DC also in Europe?

[pafort]

Hi all,
Following a second meeting with vendors to MEM (LLucmayor, Balearic Inslands) and MVF (Disneyland Paris), it seems that even in Europe in 2012 to pass the points system like DC ...
In April (?) May (?) Or June (?) Sales staff will begin training on a new system

Paolo

 

[MALC9990]

Hi all,
Following a second meeting with vendors to MEM (LLucmayor, Balearic Inslands) and MVF (Disneyland Paris), it seems that even in Europe in 2012 to pass the points system like DC ...
In April (?) May (?) Or June (?) Sales staff will begin training on a new system

Paolo

I really hope they do not set up a separate points system for Europe. If that happens then there will be no internal exchange system worth having in Europe. It MUST be part of the DC to allow owners who enrol their weeks to have a decent internal exchange system. Also for new buyers of points there needs to be a reasonable inventory for them to use points for stays.

Placing the unsold inventory in Europe in the DC Trust would be sensible and allowing European weeks owners to enrol if they wish would be a good move.

However the RTU status of the resorts in Europe might be a complication that makes the inclusion in the DC difficult to do.

The best business decision would be to amalgamate the DC points system and Asia Pacific points system, place all the MVCIAP inventory into the DC Trust and align the points values of DC and AP. At the same time include the EU resorts into the system and have a single global points system and a single global internal exchange system.

 

[bazzap]

I really hope they do not set up a separate points system for Europe. If that happens then there will be no internal exchange system worth having in Europe. It MUST be part of the DC to allow owners who enrol their weeks to have a decent internal exchange system. Also for new buyers of points there needs to be a reasonable inventory for them to use points for stays.

Placing the unsold inventory in Europe in the DC Trust would be sensible and allowing European weeks owners to enrol if they wish would be a good move.

However the RTU status of the resorts in Europe might be a complication that makes the inclusion in the DC difficult to do.

The best business decision would be to amalgamate the DC points system and Asia Pacific points system, place all the MVCIAP inventory into the DC Trust and align the points values of DC and AP. At the same time include the EU resorts into the system and have a single global points system and a single global internal exchange system.

Now if only we could read and hear these words from a Marriott Executive!
How about a nomination as independent adviser to the new Marriott Vacation Club Global Points Program?

 

[pefs65]

I agree. It would be terrific if we all could use our points for US,Europe, and Asia destinations!

 

[Mahou]

A version of DC for europe

I heard that the launch date is the first week of June. Developer weeks only, no resales allowed into the scheme
Lets see what happens ................

 

[FractionalTraveler]

That sounds exciting. Hope the USA enrolled owners can eventually participate as well.

Keep us posted!

 

[MALC9990]

That sounds exciting. Hope the USA enrolled owners can eventually participate as well.

Keep us posted!

So it now all depends on how clear sighted the MVCI execs are on this. As I already said in this thread earlier, a separate points system for Europe will really not cut it.

We already have two points systems with different prices and different enrollment prices and approaches. At least the Asia Pacific points system and enrollment is transparent. Exchange a week for points and you get the same number of points that are required to reserve your week. NO SKIM THERE. No two buckets either - an Asia Pac point is a point wherever it comes from.

What MVCI needs is a single global points system that treats all owners alike, offers a simple way for weeks owners to exchange a week for points and use those points against the whole inventory base. Do that and I'll enroll all my weeks and exchange them for points every year.

So what might us European owners expect?

Well if it is a simple extension of the DC system to cover the European resorts and they perpetuate what seems to be pretty much a mess to Europe and hit us with the skim and the two buckets of inventory then all I can say is that the MVCI Execs seem to have learned nothing in the last 2 years. The sign of good management is one that learns from its errors and makes changes to improve the business.

Here are some of the issues that I can see.

1. There are only 4 resorts in Europe. 2 are basically sold out. The unsold inventory is very limited when compared to the USA. So, should they perpetuate the flawed DC system and not learn from their errors, then I cannot see any existing owner buying points in Europe. I can see new buyers being bamboozled by sales people just as they are for weeks now and I was when I bought retail but the same issues will apply as do in the DC points system.

2. The resorts in Europe are RTU not deeded weeks so how will that work if the points systems are merged. Will a DC Trust point be the same as a European point which is not backed by deeded property but by RTU weeks?

