DISboards gave me a "Time-Out" suspension

[turkel]

I followed your link and I couldn't find your post but I did find the rental board. Your entitled to ask any amount you want in rent. I noticed many inquiries at the $10 a point you stated. They seem to go like hot cakes. I was quite frankly shocked at the price. I would never pay that kind of money to go to disney but obviously many others are happy to pay that price.
I do think some people here have been rather harsh. There is nothing wrong with a little pot stirring. Spice does add flavor.:whoopie:
I have not found you to be negative, and you have not sought out to attack others personally. I say the ban is harsh and I have read a lot worse from some on Tug Pam

 

[Steamboat Bill]

I say the ban is harsh and I have read a lot worse from some on Tug Pam

Thanks Pam....I have not left for California yet...in a few hours.

The original thread that started this controversy was DELETED and the link I posted will no longer work. How's that for letting the market decide....?

Sorry you missed the post....I may soon sell my DVC as I just put in an offer on a Marriott MSE 2 Bdr Platinum today that was acccepted. Now it needs to pass ROFR. :ignore:

 

[Keitht]

As you had commented earlier in this thread about how easy it would be for you to create a new e-mail address and user id on DISboards, you shouldn't be surprised that the moderators over there have taken this action.
For a 'new' member to sign up to the board and their first action to be raising awareness of your problem was bound to raise suspicions. Whether the poster was actually your brother or not is of little relevance as they were presumably perceived to be acting as your mouthpiece when you had been suspended.
If anybody seems incapable of accepting the rules of the board they must suffer the consequences.
So there can be no false assumptions about any vested interest in this I should make it clear that I do not own at and Disney Resorts, nor have any desire so to do. I am a moderator on a couple of boards so hopefully have some understanding and experience of those who work within the rules and those who want to run things according to their own rules.
(Edited to de-personalise the original post as it may otherwise be interpreted as a personal attack which was not the intent)

 

[SOS8260456]

I am not sure, but I think that alot of these forums may have the ability to ban an entire computer IP address. This would make it a pain for those who are banned to just turn around and log in using a different user name.

Lisa

 

[jerseygirl]

Not that I think you should violate the ruling (why post where you're not wanted), but I thought they tracked by IP address. Wouldn't you need a new internet provider, not just a new name?

Edit: Oops ... hadn't seen Lisa's post when I posted this. Sorry for the duplication!

 

[Arkansas Winger]

I am not sure, but I think that alot of these forums may have the ability to ban an entire computer IP address. This would make it a pain for those who are banned to just turn around and log in using a different user name.

Lisa

They may have just banned his user ID or if they may choose to ban his IP address. As I understand it, the problem with banning an IP address is that you can take others out also if other members use the same IP.

Dale

 

[Makai Guy]

Not that I think you should violate the ruling (why post where you're not wanted), but I thought they tracked by IP address. Wouldn't you need a new internet provider, not just a new name?

Edit: Oops ... hadn't seen Lisa's post when I posted this. Sorry for the duplication!

You will, I'm sure, understand if we don't explain in detail how these things work, thus giving malcontents more information about how to get around them.

 

[jerseygirl]

Absolutely!

 

[DrQ]

They may have just banned his user ID or if they may choose to ban his IP address. As I understand it, the problem with banning an IP address is that you can take others out also if other members use the same IP.

Dale

Yeah, the easy way around this is to sign up through AOL. They proxy all traffic through a small number of IP addresses, so the board admins cannot block those IP addresses. There are also methods to tunnel your traffic through another IP address. IP blocking is like a padlock; it keeps honest people honest, but it will not deter a determined theif.

 

[DrQ]

OK, I am now 100% banned from DISboards as Steamboat Bill as my posting privileges have been permanently revoked.

My bother Mike (Pegleg Pete) posted a message on a thread I started that had over 7,000 views informing the readers that Steamboat Bill was suspended for 30 days and would not be able to continue the discussion on raising point rental rates.

I know this may be hard to believe, but yesterdays post was really posted by my brother Mike, not me. In fact, all my recent threads have been deleted. However, my most popular non-controversial threads are still going….

This is why you do not give your login information to anyone, not even your brother.

Sombody on TUG probably pointed the DISboard admin to this thread and ratted you out. Tattlers abound on the internet, kinda like the jerks that drive in the far left lane at the speed limit because they think that nobody should speed.

 

[camachinist]

I'm hearing from Bill that his brother (perhaps another DVC owner) posted under his own ID (Pegleg Pete), and likely from his own computer, on a thread that Bill had originated. If so, I would be interested to know the disposition of Bill's brother in the matter, since Bill was permanently suspended.

