Diamond Resorts/Villas de Santa Fe Maintenance Fee Increases

[thomas660]

I just received a proposed budget for 2009 for the Villas de Santa Fe Condiminium Association. Included is a proposed 30% increase in maintenance fees for 2009. The explanation is: "The primary factor impacting this year's maintenance fee is the cost of administrative and management support services. In previous years, your Association was not charged expenses related to providing services such as reservations, billing and payment processing and legal review, IT, and purchasing, to name a few of the services essential to support the resort and the owners." Are these expenses charged to the owners at other timeshare resorts? Have we been getting a good deal all these years, or is Diamond just trying to make more money off the existing owners? The one bedroom delux annual fee is going from $514.96 (2008) to $685.14 (2009). I think that is more like 33%.

 

[riverdees05]

WOW, wonder what will happen at Lake Tahoe Vacation Resort, own two 2 bedroom float units.

 

[bccash63]

I've been watching an ebay auction for this resort--so far its going very cheap--maybe someone had a heads up Dawn

 

[timeos2]

I just received a proposed budget for 2009 for the Villas de Santa Fe Condiminium Association. Included is a proposed 30% increase in maintenance fees for 2009. The explanation is: "The primary factor impacting this year's maintenance fee is the cost of administrative and management support services. In previous years, your Association was not charged expenses related to providing services such as reservations, billing and payment processing and legal review, IT, and purchasing, to name a few of the services essential to support the resort and the owners." Are these expenses charged to the owners at other timeshare resorts? Have we been getting a good deal all these years, or is Diamond just trying to make more money off the existing owners? The one bedroom delux annual fee is going from $514.96 (2008) to $685.14 (2009). I think that is more like 33%.

Yes, those fees are charged and should have been paid. Who was doing the work for free? What are they doing with reserves? This sounds like a clear problem brewing. Who manages the resort?

 

[thomas660]

John,

Your first question was my first question. The budget shows administrative support services and management fees going from about $374,000 (2008) to $909,000 (2009). If the owners weren't paying for these services in previous years, I assumed that they were paid out of another budget from other revenues. If so, why are they suddenly the responsibility of the owners?

The memo attached to the budget says that the reserves are being used only for capital projects.

The management of the resort is done by Diamond Resorts. Beyond that I don't know anyting about management.

The whole thing doesn't look right to me.

Tom Wilson

 

[Cathyb]

A few yrs ago we exchanged there; our air conditioner had only one speed working and our freezer was having trouble. The Front Office shrugged when we reported these and said budget was low and those types of major repairs had to wait.

 

[Tia]

Diamond Resorts is a new name to me, but the story is the same as one of ours. Up up up go the fees went with lots of talk but no action. Seems to be a popular business taking over a ts resort(s) and mail out large bills.

 

[jbercu]

Villas de Santa Fe, Diamond vs. VI Club

Have we been getting a good deal all these years, or is Diamond just trying to make more money off the existing owners? The one bedroom deluxe annual fee is going from $514.96 (2008) to $685.14 (2009). I think that is more like 33%.

I own VI club points which owns a bunch of one bedroom deluxe and two 2 bedroom units.
The 2009 annual dues for 105 points which is equivalent to 7 nights one bedroom deluxe is $731.85. The 2 bedroom is $902.62.
The low season requires 77 points for one bedroom deluxe or $536.69 and $658.66 for the two bedrooms. The other seasons are in between the costs.
The increase from 2008 to 2009 is 5.75%.
Have we been getting a bad deal all these years?
The idea of owning in a club is that large fluctuations are absorbed across resorts and members. You may not be getting this benefit at Diamond.

 

[borntotravel]

Diamond as the Club "points" members as well as people (like this posts originator) who own a certain week at a certain resort. Points members are charged maintenance fees based on the number of points you have. You don't have a deeded week and don't own any actual property, just the benefit to use any of the club's resorts.

