Diamond resorts owner..not happy

[Duh]

Do you have access to a current complete list of the various Collections? I've read back through the FAQ pages, and there was a certain amount of shuffling around of resorts within Collections over the years. I understand the California Collection was merged into the Hawaii Collection a few years ago, but posts by DRI owners mention resorts I'm not seeing in the Collection lists I'm also researching. The US Collections list seems to be a bit of a moving target, too - is it 24, 35, 48 or more resorts in that group? The different lists I'm seeing seem to have a varying list of resorts.

And of course, the big question from me is whether Hilton is going to remove any rebranded DRI locations from any Collections, or whether they're going to stay as they had been. I'm trying to decide if DRI is good fit for me, but I'm having trouble getting to the bottom line of what is and isn't available. I might be willing to take over a DRI ownership, but I am still seeking answers. Is it too soon since the Hilton buyout?

Dave

Not specifically for the Hawaii Collection as I own in the US Collection. US has approximately 55 resorts and is the best collection to own in as a resale (dirty point) owner but you can't go to Hawaii with dirty points in the US Collection (though you can go to St Martin).

Technically, the resorts are part of the trust and therefore can't be removed but as we all know, enough money going to enough lawyers can probably make anything happen. Rebranded resorts (about 6 have been done so far and the rest will be completed by 30 June 2026 except for about 15 which will not be rebranded to HVC and will be branded under Mosaic) are still available to Diamond Legacy owners (those who haven't upgraded to Max) and should stay available.

 

[on the back 9]

Not specifically for the Hawaii Collection as I own in the US Collection. US has approximately 55 resorts and is the best collection to own in as a resale (dirty point) owner but you can't go to Hawaii with dirty points in the US Collection (though you can go to St Martin).

Technically, the resorts are part of the trust and therefore can't be removed but as we all know, enough money going to enough lawyers can probably make anything happen. Rebranded resorts (about 6 have been done so far and the rest will be completed by 30 June 2026 except for about 15 which will not be rebranded to HVC and will be branded under Mosaic) are still available to Diamond Legacy owners (those who haven't upgraded to Max) and should stay available.

Just sat thru ANOTHER update hoping for some more ..clarity ..The Hilton people are NASTY ...BUY OR ELSE...They claim Hilton owners have to reup $$$$ to HGVC MAX to use Diamond properties...The idea A David (92 ) and GOLIATH ( 62 ) takeover tells me they see value in Diamond locations and with DEX X..
Probably could get to most desired locations..I did bring up A CLASS ACTION against Hilton...if you assume property the people come with it...Im like a cornfield "All EARS"

 

[on the back 9]

Just sat thru ANOTHER update hoping for some more ..clarity ..The Hilton people are NASTY ...BUY OR ELSE...They claim Hilton owners have to reup $$$$ to HGVC MAX to use Diamond properties...The idea A David (92 ) and GOLIATH ( 62 ) takeover tells me they see value in Diamond locations and with DEX X..
Probably could get to most desired locations..I did bring up A CLASS ACTION against Hilton...if you assume property the people come with it...Im like a cornfield "All EARS"

FYI...The Hilton guy said...US COLLECTION..Has more value then the other's...whatever that means...I don't think Hilton realized that Diamond owners weren't going to just roll over...40K worth of timeshare should allow me to travel the way I want

 

[magmue]

SMTN's list of Hawaii Collection properties looks correct to me:
Sedona Summit Resort
Lake Tahoe Vacation Resort
San Luis Bay Inn
Tahoe Beach & Ski Club
Palm Canyon Resort and Spa
Ka'anapali Beach Club
The Point at Poipu
Cancun Resort Las Vegas
Polo Towers Villas
Cedar Breaks Lodge

But I should add that I have no personal experience with any of the DRI Collections. We bought a deeded resale P@P week earlier this year. I think we'll be happy using that week every year for quite some time. But IIRC, there is currently an internal DRI XC set up specifically for deeded week owners to exchange with each other. @NiteMaire owns Sedona and has been able to trade for Hawaii stays. Will HGV eliminate that type of XC to pressure deeded owners to "upgrade"? It's possible. But I can still use my week where I bought every year. And there's always II trades.