Bill's likely guilty of no more than being straightforward and direct, something that a subset of online communities seem to have trouble with. Since the related OP's are now gone, I don't have any way of verifying such. Just a hunch...

Pat

 

[BocaBum99]

Hey Bill,

I didn't read your posts on the disboards, but I think you did take a lot of flack on this thread. I admire that you took it well and responded with respect.

I think you should keep posting topics with unconventional thoughts. I like that it makes us think about the topic with perhaps a different point of view. If we can't post our thoughts on such topics, then it would get really boring.

Keep posting. I'll read them and respond.

 

[turkel]

Hope your Marriott passes ROFR. I am sure your resale price will help make your Marriott experience positive. Many Marriott MSE owners say they get great trades especially those that get July 4th week. Happy closing. If you need any help with the marriott system refer to the Marriott board or I would be happy to help if I am able Pam
PS sorry about the permanent ban, some people can defineately take things too seriously
I saw a post not too long ago from a disney owner saying they would be willing to trade a disney stay with a marriott owner, but only a 2-4 day stay at disney for a week at Marriott because their disney was much more valuable. I laughed out loud. Maybe in a couple months when you close you can laugh as well.

 

[gmarine]

Hope your Marriott passes ROFR. I am sure your resale price will help make your Marriott experience positive. Many Marriott MSE owners say they get great trades especially those that get July 4th week. Happy closing. If you need any help with the marriott system refer to the Marriott board or I would be happy to help if I am able Pam
PS sorry about the permanent ban, some people can defineately take things too seriously
I saw a post not too long ago from a disney owner saying they would be willing to trade a disney stay with a marriott owner, but only a 2-4 day stay at disney for a week at Marriott because their disney was much more valuable. I laughed out loud. Maybe in a couple months when you close you can laugh as well.

Trading 4 days in a DVC resort for a week at MMC isnt that far fetched. Think about it. Lets say you want to go to Boardwalk Villas. Its almost an impossible trade during most times of year. Disney is going to charge somewhere around $600 per night, more than double the rate for MMC during the summer.
For your MMC $640 maintenance fee you get 4 days at BWV. Actually not a bad deal.

 

[Steamboat Bill]

I am in Los Angeles for a few days and then off to San Fran for a business trip. I was hoping to be “Internet free” but I could not resist.

FYI: Long Beach airport is much more convenient than LAX or Burbank. Highly recommend JetBlue and Long Beach Airport for anyone visiting the LA area.

FYI: I am renting the new Shelby GT-350 H from Hertz (only 500 in the world) and it is a total blast. I am tearing up the freeways of LA and hopefully won‘t get a ticket. Read about it here: http://www.cnn.com/2006/AUTOS/04/11/new_yorks_hertz_shelby/index.html

To Keitht:
You stated (and I quote), “Whether the poster was actually your brother or not is of little relevance as they were presumably perceived to be acting as your mouthpiece when you had been suspended. If anybody seems incapable of accepting the rules of the board they must suffer the consequences.”….dude, you have to lighten up….this is America, not England, (well it is technically cyberspace). Did you ever hear the phrase “innocent until PROVEN guilty?”

To many posters:
I already have a NEW user name on DISboard, but will lay low for awhile. Anyone can lurk without registering, but you need to register to post. The sad thing is that I made several virtual friends over the past 4 years that are wondering why Steamboat Bill disappeared.

To camachinist:
I fully agree with your statement that “Bill's likely guilty of no more than being straightforward and direct, something that a subset of online communities seem to have trouble with.”

FYI: my brother Michael (aka Pegleg Pete) has also been 100% banned from DISboard for simply posting a message announcing that Steamboat Bill was banned for trying to influence DVC members to raise the rent for point rentals and linking a $14 per point ad.

To BocaBum99:
You are the only person from any bbs that I have ever met in real life. Although I am not a USC fan, I think you are a cool dude and have learned a lot about TS from you and your posts. Thanks for your support and I hope to play golf with you when you get back to Boca Raton.

To Turkel:
I am sure I will have many posts about my Marriott experience (and Westgate Park City) as I begin to use this system. I too hope it passes ROFR and I will post the details of the price and transaction AFTER it is approved. A small hint is that it cost me less than 50% the cost of a similar DVC purchase.

To everyone interested:
DVC owners are a strange group in that they seem to look at the world thru “pixie colored glasses”…that is not meant as an insult because I am a card carrying, flag waiving, Disney lover myself. However, I have taken a step back to revaluate why am I paying $20,000 for a DVC TS that TUG users can replicate (off site of course) with a $4,000 TS purchase? I am also tired of paying Disney $60 per person per day admission, $10 per day for a refillable soda mug, $8 for a pin I can buy on eBay for $2, and many more examples.