If you own a certain week at a certain resort, those owners should be responsible for paying for upkeep, maintenance, and operating expenses of that resort - NOT THE ENTIRE CLUB. Otherwise, what is the point of actually owning at one resort? It would be like owning a week at one Sheraton in Myrtle Beach and someone else owning at Sheraton in Florida. The Myrtle Beach owners should not be responsible for paying for the Florida resort and vice versa.

I know that when Diamond took over Sunterra, they wanted to bring their resorts up to par, which costs money if they have been neglected. It sounds like this resort needs it.

 

[CharlesS]

If you own a certain week at a certain resort, those owners should be responsible for paying for upkeep, maintenance, and operating expenses of that resort - NOT THE ENTIRE CLUB. Otherwise, what is the point of actually owning at one resort? It would be like owning a week at one Sheraton in Myrtle Beach and someone else owning at Sheraton in Florida. The Myrtle Beach owners should not be responsible for paying for the Florida resort and vice versa.

I agree, providing the Myrtle Beach owner can only reserve at Myrtle Beach. If the Myrtle Beach owner can also reserve in Florida, then both the Myrtle Beach owner and the Florida owner should share costs.

Charles

 

[pgnewarkboy]

There is a difference between Club members and trust members. Members who own points in the trust do not own any specific property. The maintenance fees for all trust properties are split between all the points owners.

On the other hand, Club members own deeded weeks for which they get a certain number of points. Club members pay the maintenance fees for the resorts that they own deeded weeks.

 

[Engineeringdude]

Getting back to the original concern, Maintenance fees going up at the Villas de Santa Fe.
I have done some research on the Internet, and from it I concluded:

1. In most cases the developer usually keeps controlling interests in the Home Owners Association (which determines what the maintenance fee's will be). There is very little that we the owners can do to keep the maintenance fees from spiraling out of control.

2. When we signed that contract, we basically signed a blank check to Sunterra Corporation (Now Diamond Resorts). We are at their mercy as to how much we have to pay them every year in maintenance fees. They can raise our maintenance fee's to $3000 a year, and we are under legal obligation to pay them. The contract is legally binding and airtight. It will be upheld in just about every court of law.

If only the owners of timeshares could get together and figure out a way to void these contracts either by finding some legal loophole or getting some law passed through congress that will void these contracts. They can be voided on the grounds of some sort of a fairness clause in the law, or citing some form of conflict of interest in the management of timeshare properties, or gross misrepresentation. Nothing is impossible, but it definitely won't be easy.


Probably the easiest thing for us owners to do is to sell our timeshares even at a loss, just to keep ourselves from paying exuberant maintenance fees for the rest of our lives. We made a big mistake, now we have to just deal with it.

 

[timeos2]

Well run resorts have owners in charge not developers

Getting back to the original concern, Maintenance fees going up at the Villas de Santa Fe.
I have done some research on the Internet, and from it I concluded:

1. In most cases the developer usually keeps controlling interests in the Home Owners Association (which determines what the maintenance fee's will be). There is very little that we the owners can do to keep the maintenance fees from spiraling out of control.

2. When we signed that contract, we basically signed a blank check to Sunterra Corporation (Now Diamond Resorts). We are at their mercy as to how much we have to pay them every year in maintenance fees. They can raise our maintenance fee's to $3000 a year, and we are under legal obligation to pay them. The contract is legally binding and airtight. It will be upheld in just about every court of law.

If only the owners of timeshares could get together and figure out a way to void these contracts either by finding some legal loophole or getting some law passed through congress that will void these contracts. They can be voided on the grounds of some sort of a fairness clause in the law, or citing some form of conflict of interest in the management of timeshare properties, or gross misrepresentation. Nothing is impossible, but it definitely won't be easy.


Probably the easiest thing for us owners to do is to sell our timeshares even at a loss, just to keep ourselves from paying exuberant maintenance fees for the rest of our lives. We made a big mistake, now we have to just deal with it.

Most states require a turnover to owner control after so many years or at XX% completion of the project. Once that occurs a well run BOD will do a search / request for management fees to make sure the cost is reasonable. Plus they will set a fair fee structure - including adequate reserves, often shortchanged by developers to hold fees down and help sales. If that hasn't happened at a resort then big problems could be looming (as in uncontrolled fee increases and/or outrageous management fees of 20% or more!)