 

[dayooper]

Just sat thru ANOTHER update hoping for some more ..clarity ..The Hilton people are NASTY ...BUY OR ELSE...They claim Hilton owners have to reup $$$$ to HGVC MAX to use Diamond properties...The idea A David (92 ) and GOLIATH ( 62 ) takeover tells me they see value in Diamond locations and with DEX X..
Probably could get to most desired locations..I did bring up A CLASS ACTION against Hilton...if you assume property the people come with it...Im like a cornfield "All EARS"

That's the last place you should go for clarity. Salesman have 1 job and that's to sell more. They stretch the truth until it snaps to make that sale.

As far as what we HGVC owners need to do to get into Max, we have to purchase a new deed. The minimum cost is reported is all over the place and many HGVC owners have not bought into the new membership. The value just isn't there for me right now.

 

[geist1223]

They have added the Modern Honolulu to DRI Hawaiian Collection.

 

[youppi]

Hawaii Collection owns deeded weeks at these resorts:
Ka'anapali Beach Club, Maui, HI
The Point at Poipu, Kauai, HI
The Modern Honolulu, Oahu, HI (since 2021)
Sedona Summit (Sunset Suite section only), Sedona, AZ
Polo Tower Villas, Las Vegas, NV
Cancun Resort, Las Vegas, NV
Palm Canyon Resort, Palm Desert, CA
Cedar Breaks Lodge, Brian Head, UT

Hawaii Collection also owns some California Collection points. This is how Hawaii Collection gets 13 months booking at 12 resorts in place of 8. 12 resorts and not 13 because both collections own the same Sedona Summit Sunset Suite section.

California Collection owns deeded weeks at these resorts:
Sedona Summit (Sunset Suite section only), Sedona, AZ
San Luis Bay Inn, Avila Beach, CA
Lake Tahoe Vacation Resort, South Lake Tahoe, CA
Tahoe Beach and Ski Club, South Lake Tahoe, CA
Polo Tower Suite, Las Vegas, NV

From 2020 financial report of Hawaii Collection

 

[tootoobusy]

Do you have access to a current complete list of the various Collections? I've read back through the FAQ pages, and there was a certain amount of shuffling around of resorts within Collections over the years. I understand the California Collection was merged into the Hawaii Collection a few years ago, but posts by DRI owners mention resorts I'm not seeing in the Collection lists I'm also researching. The US Collections list seems to be a bit of a moving target, too - is it 24, 35, 48 or more resorts in that group? The different lists I'm seeing seem to have a varying list of resorts.

And of course, the big question from me is whether Hilton is going to remove any rebranded DRI locations from any Collections, or whether they're going to stay as they had been. I'm trying to decide if DRI is good fit for me, but I'm having trouble getting to the bottom line of what is and isn't available. I might be willing to take over a DRI ownership, but I am still seeking answers. Is it too soon since the Hilton buyout?

Dave

I do not know anything about all this. I was assuming only the name would change and the number of resorts would increase. I currently own in Williamsburg, Virginia. Does anyone know what is happening to the resorts in Virginia?

 

[LEMONLEE]

I would recommend buying a deeded week at KBC or Point at Poipu versus buying into the Hawaii collection, as it's very clear what you get (a week at that resort) and that can't be taken away. We bought a resale week at KBC about 20 years ago when it was still branded as an Embassy Suites and have resisted all efforts from Diamond's salespeople through the years to pay more to upgrade to points or to swap for a Collection. Diamond does have a system called DEX for deeded week owners to exchange their week, but we have always used Interval in the past and have managed to get some nice exchanges through the years - our most recent exchange was for Westin Princeville this past January. My husband has been pushing me to sell our KBC week as he prefers Marriott, so we might end up doing that if I can rouse myself to make the effort. I know Hilton said KBC was being rebranded next week, so I am just curious about what that will entail, and wondering if I should wait to find out.

