Depressing time coming up...

[SpikeMauler]

Not depressing but disappointing: We booked a week on Maui with points, under the expiring points schedule, for this spring. Then I lost my job. I just got a new job but lack the vacation to use the points trip this year. So we will cancel the trip and reclaim the points. We won't have enough points to go to the same resort next year.

We decided to just be happy that I was able to get a new job in this market, and will keep saving those points until we have enough points and vacation time to go in the future. It is not the worst thing that can happen, just a blip in the radar of life.

Great attitude! Good luck with your new job. I'm kinda in the same boat. My wife's company just decreased her salary by 30% and she's worried about being laid off in 09. Whatever happens,happens. We'll get by.

 

[JudyS]

......
"Dead children in Gaza"? "Being diagnosed with cancer"? You think maybe these reply's are a little over the top?Are these the first things you thought of after reading a post about points?"

Oh, these comments are very much warranted and more. When you see what is happening to everyday people in this world, you start to get some perspective on how good you have it in life and what is really important. Marriott points: fun but not important.

Anyone who is bothered when someone says they're "depressed" over MRP devaluations probably shouldn't go look at the posts at www.Flyertalk.com. People over there get "depressed" when they have to travel business class rather than first class!

While I think we should all "count our blessings" that we even are able to consider such things as vacations in the first place, I don't think there is anything wrong with someone describing themselves as "depressed' over a points devaluation. As others have said here, this is a timeshare forum, so in the context of discussions here, timeshares definitely matter.

I also think this thread has some comments that are overly political.

If one takes a moment to think about it, the price of Marriott hotel rooms has gone up appreciably over the past five years since the last depreciation of Marriott Rewards points. That means that the value of those points has gotten you the same room it got five years ago when the price for that room was much lower......

True, but as others have noted here, the value of Marriott timeshare accommodations has gone up as quickly as the cost of Marriott hotel stays. (And if anything, the MFs for Marriott timeshares has risen at an even faster rate than has Marriott hotel rates.) Therefore, the relative value of Marriott hotels stays, compared to Marriott timeshares, has stayed the same, and there is no reason why Marriott should be giving fewer hotel nights for the same timeshare stay.

 

[m61376]

Anyone who is bothered when someone says they're "depressed" over MRP devaluations probably shouldn't go look at the posts at www.Flyertalk.com. People over there get "depressed" when they have to travel business class rather than first class!

While I think we should all "count our blessings" that we even are able to consider such things as vacations in the first place, I don't think there is anything wrong with someone describing themselves as "depressed' over a points devaluation. As others have said here, this is a timeshare forum, so in the context of discussions here, timeshares definitely matter.

I also think this thread has some comments that are overly political.

I couldn't agree with you more, especially about some of the comments being overly political and, in my opinion, inappropriate.

True, but as others have noted here, the value of Marriott timeshare accommodations has gone up as quickly as the cost of Marriott hotel stays. (And if anything, the MFs for Marriott timeshares has risen at an even faster rate than has Marriott hotel rates.) Therefore, the relative value of Marriott hotels stays, compared to Marriott timeshares, has stayed the same, and there is no reason why Marriott should be giving fewer hotel nights for the same timeshare stay.

The problem, as I see it anyway, is that Marriott has no system to differentiate between the valuation of timeshare earned points and points earned for other stays. There are 3 main ways of earning points (maybe more, but the 3 major ones I am aware of): staying in a Marriott hotel, using the Marriott rewards cc, and turning in a timeshare week. Over time, hotel prices have appreciated and thus anyone staying in a Marriott hotel will receive more points for their stay. If Marriott didn't adjust the number of points required for a stay, then fewer paid stays would be necessary for a bonus points paid stay over time, which would not be good or even fair to the company.

Similarly, everything has appreciated. We spend more in 2009 than we did in 1999, for example; everything costs more today, so our credit card bills- and those points racked up if you have a Marriott Visa- are ever increasing. Marriott can't afford to give away a larger percentage of their rooms because more and more customers are accumulating higher point values more easily.

Unfortunately, timeshare owners fall into the last and least important category in the scheme of things. In the Marriott system it is the only place where point valuations are fixed despite appreciation and rising costs. Our weeks cost us more to purchase and to maintain, our weeks are worth more to Marriott when trading in (since they can get higher rental fees), but the point valuation was fixed at the time of pre-construction pricing and, moreover, there is little differentiation between resorts despite some huge pricing differences (for ex., how many points does a Plat. MMC week trade for versus one of the new Marco weeks or the new Maui weeks, which are some of the highest priced selling weeks?).

The only "fair" way to deal with the inequity is to either appreciate the number of points given for a timeshare trade over time, adjusted annually by perhaps the rate of increase of MF's, which would likely be a very difficult proposition because it would impact the governing documents of different resorts and have to comply with the legal restrictions in many different localities or to create a travel package for timeshare point exchanges only. I believe Marriott already segregates points earned in other ways from points earned from trading (isn't there already something in place from using points earned from trading in one's timeshare from being used to book a timeshare room elsewhere, or something along those lines?). While creating a special travel package would be equitable to both parties, I am sure it would be met with complaints because likely owners would have to be restricted to using only points accrued trading for weeks and not any supplemental points accrued elsewhere.