3. How will the points system handle owners who have weeks in European resorts and also at US resorts - will the system allow them to enroll them all in a single system ?

4. What will the price be? If, as we have seen reported the price is going to be hiked and thus impact European owners from the start - then I for one will start to seriously question whether I want to hand over more cash to MVCI, especially if my resale weeks are excluded.

So here is my forecast.

If a points system is introduced into Europe as is forecast, MVCI Execs will not have learned anything from the mess they introduced into the USA.

It will be a copy of the DC points system but separate.

The way the systems will interact will be through Interval International. Thus to exchange using European points into a USA Marriott resort will still require a week or a weeks worth of points to be deposited with Interval International. This is how it works for the Asia Pacific points system.

There will be a skim.

The price will be hiked.

Resale Weeks - included ? - A big question. If not I will probably not join since there will be nothing in it for me - I will still have to use II to exchange for the USA resorts. There is little attraction in a points system just for 4 European resorts, especially if there is a skim and a price hike.

i already use my home resort every year for most of the weeks so what benefit would a points system offer me if it still requires the use of II to exchange to Marriott resorts in the USA.

I've followed the debates here on the DC points system from Day 1 and feel as well briefed on the ins and outs of the system as I could be - considering I have not been a user of the system. If the Marriott Execs have not picked up on those debates here and have not learned the lessons that have been highlighted here then the future for a European points system only covering the 4 resorts will not be a good one.

Now if European owners are allowed to enroll our weeks (including qualifying resale weeks) even if there is a skim but for the current enrollment fees, into the DC system then I would consider enrolling my weeks. This would not be an ideal situation but better than a separate system.

The ideal solution would be the creation of a single global points system where points were all equal and where inventory was available to all points.

I guess time will tell and June is not so far away now.

 

[FractionalTraveler]

Thank you. I have learned much from your posting!

 

[Mahou]

Malc, I agree with you 100%

 

[MALC9990]

Malc, I agree with you 100%

Let's hope that the MVCI Execs responsible for Europe see sense and learn from the mistakes made in the USA DC system and do the right thing and deliver a sensible points system that will allow internal exchanges to work across the Marriott system without recourse to II.

However I am not expecting miracles here.

 

[answeeney]

I’ve got a vested interest in the outcome here and so am eagerly awaiting news but, like others, will not be surprised if I am disappointed.

We enrolled our OP week and bought some trust points shortly after the roll out of the DC system. I like the DC system, despite the skim, because it gives us extra flexibility, which has worked well for us so far. If we could enrol our European weeks in a way that gives us equal participation with US owners then we would almost certainly do so. However, if Marriott comes up with a separate European system then they are going to have to widen the options beyond the four existing resorts to make it interesting. We rarely use our Club Son Antem week (the only timeshare I regret buying, as I am not a golfer) and so the option to swap it for something we would prefer is obviously attractive. However, we take our main holidays in the US so if any new system doesn’t give us direct access to US properties then that is a major downside for us and almost certainly a deal-breaker.

Marriott might try to widen the choice in some other way by, say, including some resort hotel or cruise options but if it is on the usual terms of swapping a week in a two bedroom apartment for three nights in a hotel room or one night at sea then that would also make the new system dead in the water. Now, if they were to combine the launch of a European DC with the acquisition of a new resort in, say, the Canaries that would get me interested. For a European, the accessibility and all year round good weather makes the Canaries a useful option to have, especially for early or late season breaks. However, the downside is that most of the timeshares there are dumps… but one that was upgraded to Marriott standards would be a different matter.

 

[MALC9990]

I’ve got a vested interest in the outcome here and so am eagerly awaiting news but, like others, will not be surprised if I am disappointed.

We enrolled our OP week and bought some trust points shortly after the roll out of the DC system. I like the DC system, despite the skim, because it gives us extra flexibility, which has worked well for us so far. If we could enrol our European weeks in a way that gives us equal participation with US owners then we would almost certainly do so. However, if Marriott comes up with a separate European system then they are going to have to widen the options beyond the four existing resorts to make it interesting. We rarely use our Club Son Antem week (the only timeshare I regret buying, as I am not a golfer) and so the option to swap it for something we would prefer is obviously attractive. However, we take our main holidays in the US so if any new system doesn’t give us direct access to US properties then that is a major downside for us and almost certainly a deal-breaker.