 

[Fensterlips]

We just sat through a sales presentation from an HGV sales weasel and he said that if you stay in Diamond with your legacy points you’ll have access to the remaining 74 formerly Diamond properties and nothing else. In the Hawaii Collection where we are you get KaanapalI Beach Club and P@P And the 13 month booking window for those properties. You also keep the higher annual fees that come with the Hawaii Collection. The bigger problem is that those two properties are now accessible to all the HGV members too so you have a very narrow benefit. All the other 74 Club properties will also have HGV members fighting for weeks so it could end up being difficult to get what you want. They explained, also, that a lot of Diamond affiliated properties that weren’t owned directly have been dropped. This includes a lot of European destinations we have used a lot - and loved.
A lot of the HGV properties are hotels rather than resorts so there are fewer suites and condos and more hotels though a percentage do have condo like amenities including a kitchenette and a common space.
They offered a typical “discount deal” if you want to buy up a tier. He made it pretty much mandatory if you really want to use future benefits and access to HGV Max properties and not just the legacy offering.
We are generally unhappy. We were one of the happy Diamond owners that used their points and enjoyed the benefits.
If you think your interests are being represented and you won’t get screwed now or in the future, consider yourself disabused of that notion.

 

[singlemalt_18]

We just sat through a sales presentation from an HGV sales weasel and he said that if you stay in Diamond with your legacy points you’ll have access to the remaining 74 formerly Diamond properties and nothing else. In the Hawaii Collection where we are you get KaanapalI Beach Club and P@P And the 13 month booking window for those properties. You also keep the higher annual fees that come with the Hawaii Collection. The bigger problem is that those two properties are now accessible to all the HGV members too so you have a very narrow benefit. All the other 74 Club properties will also have HGV members fighting for weeks so it could end up being difficult to get what you want. They explained, also, that a lot of Diamond affiliated properties that weren’t owned directly have been dropped. This includes a lot of European destinations we have used a lot - and loved…

I believe the “weasel” was telling you the truth. In the new Max world, residual Diamond owners (there is no such thing as “legacy”) only have access to the Diamond Trust properties, and residual Hilton owners only have access to the original Hilton properties. Going forward, only Max has access to both.

In addition, as Hilton acquires new properties they will only be available in Max. Hilton is planning to acquire more properties, and they will be focused primarily on building, and aggressively renovating the U.S. portfolio over the next 2 years. There will be little emphasis on international for the time being, because those properties have traditionally not been profitable from a sales perspective, as Europe is a different beast.

Despite all the negativity here and on the Hilton threads, I believe those willing to “buy in” to the new Max world will be quite pleased with what the future has in store. Hilton knows it’s not cheap, and they don’t intend it to be, but I believe they are committed to providing the value.

 

[SmithOp]

We just sat through a sales presentation from an HGV sales weasel and he said that if you stay in Diamond with your legacy points you’ll have access to the remaining 74 formerly Diamond properties and nothing else. In the Hawaii Collection where we are you get KaanapalI Beach Club and P@P And the 13 month booking window for those properties. You also keep the higher annual fees that come with the Hawaii Collection. The bigger problem is that those two properties are now accessible to all the HGV members too so you have a very narrow benefit. All the other 74 Club properties will also have HGV members fighting for weeks so it could end up being difficult to get what you want. They explained, also, that a lot of Diamond affiliated properties that weren’t owned directly have been dropped. This includes a lot of European destinations we have used a lot - and loved.
A lot of the HGV properties are hotels rather than resorts so there are fewer suites and condos and more hotels though a percentage do have condo like amenities including a kitchenette and a common space.
They offered a typical “discount deal” if you want to buy up a tier. He made it pretty much mandatory if you really want to use future benefits and access to HGV Max properties and not just the legacy offering.
We are generally unhappy. We were one of the happy Diamond owners that used their points and enjoyed the benefits.
If you think your interests are being represented and you won’t get screwed now or in the future, consider yourself disabused of that notion.