I believe I was booted off DISboards because I challenged the magic, questioned authority, suggested people raise rental rates, and stirred up the pot. Something I forgot to post on TUG was that I have personally talked several DIS newbies into cancelling thir reservation to buy a DVC contract. This was only for people that I thought was getting ripped off, specifically, a young couple in their early 20’s that put 10% down and financed the rest at 10.75% interest. I posted a detailed message that they were paying $18 per DVC point per year (MF + finance), when they could rent for only $10 per point per year. The couple cancelled their DVC deposit and many DIS users tried to justify this OUTRAGEOUS expense. They then began to treat me like the anti-christ.

Anyway, I enjoy this “virtual world battle” as it is kind of interesting to see the dynamics of how people act and react in a society where people don’t know if I am a 400 pound 4 foot tall hobbit or a 6 foot blond female bombshell. I am neither….but the sociology professors are probably having a field day with the social networking of the Internet.

 

[Keitht]

Bill,

I did say was perceived to be acting as your mouthpiece. All I was doing was expressing a view as to why the ban was imposed. When various statements made about a second id and a questionable first post by a new member are put together I think it was bound to raise suspicions. As you were already persona non grata with the mods of the board I don't think what happened next will come as much of surprise to many.
Rightly or wrongly internet boards don't require the same level of proof as a court of law. The judge and jury are the boards mods and they will always have the final say.

 

[rickandcindy23]

It is amazing that no one has challenged this freedom of expression on these types of boards. What happend to freedom of speech and the press? Why is the internet exempt from those freedoms? As long as you are nice and do not threaten or insult people, which is not protected by those freedoms, then I think it is wrong to stop people from expressing their opinions.

It really is about being nice.

 

[T_R_Oglodyte]

It is amazing that no one has challenged this freedom of expression on these types of boards. What happend to freedom of speech and the press? Why is the internet exempt from those freedoms? As long as you are nice and do not threaten or insult people, which is not protected by those freedoms, then I think it is wrong to stop people from expressing their opinions.

It really is about being nice.

Your post, and my response, is tangential, but here goes.

Freedom of speech and freedom of the press does not mean that an invididual is allowed to say whatever they want, whenver they want, and wherever they want.

What it does mean is that no person is prevented from creating and distributing their own publication in which they express their thoughts however they want.

The internet is the best thing for free speech. Each site can set it's own rules. But anyone can set up their own site and say what they want.

*****

Consider the analogy to print media. Freedom of the press does not mean that a person who owns a printing press must print anything and everything that someone wants to have printed. Similarly, the person who operates a newstand is not obligated to take what you've printed and put it on a rack. Freedom of the press means that if you can get it printed, you can distribute it (or make distribution arrangments) and make it available to the public. The public is then free to read it or ignore it, as they wish.

But note the limitation - you are still responsible for getting it down on paper and distributing it for people to read in the first place. The public bears no obligation to help you get past those first steps.

***

Web sites such as this site are the 21st century equivalent of a printing press. They are a means to distibute written thoughts for others to read. If I own a printing press, it's not censorship if you ask me to print something for free, and I decline to print it for you. Censorship is a situation where you are prohibited from owning a printing press or if someone who owns a printing press is prohibited from printing your material or writings.

With the internet, every person with access to a computer and the internet now owns a printing press and can get their content distributed. Search engines will even seek out what you've written, catalog it, and point people to it. You can create your own website or your own blog and distribute your ideas to the world -for free!! That is as far from censorship as things can be.

But just as the owner of a printing press is under no obligation to print everything that anyone wants him to print, neither is the operator of any web site compelled to allow anyone to post whatever they want. That's not censorship; to the contrary that is part of the freedom of speech granted to every person.

"Freedom of speech" also means that operators of this or any site are free to specify and decide what the content of their "publication" will be; it is not censorship if they decide that certain communications are not cosistent with the nature of what they want their site to express. In fact, compelling someone who owns a printing press (or a web site) to distribute content against their will is just as much a form of censorship as is preventing them from owning or operating the printing press (or web site) in the first place.

There is no person at this site who is being prohibited from writing and distributing their thoughts for the entire world to see. If that person is limited in their ability to write and post their thoughts for the entire world to see, that is a limitation of their own making and their own choice.

 

[Cat]

You said a mouthful, Cindy. It really IS all about being nice.

