Depositing pts in RCI - no longer a value proposition

[soon2b6]

I'm sure I'm late to this "ball", but, was attempting to take remaining Wyndham pts & deposit them in RCI for weeks. Was told "no can do any longer" they only go in as pts.

OK, nobody likes change, but thought I'd give their new approach a whirl. How absolutely disappointing - unless I'm missing something.

I even did a couple searches for off-peak season in Orlando area & was looking at 144-224,000. I used to pick these up for about 72,000 pts.

Unless I've missed a key piece it appears it may be time to dump the Wydham stuff & just stay with my weeks in RCI. Apparently the "value" is gone.

Am I reading this right?

Thanks

 

[rrlongwell]

I'm sure I'm late to this "ball", but, was attempting to take remaining Wyndham pts & deposit them in RCI for weeks. Was told "no can do any longer" they only go in as pts.

OK, nobody likes change, but thought I'd give their new approach a whirl. How absolutely disappointing - unless I'm missing something.

I even did a couple searches for off-peak season in Orlando area & was looking at 144-224,000. I used to pick these up for about 72,000 pts.

Unless I've missed a key piece it appears it may be time to dump the Wydham stuff & just stay with my weeks in RCI. Apparently the "value" is gone.

Am I reading this right?

Thanks

Depends on your indivual status, the following is a random date I checked in Florida for a February date. It is for Bonnett Creek. If the account is a re-sale week(s) and the person only wants one to three weeks non-peak periods, then this may very well be true. To test the theory, one might go to their RCI Points Account and see what RCI will rent the same or similar week for.

02/03/2012 7 nights 2 Bedroom Deluxe 189,000 Regular Points 63,000 with VIP Platinum Discount. This works out to about $51.30 per night at the discounted rate using $5.70 dollars per thousand at the conversion to dollars rate. If regualar points are used, this works out to about $153.99 per night.

 

[ronparise]

Its been about a year since wyndham owners lost the unfair advantage they had trading into RCI.

Now you can deposit your points (minimum deposit 27000 points in increments of 1000)
You use those points in rci according to this schedule
There are no discounts as you approach a check in date

If you dump your Wyndham stuff in favor of weeks that you can deposit to RCI, be aware that RCI also changed their system to a "points" based system where your weeks and the weeks you might exchange for are assigned "trading power units" TPU's

I came to the party after these changes were made so I dont know how good the good old days were...but the conclusion I came to is: with few exceptions, the best use of Wyndham points is within the Wyndham system. Depositing ito RCI is for a special trip to a place where there is no Wyndham property, or if you find yourself in a 'use it or lose' it situation at the end of the year

 

[Ridewithme38]

Wyndham points still has a pretty major advantage when it comes to high value RCI weeks, the TPU system they are currently using isn't set by location size, you can see 1br places from 8tpu to 60tpu, but with the wyndham system, those 1br's i'd pay 60tpu for, you'll get for only 143,000 points...Like the Manhattan Club and Disney resorts, but beyond those two, i can't think of any other advantages

 

[rrlongwell]

[QUOTE ... the best use of Wyndham points is within the Wyndham system. Depositing ito RCI is for a special trip to a place where there is no Wyndham property, or if you find yourself in a 'use it or lose' it situation at the end of the year[/QUOTE]

I agree. The point chart that was posted is a good example of one method of point inflation. For example, my two converted weeks in the high season for Myrtle Beach, Westwinds is 154,000 (I can ARP these weeks). Under the chart, it is only worth part of a week in the High Season through RCI. The chart shows 184,000 for a high season week. This does not even consider the RCI fees for doing the change from Wynhdam Points to Wynhdam/RCI through its portal.

P.S. I just checked what it would cost me for a quite week at Westwinds through the Wyndham Vacation Resorts system.

01/13/2012 7 2 Bedroom Deluxe 77,000 regular points 38,500 VIP Platinum points. Plantium discount points times 5.70 per thousand comes to $219.45 not using the discount it would be $438.90.

Under the Wyndham RCI chart, going through RCI with my points into a 2 bedroom would be 109,000 points. ($621.30 would be my cost equilvant using $5.70 dollars per thousand)

Update: Checked RCI Extra Vacations:

Sands Ocean Club, Myrtle Beach:

2 Bedrooms 6 (6) Full Sat 04-Feb-2012 Sat 11-Feb-2012 USD 305.99

Ocean Blvd through RCI Portal:

2 Bedrooms 7 140,000 points Feb 4 to Feb 11, 2012. ($798 would be my cost equilvant using $5.70 dollars per thousand) plus the RCI fees.