Its not a 'narrow benefit's if you can book at 13 months and Max owners have to wait until 6 months. I doubt you will be fighting with HGV owners to book in the collection you own.
Don't believe the sales BS!

 

[T_R_Oglodyte]

Oddly, it shows that Point at Poipu is a HGV property and Kaanapali Beach Club is a Diamond managed property.

Art - that's because The Point has been officially added to HGV, but KBC has not yet been. Likely they want to make some upgrades at KBC before they attach the Hilton name to the property.

 

[T_R_Oglodyte]

So what happens to the resorts keeping the Diamond name? Who will own them?

Keep in mind the difference between "ownership" and "management". When Hilton bought Diamond, what they bought was the management operations and any unsold inventory that Diamond had title to.

In almost all cases, ownership of the property lies with people who bought deeds for the properties, or with a trust that holds the deeds and that has fiduciary duty to the members of the trust. So, with all resorts ownership will continue as is. Hilton taking over Diamond does not change a single deed. The Diamond USA trust will own whatever it now owns, though the name of the trust may change. People who own deeds outside of a trust will continue to own what they own and will have all of the reservation rights for that deed.

 

[T_R_Oglodyte]

hey did discontinue the club combo thing..which made it easier to use....was being told today that Diamond is still charging me for that service not being used

Some added info, as it applies to us.

We have another TS that we added to Club Combo, and that Hilton has outplaced from the program. Adding that unit to Club Combo was part and parcel for us reaching Gold Level membership in the Diamond Club. Even though Hilton has outplaced our unit, they are not taking away our associated elite level membership. So we are continuing to pay for the Gold Level membership, because we still qualify, even though our annual points allocation is now less than Gold level.

We ca live with that change. In reviewing our contract paperwork, I didn't see anything that committed Diamond to continue to accept our Club Combo property in the program. Our contract was explicit, however, that joining Club Combo gave us Gold level membership. If they had tried to remove our Gold membership, that would have been a material breach of contract, because Gold Level membership was a specific inducement for us in our purchase of added Diamond points at the time of the sale.

 

[T_R_Oglodyte]

In almost all cases, ownership of the property lies with people who bought deeds for the properties, or with a trust that holds the deeds and that has fiduciary duty to the members of the trust. So, with all resorts ownership will continue as is. Hilton taking over Diamond does not change a single deed. The Diamond USA trust will own whatever it now owns, though the name of the trust may change. People who own deeds outside of a trust will continue to own what they own and will have all of the reservation rights for that deed.

That also brings up another point Just because Hilton has acquired Diamond and has created HGVMax, that does not mean that members of HGVMax have unfettered access to any Diamond property. HGVMax member reservations are limited to the total number of units (or points) that are attached to HGVMax. So, for example, if HGVMax has 100 weeks at Point at Poipu (or the points equivalent in the Hawaii trust), reservations made by HGVMax members cannot exceed those 100 weeks.

That is a point that is conveniently ignored on the sales floor, where they lead people to think that there is unlimited availability at any of the resorts. Yes, you can reserve at any resort, but the total number of reservations at any resort is limited by the inventory attached to HGVMax.

 

[Dollie]

Keep in mind the difference between "ownership" and "management". When Hilton bought Diamond, what they bought was the management operations and any unsold inventory that Diamond had title to.

In almost all cases, ownership of the property lies with people who bought deeds for the properties, or with a trust that holds the deeds and that has fiduciary duty to the members of the trust. So, with all resorts ownership will continue as is. Hilton taking over Diamond does not change a single deed. The Diamond USA trust will own whatever it now owns, though the name of the trust may change. People who own deeds outside of a trust will continue to own what they own and will have all of the reservation rights for that deed.

Nicely put. I've been trying to come up with this explanation every time I see someone say "Hilton/Diamond owns ..........".