When you think about it that way, Marriott really is in a bit of an untenable situation. As Dave has pointed out, it must devalue points over time not to "give away the store," so to speak. When the trading for points model was designed there were no provisions to prevent future devaluations and now, fast forward 10 or 15 years, it is a problem Marriott needs to address. In my opinion, if they want to maintain it as a prominent feature of their timeshare sales program, they will make some adjustments (perhaps an across the board bonus offer of 25% additional points if you trade in your week as a customer accommodation/incentive type thing) or it will become an incidental but not prominent feature of their sales program. If and when they change to an internal trading program and if they restrict future resale buyers from enjoying the same privileges as current owners, then salespeople can use that as a sales tool; however, I think they will lose a big part of their sales pitch. Many educated buyers (and I mean educated in terms of knowledge of the resale market and price differentials, etc.) choose to buy directly because of the tantalizing concept of world class trips to places and in styles that they otherwise could not afford and/or would choose not to spend the money on. I think that is an important factor in their sales pitch and I do think Marriott is going to have to figure out a way to retain that option because it is an important part of developer sales. Once the economy turns around they are once again going to want to develop other properties and I think Marriott will have to address this issue.

 

[lovearuba]

points for your week

Hi
I've had my timeshare for about 6 years and have traded it for points once. Unless the points provided are increased I will never do it again. I'm paying 1600 in maintenance for a 2 bedroom and there is no way Marriott is getting the week for 100,000 points.

 

[thinze3]

... The only "fair" way to deal with the inequity is to either appreciate the number of points given for a timeshare trade over time, adjusted annually by perhaps the rate of increase of MF's, which would likely be a very difficult proposition because it would impact the governing documents of different resorts and have to comply with the legal restrictions in many different localities or to create a travel package for timeshare point exchanges only. I believe Marriott already segregates points earned in other ways from points earned from trading (isn't there already something in place from using points earned from trading in one's timeshare from being used to book a timeshare room elsewhere, or something along those lines?). While creating a special travel package would be equitable to both parties, I am sure it would be met with complaints because likely owners would have to be restricted to using only points accrued trading for weeks and not any supplemental points accrued elsewhere...

Marriott could offer 25-40% more annual MR points on new timeshare purchases, and then turn around and offer current owners at the same resorts the ability to "upgrade" to that new points level for a price. Marriott could continue to tout the "world class" trips at sales presentations, get additional funds upfront from current owners who convert, and then get the additional deposits they need for rental purposes.

This is not unprecedented for Marriott.

 

[m61376]

Marriott could offer 25-40% more annual MR points on new timeshare purchases, and then turn around and offer current owners at the same resorts the ability to "upgrade" to that new points level for a price. Marriott could continue to tout the "world class" trips at sales presentations, get additional funds upfront from current owners who convert, and then get the additional deposits they need for rental purposes.

This is not unprecedented for Marriott.

Good point; hopefully the brain trust at Marriott will consider this as a more equitable solution. The only problem I see with that suggestion is whether current owners will be angered that they are trading in the same value week and paying the same MF's, yet have to pay yet more $$'s to Marriott to get a fair value in points trade-in.

 

[Beverley]

We decided to just be happy that I was able to get a new job in this market, and will keep saving those points until we have enough points and vacation time to go in the future. It is not the worst thing that can happen, just a blip in the radar of life.

Absolutely correct. Good perspective.

Beverley

 

[Lawlar]

I Am With You

With the new point MRP structure occurring next week, am I the ONLY TUGGER who is feeling quite depressed about the whole situation? ... Then it just dawned on us how pathetic the situation was - in many ways.

One thing for sure, we likely will no longer recommend another Marriott TS for friends and family as we have been doing the past three so years (MAYBE re-sale in the most extreme cases).

I am with you completely. [So are my 750,000 depreciating MR points.]

I have talked my step-daughter into setting up a credit card that contributes cash each time it is used to a 529 college fund for our grandkid. I plan on doing the same.

Marriott's operation keeps looking more like a ponzi scheme to me.

 

[janapur]

I am with you completely. [So are my 750,000 depreciating MR points.]

I have talked my step-daughter into setting up a credit card that contributes cash each time it is used to a 529 college fund for our grandkid. I plan on doing the same.

Marriott's operation keeps looking more like a ponzi scheme to me.

Could you please share which cc company contributes to the 529 fund? Thanks, Jana

 

[JimIg23]

Could you please share which cc company contributes to the 529 fund? Thanks, Jana

http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/Banking/CreditCardSmarts/CreditCardsThatHelpYouSave.aspx

there are several articles on the web about them.

 

[jhm40cu]

It's interesting to note that, about a year ago, Hilton did increase the number of points it gives timeshare owners who trade their weeks for HHonors points. Hilton also allows resale buyers who buy from private parties to trade their weeks for points. So there is a precedent in the timeshare industry for treating timeshare owners a bit better than what Marriott has been doing lately.

Wow, I didn't know about this. Maybe this is the reason why it is so difficult to find a bargain on HGVC properties at eBay.

 

[Lawlar]

Check With Your State

Could you please share which cc company contributes to the 529 fund? Thanks, Jana

I believe each state may be different. I set up an account with the California Plan and they have sent me brochures from time to time promoting their credit card plan. By the way, I started the plan about 3 years ago - putting about $125 a month into it - and the account balance is at $6,000, despite the crash (the boy is 8 years old).

I've decided that the best thing I can do before I leave this planet is provide a good college education to one person. My favorite grandkid wins that prize. My grandmother set up a Trust for me when she passed away and it paid for my college and law school education. It gave me some great opportunities that I wouldn't have had without that gift. Now I want to pass it on to someone else.

Here is the Website for the California Plan: http://www.scholarshare.com/

[I don't see the credit card info on their site but I will try and track it down.]

 

[Latravel]

Wow, Lawlar.