Smokey Mountains has the following available for 28,000 points (includes VIP Discounts) 01/13/2012 7 2 Bedroom Lockoff.

From this very limited check, it appears RCI Extra Vacations pricing is designed to undercut the costs of non-VIP renters of timeshares and all but eliminate the profit from a VIP member renting them.

 

[soon2b6]

As for status in Wyndham, we are not VIP or Platinum. I think we have 252,000 points annually. We also don't have a RCI points account because all our non-Wyndham ownerships are fixed weeks, therefore we only have a weeks account w/ RCI.

I am aware of the change that RCI made regarding our fixed weeks being assigned a specific points value.

And, as for those Wyndham owners who had an "unfair" advantage; I guess I prefer to refer to it as a value proposition as opposed to being unfair. Hence, it appears the "value" proposition is not there for us any longer.

For the past 8-10 years the value has been in depositing our pts in RCI as opposed to using them through Wyndham. It appears those days are gone, as is the previous value.

I will need to do more research regarding the rental route. From what I've been seeing at this stage it appears I may be better off dumping Wyndham & renting as needed.

As you've probably guessed, our loyalty is not to any specific program. It's all about value & where we get the best ROI. It was Wyndham & deposits into RCI. Not any more!

Anybody want to buy some Wyndham pts?

 

[ronparise]

Anybody want to buy some Wyndham pts?

What do you have?? send me a PM

Its not just Wyndham, When RCI went to their TPU system, I understand that there were lots of folks that found that their "tiger traders" weren't so fierce anymore. There has been a lot of "portfolio adjustment" since then

By the way, Ride has it right..there is still value to be found exchanging wyndham points in RCI.... you just have to dig for it

 

[rrlongwell]

[QUOTE/QUOTE]

Make some postings in the Marketplace. I do not remember exact figures, However, I think it was two years paid maintance fees, some money in addition paid to the seller, etc. paid at closing. It went very, very, fast. By the way, I am not a buyer.

 

[paxsarah]

By the way, Ride has it right..there is still value to be found exchanging wyndham points in RCI.... you just have to dig for it

The way I see it (and I also came along after the changes, so I didn't experience the previous bargains in RCI) is that while there is still value to be found, there is nothing that comes cheap. If the high-cost trades (e.g. DVC, Manhattan Club) are of little interest to you, then there is little benefit to exchanging Wyndham in RCI.

 

[jjmanthei05]

I agree. The point chart that was posted is a good example of one method of point inflation...

This whole "point inflation" thing has to stop. There is no way that the 28k for prime 2 bedroom weeks was going to last. For example earlier this year we stayed for 2 weeks in a 2 bedroom at palm aire in prime season. So what would have cost me 364,000 points in Wyndham cost me 2-28k deposits. There is no way that could last. It's not point inflation, its equalizing out the system. What we were getting before was close to legalized theft. Don't get me wrong, I loved/love those because we have a 2 bedroom for new years week at Great smokies lodge (224k for a 70k deposit) and a 3 bedroom at Glacier canyon in February (240k for 28k deposit) but you can't expect to continue to get 90+% discounts. Well unless your VIP Platinum lol.

Jason

 

[Twinkstarr]

Wyndham points still has a pretty major advantage when it comes to high value RCI weeks, the TPU system they are currently using isn't set by location size, you can see 1br places from 8tpu to 60tpu, but with the wyndham system, those 1br's i'd pay 60tpu for, you'll get for only 143,000 points...Like the Manhattan Club and Disney resorts, but beyond those two, i can't think of any other advantages

There are more than just DVC & MC, depends on where and when you want to go.

224k is not bad for a 2br summer week in HHI or a ski season unit, if you are looking at gold/silver rated resorts.

I've got a 2br ski resort(yes they do have snow!) for this weekend, come out way ahead using my Wynhdam points compared to renting from resort or even renting from VRBO.