Selling really is the only answer if the developer hangs in and the owners can't get control over their own resort. Happens far too often even in places that have laws against it (Wastegate in FL has thumbed their noses at mere laws / timeshare regs with, so far, no one willing to stand up to them).

 

[pgnewarkboy]

Getting back to the original concern, Maintenance fees going up at the Villas de Santa Fe.
I have done some research on the Internet, and from it I concluded:

1. In most cases the developer usually keeps controlling interests in the Home Owners Association (which determines what the maintenance fee's will be). There is very little that we the owners can do to keep the maintenance fees from spiraling out of control.

2. When we signed that contract, we basically signed a blank check to Sunterra Corporation (Now Diamond Resorts). We are at their mercy as to how much we have to pay them every year in maintenance fees. They can raise our maintenance fee's to $3000 a year, and we are under legal obligation to pay them. The contract is legally binding and airtight. It will be upheld in just about every court of law.

If only the owners of timeshares could get together and figure out a way to void these contracts either by finding some legal loophole or getting some law passed through congress that will void these contracts. They can be voided on the grounds of some sort of a fairness clause in the law, or citing some form of conflict of interest in the management of timeshare properties, or gross misrepresentation. Nothing is impossible, but it definitely won't be easy.


Probably the easiest thing for us owners to do is to sell our timeshares even at a loss, just to keep ourselves from paying exuberant maintenance fees for the rest of our lives. We made a big mistake, now we have to just deal with it.

Don't panic. Enjoy your timeshare! It is extremely unlikely that fees will be raised exhorbitantly.

 

[Sunterra]

I own VI club points which owns a bunch of one bedroom deluxe and two 2 bedroom units.
The 2009 annual dues for 105 points which is equivalent to 7 nights one bedroom deluxe is $731.85. The 2 bedroom is $902.62.
The low season requires 77 points for one bedroom deluxe or $536.69 and $658.66 for the two bedrooms. The other seasons are in between the costs.
The increase from 2008 to 2009 is 5.75%.
Have we been getting a bad deal all these years?
The idea of owning in a club is that large fluctuations are absorbed across resorts and members. You may not be getting this benefit at Diamond.

VI has traditionally been quite expensive in the way of MFs. A bunch equals 10-1BRs and 2-2BRs which is quite a small part of the total VI inventory that you are being averaged over. Expect to see these increases reflected in your next annual fee, VI pays MF to DRI for these 12 units.

 

[teepee2000]

I just received a proposed budget for 2009 for the Villas de Santa Fe Condiminium Association. Included is a proposed 30% increase in maintenance fees for 2009. The explanation is: "The primary factor impacting this year's maintenance fee is the cost of administrative and management support services. In previous years, your Association was not charged expenses related to providing services such as reservations, billing and payment processing and legal review, IT, and purchasing, to name a few of the services essential to support the resort and the owners." Are these expenses charged to the owners at other timeshare resorts? Have we been getting a good deal all these years, or is Diamond just trying to make more money off the existing owners? The one bedroom delux annual fee is going from $514.96 (2008) to $685.14 (2009). I think that is more like 33%.

Diamond Resort is I believe is in finanicial ruins, they are tring to pull a magic rabbit from there hat , they have no customer service that is willing to listen to there members,they charge special assessments , hidden late fee , list go's on . This year I will forfeit my points , They made me pay a 50.00 late charge for a 70.00 special extra fee.that crossed in the mail, so I hope this is worth it to them ,Normally we spend around $1000.00 when we are there , this does not include what my guest spend either, so for the 50.00 short term gain they got, in the long run Diamond resorts will loose $1000.00 of US dollars. Now thats what I call great business sense. I wiil not bank,rent ,trade or use the resort points this year until the management recognize that it customers or members are not happy.They are very crafty and we need to keep our eyes opened to these sheisters,and they only know how to run a business in to the ground , also they cooked the books before and will most likley do it again . Please e-mail me if you want to know the lowdown on Diamond , If I can talk to you I don't think you will buy, Renting is much cheaper and the resorts will go out of there way to please you unlike Diamond. There is no value in buying Diamond property it very overrated and you are just lining the managements pockets.
If anything changes I will update. Right now my reccommention is DIAMOND RESORTS DO NOT BUY , THEY DON'T CARE ABOUT THERE MEMBERS ALL THEY WANT IS THERE $$$$$$$$$$$ BUCKS , IT'S TOO BAD , they have to suck there members dry , I think diamond resort points are selling for pennies on the dollar, I wonder how the Europeans are taking this.