Your other explanation:

That also brings up another point Just because Hilton has acquired Diamond and has created HGVMax, that does not mean that members of HGVMax have unfettered access to any Diamond property. HGVMax member reservations are limited to the total number of units (or points) that are attached to HGVMax. So, for example, if HGVMax has 100 weeks at Point at Poipu (or the points equivalent in the Hawaii trust), reservations made by HGVMax members cannot exceed those 100 weeks.

That is a point that is conveniently ignored on the sales floor, where they lead people to think that there is unlimited availability at any of the resorts. Yes, you can reserve at any resort, but the total number of reservations at any resort is limited by the inventory attached to HGVMax.

Again, right on point.

 

[goaliedave]

Most Diamond owners won't upgrade to Hilton. They can't ever take away your right to book the resorts in your collection, whether they rebrand them or not.

 

[GT75]

In addition, as Hilton acquires new properties they will only be available in Max.

That is not from the HGV documentation. To me, there isn’t currently any HGVMax only properties. There are HVC (formerly known as DRI), HGVC and HC (Hilton Club). HGVMax only allow crossbooking between HGVC and HVC. So, I believe if new properties are added, it will be added to one of the 3.

 

[cmcnab371]

FYI...The Hilton guy said...US COLLECTION..Has more value then the other's...whatever that means...I don't think Hilton realized that Diamond owners weren't going to just roll over...40K worth of timeshare should allow me to travel the way I want

Just came from our second owners update I. Two weeks. They basically told us our trust means nothing and we go back to what we owned before the trust and points. So we can always go to cypress point for us in Florida. Which makes me mad because every where we went in the trust they called us owners. I guess not thank you Hilton. Not!
So we denied HGV max and honestly dont
Know how diamond owners don’t have a lawsuit the trust means nothing now Thoughts?

 

[SmithOp]

Just came from our second owners update I. Two weeks. They basically told us our trust means nothing and we go back to what we owned before the trust and points. So we can always go to cypress point for us in Florida. Which makes me mad because every where we went in the trust they called us owners. I guess not thank you Hilton. Not!
So we denied HGV max and honestly dont
Know how diamond owners don’t have a lawsuit the trust means nothing now Thoughts?

What location did you take the update? The former DRI sales people are now Hilton but their sales spiel hasn't changed.

This sounds like sales exaggeration and outright lies to scare you into buying something new (HGV Max). It's a common timeshare sales tactic to disparage whatever you own and offer to fix it with a new purchase. They can't change the trust, and are still selling trust points, using it won't change.

Welcome to TUG!

 

[pedro47]

This is one huge mess.

 

[geist1223]

If you bought into a Collection from the Developer (DRI) you still have all your entitlements to that Collection and the other DRI Collections. If you had resell DRI then just like under DRI you only have access to that Collection. If you had Club Select/Club Combination and the Timeshare you nominated at the time of purchase of DRI is still on the approved List you can still trade it for DRI Points. If you had Club Select/Club Combination and you buy into MAX you lose this option. If your Status was elevated because of Club Select/Club Combination and you buy into MAX you lose this.

Do not believe anything a Sales Person tells you. They lie and cheat to get a Sale. If they do not make sells they do not make any money. Their as* is covered by the language in the Contract that says only the promises etc contained in the Written Contract are valid. And Management does not care. Because the Corporation needs sells.

 

[T_R_Oglodyte]

If you had Club Select/Club Combination and you buy into MAX you lose this option. If your Status was elevated because of Club Select/Club Combination and you buy into MAX you lose this.

Not necessarily true. This might be the case if you merge accounts.

In Diamond we are Gold, and we attained Gold status using Club Select. We made a small MAX purchase, and in the system this shows as two accounts - a MAX account and a Diamond account. The Diamond is account is exactly the same as before.

 

[pedro47]

Not necessarily true. This might be the case if you merge accounts.

In Diamond we are Gold, and we attained Gold status using Club Select. We made a small MAX purchase, and in the system this shows as two accounts - a MAX account and a Diamond account. The Diamond is account is exactly the same as before.

This is still a mess.