 

[chriskre]

And if you want to go to DVC in the off season there are some bargains using the crossover grid like 74K for either a studio or 1 bedroom. Not a bad return on MF's invested, especially since RCI jacked up the TPU's for DVC. :annoyed:

 

[vckempson]

And if you want to go to DVC in the off season there are some bargains using the crossover grid like 74K for either a studio or 1 bedroom. Not a bad return on MF's invested, especially since RCI jacked up the TPU's for DVC. :annoyed:

How exactly are the Prime, High, Value, and Quiet designations determined for Wyndham to RCI exchanges ? RCI only has Red, White and Blue.

 

[siesta]

There is still great vaue to be had. Case and point: Disney summer TPUs are through the roof.

If you are a bottom barrell exchanger, you are right... The value has been diminished. But if you are going during prime time and/or to prime places, there is still much value to be had.

 

[rrlongwell]

... This whole "point inflation" thing has to stop ...

Even Wynhdam in their on line material indicates that the cost per point goes up over time (See Below).

As I understand it, the effects of "Point Inflation" actions by Wynhdam have hit the re-sale buyer particular hard over the years. The VIP program has the effect of limiting some of the impact of this for those that have that status.

1. Some of biggest ones are the elimination of re-sale owners to have VIP status and associated discounts.

2. The increasing RCI Fees.

3. Guest Pass charges.

4. Housekeeping charges.

5. Transaction charges.

6. Trading Power losses through RCI Exchanges.

7. Rising Maintance fees (drives the on-going cost per point up).

8. The ability of every owner to sell or transfer his or her points to another owner.

I am sure the more knowable owners could add more.

"By owning with CLUB WYNDHAM®, you can lock in today’s vacation prices for all of your future vacations ...

Average Hotel Room Night (2007) price: $150
Inflation Rate: 3%
Future Vacations: 25 Years
Family of four renting two rooms: $84,220.90

Average Timeshare Purchase Price: $16,000
Annual Maintenance Fees: $500
Inflation Rate On Fees: 3%
Future Vacations: 25 Years
Family of four-six staying in a two-bedroom condominium: $39,900"

The above does not take into account the cheap rentals available through RCI directly for a 2 bedroom (or other sizes for that matter). This would impact Wyndham's estimate of $150 dollars per night for a hotel room.

 

[tschwa2]

Even Wynhdam in their on line material indicates that the cost per point goes up over time (See Below).


"By owning with CLUB WYNDHAM®, you can lock in today’s vacation prices for all of your future vacations ...

Average Hotel Room Night (2007) price: $150
Inflation Rate: 3%
Future Vacations: 25 Years
Family of four renting two rooms: $84,220.90

Average Timeshare Purchase Price: $16,000
Annual Maintenance Fees: $500
Inflation Rate On Fees: 3%
Future Vacations: 25 Years
Family of four-six staying in a two-bedroom condominium: $39,900"

The above does not take into account the cheap rentals available through RCI directly for a 2 bedroom (or other sizes for that matter). This would impact Wyndham's estimate of $150 dollars per night for a hotel room.

It also doesn't take into account that a $16000 and a $500 MF is not going to get enough points to get a family of 4-6 into a 2 br unit during vacation time and the places that it might usually have hotel room/vacation rentals much lower too. I can get nice ocean front hotels in Myrtle beach for under $50 per night in the winter but why would I want to lock $39,000+ for one week of off off season vacation for a family of 4-6 or 2-3 nights of prime time per year.

 

[rrlongwell]

... why would I want to lock $39,000+ for one week of off off season vacation for a family of 4-6 or 2-3 nights of prime time per year.

I do not know. If I were starting out with no Wynhdam Properties, I would probably look at the rental market until and if the Rental Market goes up significantly.

 

[lprstn]

Well I was using my points during the good old days. But even now, after going to other programs, Wyndham still gives me more bang for my buck.

I do like some of the flexibility and the offerings I've been able to book with the new program. But I don't like not being able to use those slick 28K points deposits. I figure we have tipped them off on how we were slipping through the cracks booking with RCI.

 

[ronparise]

How exactly are the Prime, High, Value, and Quiet designations determined for Wyndham to RCI exchanges ? RCI only has Red, White and Blue.

I looked at trading back into the Wyndham system and it seems the Prime, High, Value, and Quiet designations are as they are in the Wyndham point grids for the specific resorts. What the do when you trade for non Wyndham resorts I dont know. Perhaps they look to the points grid for a nearby Wyndham property

 

[Cheryl20772]

I do like some of the flexibility and the offerings I've been able to book with the new program. But I don't like not being able to use those slick 28K points deposits. I figure we have tipped them off on how we were slipping through the cracks booking with RCI.