4

 

[pgnewarkboy]

Diamond Resort is I believe is in finanicial ruins, they are tring to pull a magic rabbit from there hat , they have no customer service that is willing to listen to there members,they charge special assessments , hidden late fee , list go's on . This year I will forfeit my points , They made me pay a 50.00 late charge for a 70.00 special extra fee.that crossed in the mail, so I hope this is worth it to them ,Normally we spend around $1000.00 when we are there , this does not include what my guest spend either, so for the 50.00 short term gain they got, in the long run Diamond resorts will loose $1000.00 of US dollars. Now thats what I call great business sense. I wiil not bank,rent ,trade or use the resort points this year until the management recognize that it customers or members are not happy.They are very crafty and we need to keep our eyes opened to these sheisters,and they only know how to run a business in to the ground , also they cooked the books before and will most likley do it again . Please e-mail me if you want to know the lowdown on Diamond , If I can talk to you I don't think you will buy, Renting is much cheaper and the resorts will go out of there way to please you unlike Diamond. There is no value in buying Diamond property it very overrated and you are just lining the managements pockets.
If anything changes I will update. Right now my reccommention is DIAMOND RESORTS DO NOT BUY , THEY DON'T CARE ABOUT THERE MEMBERS ALL THEY WANT IS THERE $$$$$$$$$$$ BUCKS , IT'S TOO BAD , they have to suck there members dry , I think diamond resort points are selling for pennies on the dollar, I wonder how the Europeans are taking this.














4

I am a very happy and satisfied Diamond owner. There is nothing in the press or otherwise to say they are in financial ruins. You are entitled to your opinion but that is all it is. I would recommend Diamond Club membership.

 

[dougp26364]

Diamond Resort is I believe is in finanicial ruins, they are tring to pull a magic rabbit from there hat , they have no customer service that is willing to listen to there members,they charge special assessments , hidden late fee , list go's on . This year I will forfeit my points , They made me pay a 50.00 late charge for a 70.00 special extra fee.that crossed in the mail, so I hope this is worth it to them ,Normally we spend around $1000.00 when we are there , this does not include what my guest spend either, so for the 50.00 short term gain they got, in the long run Diamond resorts will loose $1000.00 of US dollars. Now thats what I call great business sense. I wiil not bank,rent ,trade or use the resort points this year until the management recognize that it customers or members are not happy.They are very crafty and we need to keep our eyes opened to these sheisters,and they only know how to run a business in to the ground , also they cooked the books before and will most likley do it again . Please e-mail me if you want to know the lowdown on Diamond , If I can talk to you I don't think you will buy, Renting is much cheaper and the resorts will go out of there way to please you unlike Diamond. There is no value in buying Diamond property it very overrated and you are just lining the managements pockets.
If anything changes I will update. Right now my reccommention is DIAMOND RESORTS DO NOT BUY , THEY DON'T CARE ABOUT THERE MEMBERS ALL THEY WANT IS THERE $$$$$$$$$$$ BUCKS , IT'S TOO BAD , they have to suck there members dry , I think diamond resort points are selling for pennies on the dollar, I wonder how the Europeans are taking this.













4

You are confusing DRI with the old Sunterra. Diamond purchased Sunterra and then took it private. DRI is not a publicly traded company. They are presently looking at expanding by purchasing Bluegreen resorts.