Marriott might try to widen the choice in some other ways, by including some resort hotel or cruise options but if it is on the usual terms of swapping a week in a two bedroom apartment for three nights in a hotel room or one night at sea then that would also make the new system dead in the water. Now, if they were to combine the launch of a European DC with the acquisition of a new resort in, say, the Canaries that would get me interested. For a European, the accessibility and all year round good weather makes the Canaries a useful option to have, especially for early or late season breaks. However, the downside is that most of the timeshares there are dumps… but one that was upgraded to Marriott standards would be a different matter.

One of the extras for the use of points that we might see is one that is available to Asia Pacific Points owners. that is to be able to use the points for hotel reservations. It works in the same basic way as using Marriott Reward points to reserve a hotel room, except that you use your Asia Pacific Timeshare points instead. It is not available across all Marriott Hotels, only at a selected set where MVCI Asia pacific have negotiated a deal with the specific hotel.

To make a reservation the AP points owner has to call the AP Service Centre - for me that is in Cork but is also in Singapore. Tell the associate on the line, where and when you want to book and they check availability and if available then they make the reservation. The reservation then appears listed when you look at your upcoming reservations when logged into Marriott.com with your MR number and password. It also works like a paid stay and so earns MR points for any spend in the hotel and elite nights since MVCI AP pay the hotel and deduct the required number of points from the owners MVCI AP points account. One of the resorts available to use MVCIAP points in this way is Marbella Beach Club !!

So perhaps we might see some options at Marriott Hotels across Europe and the Middle East and also Asia as a way of using points.

One other point, would be VERY unhappy if pre-existing resale weeks are not included. Resale weeks were included when the USA DC system was introduced. So - if anyone from MVCI is reading this - I expect my resale weeks to be included in the same way that the resale weeks owned by USA resort owners were included providing they were purchased before the DC roll out date. If they do not do that then in my book they will stand accused of discrimination against European Resort owners and offering better deals to their owners at US resorts.

 

[davsar09]

We are currently in Florida on holiday, went on presentation last week, we were told that the european weeks and Asia weeks will definitely being joing the destination club points at the start of June. They are just working out how the Asia points come across, they are saying a zero will probably be taken off ie instead of 27000 for 1 week it would have a value of 2700. Pretty vague on Asia points as never used apologies.

The European resale weeks would be allowed to join as long as the week was purchased prior to June 2010, again a higher joining fee would apply. Hope that helps.

 

[Worcesterdee]

Will be interested to hear what is offered. We have our Lakeshore reserve week enrolled in DC. I enjoy the flexibility points offers us and this year will be heading to Boston.

If I can also lump my Son Antem weeks into the pot then it would appeal to me, as currently we convert our platinum weeks for Marriott points and use points for hotels and the likes I don't like using II and could never understand why I couldn't exchange internally within Marriott and had to pay a fee to swap my weeks from one Marriott resort to another. For me personally it'd allow me to stop II which would be very welcome.

It's strange that we never hear anything from Marriott about these proposed changes only what I pick up from here.

 

[bazzap]

Yes, the option to use "Europe DC" points for hotel reservations (at a favourable rate), compared to using Marriott Rewards points, would be a good incentive for me to enrol (at a sensible price)
This would certainly address the limitations of there only being 4 resorts here.
Better still to offer an integrated solution, although I fear Marriott may view this as being in the too difficult category.
I will endeavour to be optimistic about this though.

 

[MALC9990]

We are currently in Florida on holiday, went on presentation last week, we were told that the european weeks and Asia weeks will definitely being joing the destination club points at the start of June. They are just working out how the Asia points come across, they are saying a zero will probably be taken off ie instead of 27000 for 1 week it would have a value of 2700. Pretty vague on Asia points as never used apologies.

The European resale weeks would be allowed to join as long as the week was purchased prior to June 2010, again a higher joining fee would apply. Hope that helps.

This, if correct, would be the sort of business decision that has been required since June 2010. What will happen of course is still uncertain. Information given out at presentations is often optimistic and should be treated with caution. However if correct then this would make excellent business sense for Marriott and would be excellent for all owners.