I don't think we tipped them off to anything. They knew all about using 28K points and the sales staff used that to try and sell developer points. I've sat through at least 5 different "updates" over the years that regaled me on how to stretch my points by using the RCI 28K. Now they are switched over to telling people to stretch their points by using a fictitious "safehouse" to guarantee the discount and upgrade for VIP's who initially book using ARP. Didn't you wonder what the next greatest secret thing would be? Only the 28K was real, and this safehouse thing is imaginary.

 

[learnalot]

I don't think we tipped them off to anything. They knew all about using 28K points and the sales staff used that to try and sell developer points. I've sat through at least 5 different "updates" over the years that regaled me on how to stretch my points by using the RCI 28K. Now they are switched over to telling people to stretch their points by using a fictitious "safehouse" to guarantee the discount and upgrade for VIP's who initially book using ARP. Didn't you wonder what the next greatest secret thing would be? Only the 28K was real, and this safehouse thing is imaginary.

Cheryl,

Regarding the 28k deposits (or anything sales pitches), I just wanted to point out that the heavy pitching and coaching by the sales staff is done by sales for the sake of making sales. Not everything that may be in the best interests of the sales staff will necessarily also be in the best interests of corporate - which is not necessarily concerned with our best interests as owners. I think these gaps have only grown wider as Wyndham (and affiliate RCI) have delved more and more deeply into rentals.

 

[Cheryl20772]

Cheryl,

Regarding the 28k deposits (or anything sales pitches), I just wanted to point out that the heavy pitching and coaching by the sales staff is done by sales for the sake of making sales. Not everything that may be in the best interests of the sales staff will necessarily also be in the best interests of corporate - which is not necessarily concerned with our best interests as owners. I think these gaps have only grown wider as Wyndham (and affiliate RCI) have delved more and more deeply into rentals.

I agree, but still I don't think anyone should delude themselves to thinking that corporate knew nothing about using 28K until the forum discussion tipped them off. To say that would be to say that corporate is innocent of the faults of the sales staff. I believe that corporate knows very well what goes on there and tacitly encourages it.

 

[learnalot]

I agree, but still I don't think anyone should delude themselves to thinking that corporate knew nothing about using 28K until the forum discussion tipped them off. To say that would be to say that corporate is innocent of the faults of the sales staff. I believe that corporate knows very well what goes on there and tacitly encourages it.

Cheryl,

I am not making any excuses for Corporate. I was just trying to point out the observable relationship between their foray into the rental market and the demise of the 28k deposit. Of course corporate knew there were 28k deposits - it was in the directory - but the way they were being used and implemented may have gotten a closer look as they started doing rentals for double dipping profit.

 

[jjmanthei05]

I agree, but still I don't think anyone should delude themselves to thinking that corporate knew nothing about using 28K until the forum discussion tipped them off. To say that would be to say that corporate is innocent of the faults of the sales staff. I believe that corporate knows very well what goes on there and tacitly encourages it.

Of course they do and when the are bringing in an average of $1,500 for every sales presentation they do, why would they want to change what sales is doing unless they were forced to. I would say most Wyndham owners have no clue about their ownership. They use their points and if they want more they will wait for Wyndham to have a "deal". They either don't know what resales are going for or they have been scared away from them by sales telling horror stories.



Jason

 

[isilwath]

Ok, I have a question.

I have bought 231,000 re-sale points at Wyndham's Kona resort. I am currently waiting for closing and the transfer to complete, but I want to use my points to greatest advantage.

I want to use those points to trade into Wyndham's La Belle Maison in New Orleans. We need a 2-bedroom unit. Under Wyndham's points chart, the week we want is High season and would cost 203,000 of our 231,000 points, but only if it's not a lock off or a Presidential Unit. If we want either of those, the cost goes up to 266,000.

Wyndham's RCI portal lists a 2-bedroom exchange as costing 224,000 points for Prime season and 184,000 points for High (I do not know as of yet if the week we want rates as High or Prime with RCI).

Say I want the option of the lock off or the Presidential Unit. If I deposit the 224,000/184,000 points into RCI will those units be available to me (subject to availability, of course) because as far as RCI is concerned a 2-bedroom is a 2-bedroom or will I still be restricted to only non-lock off, non-Presidential Units?

Any thoughts?

Thanks.

Theresa