Sunterra has set MF's at their resorts far to low to maintain them. DRI has been increasing MF's but, they have also been making necessary repairs and needed upgrades to the old Sunterra resorts to keep them competitive with the rest of the indurstry. Unfortunately many of the old Sunterra owners had grown happy with low MF's and questionable quality resorts. Many were more than happy to use these for exchange into better maintained resorts. The roosted has come home to roost and now MF's are climbing to reflect the true cost of maintaining those resorts and catching up on old issues that Sunterra ignored for years. I know of no timeshare management company that would obsorb the cost of maintenance and repairs out of their pocket. It's up to the owners to pay MF's that reflect the necessary maintenance of their resorts and pay the bills. Management simply runs the resort and collects those fee's from owners.

I'm not sure where you think your getting your information from about DRI's financial position but it's pure speculation and wishfull thinking. Nothing could be further from the truth at this point in time. Sunterra did a very poor job of managing it's properties. That's why they wound up being bought out by DRI.

 

[jbercu]

The roosted has come home to roost and now MF's are climbing to reflect the true cost of maintaining those resorts and catching up on old issues that Sunterra ignored for years. QUOTE]

This string started with "The primary factor impacting this year's maintenance fee is the cost of administrative and management support services. In previous years, your Association was not charged expenses related to providing services such as reservations, billing and payment processing and legal review, IT, and purchasing, to name a few of the services essential to support the resort and the owners."

The original owners that own a specific week and/or a specific unit cannot use the extensive system that DRI has for scheduling check-in/check-out any day depending on points used. Cleaning costs and wear and tear costs are much higher when the units are not booked one week at a time. However, DRI is asking all the owners to share in the costs. It is more like the fox got into the hen house rather than The chickens have come home to roost.

 

[Engineeringdude]

Whats wrong with low maintenance fees?

You are confusing DRI with the old Sunterra. Diamond purchased Sunterra and then took it private. DRI is not a publicly traded company. They are presently looking at expanding by purchasing Bluegreen resorts.

Sunterra has set MF's at their resorts far to low to maintain them. DRI has been increasing MF's but, they have also been making necessary repairs and needed upgrades to the old Sunterra resorts to keep them competitive with the rest of the indurstry. Unfortunately many of the old Sunterra owners had grown happy with low MF's and questionable quality resorts. Many were more than happy to use these for exchange into better maintained resorts. The roosted has come home to roost and now MF's are climbing to reflect the true cost of maintaining those resorts and catching up on old issues that Sunterra ignored for years. I know of no timeshare management company that would obsorb the cost of maintenance and repairs out of their pocket. It's up to the owners to pay MF's that reflect the necessary maintenance of their resorts and pay the bills. Management simply runs the resort and collects those fee's from owners.

I'm not sure where you think your getting your information from about DRI's financial position but it's pure speculation and wishfull thinking. Nothing could be further from the truth at this point in time. Sunterra did a very poor job of managing it's properties. That's why they wound up being bought out by DRI.

Bottom Line: Anyone can rent a 1 - bedroom unit at a high end resort anywhere from ( $350 - $800/wk, depending on the time of year.)
without owning a timeshare, without exchanging a week, without debiting any points. - Nothing beats the exchange power of cash.


When "maintenance fees" for a 1 bedroom go up to $685.14 / week, or a 2-bedroom for $902.62 / week. It is no longer a maintenance fee.
It becomes rent! Why should we pay rent for something we already own!

Maintenance fees should be used to maintain the property. Any other activities such as renting to outsiders, reservations, and other services should be
self supporting. Time share owners shouldn't have to pay for these services. DRI should not have to profit at all from our maintenance fees.

If the property is being neglected, I am more likely to believe :
1. The property is either being mismanaged.
2. DRI or Sunterra is/was pocketing the money intended for maintaining the property.

I do not believe "MF's are climbing to reflect the true cost of maintaining those resorts " We as owners are being made to pay for a lot of things we should not be paying.
The numbers just don't add up!