From owners viewpoint, US owners would get access to European and Asian resorts with DC points. Asia Pacific points owners would gain access to the full MVCI resort stable with their points. European weeks owners would be able to enrols their weeks and access the USA resorts thru the DC exchange system.

There will be some issues to be clarified however.

What happens about Asian weeks owners who already enrolled their weeks as part of the AP points system? Will these weeks be automatically enrolled at no further cost.

The Asia Pacific points system has an online reservation system. Will this be enhanced for all points reservations or will we lose it?

Why should the cut off date for European resale weeks be June 2010? Surely the cut off date should be June 2012, that would be fair to European resale weeks owners. Personally I am not affected by a June 2010 cut off date since my resale weeks were all before June 2010.

We are off to St. Kitts for two weeks soon on II exchanges soon so perhaps I might learn something new there.

 

[Worcesterdee]

I have emailed Marriott sales rep to see whether they can shed any light on this. I'll update everyone when I get a reply.

Agree with MALC9990 though, one thing you can never accuse Marriott sales staff of is lacking in over enthusiasm in their presentations.

 

[Worcesterdee]

I have emailed Marriott sales rep to see whether they can shed any light on this. I'll update everyone when I get a reply. .

Apparently they have not been told anything for definite as yet.

 

[MALC9990]

Apparently they have not been told anything for definite as yet.

Well no surprises there. However, last year I attended the annual owners meeting with the advisory board at Son Antem. This followed the autumn meeting of the board with MVCI. The owners meeting was attended by MVCI reps, specifically Rance Ryan. I asked him about the DC points system and the prospects for a points system in Europe and he did say that we should expect something in 2012. So all this does tie in with what was Said then. Nothing specific was mentioned at that time as to what and when in 2012.

I will also contact one of my friends who works in MVCI in Europe and see what I can discover.

 

[Mahou]

from what I can gather from the information I heard, its a product that will kind of bridge the Marriott to Marriott exchanges without using II. However, the points value of the european resorts are somewhat low. Approx 1800 for silver, 3500 for gold and 4200 for plat. From a quick scan on points needed to get into a higher demand US location, we are not looking good.

 

[MALC9990]

from what I can gather from the information I heard, its a product that will kind of bridge the Marriott to Marriott exchanges without using II. However, the points value of the european resorts are somewhat low. Approx 1800 for silver, 3500 for gold and 4200 for plat. From a quick scan on points needed to get into a higher demand US location, we are not looking good.

Feedback I received from inside MVCI sales is very similar -MVCI are looking to join the European weeks owners and resorts into the DC to enable internal exchanges for owners between Europe and North America. The option would be for European owners to enroll their weeks into the DC programme. No info on what happens with sales in Europe - will they continue selling weeks? or move to points as in the USA. However since MVCI are still working on the legal and logistical issues that this raises there is no certainty that this will actually happen.

Also no info as to what steps might be taken to amalgamate the Asia Pacific points system with the DC system.

 

[Mahou]

Lets hope that the folks working on the program read this thread and take on board some, if not all, of the suggestions

I think that the points value being mentioned is a little on the low side. Currently my gold weeks in Marbella will easily exchange in to US plat weeks. But if you compare using points I am way off. Especially HI

 

[Ann in CA]

This week our sales exec at Mountinside confirmed that the European resorts would be joined to the DC in June, and that Asia would follow a bit later. Tried to find out more details, but his focus was on selling us points, so if he knew, he didn't want to spend time on that.

 

[MALC9990]

This week our sales exec at Mountinside confirmed that the European resorts would be joined to the DC in June, and that Asia would follow a bit later. Tried to find out more details, but his focus was on selling us points, so if he knew, he didn't want to spend time on that.

Thanks Ann - thats another brick in the wall of information. I just hope that they don't expect European weeks owners to be willing to pay the increased prices for enrollment. If that is what they plan they better get some ear plugs and stay off the INTERNET because there will be some high volume complaints about being forced to wait two years and then stuck with the increased charges.

My bottom line will be - that I will happily enroll my 5 weeks at the current cost but no way will I be happy to pay the increased costs.

 

[Mahou]

II Inventory

If this does go ahead, how will II inventory be affected ????