on Redweek, Tug, and MyResortNetwork for popular properties and advertisements that don't get removed after a property is sold.

There are many ethical realtors however buyer beware...

 

[Eric B]

Reposting response:

Bolding above is mine.

The MF listed is 25% too low and isn’t related to the Club Fee but how that particular type of two week deed is billed. Take a look at the 2021 MFs.

How does one make a 2023 booking?

The estoppel might be up to date, but in my opinion the details in the ad aren’t correct.

How about this closed listing? https://www.ebay.com/itm/154692447951

That closed listing for The District was actually a West 57th Street gold studio. I had asked the seller about it and got pictures of the online account screen showing that. Despite my telling him that, he left the listing that way several times as it didn’t sell. Not sure what his issue was.

 

[letsgobobby]

The sucker territory is here: https://www.sellmytimesharenow.com.

May I present to you a 7k boulevard deed for $90k..... https://www.sellmytimesharenow.com/timeshares/index/content/details/AdNumber/100309484/sale/

Maybe they added an extra zero?

 

[OJRG]

Since these posts were moved from the ROFR sticky into a separate thread

To those of you looking to buy, see @CalGalTraveler warning below…

I had a Realtor do this to me just this Fall. After several weeks I asked why I hadn’t seen my escrow deposit taken out and then they said they mixed up and are looking for a unit for us. This was after I executed a purchase and sale agreement and had “negotiated” a price. When I directed him to cancel our contract he was very understanding and gave no issues, but it was very bizarre. His ad was on Redweek.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[OJRG]

Reposting response:

Bolding above is mine.

The MF listed is 25% too low and isn’t related to the Club Fee but how that particular type of two week deed is billed. Take a look at the 2021 MFs.

How does one make a 2023 booking?

The estoppel might be up to date, but in my opinion the details in the ad aren’t correct.

How about this closed listing? https://www.ebay.com/itm/154692447951

That unit is at Valdoro which sells units differently then most other places because it’s a ski resort. The listing is for a 1 bedroom platinum event week (4800 points) plus 4800 floating points for a platinum one bedroom during the summer. So 9600 points total. Since half the ownership is an event week (I think ski week 5 or 6 if I remember off hand) it’s automatically reserved for owner and has to be cancelled. If you cancelled you would get the 4800 points back. Which is why 2022 has 9600 (they cancelled their event week) and 2023 shows 4800 + the event week is pre scheduled. What is weird on that listing is the estoppel shows a big decrease in MF for 2022 over the previous year.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[BingoBangoBongo]

That unit is at Valdoro which sells units differently then most other places because it’s a ski resort. The listing is for a 1 bedroom platinum event week (4800 points) plus 4800 floating points for a platinum one bedroom during the summer. So 9600 points total. Since half the ownership is an event week (I think ski week 5 or 6 if I remember off hand) it’s automatically reserved for owner and has to be cancelled. If you cancelled you would get the 4800 points back. Which is why 2022 has 9600 (they cancelled their event week) and 2023 shows 4800 + the event week is pre scheduled. What is weird on that listing is the estoppel shows a big decrease in MF for 2022 over the previous year.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I own one of these deeds, but mine is for a 1BR Plus which has 6200 points for each week. There is no “big decrease” in MF’s, part (roughly $1500 gets billed now) and the remaining $700 gets billed in the May/June timeframe. So the estoppel does show what’s due now, but not what’s due in 5-6 months. This is my first year with it so I’m not certain on the timing.

The weird thing is that the listing states “(Full point value not guaranteed for 2023)”. That really makes no sense because you would start 2023 with the Fixed week automatically reserved and use it or simply cancel it and get the points. You can’t even make a 2023 reservation yet??? The other week will just show up as points. In my opinion, the seller listing the MF’s on this as “approx $1800” is erroneous and illustrates why you cant blindly bid on some of these eBay listings.

 

[Nowaker]

That really makes no sense

It makes a lot of sense if you're an agent that offers timeshare exit services, all risk is on you, and you don't want to be held liable for anything that's promised, not present on the estoppel, and then not delivered for whatever reason.

 

[PigsDad]

I own one of these deeds, but mine is for a 1BR Plus which has 6200 points for each week. There is no “big decrease” in MF’s, part (roughly $1500 gets billed now) and the remaining $700 gets billed in the May/June timeframe. So the estoppel does show what’s due now, but not what’s due in 5-6 months. This is my first year with it so I’m not certain on the timing.

I own a 1BR Plus dual week deed at Valdoro just like yours, and yes, you have the timing correct. Approx 2/3 of the MF is due Jan 1, and the remaining is billed in May.

The weird thing is that the listing states “(Full point value not guaranteed for 2023)”. That really makes no sense because you would start 2023 with the Fixed week automatically reserved and use it or simply cancel it and get the points. You can’t even make a 2023 reservation yet???

Is it possible that the owner has already made a 2022 HGVC reservation that borrowed some of their 2023 points? That would be a situation where all of their 2023 points would not be available for the purchaser of that deed.

Kurt

 

[MickeyBlue]

I will say that Diane was great on a prior resale purchase but then I tried to buy another one, gave her my offer and she was going to present it to the sellers then I never heard from her again.

Sounds like Judy too.

 

[Magus]

I've had nothing but terrific experience with Diane and have scored some terrific deals ($10k for KL 14.4k points, $4k for 7k paradise). I think once she forgot to respond but a follow up text and had no problem. I've closed 4 with her, including one I ended up gifting to a friend later.

 

[dayooper]

The weird thing is that the listing states “(Full point value not guaranteed for 2023)”. That really makes no sense because you would start 2023 with the Fixed week automatically reserved and use it or simply cancel it and get the points. You can’t even make a 2023 reservation yet??? The other week will just show up as points. In my opinion, the seller listing the MF’s on this as “approx $1800” is erroneous and illustrates why you cant blindly bid on some of these eBay listings.

You can book RCI reservations 2 years in advance (2024 right now). That's why your dashboard lists your points 2 years out.