 

[dougp26364]

Bottom Line: Anyone can rent a 1 - bedroom unit at a high end resort anywhere from ( $350 - $800/wk, depending on the time of year.)
without owning a timeshare, without exchanging a week, without debiting any points. - Nothing beats the exchange power of cash.

Not at all resorts, and not all the time. I will agree that there are resorts where you can easily rent for the same amount or less than the maintenance fee's for those resorts and you can get in just about anytime. Shoulder season is especially easy but high season for high demand resorts isn't that easy. True you can find some resorts but not all resort are available.

When "maintenance fees" for a 1 bedroom go up to $685.14 / week, or a 2-bedroom for $902.62 / week. It is no longer a maintenance fee.
It becomes rent! Why should we pay rent for something we already own!

Do you continue to maintain your house? I know that I this year I've paid to have my house repainted, purchased new computers and upgraded my network, had our hot tub removed vs fixing it and conintuing to pay to heat it. Let's not forget I keep paying for trash removal, utilities and cable. There's also the fee's to maintain my yard. I had to buy a new lawn mower this year and, if I don't mow my lawn myself I have to pay someone to do it. I'm also setting money aside to replace my roof, privacy fence and I need to put some money into landscaping. the area where the hot tub was will have the deck expanded to cover that area.

Gee, and I OWN this house. Yes, even when you own something you MUST maintain it and that costs M.O.N.E.Y. Why should I continue to have to put money into something I own? Because it won't maintain itself. You have the same issue with timeshare plus you have to pay employee's to run it. If you have a problem with how much it's costing to run your timeshare then take an active role in the HOA/BOD proceedings.

Maintenance fees should be used to maintain the property. Any other activities such as renting to outsiders, reservations, and other services should be
self supporting. Time share owners shouldn't have to pay for these services. DRI should not have to profit at all from our maintenance fees.

DRI is a management company paid to manage your timeshare. If you dont' like them, then work with the HOA/BOD of your timeshare to have them removed. DRI works for the owners and can be fired by the owners if enough owners agree with you.

As far as renting, all I can tell you is that at the resorts I own that IS self supporting. There is a column in my MF accounting statement that reflects rental income and reduces the yearly cost of my MF's for those resorts.

If the property is being neglected, I am more likely to believe :
1. The property is either being mismanaged.
2. DRI or Sunterra is/was pocketing the money intended for maintaining the property.

I do not believe "MF's are climbing to reflect the true cost of maintaining those resorts " We as owners are being made to pay for a lot of things we should not be paying.
The numbers just don't add up!

Each resort I own at sends me an accounting of where the money is going and how it's being spent. I've owned with DRI for 10 years. While I'm not always happy with them, it has never appeared to me that DRI has pocketed any money.

What specifically are you refering to when you say your being made to pay for a lot of things you shouldn't be paying for? Bedding? Repairs? Employee's paychecks? Utilities? Insurance? pool maintenance? Exactly what is it that you find objectionable?

 

[Engineeringdude]

Reply to dougp26364's Reply, my response's in bold

Quote:
Originally Posted by Engineeringdude
Bottom Line: Anyone can rent a 1 - bedroom unit at a high end resort anywhere from ( $350 - $800/wk, depending on the time of year.)
without owning a timeshare, without exchanging a week, without debiting any points. - Nothing beats the exchange power of cash.

dougp26364:
Not at all resorts, and not all the time. I will agree that there are resorts where you can easily rent for the same amount or less than the maintenance fee's for those resorts and you can get in just about anytime. Shoulder season is especially easy but high season for high demand resorts isn't that easy. True you can find some resorts but not all resort are available.

Gee, Did I say that "all resorts are available all the time"? Let me check................No, I did not!!!!