We often hear the hue and cry about freedom of speech. However, TUG, as one example, is privately owned, and therefore the term "freedom of speech" instantly becomes relative. It is freedom as it is interpreted by the owner, which is often decided by the admins/mods of a website, depending on the responsibilities and authorities that the owner has conferred.

This is true on many websites. The rules are posted, and it is up to those in charge to interpret and enforce them. Rarely, if ever, does an offending poster think that he has run afoul of them.

What one person perceives as not threatening or harrassing may be perceived completely differently by those in charge, particularly when they factor in past behaviors and actions.

Happily, here on TUG, there are few occasions when someone can't seem to figure out the rules, or feels constrained to flout them. It's amazing that those who do so often cry foul and feel constrained to try to dig up sympathy for their cause on other boards. The term "freedom of speech" is almost without fail brought into the justification.

 

[Cat]

Steve, you said it far more eloquently than I ever could have. The printing press analogy is right on. It's when someone seeks to use someone else's printing press for the dissemination of their own purposes and doesn't like being told that it's not what the owner wants on his own website that that the seeker resorts to that haven for justifiers everywhere, "freedom of speech."

In other words, don't get your panties in a bunch when someone won't let you use his printing press for your purposes. Get your own printing press or find someone who will let you use his. Just do it.

And for heaven's sake, don't whine about it.

 

["Roger"]

I had read Cindy's post and was thinking about making a comment comparing freedom of speech on the internet to freedom of the press. It seemed like it might be a great deal of work, so I backed off. Lo and behold, Steve makes the same comparison (but more carefully and at greater length than I would).

So, if my mother were to ask what I learned today, the answer would be that there are great benefits to laziness. I ought to practice it more often.

Nice job, Steve. And, Cindy, I do agree with you that ultimately the secret is to be nice. Kudos to you, too.

 

[T_R_Oglodyte]

So, if my mother were to ask what I learned today, the answer would be that there are great benefits to laziness. I ought to practice it more often.

You should also take that there are great benefits to "search" and to "cut-and-paste". I've written all of that before; search made it easy to find and cut-an-paste made it easy to repost.

 

[eschjw]

Yes the Shelby GT-350 H from Hertz is a blast to drive. My son is a Hertz manager in Chattanooga and he drove one from Nashville to Chattanooga for a special event there last month. He enjoyed it so much that he rented it the next day to visit friends in Georgia. I bet you are turning a few heads even in LA. You obviously have good taste.

Last year I sent him and his new wife to Disney's OKW in January with a 5 night studio rental (Sun-Thurs) that I purchased on ebay for $495. By my calculations it was a little over $12 a point and this seems to be the going rate on ebay for OKW.

Your time out however does seem to be excessive for your crime and I feel your pain.

Joe

 

[rickandcindy23]

So they have a very limited number of these cars and Hertz owns a good percentage of them! That is too funny! I knew Hertz was way too expensive for me, if they can afford to buy limited edition vehicles.

So Hertz is getting the cars in and sending them out right away, as soon as they are back on the lot, without checking oil, tires and brakes. Poor guy who buys that car from the Hertz used car sales lot.

My sister worked for Hertz for years, was a general manager, and there is very little budgeted for oil changes and the like. So when we get a rental car, Rick checks the oil and tire pressure. We have stopped at an auto parts store more than once to add oil. Air in tires is good for gas mileage, so it benefits us to stop and check. He usually adds air.

Cat, I agree with you completely.

 

[Steamboat Bill]

Yes the Shelby GT-350 H from Hertz is a blast to drive. My son is a Hertz manager in Chattanooga and he drove one from Nashville to Chattanooga for a special event there last month. He enjoyed it so much that he rented it the next day to visit friends in Georgia. I bet you are turning a few heads even in LA. You obviously have good taste.

The Shelby GT-350 H is a blast but I would never want to own one. Yes, it is amazing that in Los Angeles I got dozens of looks and had several people talk to me at the gas station, mall, house, and just about everywhere I went. I cracked up because this is a car that is probably worth $40k.

The best thing is the sound of the engine/exhaust as it rumbles. I raced a friend who has a Merceded 350 CLK and it was pretty even. We hit about 120mph on the 101 from Woodland Hills to Thousand Oaks. (please don't flame me for speeding) and the two cars were almost identical in performance except the MB is a more refined car and is quite. This car would get smoked by a Corvette Z-06 or Porsche or MB SL 550 or SL 65.

This car has lots of flash with a little increase in performance. It actualls feel like a fast car, even traveling 45 mph. The WORST thing about this car is that is is very rough to drive on the 101/405/5 as I feel EVERY bump in the road. Next time I will stick with renting a Jag or lincoln town car.