Quote:
When "maintenance fees" for a 1 bedroom go up to $685.14 / week, or a 2-bedroom for $902.62 / week. It is no longer a maintenance fee.
It becomes rent! Why should we pay rent for something we already own!

dougp26364:
Do you continue to maintain your house? I know that I this year I've paid to have my house repainted, purchased new computers and upgraded my network, had our hot tub removed vs fixing it and conintuing to pay to heat it. Let's not forget I keep paying for trash removal, utilities and cable. There's also the fee's to maintain my yard. I had to buy a new lawn mower this year and, if I don't mow my lawn myself I have to pay someone to do it. I'm also setting money aside to replace my roof, privacy fence and I need to put some money into landscaping. the area where the hot tub was will have the deck expanded to cover that area.

Gee, and I OWN this house. Yes, even when you own something you MUST maintain it and that costs M.O.N.E.Y. Why should I continue to have to put money into something I own? Because it won't maintain itself. You have the same issue with timeshare plus you have to pay employee's to run it. If you have a problem with how much it's costing to run your timeshare then take an active role in the HOA/BOD proceedings.

One can spend lots of money maintaining and renovating a house, specially if you buy a "fixer-upper" and decide to make it your pet project. But in this case, its a very poor analogy to use to make your point. Owing a coop is a better comparison. You purchase a 1 bedroom apartment, but the building and property is owned collectively and pay an association fee once a month to pay for the cost of maintaning the grounds, cutting the grass, pruining the flowers, clean the pool etc.

Let's see $685.14 /week X51 Weeks = each 1 bedroom unit yields $34,942.14 in maintenance fees annually. Divide by 12 that and that comes up to $2911.85/a mouth to maintain a 1 bedroom apartment. Sure timeshares offer services and benefits that you won't find in neither renting an apartment or owning a 1 bedroom coop. But no number of amenities makes it worth that much!
Maintenance fee's at all the co-ops that I know about don't come anywhere near $2911.85 a month.
Quote:
Maintenance fees should be used to maintain the property. Any other activities such as renting to outsiders, reservations, and other services should be
self supporting. Time share owners shouldn't have to pay for these services. DRI should not have to profit at all from our maintenance fees.

dougp26364:
DRI is a management company paid to manage your timeshare. If you dont' like them, then work with the HOA/BOD of your timeshare to have them removed. DRI works for the owners and can be fired by the owners if enough owners agree with you.

As far as renting, all I can tell you is that at the resorts I own that IS self supporting. There is a column in my MF accounting statement that reflects rental income and reduces the yearly cost of my MF's for those resorts.

What good will that do if DRI owns controlling interests in the HOA/BOD.

Quote:
If the property is being neglected, I am more likely to believe :
1. The property is either being mismanaged.
2. DRI or Sunterra is/was pocketing the money intended for maintaining the property.

I do not believe "MF's are climbing to reflect the true cost of maintaining those resorts " We as owners are being made to pay for a lot of things we should not be paying.
The numbers just don't add up!

dougp26364:
Each resort I own at sends me an accounting of where the money is going and how it's being spent. I've owned with DRI for 10 years. While I'm not always happy with them, it has never appeared to me that DRI has pocketed any money.

What specifically are you refering to when you say your being made to pay for a lot of things you shouldn't be paying for? Bedding? Repairs? Employee's paychecks? Utilities? Insurance? pool maintenance? Exactly what is it that you find objectionable?

I can rent a fully furnished 1 bedroom apartment in the LA area, with a pool, weight room, sauna, hottub, clubhouse, and pay a little extra to have housekeeping come by 3 times a day. total cost : $1668 /mo
not exactly apples to apples, but the point I am making here is that we as owners can pay less in maintenance fees and still not worry about the property falling apart. Apartments complexes and hotels do it all the time.

 

[winger]

...

I can rent a fully furnished 1 bedroom apartment in the LA area, with a pool, weight room, sauna, hottub, clubhouse, and pay a little extra to have housekeeping come by 3 times a day. total cost : $1668 /mo
not exactly apples to apples, but the point I am making here is that we as owners can pay less in maintenance fees and still not worry about the property falling apart. Apartments complexes and hotels do it all the time.

too late to do the math, so I assume your $2900 is accurate for a TS's MF/month.

So the difference in your LA apartment is $2900-$1700(round up) = $1200/mo.

To see if the difference is justified, I would ask we consider what IS the difference between your hotel and say my Polo Towers (PT).

PT is located smack on the Las Vegas Strip on a prime location - this makes the property pretty valuable, this cost should be reflected somehow in the MF.

Housekeeping is available 24 hrs/day, 7 days/week. What is this worth?

Engineering is available 24 hrs/day, 7 days/week. What is this worth?

All utilities are paid for at PT. What is this worth?

Is there any other things we can consider when comparing cost to run PT vs your LA apartment?

 

[thomas660]

It seems I started quite a discussion. Good! With all of the different opinions and points being offered, we seem to be getting closer to the question.

What should MFs pay for and what is a reasonable amount?

It might be interesting to note that the proposed budget that caused me to ask the original question indicated an increase in Administrative and Support Services and Management Fees from $373,948 to $909,262 in one year. Accounting for almost all on the increase in the total budget. It seems that the resulting increase in MFs will mainly go directly to DRI.

Also, I emailed the president of the board of directors and he responded that he was the only property owner on the BOD and was against the proposed increases. He doubted, however, that he would be able to influence the decision of the BOD because DRI appointed all of the other members.

 

[Engineeringdude]

too late to do the math, so I assume your $2900 is accurate for a TS's MF/month.

So the difference in your LA apartment is $2900-$1700(round up) = $1200/mo.

To see if the difference is justified, I would ask we consider what IS the difference between your hotel and say my Polo Towers (PT).

PT is located smack on the Las Vegas Strip on a prime location - this makes the property pretty valuable, this cost should be reflected somehow in the MF.

Housekeeping is available 24 hrs/day, 7 days/week. What is this worth?

Engineering is available 24 hrs/day, 7 days/week. What is this worth?

All utilities are paid for at PT. What is this worth?

Is there any other things we can consider when comparing cost to run PT vs your LA apartment?

Santa Fe is a very touristic town that appeals alot to the artisan community. During the winter it is a very popular for skiing. Its pretty expensive to live there but still not as expensive as LA.
The Last Vegas Strip on the other hand is prime real estate. Everything on the Las Vegas strip is expensive. You go outside the strip and you can live in Las Vegas for half of what it costs to live in LA. But if you want to have the party right at your doorstep, it will cost you. But I'm sure staying at the Polo Towers must me nice.

I befriended a lady who works at a housekeeper. She told me that she gets paid $3.00 per room per day. She works freelance, and she told me it is alot better than being employed by the hotel which pays her only $7/hour and overworks her. Hospitality workers are heavily exploited, it is not something that looks like will be changing anytime soon. Its not a cost savings that hotels traditionally pass down to their customers.

Engineering is different, most buildings to not have a engineer on premise, it's just not cost effective. A property management company would either contract out the services, or have a few in-house engineers responsible for multiple locations. It breaks the cost down tremendously. I know this because I am an engineer.

My apartment has a maintenance person that lives on premise and is on call 24/7 he does everything from making minor repairs, to cleaning spills, some landscaping. If something major goes wrong, then he calls the experts. My apartment complex is owned by a big corporation that owns many rental properties in Southern California. Its stock is doing well, so I know they are making a profit.

All utilities are paid by my apartment except electric. I run an AC about half the time, I pay about $50/month during the summer, $25/ month during the winter.

As far as property taxes go, counties have different methods they incorporate for of tax assesment on property values. I know that the State of Nevada gets a tremendous amount of revenues from gambling, so the state is seldom strapped for cash. This usually means that counties are less pressured to increase property taxes, sales taxes, etc. on its residents. Oh, I just remembered! Las Vegas has a high hotel tax! I am not sure how much it is or if it is in any way incorporated into the timeshare maintenance fees.


I hope I answered all of your questions. Feel free to ask again if I did not.
I am still researching this more. I may just have to write a letter to my HOA and see if I can get a detailed breakdown of my resorts maintenance costs. You may ask the same of your resort.

Till later,
Eddie
aka "Engineeringdude"